I've hit a Major Plateau - HELP!

Russellb97

Joe that's not true at all.

If she's dieting, her glycogen stores will be depleted, and our body is more likely to store extra energy as glycogen than bodyfat. Glycogen is short-term energy storage and a higher priority than long-term energy storage(bodyfat)

Like I said worst case scenario she gains 1/3 of a pound of fat, but more likely she doesn't gain any fat.

Studies have shown that eating a caloric surplus will in fact increase metabolism.

I live this plan, I did this to lose 130lbs 7 years ago, and I still do it today.

I love my macros as much as the next guy, but the biggest issue is calories in and out. Your telling me the doc who lost 27lbs eating Twinkies hit his macros?

Our metabolisms will decline when we burn fat for energy, having one day a week where we don't stops that.

Extremely serious.

Many people have the impression it's too good to be true, but knowing what I know through experience and research it's actually a no-brainier.

It is scientifically impossible for one bad day to screw you up, so don't worry about it.
Say your BMR is 1,800 calories, and you don't workout but still burn an extra 500 calories throughout the day with your actviites.
Now you ate 3,600 calories because your spiking.
3,600-(1,800+500=2,300)= +1,300 now that is your total surplus.

How many calories equals a pound?
3,500

So worst case scenario you gain 1/3 of a pound.

The cool part is those extra calories don't get stored as fat, but instead go to restoring glycogen in your liver and muscles.

Now the best news is, when we store energy we can't be in starvation mode, they completely contradict each other. How can you be starving and store energy?

Also your body has to metabolize all 3,600 calories causing a spike in your base metabolism.

You also get to eat the foods you really love.

I call this a win-win-win-win-win

So am I serious???
Yes I think I am.
:happy:

If you are gaining 1/3 of a pound, it's going to your weight as fat or muscle. Most likely it is going to be fat, granted it's not alot. The part where you are incorrect is suggesting that she eat way over her TDEE level for one day to break her plateau. Yes one day isn't going to hurt her, but that isn't the reason she is in a plateau.

Most likely she was undereating which does a number of things. First it can actually change your BMR level to the point of where now she is no longer eating at the proper calorie deficit. Second, her macros are most likely not correct. Protein and Fat minimum macronutrient intake plays a very important role in weight loss or weight gain (if that's your goal). Not consuming the minimums can cause adverse effects as well.

When people eat X amount of calories and lose weight, and then increase their calories when they plateau they are changing their macronutrient intake also.

Bottom line: Her calorie intake is not accurate that coincides with her TDEE. Eating way over TDEE for one day isn't going to do anything except make her gain a little weight. She needs to eat at a proper deficit.

Russellb97

Yes on my Spike Days I do nothing but relax and enjoy food.
If I were to workout, I'd just eat more to make sure I had a small caloric surplus.

The plan in a nutshell;
6 days of a deficit, using BMR as a calorie goal.
1 day of surplus, 2XBMR

I do agree that macros are important, so I eat high protein, moderate fat, and lower carb

I also eat the majority of my carbs and calories after 5pm.

I was the first to do this, and this is how I got to look like the pic in my signature. Then my clients had awesome results, and there's quite a few following it with success right now. The best part is that it's very doable lifestyle and we don't feel deprived.

joejccva71

Joe that's not true at all.

If she's dieting, her glycogen stores will be depleted, and our body is more likely to store extra energy as glycogen than bodyfat. Glycogen is short-term energy storage and a higher priority than long-term energy storage(bodyfat)

Like I said worst case scenario she gains 1/3 of a pound of fat, but more likely she doesn't gain any fat.

Studies have shown that eating a caloric surplus will in fact increase metabolism.

I live this plan, I did this to lose 130lbs 7 years ago, and I still do it today.

I love my macros as much as the next guy, but the biggest issue is calories in and out. Your telling me the doc who lose 27lbs eating Twinkies hit his macros?

Our metabolisms will decline when we burn fat for energy, having one day a week where we don't stops that.

1. If you eat a calorie surplus over your TDEE you WILL gain weight ....PERIOD. And it will be either fat or muscle.

2. Based on your information, you are saying that if she eats over her surplus that her glycogen levels in her liver will be replenished and won't gain any fat. Keto dieters eat barely any carbs for 6 days out of the week, then have a refeed day on the 7th to where they go over on carbs but still remain at a calorie deficit and their glycogen levels replenish just fine.

