All About Nutrient Timing (Long Article)
Egger29
Posts: 14,741 Member
Another thing I see regularly on the forums is people who are cutting their calories, but are stuck as to why they're not getting the results they expect. Often people will respond "Watch your Sodium" or "Drink more water".
More likely however, it's types of food that we're selecting throughout the day that enhance or restrict the fat burning mechanisms in the body. The following article is for all those people looking to boost their progress as they melt fat!
All About Nutrient Timing - by Ryan Andrews (Originally Published December 7th, 2009.)
Nutrient timing is a planned alteration of macronutrient intake in order to promote health, workout performance, and get/stay lean.
Nutrient timing strategies are based on how the body handles different types of food at different times. One of the most important nutrient timing principles is that it’s best to eat most non-fruit and veggie carbohydrates during and after exercise.
Many factors influence energy balance, with the laws of thermodynamics being the most important determinants of weight gain and weight loss. Yes, this means how much we eat is priority #1 when changing body composition.
But the key here is “body composition.” If we’re losing equal amounts of fat and muscle when losing weight or gaining equal amounts of fat and muscle when gaining weight, we’re not taking advantage of nutrient timing.
Nutrient timing has several important goals:
1. Nutrient partitioning (where the nutrients go when you ingest them)
2. Improved health
3. Improved body composition
4. Improved athletic performance
5. Enhanced workout recovery
Why is nutrient timing so important? - When you exercise regularly, the body is primed for fat gain or fat loss just as it’s primed for muscle gain or muscle loss during specific times of the day. The wrong foods at the wrong times sabotage your efforts in the gym. The right foods at the right times enhance those efforts. Once we account for energy balance, timing nutrient intake can up-regulate metabolism, shift hormonal profile, and alter body composition.
Manipulating nutrient intake can also help someone take advantage of certain anabolic hormones, namely insulin.
Insulin regulates nutrient entry into muscle cells. If insulin is seldom elevated, the muscle growth related benefits won’t occur. If you plan a higher carbohydrate intake at times when your body is better equipped to handle it, insulin will be under your control, and the body will function better.
Carbohydrates - The body handles various types of carbohydrates differently. Generally, carbohydrates that are digested and absorbed slowly can help to control insulin response. These are carbohydrates that are higher in fibre and lower in simple sugars, such as beans/legumes and vegetables. In contrast, a diet consisting of added sugars and refined carbohydrates (which enter the body rapidly), can elevate blood triglyceride levels and bad cholesterol, and lead to insulin resistance.
The raw materials we give our body through the consumption of food/supplements create the metabolic environment we desire.
What you should know: - Regardless of goals and activity, protein and fat intake stay fairly constant. Make sure that you consume an appropriately sized portion of lean protein and good fats with every meal. The macronutrient we manipulate most commonly in nutrient timing is carbohydrate.
Carbohydrate tolerance and timing - The body can better handle carbohydrates during and after physical activity, as well as when levels of fitness are high and body fat levels are lower (15% or less for men and 20% or less for women).
Therefore, higher-carb situations include some combination of:
- Relatively intense physical activity (such as heavy resistance training or sprinting)
- Relatively frequent physical activity (daily workouts, physically active job, lots of daily-life activity such as walking)
- A high level of physical fitness
- A lower level of body fat
Conversely, lower-carb situations include some combination of:
- Sedentary or nonactive periods
- Lower levels of physical fitness
- Higher levels of body fat
Regardless of your body fat and fitness, consuming carbohydrate during this important postworkout period enables us to replace muscle glycogen and improve recovery. Like a sponge, we draw in all that tasty glycogen much more readily immediately after training.
When to consume carbs: After exercise, keep the recovery process moving by controlling carb intake and consuming plenty of protein rich foods. Dense carb foods are best consumed during and after exercise, for up to about 3 hours. And remember, carbohydrates have a protein sparing effect, so we require less dietary protein when carb intake is higher.
Before you break out your sun watch and start meticulously timing carb gram intake, the window here depends on many factors, including:
- Intensity of exercise
- Previously fasted/fed
- Body composition
- Medications
- Underlying health conditions
- Sleep schedule
- Length of exercise
- Type of exercise
- Food selection
- Time of day
With so many factors, it’s hard to say exactly how long carb tolerance stays high after exercise. For most folks, though, assume that carb tolerance is best for approximately 3 hours after exercise. If you sleep 8 hours per night, then factor in this 3 hour post-workout window, you’re left with about 13 hours of “non sponge-like carb tolerance” living, or 2 to 4 meals.
