Proper macro nutrient balance

bcattoes

I hate when people say a low carb diet is sustainable just because they did it. That is in no way any indication that someone else will do it. I know somone who NEVER eats protein. Doesn't mean I could sustain a no protein diet.

The difference is people know low-carb works, but they say they don't do it because it's 'unsustainable'. Humankind has eaten 'low-carb' for hundreds of thousands of years. How would that be unsustainable or unhealthy? That would go completely against evolution.

And please do enlighten me as to what you get from grains that makes them oh so healthy that I can't get from a salad.

I have no problem with people eating whatever diet they want. Try it out. If it works, great. If it doesn't, try something else.

However, what frustrates me is when people try to dissuade others from even trying by passing their opinion as fact

I've never personally known anyone who sustained a low carb diet, though I know plenty who've done if for periods of time. But you seem to have jumped topic. Someone saying a diet is unsustainable for them isn't the same as trying to dissuade someone else from it. But perhaps you are refering to some personal experience I am unaware of. Either way, unless it's someone you care about why do you care what they say about your diet?

But many people don't just say the diet is unsustainable for them, they state, often without much knowledge of the diet, that it is unsustainable for anybody.

I care what they say because truth is important to me.

I'll turn your last question around and ask it to you, since you've responded several times. Why do you care that we are responding to defend the diet?

Honestly? I'm waiting on a large data run that is taking forever and I'm bored. But you don't have to defend anything to me. I know you can lose weight on low carb. I know whole grains are very healthy for the general public.

lockef

Sorry, again. I'll still have to respectfully disagree unless you can provide some proof that the Harvard recommendations are not evidenced based. I just don't buy into global conspiracy theories.

*puts on tin foil hat*

Nice straw man!

It's not that people make recommendations that are not evidence based. It's usually the conclusions to the data are presented in the wrong way. The data may be correct, but the recommendations (or interpretations to the data) are wrong or incomplete.

In regards to that article you posted earlier. A more accurate interpretation would have been...

- Eating whole grains IN LIEU OF REFINED GRAINS benefits cholesterol and lipoprotein profiles.

and not...

- Eating whole grains benefits cholesterol and lipoprotein profiles.

The latter is a pretty vague statement. Kinda like "smoking filtered cigarettes benefit health".

See the difference?

beernutz

I hate when people say a low carb diet is sustainable just because they did it. That is in no way any indication that someone else will do it. I know somone who NEVER eats protein. Doesn't mean I could sustain a no protein diet.

The difference is people know low-carb works, but they say they don't do it because it's 'unsustainable'. Humankind has eaten 'low-carb' for hundreds of thousands of years. How would that be unsustainable or unhealthy? That would go completely against evolution.

And please do enlighten me as to what you get from grains that makes them oh so healthy that I can't get from a salad.

I have no problem with people eating whatever diet they want. Try it out. If it works, great. If it doesn't, try something else.

However, what frustrates me is when people try to dissuade others from even trying by passing their opinion as fact

I've never personally known anyone who sustained a low carb diet, though I know plenty who've done if for periods of time. But you seem to have jumped topic. Someone saying a diet is unsustainable for them isn't the same as trying to dissuade someone else from it. But perhaps you are refering to some personal experience I am unaware of. Either way, unless it's someone you care about why do you care what they say about your diet?

But many people don't just say the diet is unsustainable for them, they state, often without much knowledge of the diet, that it is unsustainable for anybody.

I care what they say because truth is important to me.

I'll turn your last question around and ask it to you, since you've responded several times. Why do you care that we are responding to defend the diet?

[snip] I know whole grains are very healthy for the general public.

Well don't read this study then, http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/9/1522.full.pdf, it may rock your little world.

bcattoes

I hate when people say a low carb diet is sustainable just because they did it. That is in no way any indication that someone else will do it. I know somone who NEVER eats protein. Doesn't mean I could sustain a no protein diet.

The difference is people know low-carb works, but they say they don't do it because it's 'unsustainable'. Humankind has eaten 'low-carb' for hundreds of thousands of years. How would that be unsustainable or unhealthy? That would go completely against evolution.

And please do enlighten me as to what you get from grains that makes them oh so healthy that I can't get from a salad.

I have no problem with people eating whatever diet they want. Try it out. If it works, great. If it doesn't, try something else.