They are ALWAYS in a calorie deficit. It's carbs and amino acids that replenish glycogen levels.

3. Cite those studies please. I would like to see some controlled studies and journals.

4. The doctor that lost 27lbs didn't keep the weight off. He was in an enormous calorie deficit and lost the weight like HCG'ers do.

5. I assume since you believe in calories in versus calories out that you also believe that meal timing is irrelevant....yes? Or are you going to tell me to eat 5-6 meals a day every 2 to 3 hours to stoke the metabolic fire?

Russellb97

Meal timing is irrelevant.

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v24/n11/full/0801395a.html

Keto dieters are not like us, they are in a totally different metabolic state, with their brains only getting a 1/3 of the energy it needs.

Why do keto dieters think that unless your keto you can't drop bodyfat? is it some kind of joke?

I mean I've done just fine eating my donuts and pizza, why would I ever want to stop this?

Joe that's not true at all.

If she's dieting, her glycogen stores will be depleted, and our body is more likely to store extra energy as glycogen than bodyfat. Glycogen is short-term energy storage and a higher priority than long-term energy storage(bodyfat)

Like I said worst case scenario she gains 1/3 of a pound of fat, but more likely she doesn't gain any fat.

Studies have shown that eating a caloric surplus will in fact increase metabolism.

I live this plan, I did this to lose 130lbs 7 years ago, and I still do it today.

I love my macros as much as the next guy, but the biggest issue is calories in and out. Your telling me the doc who lose 27lbs eating Twinkies hit his macros?

Our metabolisms will decline when we burn fat for energy, having one day a week where we don't stops that.

1. If you eat a calorie surplus over your TDEE you WILL gain weight ....PERIOD. And it will be either fat or muscle.

2. Based on your information, you are saying that if she eats over her surplus that her glycogen levels in her liver will be replenished and won't gain any fat. Keto dieters eat barely any carbs for 6 days out of the week, then have a refeed day on the 7th to where they go over on carbs but still remain at a calorie deficit and their glycogen levels replenish just fine.

They are ALWAYS in a calorie deficit. It's carbs and amino acids that replenish glycogen levels.

3. Cite those studies please. I would like to see some controlled studies and journals.

4. The doctor that lost 27lbs didn't keep the weight off. He was in an enormous calorie deficit and lost the weight like HCG'ers do.

5. I assume since you believe in calories in versus calories out that you also believe that meal timing is irrelevant....yes? Or are you going to tell me to eat 5-6 meals a day every 2 to 3 hours to stoke the metabolic fire?

joejccva71

Also bro that doctor that was on the twinkie diet ate 2/3 of his intake from junk food, the rest of his intake came from a protein shake and veggies. I am in agreement with you about calorie intake (energy in versus out). I'm also in agreement with you about meal timing being irrelevant. I create a diet myth debunk thread that never would get stickied so it's kinda lost in the depths of the forum.

My only thing I was questioning you about was your increase in calorie surplus over TDEE to fix her plateau when she simply needs to make sure of what her TDEE is, and then eat a proper deficit and macro intake to break through it.

I need to find an article by Alan Aragon regarding plateau's. Steve Stroutman here on MFP has an amazing article regarding the same phenomenon, but it's not released yet until next week.

Russellb97

I'm sorry if I was rude man.

It's been proven through the semi-starvation studies that metabolism do slow down when we have constant caloric deficits, also it just makes sense when we know the purpose of storing bodyfat is long-term energy storage for survival.

You can plateau when your body has dropped your metabolism because it perceives your diet as starvation.

When you have a surplus you are showing your body that there is plenty of food and your not starving and leptin levels return to normal, thus bring metabolism back up and ending cravings.

Another benefit is your body has to metabolize each one of those extra calories spiking up metabolism.

Macros do play a role, because if you eat too little protein you can lose lean body mass, if you eat too little fat your body an't process fat for energy and it lowers key hormones.

We really don't disagree on that.

If you go over your TDEE, you can store energy as glycogen and gain some water weight not necessarily fat. Going over TDEE will NOT gain muscle weight. Calories are not stored in muscles for energy, your body builds muscle when you are in an anabolic state. Extra calories help, but they are not required.

