Why We Get Fat - G. Taubes

grinch031

One other thing I've noticed is that almost all the MFP posts I've seen raving about this book are from people with some type of hormone/metabolic disorder.

Is there anyone having better results with the methods in this book that has no diagnosed disorders (i.e. as far as you know you are healthy other than your weight)? What other methods did try?

A good number of obese people have medical problems that they don't know about such as insulin resistance or full on metabolic syndrome.

Low-carb works for a lot of other people as well, even those who are already thin and just want to take off the last 5 lbs or so.

Silverkittycat

One other thing I've noticed is that almost all the MFP posts I've seen raving about this book are from people with some type of hormone/metabolic disorder.

Is there anyone having better results with the methods in this book that has no diagnosed disorders (i.e. as far as you know you are healthy other than your weight)? What other methods did try?

Well, no results in losing weight as I've never been overweight. No disorders, no pills, no health conditions.
Methods for what? Weight loss? I'm not looking for weight loss, just health. I still like like Taubes for what he did bring to the attention of the masses.
Are you looking for weight loss results? No secret. No shortcuts. Eat less, move more. What are you looking for? Listen to Acg, he knows what he's talking about.

neanderthin

Having read Good Calories, Bad Calories, I think Taubes' hypothesis makes a lot of sense, even though it is flawed.

First thing to make clear is that Taubes' hypothesis is completely consistent with the laws of thermodynamics.

Anyways even if you set the science aside, I have a hard time believing that humans are the only species incapable of regulating their own fat metabolism, such that when presented with an abundance of food, they will end up obese. That whole notion seems absurd to me. Now people can find flaws in Taubes' hypothesis, but I can't rule it out especially when a HUGE proportion of the obese population has insulin resistance. And we all know insulin resistance can cause further weight gains.

The big question is whether Taubes is right, that excess refined carbohydrate consumption CAUSES insulin resistance and obesity.

Here is one doctor's opinion:

http://www.carbohydratescankill.com/402/carbohydraterich-diet-likely-culprit-for-insulin-resistance-2

Overconsumption of food in general causes insulin resistance, not carbs on their own and diet is only 1 factor that contributes to insulin resistance and why people think it's all that matters is just lack on information.. Anyone can eat all the carbs they want and if it's at a maintenance level, it gets used as energy, or stored as glycogen. If that same person is eating a lot of carbs in a deficit then they become more insulin sensitive, every time. Saying carbs causes obesity is no different than saying saturated fat causes heart disease. The big question, or the big equation that is hard to figure out is that all metabolic dysfuction and the difficulties trying to figure out how we the individual burn calories is enormous, and has everyone saying and thinking everyone is different. In reality all factors that make it difficult to figure out why and how we burn calories are automatically accounted for on the outside of the energy balance equation, even though people don't know what they are, and calories in vs out always works, the problem like i said is people don't know much about the out side of the EBE, as opposed to the in side where it's just calories from food.

Are we all really that different in caloric expenditure? I don't think we are. I think people who are sedentary burn less than people who are active all day long, and that difference is pretty significant but predictable. But I think the individual activities' expenditures are probably comparable from person to person.

Yes we are actually. A person that is insulin resistant, diabestes, pcos, hypo/hyper thyroid all with the same age and weight will have drastically different burn rates. People that fidget more at rest can vary anywhere from 200 to 700 calories more a day, without any exercise. The big problem is sites like this that have a person calculate their BMR and then pick an activity level......that is the problem as far as the confusion is concerned.......If people recoreded what they eat while living their life over a time line of 2 to 4 weeks and averaged those calories out to find a maintenance level, then it is as simple as calories in vs out. If someone has pcos, or any dysfunction with their metabolism will be accounted for in this method, simple.

Silverkittycat

Low-carb works for a lot of other people as well, even those who are already thin and just want to take off the last 5 lbs or so.

Maybe, maybe not? Read the last few sentences on this post and look in to it.
http://sparkofreason.blogspot.com/2008/06/swift-kick-in-asp.html

bcattoes

One other thing I've noticed is that almost all the MFP posts I've seen raving about this book are from people with some type of hormone/metabolic disorder.

Is there anyone having better results with the methods in this book that has no diagnosed disorders (i.e. as far as you know you are healthy other than your weight)? What other methods did try?

A good number of obese people have medical problems that they don't know about such as insulin resistance or full on metabolic syndrome.

Low-carb works for a lot of other people as well, even those who are already thin and just want to take off the last 5 lbs or so.