However, what frustrates me is when people try to dissuade others from even trying by passing their opinion as fact

I've never personally known anyone who sustained a low carb diet, though I know plenty who've done if for periods of time. But you seem to have jumped topic. Someone saying a diet is unsustainable for them isn't the same as trying to dissuade someone else from it. But perhaps you are refering to some personal experience I am unaware of. Either way, unless it's someone you care about why do you care what they say about your diet?

But many people don't just say the diet is unsustainable for them, they state, often without much knowledge of the diet, that it is unsustainable for anybody.

I care what they say because truth is important to me.

I'll turn your last question around and ask it to you, since you've responded several times. Why do you care that we are responding to defend the diet?

[snip] I know whole grains are very healthy for the general public.

Well don't read this study then, http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/9/1522.full.pdf, it may rock your little world.

I don't consider people with diseases (e.g. diabetes) to be "general public", though I guess with the ever increasing epidemic in this country maybe I should rethink that. So, I will amend my statement. I know whole grains to be healthy for those without disease, allergy or conditions that are affected abnormally by grain. Better?

martinah4

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the brainiacs at Harvard did look at the studies critically. Just saying ...

That's the point... you assume.

I don't want to make a war about this, but it's very important to look in depth at what people want you to believe. Even people from Harvard will manipulate data to make things seem a certain way. How do you think they get their money for research? It's usually from grants. How much do you think pharmaceutical companies give out each year to have people conduct tests?

Do you think that Pfizer would still give money to school A if they conduct a test that doesn't find any conclusive evidence that lowering cholesterol reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease? I highly doubt it.

Don't build your foundation on a house of cards.

Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree about Harvard. I read every publication by Dr. Willet that I can get my hands on. Harvard does not make recommendations based on where the money for research came from (actually very few health organizations would do that). They make evidence based recommendations.

With all due respect, do you live in a bubble? Researchers ousted for disagreeing with their "sponsors" happens all the time. Scientist who find that the facts from their studies are in contrasts to what the government/FDA/pharmaceutical companies would like them to support generally lose their research funding, their positions, and their jobs. Outside of the nutrition debate, a quick google search turned up several names of scientist who'd lost their jobs and positions because their research data did not support the hypothesis they were supposed to. As they always say, want to get to the truth, follow the money.

Sorry, again. I'll still have to respectfully disagree unless you can provide some proof that the Harvard recommendations are not evidenced based. I just don't buy into global conspiracy theories.

Funny, the first source I found was a study done by Harvard that showed that researchers at universities are swayed by their funders. Conveniently, the article said that that is not the case with the Harvard studies. Hmmmm...
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1986/6/22/industry-funds-sway-researchers-aims-says/

U of Wa Climate scientist dismissed after exposing false claims of shrinking glaciers...
http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2007/06/01/associate-state-climatologist-fired-exposing-warming-myths

Princeton scientist fired by Gore
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=5ef55aa3-802a-23ad-4ce4-89c4f49995d2

beernutz

I hate when people say a low carb diet is sustainable just because they did it. That is in no way any indication that someone else will do it. I know somone who NEVER eats protein. Doesn't mean I could sustain a no protein diet.

The difference is people know low-carb works, but they say they don't do it because it's 'unsustainable'. Humankind has eaten 'low-carb' for hundreds of thousands of years. How would that be unsustainable or unhealthy? That would go completely against evolution.

And please do enlighten me as to what you get from grains that makes them oh so healthy that I can't get from a salad.

I have no problem with people eating whatever diet they want. Try it out. If it works, great. If it doesn't, try something else.

However, what frustrates me is when people try to dissuade others from even trying by passing their opinion as fact

I've never personally known anyone who sustained a low carb diet, though I know plenty who've done if for periods of time. But you seem to have jumped topic. Someone saying a diet is unsustainable for them isn't the same as trying to dissuade someone else from it. But perhaps you are refering to some personal experience I am unaware of. Either way, unless it's someone you care about why do you care what they say about your diet?

But many people don't just say the diet is unsustainable for them, they state, often without much knowledge of the diet, that it is unsustainable for anybody.

I care what they say because truth is important to me.

I'll turn your last question around and ask it to you, since you've responded several times. Why do you care that we are responding to defend the diet?

[snip] I know whole grains are very healthy for the general public.