Non-carb-spongeworthy periods: During the “non sponge-like” period, it’s important to adapt your food intake to what you tolerate. If you are lean and maintaining your current body composition, you’ll likely do fine with some dense carb foods mixed in (25% of your meal or so). If you have fat to lose, focus more on proteins and fats (with dense carb foods making up less than 25% of your meal). To put this in perspective, consider the three main types of carb foods:
1. Fiber-rich carbs - This includes vegetables, fruits and legumes. These foods are absorbed slowly because of their high fibre content and will thus help control blood sugar and hunger. These foods are loaded with nutrients, promote health and are “calorie-dilute”. Having these foods at the base of your “food pyramid” is a great idea. Eat them anytime.
Veggies and beans – smart decision anytime
2. Starchy carbs - Quinoa, amaranth, sprouted grain breads, potatoes, yams, acorn squash, oats, sprouted grain pasta, cereals, and similar foods are very dense sources of carbs. They are a bit lower in nutrients than the fibre-rich carb foods.
These types of starchy carbs are best consumed after exercise. During this time, your muscles are like a big sponge and will use the carbs efficiently. Consume these starchy carbs during the 3 hours or so after exercise.
Whole grains – smart decision for after workouts
Remember, energy balance is still important: Keep portion size moderate. Generally a serving is about the size of your fist. That’s a good place to start.
Note: Outside of the 3 hour post-workout window, having a 1/4 cup of sweet potato or wild rice for dinner isn’t going to be a huge carb load for the body to deal with. If you can meet your compliance goals and keep good eating habits with small amounts of starchy carbs, then go ahead. But be aware: the slope can get slippery. 1/4 cup can turn into a big bowl with added butter, which might mean overeating and no fat loss 3 weeks later. Use a strategy that works for you.
3. Refined sugary carbs - If you want to know what foods fall under this category, just follow around most American youth. The majority of these foods are empty calories and don’t do much for health. Still, eating them during and immediately after exercise may give your body a quick energy boost and accelerate recovery.
Even then, consider the big picture: what is the food going to do for your health? What other substances are in it?
You could take advantage of refined sugary carb foods by using nutrient dense sources like dates, raisins, figs and nutrition bars. Don’t assume that because you exercised, you can eat as many refined sugary foods as you want.
Eat sugary carbs rarely, and only after exercise.
Nutrient timing for muscle gain: - Those interested in gaining muscle need a calorie surplus. However, just grossly over-consuming calories regularly will probably result in fat gain. Nutrient timing helps prioritize muscle gain over fat gain during a muscle gaining phase. Plan meals in accordance with your weekly schedule and create a temporary food surplus.
Summary and recommendations:
Nutrient timing is an important strategy, but it’s not for everyone. If you’re new to healthy eating, don’t worry about timing for now. Start by improving the overall quality of your food and incorporating the basic habits into your life. Once you build a foundation of nutritious eating, then consider adding the nutrient timing habit.
If you are lean and simply want to maintain your existing body composition, consuming more carbohydrates throughout the day will likely be fine.
If you want to lose body fat, first control overall food intake, then aim to consume a majority of carb dense foods during and after exercise sessions (for about 3 hours after). Outside of the 3 hour window consume primarily protein and fat, while consuming fewer carb dense foods (25% of less of meal made up of carb dense foods).
If you want to gain muscle, the nutrient timing principles are similar — simply add more calories overall.
In all cases: Assess your progress and adjust as necessary.
For extra credit
Nutrient timing strategies aren’t useful for the average North American. Glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity? I don’t think so. Let’s just taper donut intake first.
Nutrient timing may help control leptin and ghrelin levels.
Nutrient timing can maximize glycogen stores and improve workouts.
Metabolic “up-regulation” doesn’t always scale directly with food intake and too much of any nutrient, regardless of timing, can result in body fat gains. Using nutrient timing while still eating too much food will result in fat gain.
If you are physically active all day (e.g. bike to work, physically active job, walk at lunch, weights after work, etc.), then your sensitivity to carbs will likely be enhanced .
References:
Dulloo AG & Samec S. Uncoupling proteins: their roles in adaptive thermogenesis and substrate metabolism reconsidered. Br J Nutr 2001;86:123-139.
Douyon L & Schteingart DE. Effect of obesity and starvation on thyroid hormone, growth hormone, and cortisol secretion. Endocrinol Metab Clin North Am 2002;31:173-189.
