exact science question

adross3

The idea is to keep the fire burning and not to go into starvation mode. So, if you tested your glucose level with a diabetes tester 90-140mg and waited for it to go down into low levels 90mg to eat again. Wouldn't that be an exact science and optimal.

portexploit

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

adross3

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

Isn't that what everybody does eating 3 square meals a day.

adross3

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

So, where is the optimal level of glucose mg to eat again.

Grokette

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

Isn't that what everybody does eating 3 square meals a day.

Those of us that eat a high fat, moderate protein, low carb way of life have stable blood sugar with low insulin output all day long.

taso42_DELETED

this sounds very interesting... mostly because i would be curious to see where i was throughout the day. kind of a data junkie.

melph3

I think the object is to keep your glucose from spiking and dropping. It is good to have it steadily rise in the morning and then stay within a target range. When you let your glucose drop too low and then you eat, the glucose will spike back up, then your body will overwork your pancreas(which done often enough it may lead to Type II Diabetes.)
Like you said it is good to keep feeding the fire...
I would just add that it is important to eat foods that are low on the glycemic index...otherwise ones' glucose will spike.

adross3

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

Isn't that what everybody does eating 3 square meals a day.

cam you get ripped and muscular on this diet.

Those of us that eat a high fat, moderate protein, low carb way of life have stable blood sugar with low insulin output all day long.

deeharley

There is no such thing as exact science when it comes to the human body - that's why doctors are called "practicing physicians."

girlypop

I'm not sure if that would work or not. Your insulin levels will naturally 'yoyo' after meals even in healthy individuals, of course those with diabetes may have more severe cases of their actual blood sugar 'yoyoing'. To the point your blood sugar remains relatively constant throughout the day, unless you have a disorder. That's the whole purpose of insulin; to keep your blood sugar 'constant'.

I wouldn't really think it a good idea to wait for your blood sugar to drop a certain amount before eating your next meal because that would likely be while. Your blood sugar generally speaking rises a little throughout the day and is lowest first thing in the morning. Besides a concern if glucose levels are fluctuating too much; it's not that important. Scientifically speaking the more important issue will always be calories in versus calories out. If you are measuring your blood glucose to guide your diet, depending on your particular trends you may notice that after breakfast it takes hours before your blood glucose is back to what it was before, but believe me you'll be hungry by than. This is why I wouldn't use this technique.

If you want to be scientific count calories. If you don't, only eat when you are hungry and try to make healthier choices.

adhillman01

Once your blood glucose gets low enough from using all of your carbohydrates from food, your liver starts breaking down glycogen to release glucose or even starts making glucose from other substrates. As long as that energy source is around your blood sugar won't get very low unless you're injecting insulin or taking other anti-diabetic medications. I like the idea of this, but I don't think it's going to work. It might be interesting to monitor your glucose for a day, but the test strips are VERY expensive and probably isn't feasible to monitor this for a long period of time.

AZKristi

Ok, here is a science primer. When you consume carbohydrates they are broken down into glucose and absorbed into the bloodstream. Excess glucose in the bloodstream can lead to severe consequence (think of diabetic comas as an extreme example). To prevent this from occurring, healthy mammals have an enzyme called insulin which removes glucose from the blood and stores it (as glycogen in muscles or the liver). In addition, glucose is converted into fatty acids and stored that way as well.

What you are proposing might sound like it makes sense, but biochemistry is not on your side. This is because the blood sugar decrease does not mean your body is actually using that energy, it decreases because your body is storing it for use later in the day, week, year or decade. So essentially what you are talking about is building fat - probably not your goal.

If you want to lose fat, you have to choose the right foods. Avoid refined carbohydrates that spike your blood sugar and lead to the production of excess insulin (as this will cause your blood sugar to plummet creating a new sensation of hunger). Whole grains, beans and fruits are good sources of carbs.

ninerbuff

Eh, just stay in positive nitrogen balance so you remain anabolic.

adross3

Ok, here is a science primer. When you consume carbohydrates they are broken down into glucose and absorbed into the bloodstream. Excess glucose in the bloodstream can lead to severe consequence (think of diabetic comas as an extreme example). To prevent this from occurring, healthy mammals have an enzyme called insulin which removes glucose from the blood and stores it (as glycogen in muscles or the liver). In addition, glucose is converted into fatty acids and stored that way as well.