Well don't read this study then, http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/9/1522.full.pdf, it may rock your little world.

I don't consider people with diseases (e.g. diabetes) to be "general public", though I guess with the ever increasing epidemic in this country maybe I should rethink that. So, I will amend my statement. I know whole grains to be healthy for those without disease, allergy or conditions that are affected abnormally by grain. Better?

Unless you are one of the many people who have issues with Gluten, Lectin, or Phytates. You can live a perfectly healthy life without them.

lockef

Well don't read this study then, http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/9/1522.full.pdf, it may rock your little world.

I don't believe! The AHA logo is right there on my box of Honey Nut Cheerios!













Just kidding... I don't eat cereal.

bcattoes

I hate when people say a low carb diet is sustainable just because they did it. That is in no way any indication that someone else will do it. I know somone who NEVER eats protein. Doesn't mean I could sustain a no protein diet.

The difference is people know low-carb works, but they say they don't do it because it's 'unsustainable'. Humankind has eaten 'low-carb' for hundreds of thousands of years. How would that be unsustainable or unhealthy? That would go completely against evolution.

And please do enlighten me as to what you get from grains that makes them oh so healthy that I can't get from a salad.

I have no problem with people eating whatever diet they want. Try it out. If it works, great. If it doesn't, try something else.

However, what frustrates me is when people try to dissuade others from even trying by passing their opinion as fact

I've never personally known anyone who sustained a low carb diet, though I know plenty who've done if for periods of time. But you seem to have jumped topic. Someone saying a diet is unsustainable for them isn't the same as trying to dissuade someone else from it. But perhaps you are refering to some personal experience I am unaware of. Either way, unless it's someone you care about why do you care what they say about your diet?

But many people don't just say the diet is unsustainable for them, they state, often without much knowledge of the diet, that it is unsustainable for anybody.

I care what they say because truth is important to me.

I'll turn your last question around and ask it to you, since you've responded several times. Why do you care that we are responding to defend the diet?

[snip] I know whole grains are very healthy for the general public.

Well don't read this study then, http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/9/1522.full.pdf, it may rock your little world.

I don't consider people with diseases (e.g. diabetes) to be "general public", though I guess with the ever increasing epidemic in this country maybe I should rethink that. So, I will amend my statement. I know whole grains to be healthy for those without disease, allergy or conditions that are affected abnormally by grain. Better?

Unless you are one of the many people who have issues with Gluten, Lectin, or Phytates. You can live a perfectly healthy life without them.

I believe you. But for me, personally, I would not live as happy a life. Don't eat them if they bother you. More for me.

martinah4

Zing! Thanks Momma, you beat me to it. If you look at the research on long-term dieting success, all of them are failures. The vast majority of people don't stay on diets long term, whether they are low carb, low fat, calories restricted, all jelly donut or whatever. That doesn't mean that none of them are long term sustainable by 100% of the people who try them though.

I know personally many people who've stayed on low carb diets successfully for more than 10 years and some significantly longer than that. I think to be successful long term you you have to carefully match the individual up to a diet they can live with which is also effective to have any chance of success. If the person you're responding to thinks low carb is unsustainable from the get-go, I can assert with almost 100% certainty that it will be for them.

Right. Know matter what you choose, it has to be something that you are willing to do for the long run. When I first joined MFP, I was doing low fat, and I was obsessed with food. I never experienced the backlash that LCers get here. Now that I am following the Atkins life approach, I feel like a leper on here. It's very hurtful for people to tell me that what I am doing will eventually lead to failure. Weight loss, for me, is a very personal and emotional thing. I've never let internet forums get to me before, but some of the things that are said here can put tears in my eyes. It's really not cool at all.

You feel like a leper, because people keep attacking your diet. I don't know any low-carbers who go over to the threads about low-fat and tell them their diet is all wrong! But, for some reason, they feel the need to preach, which means we have to defend. I don't get it, either. If you need encouragement that you are doing right by your health, just find find me or go to the Atkins support thread!

martinah4

It was the OP that said low-carb lifestyle is not sustainable.

SoCalSwimmerDude

I agree 100%. Using percentages doesn't work as well for me as figuring my macro requirements first. I base my protein requirements on grams per lb of LBM. As long as I consume my protein requirements and stay within spitting distance of my total calorie allotment, the remaining macro breakdown will not matter much when it comes to maintaining weight.