Friedl KE, et al. Endocrine markers of semistarvation in healthy lean men in a multistressor environment. J Appl Physiol 2000;88:1820-1830.
De Rosa G, et al. Thyroid function in altered nutritional state. Exp Clin Endocrinol 1983;82:173-177.
Klein S, et al. Leptin production during early starvation in lean and obese women. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2000;278:E280-E284.
Ahima RS, et al. Leptin regulation of neuroendocrine systems. Front Neuroendocrinolgy 2000;21:263-307.
Weyer C, et al. Changes in energy metabolism in response to 48 h of overfeeding and fasting in Caucasians and Pima Indians. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 2001;25:593-600.
Mansell PI & MacDonald IA. The effect of underfeeding on the physiological response to food ingestion in normal weight women. Br J Nutr 1988;60:39-48.
Kozusko FP. Body weight setpoint, metabolic adaption and human starvation. Bull Math Biol 2001;63:393-403.
Dulloo AG & Jacquet J. Adaptive reduction in basal metabolic rate in response to food deprivation in humans: a role for feedback signals from fat stores. Am J Clin Nutr 1998;68:599-606.
Volek, J., Nutrition and the Strength Athlete. CRC Press. 2001. Chapter 2. Edited by Catherine G. Ratzin Jackson
Essen-Gustavsson B & Tesch PA. Glycogen and triglycerides utilization in relation to muscle metabolic characteristics in men performing heavy resistance exercise. Eur J Appl Physiol 1990;61:5.
Robergs RA, et al. Muscle glycogenolysis during different intensities of weight resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol 1991;70:1700.
MacDougall JD, et al. Substrate utilization during weightlifting. Med Sci Sports Exerc 1988;20:S66.
Tesch PA, Colliander EB, Kaiser P. Muscle Metabolism during intense, heavy resistance exercise. Eur J Appl Physiol 1986;55:362.
Ivy JL, et al. Muscle glycogen synthesis after exercise: Effect of time of carbohydrate ingestion. J Appl Physiol 1988;64:1480.
Cori CF. The fate of sugar in the animal body. I. The rate of absorption of hexoses and pentoses from the intestinal tract. J Biol Chem 1925;66:691.
Pitkanen H, et al. Free Amino Acid pool and Muscle Protein Balance after Resistance Exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2003;35:784.
Ivy JL. Muscle glycogen synthesis before and after exercise. Sports Med 1977;11: 6.
Chandler RM, et al. Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise. J Appl Physiol 1994;76:839.
Ganong WF (2001) Endocrine functions of the pancreas & regulation of carbohydrate metabolism. In: Review of Medical Physiology. New York: McGraw-Hill, pp. 322-343.
Guyton AC, Hall JE (2000) Insulin, glucagon, and diabetes mellitus. In: Textbook of Medical Physiology. Philadelphia: W. B. Saunders, pp. 884-898.
Jentjens R & Jeukendrup A. Determinants of Post-Exercise Glycogen Synthesis during short term recovery. Sports Med 2003;33:117.
Levenhagen et al. Postexercise nutrient intake timing in humans is critical to recovery of leg glucose and protein homeostasis. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001;280:E982.
Tipton et al. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001;281:E197.
Roy et al. Influence of differing macronutrient intakes on muscle glycogen resynthesis after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol 1998;84:890.
Van Loon et al. Maximizing postexercise muscle glycogen synthesis: carbohydrate supplementation and the application of amino acid or protein hydrolysate mixtures. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;72:106.
Van Loon et al. Ingestion of protein hydrolysate and amino acid-carbohydrate mixtures increases postexercise plasma insulin responses in men. J Nutr 2000;130:2508.
Borsheim E, et al. Essential amino acids and muscle protein recovery from resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2002;283:E648.
More likely however, it's types of food that we're selecting throughout the day that enhance or restrict the fat burning mechanisms in the body. The following article is for all those people looking to boost their progress as they melt fat!
All About Nutrient Timing - by Ryan Andrews (Originally Published December 7th, 2009.)
Nutrient timing is a planned alteration of macronutrient intake in order to promote health, workout performance, and get/stay lean.
Nutrient timing strategies are based on how the body handles different types of food at different times. One of the most important nutrient timing principles is that it’s best to eat most non-fruit and veggie carbohydrates during and after exercise.