I don't doubt any of that, but it does not really answer my question re: has anyone without a disorder followed other diets and had no success, then had success with this. I'm curious for two reasons.
1. because so far everyone I've seen that swears by this method does have a disorder.
2. I have no disorders and don't have trouble losing weight by the conventional method (watching calories and regular exercise)

Acg67

For people who are unconcerned about dietary carbohydrates from a weight-gain perspective because of higher metabolic levels or athletic activity, the caution is this: Although it is possible to burn off the excess glucose, one cannot burn off the excess insulin. Excess insulin production, no matter how thin you are, wreaks metabolic havoc and invariably yields unhealthy consequences over time and accelerates again. It is also possible to be thin and diabetic.

The only thing in the body that needs glucose is red blood cells. Everything else can run on fat and/or ketones. Excess protein can be converted into glucose (and it takes more energy to do this than to just consume carbs/sugar and have that convert to glucose - i.e. burns more calories!!).

Excellent insulinophobia in that copy pasta. Are they aware of high insulinogenic protein is?

grinch031

One other thing I've noticed is that almost all the MFP posts I've seen raving about this book are from people with some type of hormone/metabolic disorder.

Is there anyone having better results with the methods in this book that has no diagnosed disorders (i.e. as far as you know you are healthy other than your weight)? What other methods did try?

A good number of obese people have medical problems that they don't know about such as insulin resistance or full on metabolic syndrome.

Low-carb works for a lot of other people as well, even those who are already thin and just want to take off the last 5 lbs or so.

I don't doubt any of that, but it does not really answer my question re: has anyone without a disorder followed other diets and had no success, then had success with this. I'm curious for two reasons.
1. because so far everyone I've seen that swears by this method does have a disorder.
2. I have no disorders and don't have trouble losing weight by the conventional method (watching calories and regular exercise)

Ok I'll give you my own story. I have been running marathons and half marathons for years and kept gaining weight during training, and would actually have to go on calorie restriction diets in between training plans when I'm exercising less and not so hungry. So I would go from being 10lbs overweight to about 20lbs overweight and the cycle continues. I was also eating a high-carb diet as an endurance athlete. I was hungry all the time while restricting calories, so I couldn't sustain it permanently, especially when I exercised alot.

So I went on an unstructured low-carb diet this time and am down about 16-lbs and about 1/3 of the way into a marathon training plan. So for the first time the exercise hasn't caused me to get extra hungry. I now eat reasonably on most days and can keep the weight off without struggles.

grinch031

For people who are unconcerned about dietary carbohydrates from a weight-gain perspective because of higher metabolic levels or athletic activity, the caution is this: Although it is possible to burn off the excess glucose, one cannot burn off the excess insulin. Excess insulin production, no matter how thin you are, wreaks metabolic havoc and invariably yields unhealthy consequences over time and accelerates again. It is also possible to be thin and diabetic.

The only thing in the body that needs glucose is red blood cells. Everything else can run on fat and/or ketones. Excess protein can be converted into glucose (and it takes more energy to do this than to just consume carbs/sugar and have that convert to glucose - i.e. burns more calories!!).

Excellent insulinophobia in that copy pasta. Are they aware of high insulinogenic protein is?

If you eat more carbs than protein, won't you generate more insulin?

bcattoes

One other thing I've noticed is that almost all the MFP posts I've seen raving about this book are from people with some type of hormone/metabolic disorder.

Is there anyone having better results with the methods in this book that has no diagnosed disorders (i.e. as far as you know you are healthy other than your weight)? What other methods did try?

A good number of obese people have medical problems that they don't know about such as insulin resistance or full on metabolic syndrome.

Low-carb works for a lot of other people as well, even those who are already thin and just want to take off the last 5 lbs or so.

I don't doubt any of that, but it does not really answer my question re: has anyone without a disorder followed other diets and had no success, then had success with this. I'm curious for two reasons.
1. because so far everyone I've seen that swears by this method does have a disorder.
2. I have no disorders and don't have trouble losing weight by the conventional method (watching calories and regular exercise)

Ok I'll give you my own story. I have been running marathons and half marathons for years and kept gaining weight during training, and would actually have to go on calorie restriction diets in between training plans when I'm exercising less and not so hungry. So I would go from being 10lbs overweight to about 20lbs overweight and the cycle continues. I was also eating a high-carb diet as an endurance athlete. I was hungry all the time while restricting calories, so I couldn't sustain it permanently, especially when I exercised alot.