However, I do like to increase my carbs on days that I train. In other words, I keep protein constant and then vary carbs according to my training. Try doing this while using percentages.....doesn't work very well.

Ah! See, we can agree!!

For everyone else... c'mon... No point in arguing about it... everyone has clearly made up their minds... move along...

solpwr

I have a few takeaways from this thread. Thank you everyone for participating; I hope you've gained as much as I have.

1) The macro nutrient balance is probably not that big of deal, frankly. Listening to your body is probably the best way. If you're healthy and happy, you're probably doing OK.

2) Net calories is THE metric for successful weight management. The rest probably doesn't matter that much. Low carb, high carb. Low protein, high protein. People are successfully managing their weight both ways. But if people ingest more fuel (measured in calories) than they need, they will gain weight over time. That's the common denominator in both approaches.

3) To achieve long term success, whatever method or system you use has to be a part of a permanent lifestyle in order for it to work. That takes a level of discipline, and is like maintaining a financial budget. People who successfully maintain a budget financially exercise fiscal discipline. Similarly, people who successfully maintain their weight exercise discipline over their bodies. So in this analogy, in the first instance those who are exempt are extremely wealthy, in the second instance those who are exempt are those who are genetically lean.

4) For every Point of View, there is an alternative view that flies in the face of convention. Low Carb diets, Global warming, Conservative/Liberal, etc, etc, etc. What is conventional may become unconventional, and vice versa. People are drawn inexplicably towards polarization. It's amazing to me. It's a wonder anything ever gets accomplished. P.S. It could be cultural, part of the Western way. It seems the Japanese handled their disaster impressively, without a huge amount of turmoil.

tigersword

Why do people insist on the "no grains because prehistoric man didn't eat them" argument? Humans have been making and eating bread for 30,000 years. People have been eating rice for 15,000 years. Carbohydrates are the body's main energy source. Yes the body can use protein and fat for energy, but carbohydrates are a more efficient energy source. Protein and fat tend to be more "last resort" energy sources.

I have no problem with people doing low carb diets, but to insist that grains aren't part of the normal human diet is just ill-informed.

taem

I have a few takeaways from this thread. Thank you everyone for participating; I hope you've gained as much as I have.

1) The macro nutrient balance is probably not that big of deal, frankly. Listening to your body is probably the best way. If you're healthy and happy, you're probably doing OK.

2) Net calories is THE metric for successful weight management. The rest probably doesn't matter that much. Low carb, high carb. Low protein, high protein. People are successfully managing their weight both ways. But if people ingest more fuel (measured in calories) than they need, they will gain weight over time. That's the common denominator in both approaches.

3) To achieve long term success, whatever method or system you use has to be a part of a permanent lifestyle in order for it to work. That takes a level of discipline, and is like maintaining a financial budget. People who successfully maintain a budget financially exercise fiscal discipline. Similarly, people who successfully maintain their weight exercise discipline over their bodies. So in this analogy, in the first instance those who are exempt are extremely wealthy, in the second instance those who are exempt are those who are genetically lean.

4) For every Point of View, there is an alternative view that flies in the face of convention. Low Carb diets, Global warming, Conservative/Liberal, etc, etc, etc. What is conventional may become unconventional, and vice versa. People are drawn inexplicably towards polarization. It's amazing to me. It's a wonder anything ever gets accomplished. P.S. It could be cultural, part of the Western way. It seems the Japanese handled their disaster impressively, without a huge amount of turmoil.

I have learned a lot about nutrition participating in the forums here. I also learned that your definition of nutrition doesn't fit with others. For instance, I am a type 2 diabetic and I eat a lot of starchy foods and vegetables and my blood sugars are really good and I no longer take medication. So the nutritionist who posted earlier clearly has an opposing opinion (because she stated something I believe is contrary to my own view). I have learned to keep an open mind but I know that myself, I would be fine if I stuck to starchy carbs and veggies--cut out added sodium and sugar (processed foods) and dietary fat.

Following the percentages of macronutrients, I believe, is a good guide but yes, I agree that you must know what your requirements are for what you want to accomplish.

I invite you to read "The Pleasure Trap" by Douglas Lisle, it's a real fascinating read, even if it has a vegetarian stance. I think it address other issues.