There are so many benefits to having a Spike Day, that I'd expect everyone to have one.

joejccva71

If you go over your TDEE, you can store energy as glycogen and gain some water weight not necessarily fat. Going over TDEE will NOT gain muscle weight. Calories are not stored in muscles for energy, your body builds muscle when you are in an anabolic state. Extra calories help, but they are not required.

There are so many benefits to having a Spike Day, that I'd expect everyone to have one.

I disagree with this bro.

Going over your TDEE without some kind of weight resistance training will not gain muscle weight, but you will gain weight. Also your body has to have a calorie surplus in order to build muscle tissue. You cannot grow without eating more calories than you burn.

I can guarantee you that Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, and Martin Berkhan will agree with me on this.

It's the same principle where you cannot lose weight if you eat a calorie surplus. It doesn't matter if you only eat fibrous vegetables all day long. If you eat more calories from those veggies than what you burn in a 24 hour period, and you don't do any weight resistance training, you will in fact gain weight and it will be fat.

Sublog

So I lost 28 pounds in three months and since then (June) I haven't moved an oz on the scale. I'm not sure how to shake it up. I read about exercising more and eating more OR exercising less and just eating the same to stay under calories. I can say that I work out a lot(6 days a week 600-1000calories/wkout) and have begun training for a half marathon to see if that helps shift my body to do something else. Some tell me I'm not eating enough but my calories vs my workout usually balance out or I am under by at the most 300 calories. Any suggestions or advice fro how to keep things moving ........I still have about 20 to go. Help!

I haven't read all of the responses in this thread because 90% of them are probably garbage.

Questions:
What is your daily intake of calories and macros?
What is your stats? sex/age/height/weight etc?
How are you measuring your foods?

abutterflyemerges

I don't always like telling people to pig out to restart/jumpstart whatever but I have been losing weight like crazy then for the past 4 months I have been plateau. I exercise daily, i eat healthy, i count my calories, ect ect....I hear well your body adjusted things like that. Or you need to eat more. Well I recently got back from a camping trip and the only workout I had was swimming. I ate smores every night and crap during the day. I decided i was going to enjoy what everyone else was. Well coming back home i gained 5lbs. i was floored. But then got back into my routine again and boom! Started dropping again and now its moving again. I am not sure what I did, maybe like what everyone else is saying but I thought i share that with you.

emmaleigh47

Im not quite as qualified as some of the guys on here but ... common sense question...

Why would you have a "cheat day" and eat 2x your BMR ... but then only eat your BMR all week -- when you could just eat more calories all week and not have a "cheat day."

You see I think the entire concept of cheat days is what got us here in the first place. I dont really want to have a day that I have get in 3800 calories ... because I will feel sick ...

I would rather eat more throughout the week instead...

And to the original poster -- you need to figure out your BMR and never eat under it. Likely you are eating under your BMR and your body is getting smart to that idea.

Check out fat2fitradio.com/bmr

alleyag

Now I think there a misunderstanding here. Eating over your tdee will in fact cause a gain. From the previous post he said that his macros do count and he eats relatively lower carb. Spiking every 7th day and going over on one day does not necessarily mean you will gain in that week. Especially running a deficit on lower carb. Your glycogen stores are depleted, given your strength training which he obviously is. Spiking is more or less carbing up which some and not neccessarily all will go to glycogen storage. And the remaining surplus will still not matter because your in a deficit all week. It may slow the loss a little but that's insignificant given the right deficit. And yes I do believe in metabolic adjustment. Your body adapts if you eat the same 2000 cals everyday you will eventually get stuck. For two reasons one is your probably underestimating your tdee. And two your body learns to work on what you feed it. If you expend 2000 cals of energy and only eat 1800 you will lose weight and your metabolism will slow down to adjust to your new tdee. Eating a small surplus one day a week should increase leptin and give your body the necessary fuel for your next week of grueling workouts. Personally I can't eat like that. It's screws with my mind for some anxiety reasons. I'll indulge occasionally. But I enjoy healthier food and get acid reflux and all types of nonsense from processed crap that's high in fat and sugar. I like it don't get me wrong but I personally can't do it often. So all in all I think your both correct. It's just more complex situation then your getting into.

If you go over your TDEE, you can store energy as glycogen and gain some water weight not necessarily fat. Going over TDEE will NOT gain muscle weight. Calories are not stored in muscles for energy, your body builds muscle when you are in an anabolic state. Extra calories help, but they are not required.