Many factors influence energy balance, with the laws of thermodynamics being the most important determinants of weight gain and weight loss. Yes, this means how much we eat is priority #1 when changing body composition.
But the key here is “body composition.” If we’re losing equal amounts of fat and muscle when losing weight or gaining equal amounts of fat and muscle when gaining weight, we’re not taking advantage of nutrient timing.
Nutrient timing has several important goals:
1. Nutrient partitioning (where the nutrients go when you ingest them)
2. Improved health
3. Improved body composition
4. Improved athletic performance
5. Enhanced workout recovery
Why is nutrient timing so important? - When you exercise regularly, the body is primed for fat gain or fat loss just as it’s primed for muscle gain or muscle loss during specific times of the day. The wrong foods at the wrong times sabotage your efforts in the gym. The right foods at the right times enhance those efforts. Once we account for energy balance, timing nutrient intake can up-regulate metabolism, shift hormonal profile, and alter body composition.
Manipulating nutrient intake can also help someone take advantage of certain anabolic hormones, namely insulin.
Insulin regulates nutrient entry into muscle cells. If insulin is seldom elevated, the muscle growth related benefits won’t occur. If you plan a higher carbohydrate intake at times when your body is better equipped to handle it, insulin will be under your control, and the body will function better.
Carbohydrates - The body handles various types of carbohydrates differently. Generally, carbohydrates that are digested and absorbed slowly can help to control insulin response. These are carbohydrates that are higher in fibre and lower in simple sugars, such as beans/legumes and vegetables. In contrast, a diet consisting of added sugars and refined carbohydrates (which enter the body rapidly), can elevate blood triglyceride levels and bad cholesterol, and lead to insulin resistance.
The raw materials we give our body through the consumption of food/supplements create the metabolic environment we desire.
What you should know: - Regardless of goals and activity, protein and fat intake stay fairly constant. Make sure that you consume an appropriately sized portion of lean protein and good fats with every meal. The macronutrient we manipulate most commonly in nutrient timing is carbohydrate.
Carbohydrate tolerance and timing - The body can better handle carbohydrates during and after physical activity, as well as when levels of fitness are high and body fat levels are lower (15% or less for men and 20% or less for women).
Therefore, higher-carb situations include some combination of:
- Relatively intense physical activity (such as heavy resistance training or sprinting)
- Relatively frequent physical activity (daily workouts, physically active job, lots of daily-life activity such as walking)
- A high level of physical fitness
- A lower level of body fat
Conversely, lower-carb situations include some combination of:
- Sedentary or nonactive periods
- Lower levels of physical fitness
- Higher levels of body fat
Regardless of your body fat and fitness, consuming carbohydrate during this important postworkout period enables us to replace muscle glycogen and improve recovery. Like a sponge, we draw in all that tasty glycogen much more readily immediately after training.
When to consume carbs: After exercise, keep the recovery process moving by controlling carb intake and consuming plenty of protein rich foods. Dense carb foods are best consumed during and after exercise, for up to about 3 hours. And remember, carbohydrates have a protein sparing effect, so we require less dietary protein when carb intake is higher.
Before you break out your sun watch and start meticulously timing carb gram intake, the window here depends on many factors, including:
- Intensity of exercise
- Previously fasted/fed
- Body composition
- Medications
- Underlying health conditions
- Sleep schedule
- Length of exercise
- Type of exercise
- Food selection
- Time of day
With so many factors, it’s hard to say exactly how long carb tolerance stays high after exercise. For most folks, though, assume that carb tolerance is best for approximately 3 hours after exercise. If you sleep 8 hours per night, then factor in this 3 hour post-workout window, you’re left with about 13 hours of “non sponge-like carb tolerance” living, or 2 to 4 meals.
Non-carb-spongeworthy periods: During the “non sponge-like” period, it’s important to adapt your food intake to what you tolerate. If you are lean and maintaining your current body composition, you’ll likely do fine with some dense carb foods mixed in (25% of your meal or so). If you have fat to lose, focus more on proteins and fats (with dense carb foods making up less than 25% of your meal). To put this in perspective, consider the three main types of carb foods:
1. Fiber-rich carbs - This includes vegetables, fruits and legumes. These foods are absorbed slowly because of their high fibre content and will thus help control blood sugar and hunger. These foods are loaded with nutrients, promote health and are “calorie-dilute”. Having these foods at the base of your “food pyramid” is a great idea. Eat them anytime.