Good luck!

babyblake11

I’ve seen a lot of different opinions among MFP folks regarding their preferred ratio of Carbs to Protein to Fats. I’ve been doing my own research among the experts to guide me in this matter, and I’m beginning to form the opinion that many of us aren’t getting right.

There are many successful dieters on MFP, sharing their successes with us, inspiring us to emulate them, and I’ve found much encouragement by reading their stories and accompanying photos. But I’ve noticed that many adhere to a variant of the high protein diet championed by Atkins, where the macro-nutrient ratio is something like 30% carbs, 20% fat, and 50% protein.

But MyFitnessPal (not MyDietPal) has a default setting. I’ve changed mine a few times, so I’m not even sure what the default setting is anymore, but I do remember that its not anywhere near the high protein diet many choose to go by.

So I’ve learned that generally researchers believe the range of Carbs should be 45% to 65% of your total daily diet. Your Fats intake should be 20% to 35%, and your protein intake should be 10% to 35%. One great place to read about this is http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/healthy-diet/NU00200. Another is www.nutrition.gov. Based upon what I’ve read, I’ve settled on the goals of 50% Carbs, 25% Fat, and 25% Protein.

I get concerned about sticking with a high protein diet long term; I don’t think it’s healthy. According to the Mayo Clinic, a high protein diet isn’t harmful “for a short time, such as three to four months”. Also, “if you have kidney disease, liver disease or diabetes, if you're taking medication for a chronic health condition, or if you're pregnant or breastfeeding, talk to your doctor before starting a high-protein diet.”

My perspective is now one of sustaining my lifestyle regarding my diet and exercise habits for the long term. I’m within 10 pounds of my goal weight. I fit into my clothes. I can participate at an acceptable level in the activities I that I choose to do. I don’t feel deprived of foods that I have to abstain from due to careful restriction like I have on diets I’ve done in the past.

I think that people like me that lead a very active lifestyle need carbs to sustain their activity levels. Many weeks I burn 8,000 to 10,000+ calories per week cycling or skiing. When my carb count is low, I get angry and depressed; it affects my outlook, and it’s not fun. Atkins people get angry I’ve noticed, and often feel deprived and feel like their diet is “painful”. I don’t think it’s sustainable for the long term.

Isn’t it better to adopt a sustainable diet, and create a simple calorie deficit to eventually reach a goal weight at a reasonable pace?

Can anyone convince me I’m off base with my macro nutrient balance?

im 50 25 25 too, works perfect for me

littlemili

I like 40 carbs, 30 fat, 30 protein as a goal, although usually it ends up more like 45 carbs, 35 fat, 20 protein. Just seems to give me more energy and suits my food preferences. I used to eat more like 70 carbs, 5 fat, 25 protein. Honestly it makes no difference to my weight loss at all - for my body calories are calories, and macros tend to affect my energy levels (basically carbs make me sleepy).

solpwr

Why do people insist on the "no grains because prehistoric man didn't eat them" argument? Humans have been making and eating bread for 30,000 years. People have been eating rice for 15,000 years. Carbohydrates are the body's main energy source. Yes the body can use protein and fat for energy, but carbohydrates are a more efficient energy source. Protein and fat tend to be more "last resort" energy sources.

I have no problem with people doing low carb diets, but to insist that grains aren't part of the normal human diet is just ill-informed.

Haha you had me at "efficient".

Key: efficiency. Fitness is directly proportional to efficiency.

beernutz

Why do people insist on the "no grains because prehistoric man didn't eat them" argument? Humans have been making and eating bread for 30,000 years. People have been eating rice for 15,000 years. Carbohydrates are the body's main energy source. Yes the body can use protein and fat for energy, but carbohydrates are a more efficient energy source. Protein and fat tend to be more "last resort" energy sources.

I have no problem with people doing low carb diets, but to insist that grains aren't part of the normal human diet is just ill-informed.

Carbohydrates are only the body's main energy source if you choose for them to be. People operate perfectly fine without them. Arguing that carbs are more efficient does not make them more attractive to me, that just means they are more likely to be stored as fat when you eat them excessively and can't burn them all. That is pretty easy to do with carbs. Characterizing protein and fat as last resort is just your own prejudices talking.

You should do some research about the large numbers of people who have problems with grain, particularly gluten. For something that is so wonderful, there are lots of people who don't tolerate it very well.