building on top of fat

Fight2bFiT

ATT: for those who have experience with this topic/ body builders/ personal trainers/ etc.

FEAR OF MINE is that i will build already on top of the weight i am now, the FAT i have now, if i lift heavy. i love lifting, and KNOW it is NEEDED for healthy weight loss and tone body to add weights to my routine, but will i be turning the fat i have now into fat rather than rid it first then build? not sure what to do in this area! most of healthy people, the HOT ladies getting ready for competition or those who are trying to get RIPPED are already at GOAL and now adding more strength training and heavy weights. should i wait?

inlander

I'm not a body builder/trainer/whatever, but I expressed this same concern to my own trainer when I joined the gym a few months ago. He assured me that the best way to get fit was by gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time - not losing weight/fat and THEN building muscle. Muscle burns fat, so while it may seem at the beginning like you're building muscle under a thick layer of fat, the muscle actually works to burn that fat away. So fear not!

(Hopefully someone can come in here and clarify this using big, professional words.)

fitgurl3

That is right! Muscle burns fat, so you do want to add weights to your workout and make sure you eat protein, so that the muscle can rebuild itself. Besides burning fat, you will metabolize food better as well when you have more muscle. If you are building muscle the fat will go away, do not fear.

Fight2bFiT

I'm not a body builder/trainer/whatever, but I expressed this same concern to my own trainer when I joined the gym a few months ago. He assured me that the best way to get fit was by gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time - not losing weight/fat and THEN building muscle. Muscle burns fat, so while it may seem at the beginning like you're building muscle under a thick layer of fat, the muscle actually works to burn that fat away. So fear not!

(Hopefully someone can come in here and clarify this using big, professional words.)

HA! thanks! it was coming from a trainer or with someone with experience so thats what i was looking for. i guess my biggest question is to lift heavy or not?! i heard lifting heavy = muscle strength but low weight high reps = toning. but then i wrote another message board and they all said GO HEAVY, so i'm just trying to figure out what i best for me.

Lift_hard_eat_big

Most people know the terms Bulking and cutting. In a bulking cycle most people will gain large amount of muscle mass with some body fat. In a cutting phase most people will burn lots of fat and some muscle. But what many few people understand is the term recomp. cycle, short for recomposition. Recomp is putting on lean muscle mass while simultaneously burning fat. Best of both worlds, but somewhat tricky to accomplish.

catwrangler

When I told some friends, (one aged 63 and one aged 20 something) that I was gonna start strength training, BOTH said I would trap fat under the muscle and that I should lose weight first THEN weight train.

Even without knowing the little I know now I STILL knew that was bull****!

Fight2bFiT

That is right! Muscle burns fat, so you do want to add weights to your workout and make sure you eat protein, so that the muscle can rebuild itself. Besides burning fat, you will metabolize food better as well when you have more muscle. If you are building muscle the fat will go away, do not fear.

thank you for responding. i love seeing the results of lifting, TIGHT skin, clothes fit better, SORE and you just FEEL good, but when you see that scale still stay the same, then it gets a bit discouraging.

Lift_hard_eat_big

When I told some friends, (one aged 63 and one aged 20 something) that I was gonna start strength training, BOTH said I would trap fat under the muscle and that I should lose weight first THEN weight train.

Even without knowing the little I know now I STILL knew that was bull****!

Tell them to learn and understand the difference between visceral and subcutaneous fats

Fight2bFiT

Most people know the terms Bulking and cutting. In a bulking cycle most people will gain large amount of muscle mass with some body fat. In a cutting phase most people will burn lots of fat and some muscle. But what many few people understand is the term recomp. cycle, short for recomposition. Recomp is putting on lean muscle mass while simultaneously burning fat. Best of both worlds, but somewhat tricky to accomplish.

never heard of that. what exactly is that?

Fight2bFiT

When I told some friends, (one aged 63 and one aged 20 something) that I was gonna start strength training, BOTH said I would trap fat under the muscle and that I should lose weight first THEN weight train.

Even without knowing the little I know now I STILL knew that was bull****!