There are so many benefits to having a Spike Day, that I'd expect everyone to have one.

I disagree with this bro.

Going over your TDEE without some kind of weight resistance training will not gain muscle weight, but you will gain weight. Also your body has to have a calorie surplus in order to build muscle tissue. You cannot grow without eating more calories than you burn.

I can guarantee you that Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, and Martin Berkhan will agree with me on this.

It's the same principle where you cannot lose weight if you eat a calorie surplus. It doesn't matter if you only eat fibrous vegetables all day long. If you eat more calories from those veggies than what you burn in a 24 hour period, and you don't do any weight resistance training, you will in fact gain weight and it will be fat.

lbtewksbury

Reading all of this makes me want to go eat a cheeseburger and fries:laugh:

Dtho5159

I take 1 day each week and don't log. Its usually the day we go out to eat with my mom so I don't pay attn to anything and eat what I want. Ive lost 52lb doing this.

Twasney

I had a 40 day plateau this summer too....it wasn't until I went to camp and had no control over the food I was eating that it broke!

I was doing more and differnt exercise and was eating more carbs and fats than I would normally. I still ate lean proteins and veggies but by adding the foods that I was sort of shying away from (my nutritionist does not believe in exclusion dieting) and kicking up the exercise I dropped 4 pounds and am back on track!

I also ate all each and every one of my exercise points for that week as it turned out, when I got home and logged it all!

Sublog

It's been proven through the semi-starvation studies that metabolism do slow down when we have constant caloric deficits, also it just makes sense when we know the purpose of storing bodyfat is long-term energy storage for survival.

You can plateau when your body has dropped your metabolism because it perceives your diet as starvation.

While your metabolism can slow down during long periods of constant caloric deficits, it will never slow down enough to completely overcome a caloric deficit. Otherwise starving to death would not occur. Plateaus are usually a result of people eating too much food, or water weight masking a slight deficit. A moderate caloric deficit of 300-500 per day can be "hidden" by extra water weight for weeks on end under the right circumstances.

When you have a surplus you are showing your body that there is plenty of food and your not starving and leptin levels return to normal, thus bring metabolism back up and ending cravings.

This is true, that a diet break can be beneficial to optimizing metabolic rates, especially as you lean out.

Taken form here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html

"Why Take a Full Diet Break: Physiological Reasons

The physiological stuff is the stuff I talk about all the time here on the site, on the forum and elsewhere. When folks diet and lose weight/fat, the body adjusts metabolic rate downwards. While a majority of this is simply due to weighing less (smaller bodies burn fewer calories), there is also an adaptive component, a greater decrease in metabolic rate than would be predicted due to changes in things like leptin, insulin, thyroid hormones, etc.

By moving to roughly maintenance for a couple of weeks, many of those hormones are given time to recover. Thyroid hormones come back up, as does leptin. This is a big part of the reason for the recommendation to raise carbs to 100-150 grams per day as a minimum.

Thyroid hormones are distinctly sensitive to carbohydrate intake as are leptin levels (especially in the short-term). Just raising calories but keeping the diet very low carb doesn’t accomplish everything hormonally I want the full diet break to do."

If you go over your TDEE, you can store energy as glycogen and gain some water weight not necessarily fat. Going over TDEE will NOT gain muscle weight. Calories are not stored in muscles for energy, your body builds muscle when you are in an anabolic state. Extra calories help, but they are not required.

Agree with some extra carbs will be stored as glycogen IF you are glycogen depleted. The 2nd part, I don't even understand what you are saying?

There are so many benefits to having a Spike Day, that I'd expect everyone to have one.

They aren't needed. I don't do cheat days and I've lost 150 lbs in 12 months.

9/10 people "plateauing" are just people who are doing something wrong. Overtraining/overeating/underestimating/overestimating.

Just understand that IF you are counting your intake and TDEE right, you are losing fat regardless of what the scale says. Sometimes it may take a few weeks to show scale progress.

Pattyc71

What is your daily intake of calories and macros? Daily intake is about 1800-2000, 200gm Carb, 60gm Fat, 80gm Protein
What is your stats? sex/age/height/weight etc? F/31/190
How are you measuring your foods? measuring cups and counting when I can....the rest is estimates as far as size lots of label use.