Veggies and beans – smart decision anytime
2. Starchy carbs - Quinoa, amaranth, sprouted grain breads, potatoes, yams, acorn squash, oats, sprouted grain pasta, cereals, and similar foods are very dense sources of carbs. They are a bit lower in nutrients than the fibre-rich carb foods.
These types of starchy carbs are best consumed after exercise. During this time, your muscles are like a big sponge and will use the carbs efficiently. Consume these starchy carbs during the 3 hours or so after exercise.
Whole grains – smart decision for after workouts
Remember, energy balance is still important: Keep portion size moderate. Generally a serving is about the size of your fist. That’s a good place to start.
Note: Outside of the 3 hour post-workout window, having a 1/4 cup of sweet potato or wild rice for dinner isn’t going to be a huge carb load for the body to deal with. If you can meet your compliance goals and keep good eating habits with small amounts of starchy carbs, then go ahead. But be aware: the slope can get slippery. 1/4 cup can turn into a big bowl with added butter, which might mean overeating and no fat loss 3 weeks later. Use a strategy that works for you.
3. Refined sugary carbs - If you want to know what foods fall under this category, just follow around most American youth. The majority of these foods are empty calories and don’t do much for health. Still, eating them during and immediately after exercise may give your body a quick energy boost and accelerate recovery.
Even then, consider the big picture: what is the food going to do for your health? What other substances are in it?
You could take advantage of refined sugary carb foods by using nutrient dense sources like dates, raisins, figs and nutrition bars. Don’t assume that because you exercised, you can eat as many refined sugary foods as you want.
Eat sugary carbs rarely, and only after exercise.
Nutrient timing for muscle gain: - Those interested in gaining muscle need a calorie surplus. However, just grossly over-consuming calories regularly will probably result in fat gain. Nutrient timing helps prioritize muscle gain over fat gain during a muscle gaining phase. Plan meals in accordance with your weekly schedule and create a temporary food surplus.
Summary and recommendations:
Nutrient timing is an important strategy, but it’s not for everyone. If you’re new to healthy eating, don’t worry about timing for now. Start by improving the overall quality of your food and incorporating the basic habits into your life. Once you build a foundation of nutritious eating, then consider adding the nutrient timing habit.
If you are lean and simply want to maintain your existing body composition, consuming more carbohydrates throughout the day will likely be fine.
If you want to lose body fat, first control overall food intake, then aim to consume a majority of carb dense foods during and after exercise sessions (for about 3 hours after). Outside of the 3 hour window consume primarily protein and fat, while consuming fewer carb dense foods (25% of less of meal made up of carb dense foods).
If you want to gain muscle, the nutrient timing principles are similar — simply add more calories overall.
In all cases: Assess your progress and adjust as necessary.
For extra credit
Nutrient timing strategies aren’t useful for the average North American. Glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity? I don’t think so. Let’s just taper donut intake first.
Nutrient timing may help control leptin and ghrelin levels.
Nutrient timing can maximize glycogen stores and improve workouts.
Metabolic “up-regulation” doesn’t always scale directly with food intake and too much of any nutrient, regardless of timing, can result in body fat gains. Using nutrient timing while still eating too much food will result in fat gain.
If you are physically active all day (e.g. bike to work, physically active job, walk at lunch, weights after work, etc.), then your sensitivity to carbs will likely be enhanced .
References:
Dulloo AG & Samec S. Uncoupling proteins: their roles in adaptive thermogenesis and substrate metabolism reconsidered. Br J Nutr 2001;86:123-139.
Douyon L & Schteingart DE. Effect of obesity and starvation on thyroid hormone, growth hormone, and cortisol secretion. Endocrinol Metab Clin North Am 2002;31:173-189.
Friedl KE, et al. Endocrine markers of semistarvation in healthy lean men in a multistressor environment. J Appl Physiol 2000;88:1820-1830.
De Rosa G, et al. Thyroid function in altered nutritional state. Exp Clin Endocrinol 1983;82:173-177.
Klein S, et al. Leptin production during early starvation in lean and obese women. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2000;278:E280-E284.
Ahima RS, et al. Leptin regulation of neuroendocrine systems. Front Neuroendocrinolgy 2000;21:263-307.
Weyer C, et al. Changes in energy metabolism in response to 48 h of overfeeding and fasting in Caucasians and Pima Indians. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 2001;25:593-600.
Mansell PI & MacDonald IA. The effect of underfeeding on the physiological response to food ingestion in normal weight women. Br J Nutr 1988;60:39-48.