What you are proposing might sound like it makes sense, but biochemistry is not on your side. This is because the blood sugar decrease does not mean your body is actually using that energy, it decreases because your body is storing it for use later in the day, week, year or decade. So essentially what you are talking about is building fat - probably not your goal.

If you want to lose fat, you have to choose the right foods. Avoid refined carbohydrates that spike your blood sugar and lead to the production of excess insulin (as this will cause your blood sugar to plummet creating a new sensation of hunger). Whole grains, beans and fruits are good sources of carbs.

great explaination. Now who can tell me what is best for my bio and objective. Any suggestions?

Grokette

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

Isn't that what everybody does eating 3 square meals a day.

cam you get ripped and muscular on this diet.

Those of us that eat a high fat, moderate protein, low carb way of life have stable blood sugar with low insulin output all day long.

Yes, you can. It is a fat burning eating plan.

adross3

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

Isn't that what everybody does eating 3 square meals a day.

cam you get ripped and muscular on this diet.

Those of us that eat a high fat, moderate protein, low carb way of life have stable blood sugar with low insulin output all day long.

Yes, you can. It is a fat burning eating plan.

I want a fat burning muscle plan. One that keeps glucose stable. Show me someone ripped and buff on your plan.

Grokette

Assuming starvation mode exist. Glucose will only go down to a certain level. I think it's 80mg/mL Think of what you're saying...
You eat, wait for your insulin to go down, then you eat again, then wait for it to go down. All you're doing is just "yoyoing" your insulin, which isn't too good.

Isn't that what everybody does eating 3 square meals a day.

cam you get ripped and muscular on this diet.

Those of us that eat a high fat, moderate protein, low carb way of life have stable blood sugar with low insulin output all day long.

Yes, you can. It is a fat burning eating plan.

I want a fat burning muscle plan. One that keeps glucose stable. Show me someone ripped and buff on your plan.

The second link is our group before and after photos.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/116409718456748/?notif_t=group_activity

http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=oa.116619021769151&type=1

portexploit

Also we're friend's as you know. I know you, you kind of remind me of myself a few years ago. I used to make all these fancy charts, workout plans, set and rep ranges through the month with pyriodization. I told my friend and he was like "Are you training for the olympics or something?" I think you go overboard, the best method is "KISS" (keep it simple stupid). IF you want to be ripped and lean that's a good goal, that's my goal too. The thing is you don't want to be stuck on the weekends making up plans and doing things for the week. You want to sit back and enjoy life but also be at the best you can be, you have to find a balance.

You can have perfect insulin levels and be fat if you sit on your butt all day. The key to all this is really exercise. There are people out there who eat 7,000 calories a day and are lean.

adross3

Also we're friend's as you know. I know you, you kind of remind me of myself a few years ago. I used to make all these fancy charts, workout plans, set and rep ranges through the month with pyriodization. I told my friend and he was like "Are you training for the olympics or something?" I think you go overboard, the best method is "KISS" (keep it simple stupid). IF you want to be ripped and lean that's a good goal, that's my goal too. The thing is you don't want to be stuck on the weekends making up plans and doing things for the week. You want to sit back and enjoy life but also be at the best you can be, you have to find a balance.

You can have perfect insulin levels and be fat if you sit on your butt all day. The key to all this is really exercise. There are people out there who eat 7,000 calories a day and are lean.

tell me why.instinctivly I don't want to this eat more fat diet.

portexploit

Also we're friend's as you know. I know you, you kind of remind me of myself a few years ago. I used to make all these fancy charts, workout plans, set and rep ranges through the month with pyriodization. I told my friend and he was like "Are you training for the olympics or something?" I think you go overboard, the best method is "KISS" (keep it simple stupid). IF you want to be ripped and lean that's a good goal, that's my goal too. The thing is you don't want to be stuck on the weekends making up plans and doing things for the week. You want to sit back and enjoy life but also be at the best you can be, you have to find a balance.

You can have perfect insulin levels and be fat if you sit on your butt all day. The key to all this is really exercise. There are people out there who eat 7,000 calories a day and are lean.

tell me why.instinctivly I don't want to this eat more fat diet. Low fat diets have been linked to depression. All of our hormones run on fat. Fat help keeps us full. If there is any macro nutrient you should reduce, it is carbs, if your goal is to get lean.