So I went on an unstructured low-carb diet this time and am down about 16-lbs and about 1/3 of the way into a marathon training plan. So for the first time the exercise hasn't caused me to get extra hungry. I now eat reasonably on most days and can keep the weight off without struggles.

Were you restricting calories only with no thought to nutrition or quality of food (fiber, protein, type of fat, etc.)? And you have no diagnoses?

mrsdizzyd84

Like a moth to a flame... Good Lord you all are predictable. Aren't ya'll about tired of having this argument? Seem you all have one every few days and you each repeat yourselves over and over and over again.

grinch031

One other thing I've noticed is that almost all the MFP posts I've seen raving about this book are from people with some type of hormone/metabolic disorder.

Is there anyone having better results with the methods in this book that has no diagnosed disorders (i.e. as far as you know you are healthy other than your weight)? What other methods did try?

A good number of obese people have medical problems that they don't know about such as insulin resistance or full on metabolic syndrome.

Low-carb works for a lot of other people as well, even those who are already thin and just want to take off the last 5 lbs or so.

I don't doubt any of that, but it does not really answer my question re: has anyone without a disorder followed other diets and had no success, then had success with this. I'm curious for two reasons.
1. because so far everyone I've seen that swears by this method does have a disorder.
2. I have no disorders and don't have trouble losing weight by the conventional method (watching calories and regular exercise)

Ok I'll give you my own story. I have been running marathons and half marathons for years and kept gaining weight during training, and would actually have to go on calorie restriction diets in between training plans when I'm exercising less and not so hungry. So I would go from being 10lbs overweight to about 20lbs overweight and the cycle continues. I was also eating a high-carb diet as an endurance athlete. I was hungry all the time while restricting calories, so I couldn't sustain it permanently, especially when I exercised alot.

So I went on an unstructured low-carb diet this time and am down about 16-lbs and about 1/3 of the way into a marathon training plan. So for the first time the exercise hasn't caused me to get extra hungry. I now eat reasonably on most days and can keep the weight off without struggles.

Were you restricting calories only with no thought to nutrition or quality of food (fiber, protein, type of fat, etc.)? And you have no diagnoses?

I definitely have no diagnoses, and my running performance was above average. I ate a bit of everything (fruits, vegetables, meats, dairy), but I certainly ate far too many refined carbohydrates, although sugar was never a problem. So pretty much what got me was all kinds of bread (ie. Subway foot-long sandwiches), pizza, pasta, breakfast cereal, bagels.

So I can look back and say maybe I would be okay if I switched to whole grain instead of refined carbs, but I don't know unless I try it. I don't think fruits are a problem.

LadyKT

Excellent insulinophobia in that copy pasta. Are they aware of high insulinogenic protein is?

What about fat? Isn't that why Atkins/ketogenic diets are higher in fat above all else?

bcattoes

I definitely have no diagnoses, and my running performance was above average. I ate a bit of everything (fruits, vegetables, meats, dairy), but I certainly ate far too many refined carbohydrates, although sugar was never a problem. So pretty much what got me was all kinds of bread (ie. Subway foot-long sandwiches), pizza, pasta, breakfast cereal, bagels.

So I can look back and say maybe I would be okay if I switched to whole grain instead of refined carbs, but I don't know unless I try it. I don't think fruits are a problem.

Thanks for the info! Interesting stuff.

LadyKT

Like a moth to a flame... Good Lord you all are predictable. Aren't ya'll about tired of having this argument? Seem you all have one every few days and you each repeat yourselves over and over and over again.

Some people got points to prove. We get it.

thebassdrumheavy

I like cookies.

marsellient

Read Taubes and got myself all wound up and confused about what was best for me (just me). Then I read another book, a new one that some of you might want to check out, The Cure for Everything! Untangling the Twisted Messages About Health, Fitness and Happiness, by Timothy Caulfield. It's an easy read, and "untangled" a lot of stuff for me. Didn't necessarily make me happy to read the message, but made me less confused. Like everything though, you're going to take what you want out of what you read, and leave the rest.

Firesign

Bump to read later. Thanks

SCUBAMomofTwo

I agree with everything Mr. Taubes presents....and no, I don't think that makes this site irrelevant.

grinch031

I agree with everything Mr. Taubes presents....and no, I don't think that makes this site irrelevant.

As someone who does appreciate the work of Taubes, I will say be careful with statements like this. The vultures are hovering around the sky above us.

Taubes made some good points, but he's a little off on some things.