Kozusko FP. Body weight setpoint, metabolic adaption and human starvation. Bull Math Biol 2001;63:393-403.
Dulloo AG & Jacquet J. Adaptive reduction in basal metabolic rate in response to food deprivation in humans: a role for feedback signals from fat stores. Am J Clin Nutr 1998;68:599-606.
Volek, J., Nutrition and the Strength Athlete. CRC Press. 2001. Chapter 2. Edited by Catherine G. Ratzin Jackson
Essen-Gustavsson B & Tesch PA. Glycogen and triglycerides utilization in relation to muscle metabolic characteristics in men performing heavy resistance exercise. Eur J Appl Physiol 1990;61:5.
Robergs RA, et al. Muscle glycogenolysis during different intensities of weight resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol 1991;70:1700.
MacDougall JD, et al. Substrate utilization during weightlifting. Med Sci Sports Exerc 1988;20:S66.
Tesch PA, Colliander EB, Kaiser P. Muscle Metabolism during intense, heavy resistance exercise. Eur J Appl Physiol 1986;55:362.
Ivy JL, et al. Muscle glycogen synthesis after exercise: Effect of time of carbohydrate ingestion. J Appl Physiol 1988;64:1480.
Cori CF. The fate of sugar in the animal body. I. The rate of absorption of hexoses and pentoses from the intestinal tract. J Biol Chem 1925;66:691.
Pitkanen H, et al. Free Amino Acid pool and Muscle Protein Balance after Resistance Exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2003;35:784.
Ivy JL. Muscle glycogen synthesis before and after exercise. Sports Med 1977;11: 6.
Chandler RM, et al. Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise. J Appl Physiol 1994;76:839.
Ganong WF (2001) Endocrine functions of the pancreas & regulation of carbohydrate metabolism. In: Review of Medical Physiology. New York: McGraw-Hill, pp. 322-343.
Guyton AC, Hall JE (2000) Insulin, glucagon, and diabetes mellitus. In: Textbook of Medical Physiology. Philadelphia: W. B. Saunders, pp. 884-898.
Jentjens R & Jeukendrup A. Determinants of Post-Exercise Glycogen Synthesis during short term recovery. Sports Med 2003;33:117.
Levenhagen et al. Postexercise nutrient intake timing in humans is critical to recovery of leg glucose and protein homeostasis. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001;280:E982.
Tipton et al. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001;281:E197.
Roy et al. Influence of differing macronutrient intakes on muscle glycogen resynthesis after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol 1998;84:890.
Van Loon et al. Maximizing postexercise muscle glycogen synthesis: carbohydrate supplementation and the application of amino acid or protein hydrolysate mixtures. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;72:106.
Van Loon et al. Ingestion of protein hydrolysate and amino acid-carbohydrate mixtures increases postexercise plasma insulin responses in men. J Nutr 2000;130:2508.
Borsheim E, et al. Essential amino acids and muscle protein recovery from resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2002;283:E648.
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Replies
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Only enough time tonight to skim this but looking forward to reading it all tomorrow.. thanks for your thoughts/article!:flowerforyou:0
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Excellent read, thank you! On most days I like to eat my carbs throughout the day (physical job) and taper them down at night. I find on exercise days I have to eat more at dinner to meet calorie quotas, so this makes me feel a little less freaked out about the red potatoes I'm having for dinner tomorrow night. What about times when your workout is midday, but in order to net 1200 those carbs fall outside of the 3 hour window?0
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Interesting read
The only thing I would say is that the post workout "window" seems to vary from study to study. Some have said 1hr, some 3, some 24. Who do you believe?
And if you were to believe a 24hr window then technically you could eat your crappy carbs for 50% of your life if you workout hard every second day
Not that I am advocating that, just an extreme example. 0 -
What about times when your workout is midday, but in order to net 1200 those carbs fall outside of the 3 hour window?
In that case, you might want to consider what you're doing (or not doing) for your Post-Workout Nutrition. That'll ensure you're getting your body re-fuelled for maximum potential. I shared the following reference last week:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/326989-all-about-post-workout-nutrition0 -
The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.
So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.
To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204
The "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.
You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.