Here is the "truth" about macro nutrients. Carbs spike insulin, which can cause you to gain weight. Protein lowers insulin, fat has no direct effect on fat. I'd perfer fat over carbs anyday.

adross3

First of all...Thank you everybody for your input. I can tell you that I am learning so much.

THANK YOU.

portexploit

First of all...Thank you everybody for your input. I can tell you that I am learning so much.

THANK YOU.

I also know you're scared of fat. When I did low carb, i was scared of it too, but I had to get my calories in too. I used to put 1/2 cup of olive oil in my chicken marinade. Sometimes, I'd coat broccoli with bacon bits and cheese, with some ranch dressing. Fat's that are solid aren't good. I just had to try it with high fat, let go of my fears of fat, of what we have been "told." There is so much bs in health and fitness it's crazy. So I understand your fear and where you're coming from. Like i said, just trust and try it out, you'll see fat isn't bad at all. It's just the hype people told us.

taem

The idea is to keep the fire burning and not to go into starvation mode. So, if you tested your glucose level with a diabetes tester 90-140mg and waited for it to go down into low levels 90mg to eat again. Wouldn't that be an exact science and optimal.

I heard that theory as well. I do test myself every morning (as I am a T2 diabetic) and while I cannot quote any research off hand, I can say that as I began my weight loss journey, I found that losing weight and reducing my fat intake reduced my blood glucose.

My blood sugars this past week has been under 100 (upper range of normal) and I have been losing weight. Actually, it is the fastest period of weight I have lost. I will see if I can find the research and determine if it is even slightly credible as I also was curious when I came across it.

Out of clearing the "air" of insulin and diabetics, in a diabetic's muscle cell, there are two things that are of importance: intramyocellular lipid (fat) and mitochondria (Barnard, 23). Insulin does "push" or stores the excess food (now converted), into the muscle cell. The mitochondria's function is to burn the fat, but diabetics have less of them. This explains why diabetics who are not in ketosis and continue to eat fat never gets better and why overweight or obese people who have lots of mitochondria will not get diabetes but will get other chronic diseases. This also explains why a "thin" person can have type 2 diabetes, because their muscles have too much fat and not enough mitochondria.

This is why I am a low fat dieter. I do not want to put myself into a state of ketosis. I do not want to constantly replenish my muscle cells with fat.

As how this relates to your question. I believe that if your body has just the right amount (Goldilock's syndrome), your body will be in a state of fat burning. Again, I will PM you once I find it and can verify it to myself.

AZKristi

Insulin does "push" or stores the excess food (now converted), into the muscle cell. The mitochondria's function is to burn the fat, but diabetics have less of them.

Mitochondria do not burn fat... they simply take electrons (from a variety of metabolic pathways) and turn them into cellular energy called ATP. Mitochondria will take electrons from whatever metabolic pathways are active in the cell. If your body happens to be metabolizing fat, the mitochondria will use energy from that process. Keep in mind, because fat it the most efficient way to store energy, the body will typically consume glucose/glycogen stores before fat.

Also keep in mind that the number of mitochondria in a cell is not a fixed genetic trait. Research suggests that caloric restriction and moderate exercise may increase the number of mitochondria in cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562606/?tool=pubmed

taem

<snip>
Mitochondria will take electrons from whatever metabolic pathways are active in the cell. If your body happens to be metabolizing fat, the mitochondria will use energy from that process. Keep in mind, because fat it the most efficient way to store energy, the body will typically consume glucose/glycogen stores before fat.
<end snip>

So, if someone doesn't consume a lot of dietary fat, say 5-10% of calories IN and can burn off carbs through exercise, the body or in this case mitochondria will then use the fat stores?

I can deal with that! I am off for my morning jog, see you folks in a hour.

taem

Mitochondria do not burn fat... they simply take electrons (from a variety of metabolic pathways) and turn them into cellular energy called ATP. Mitochondria will take electrons from whatever metabolic pathways are active in the cell. If your body happens to be metabolizing fat, the mitochondria will use energy from that process. Keep in mind, because fat it the most efficient way to store energy, the body will typically consume glucose/glycogen stores before fat.

Can you quote where you found this please? Thanks.

Here is a very non medical, very broad source that tells the function of function of mitochondria in muscle cells, I'm sure you can find similar results under the search term mitochondria in muscle.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_would_happen_if_you_did_not_have_mitochondria