So I lost 28 pounds in three months and since then (June) I haven't moved an oz on the scale. I'm not sure how to shake it up. I read about exercising more and eating more OR exercising less and just eating the same to stay under calories. I can say that I work out a lot(6 days a week 600-1000calories/wkout) and have begun training for a half marathon to see if that helps shift my body to do something else. Some tell me I'm not eating enough but my calories vs my workout usually balance out or I am under by at the most 300 calories. Any suggestions or advice fro how to keep things moving ........I still have about 20 to go. Help!

I haven't read all of the responses in this thread because 90% of them are probably garbage.

Questions:
What is your daily intake of calories and macros?
What is your stats? sex/age/height/weight etc?
How are you measuring your foods?

joejccva71

@Alleyag: I was simply argueing a point that if you eat over your TDEE level you will gain weight. I realize that if you are still under your TDEE by the end of the week then it doesn't really matter. (From the time you weighed yourself one day, then 7 days later you weighed yourself again) However that wasn't what he was saying. He was talking about going over TDEE for that day doing a spike day and not resulting in weigh gain. Yes it's small but it's a weigh gain.

Also then Russell was telling me that it isn't neccessary to eat a calorie surplus to gain muscle weight which is completely ridiculous unless he's talking about a body recomp but even then it's not realistic to turn all fat stores into muscle, not to mention it's extremely hard and not very efficient at all. Not to mention that you aren't even gaining weight in a body recomp because the entire point behind it is for folks that don't want to gain, and are trying to turn fat into muscle. It's so much easier to cut first, then bulk, cut, bulk, rinse, repeat.

I have been eating a deficit and have been struggling like a mad man just to minimize as much muscle loss as possible while burning the fat off my body losing 1-2 lbs per week. I haven't plateau'd, not once...because I know what my TDEE level is at all times and I eat a deficit that is realistic while consuming my macros.

Ask my girlfriend, she'll tell you how crazy I am with this.

Also to another point. You don't have to eat a calorie surplus to replenish glycogen stores. You just have refeed carb days. You still are eating at a calorie deficit. This is the entire reason why carb cycling works so well, and the entire point behind the science of cycling your carb intake. Just wanted to throw that in there. You don't need to eat over your TDEE at all if your intake and macros are correct.

Pattyc71

We've got quite a bit in common. Its not really a cheat day I maybe exceed my calroies by 2-300 I think I have one heavier meal everything else is the same. Its about a lifestyle change. And I agree 3800 calories is ridiculous. All the other days I just eat healthy but i never refuse myself anything just use a smaller portion if I "have" to have to something.

Im not quite as qualified as some of the guys on here but ... common sense question...

Why would you have a "cheat day" and eat 2x your BMR ... but then only eat your BMR all week -- when you could just eat more calories all week and not have a "cheat day."

You see I think the entire concept of cheat days is what got us here in the first place. I dont really want to have a day that I have get in 3800 calories ... because I will feel sick ...

I would rather eat more throughout the week instead...

And to the original poster -- you need to figure out your BMR and never eat under it. Likely you are eating under your BMR and your body is getting smart to that idea.

Check out fat2fitradio.com/bmr

Lesliecs

So I lost 28 pounds in three months and since then (June) I haven't moved an oz on the scale. I'm not sure how to shake it up. I read about exercising more and eating more OR exercising less and just eating the same to stay under calories. I can say that I work out a lot(6 days a week 600-1000calories/wkout) and have begun training for a half marathon to see if that helps shift my body to do something else. Some tell me I'm not eating enough but my calories vs my workout usually balance out or I am under by at the most 300 calories. Any suggestions or advice fro how to keep things moving ........I still have about 20 to go. Help!

I haven't read all of the responses in this thread because 90% of them are probably garbage.

Questions:
What is your daily intake of calories and macros?
What is your stats? sex/age/height/weight etc?
How are you measuring your foods?

I read most of the responses and don't understand half of them and am more confused that when I started reading them!! I'm not stupid..... but too much information is harder to understand then a short version!

alleyag

I agree with you Joe. A calorie surplus is not necc. to replenish glycogen. I think your right in the sense that plateus are usually caused by a misunderstanding of cals in or out. As the op stated she uses measuring cups and labels for food measurement. She needs a scale! Probably underestimating what she is eating.