Properly done preworkout nutrition EASILY elevates insulin above and beyond the maximal threshold seen to inhibit muscle protein breakdown. This insulin elevation resulting from the preworkout meal can persist long after your resistance training bout is done. Therefore, thinking you need to spike anything is only the result of neglecting your preworkout nutrition"
Pre-exercise (and/or during-exercise) nutrient intake often has a lingering carry-over effect into the post-exercise period. Throughout the day, there's a constant overlap of meal digestion & nutrient absorption. For this reason, the effectiveness of nutrient timing does not require a high degree of precision.0 -
Dude. The Article is from Precision Nutrition. Take it up with Dr Berardi and tell him he and his colleagues are wrong if you disagree. No need to hijack the thread.0
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Dude. The Article is from Precision Nutrition. Take it up with Dr Berardi and tell him he and his colleagues are wrong if you disagree. No need to hijack the thread.
Why post on a public forum if you don't want responses?0 -
I was actually bringing up the topic of the anabolic "window" which as can be seen above has varied in study to study. Not creating an argument here. I generally follow the nutrient timing thing myself.0
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Dude. The Article is from Precision Nutrition. Take it up with Dr Berardi and tell him he and his colleagues are wrong if you disagree. No need to hijack the thread.
I didn't take it as a disagreement but rather as an enhancement.0 -
An interesting read.
All can be very confusing but I think I'm beginning to get my head around the whole timing of nutrients thing...
Much more to read yet though before I can extract the knowledge I need to apply to my own timings.
Cheers
Jay0 -
In spite of the debate, professional endurance athletes have not given up the premise of nutriet timing...
Typical example of nutrient timing and cycling is here:
http://youtu.be/hFj3CbWtshc 0 -
I like Berardi, but for 99% of the population it appears that the 24 hour focus on nutrient requirements trumps all of the other minutia.0
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I like Berardi, but for 99% of the population it appears that the 24 hour focus on nutrient requirements trumps all of the other minutia.
For people not interested in athletic performance you are correct.
Good article, thanks for posting!0 -
When the day comes that I can afford the infrastructure that can monitor my nutrient timing and can show I can compete in the upper echelons where it can make a slight difference I'll be sure to change my existing protocol. Until then I'll assume the food I ate preworks is still going to interfere with nutrient timing fo when I do my workouts, and suspect the meal I have a few hours later will not mess with future nutrient timing......no wait, that wrong.I like Berardi, but for 99% of the population it appears that the 24 hour focus on nutrient requirements trumps all of the other minutia.
For people not interested in athletic performance you are correct.
Good article, thanks for posting!
0 -
When the day comes that I can afford the infrastructure that can monitor my nutrient timing and can show I can compete in the upper echelons where it can make a slight difference I'll be sure to change my existing protocol. Until then I'll assume the food I ate preworks is still going to interfere with nutrient timing fo when I do my workouts, and suspect the meal I have a few hours later will not mess with future nutrient timing......no wait, that wrong.I like Berardi, but for 99% of the population it appears that the 24 hour focus on nutrient requirements trumps all of the other minutia.
For people not interested in athletic performance you are correct.
Good article, thanks for posting!
I think your percentage (99%) of those who work out may be a misnomer. Those who do a lot of cardio, and intense cardio through running, cycling, simming, XC skiing, etc... - have the right nutrients at the right times to get most bang for your buck out of the training makes good sense. Unless you believe in just doing endless "junk miles" at a level below one's ability....
Why wouldn't you want to perform your workout at the best possible level you can perform them to create a better training stress as well as the best possible recovery to build for the next workout?0 -
When I did compete in the few ironmans I would generally do supercompensations and that seemed to work the best
When the day comes that I can afford the infrastructure that can monitor my nutrient timing and can show I can compete in the upper echelons where it can make a slight difference I'll be sure to change my existing protocol. Until then I'll assume the food I ate preworks is still going to interfere with nutrient timing fo when I do my workouts, and suspect the meal I have a few hours later will not mess with future nutrient timing......no wait, that wrong.I like Berardi, but for 99% of the population it appears that the 24 hour focus on nutrient requirements trumps all of the other minutia.
For people not interested in athletic performance you are correct.
Good article, thanks for posting!
I think your percentage (99%) of those who work out may be a misnomer. Those who do a lot of cardio, and intense cardio through running, cycling, simming, XC skiing, etc... - have the right nutrients at the right times to get most bang for your buck out of the training makes good sense. Unless you believe in just doing endless "junk miles" at a level below one's ability....
Why wouldn't you want to perform your workout at the best possible level you can perform them to create a better training stress as well as the best possible recovery to build for the next workout?
for me................but I suspect that would meet your nutritional scrutiny for food guidelines, just a guess though. what are junk miles.....kinda sounds a little elitist thinking you have all the right answers for everyone.......which may not be true, and just going by your post history...........I bet that there might be a few athletes that would look at your food protocol and consider them junk miles......actually I'm sure in the context of racing.0 -
When I did compete in the few ironmans I would generally do supercompensations and that seemed to work the best
for me................but I suspect that would meet your nutritional scrutiny for food guidelines, just a guess though. what are junk miles.....kinda sounds a little elitist thinking you have all the right answers for everyone.......which may not be true, and just going by your post history...........I bet that there might be a few athletes that would look at your food protocol and consider them junk miles......actually I'm sure in the context of racing.
Well, I can appreciate an attack. ;-)
'Tis the 12 week base period at the moment for me and have been mired doing it in the basement until the snow and ice and polar vortex moves away from this worst winter since 1979. Jan-March is my traditional weight trimming months before the 12 week build starts. My nutrition will change very considerably in the next 4 weeks time as I move into the build, but will also be transitioning in the coming week as I've reached or am about to reach my target weight for weight trimming of the 8 or 9 pounds I packed on in the off season at the end of last year.
Junk miles are not elitist. It's just a term used by bike coaches when someone fails to hold their power zones deep into a scheduled training session. So, as an example, if during the final 1/2 hour or 45 mintues of a scheduled 2 1/2 hour ride the watts drop below the intended zone as the fuel/nutrients/rest&recovery or whatever have failed to allow one to complete their scheduled training sesson at the intensity as planned and limps in at a "junk mile" or lower training zone.
Does that translate to shorter duration workouts - be they on the bike, with the weights, on the treadmill, in the pool or whatever one is training to do? Perhaps that is what we are all trying to discuss and figure out, but most likely the discussion is better served and would be in a more natural habitat if it were in a closed group, rather than the general open forums. It seems with all of the information available pro and con - the debate creates quite a dust cloud.0 -
Well that was just too polite a response, while at the same time discovering I had you mixed up with a different poster. Moral of story don't jump to conclusions when your in a rush to go some where, and feel the need to get the last word in. Cheers.When I did compete in the few ironmans I would generally do supercompensations and that seemed to work the best
for me................but I suspect that would meet your nutritional scrutiny for food guidelines, just a guess though. what are junk miles.....kinda sounds a little elitist thinking you have all the right answers for everyone.......which may not be true, and just going by your post history...........I bet that there might be a few athletes that would look at your food protocol and consider them junk miles......actually I'm sure in the context of racing.
Well, I can appreciate an attack. ;-)
'Tis the 12 week base period at the moment for me and have been mired doing it in the basement until the snow and ice and polar vortex moves away from this worst winter since 1979. Jan-March is my traditional weight trimming months before the 12 week build starts. My nutrition will change very considerably in the next 4 weeks time as I move into the build, but will also be transitioning in the coming week as I've reached or am about to reach my target weight for weight trimming of the 8 or 9 pounds I packed on in the off season at the end of last year.
Junk miles are not elitist. It's just a term used by bike coaches when someone fails to hold their power zones deep into a scheduled training session. So, as an example, if during the final 1/2 hour or 45 mintues of a scheduled 2 1/2 hour ride the watts drop below the intended zone as the fuel/nutrients/rest&recovery or whatever have failed to allow one to complete their scheduled training sesson at the intensity as planned and limps in at a "junk mile" or lower training zone.
Does that translate to shorter duration workouts - be they on the bike, with the weights, on the treadmill, in the pool or whatever one is training to do? Perhaps that is what we are all trying to discuss and figure out, but most likely the discussion is better served and would be in a more natural habitat if it were in a closed group, rather than the general open forums. It seems with all of the information available pro and con - the debate creates quite a dust cloud.0 -
Big fan of Berardi! I've grown very shy of saying anything that challenges the 'calories are all that matter' mafia here on the site.
It's very true that it doesn't make much difference if you aren't working out very much or very hard, but it definitely becomes a real consideration as you up your training and/or get serious about competing.1 -
Dude. The Article is from Precision Nutrition. Take it up with Dr Berardi and tell him he and his colleagues are wrong if you disagree. No need to hijack the thread.
Clearly you're only looking for agreeable responses & a pat on the back. Participation trophies are over there --->0 -
Big fan of Berardi! I've grown very shy of saying anything that challenges the 'calories are all that matter' mafia here on the site.
;-)1
This discussion has been closed.
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