Tell them to learn and understand the difference between visceral and subcutaneous fats

i dont even know what that is!!!

inlander

That is right! Muscle burns fat, so you do want to add weights to your workout and make sure you eat protein, so that the muscle can rebuild itself. Besides burning fat, you will metabolize food better as well when you have more muscle. If you are building muscle the fat will go away, do not fear.

thank you for responding. i love seeing the results of lifting, TIGHT skin, clothes fit better, SORE and you just FEEL good, but when you see that scale still stay the same, then it gets a bit discouraging.

Yes, it is discouraging, but keep in mind that just because the scale isn't budging, it doesn't mean you're not changing the composition of your body. Muscle and fat weigh the same, but muscle is denser than fat (you know this already, I'm sure), so you might not be losing weight but you could be losing inches. Take your measurements every month or so.

Lift_hard_eat_big

HA! thanks! it was coming from a trainer or with someone with experience so thats what i was looking for. i guess my biggest question is to lift heavy or not?! i heard lifting heavy = muscle strength but low weight high reps = toning. but then i wrote another message board and they all said GO HEAVY, so i'm just trying to figure out what i best for me.

Lift 60-80% of your max rep at 8-10 reps. 3-5 sets. That will help you build muscle quicker than going light and higher reps. Don't be affraid to go heavy, you won't get all bulky like a man unless you're on the "juice" or are completely going at strength training with the intent to get bulky.

pinkgigi

visceral fat is around the organs (very bad), subcutaneous is just under the skin (the stuff you can see).

GG

Lift_hard_eat_big

Most people know the terms Bulking and cutting. In a bulking cycle most people will gain large amount of muscle mass with some body fat. In a cutting phase most people will burn lots of fat and some muscle. But what many few people understand is the term recomp. cycle, short for recomposition. Recomp is putting on lean muscle mass while simultaneously burning fat. Best of both worlds, but somewhat tricky to accomplish.

never heard of that. what exactly is that?

Recomp? Like I said in the above post, it's putting on lean muscle while burning fat at the same time.

ninerbuff

As a former competitor, I can tell you that building muscle is not that easy especially if you're a trained person already. You will have to be in calorie surplus if the intent is to build lean muscle, but that of course will include adding some fat. Now the surplus doesn't have to be outrageous and the macronutrient content makes a difference. I would go 50% protein, 25% carbs, 25% fat.

Lifting heavy in the 1-6 range builds strength
Lifting heavy in the 8-12 range encourages muscle building
Lifting heavy in the 12-20 range builds muscular endurance

Notice that it's "heavy" in all categories.

Good luck.

Lift_hard_eat_big

visceral fat is around the organs (very bad), subcutaneous is just under the skin (the stuff you can see).

GG

Winner, winner chicken dinner. Vis is the fat underneath muscle that suffocates organs, gives us men a pot belly, when you pat a stomach with vis fat, the stomach is very firm. Sub. fat is the fat over the muscle but just under the skin, it's the fat you can pinch and stretch off a person's stomach.

Russellb97

Most people know the terms Bulking and cutting. In a bulking cycle most people will gain large amount of muscle mass with some body fat. In a cutting phase most people will burn lots of fat and some muscle. But what many few people understand is the term recomp. cycle, short for recomposition. Recomp is putting on lean muscle mass while simultaneously burning fat. Best of both worlds, but somewhat tricky to accomplish.

Exactly right!
Spike84 and Spike Diet is a recomp plan. I have both dropped lots of bodyfat and gained muscle. The more muscle you build the more fat you burn.
You do have to trick your body but it's much easier than you think, you just have to follow the program the way I wrote it.

Fight2bFiT

[/quote]

Yes, it is discouraging, but keep in mind that just because the scale isn't budging, it doesn't mean you're not changing the composition of your body. Muscle and fat weigh the same, but muscle is denser than fat (you know this already, I'm sure), so you might not be losing weight but you could be losing inches. Take your measurements every month or so.
[/quote]

yes i can tell just by looking at my body, i can tell i am smaller, and that is great, but when does the scale finually start following?

chrisdavey

Muscle doesn't burn fat specifically. Increasing muscle mass does increase your BMR but it isn't as drastic as a lot of people think unfortunately.

I can tell you from experience that it is a lot better to do strength training & cardio while eating at a suitable level to create an overall calorific deficit to lose weight. If adequate protein is consumed and you continue to lift heavy then the majority of weight lost "should" be from fat (which is what you want )

I did it the silly way with lots of cardio and low cals and lost a lot of weight quickly and a LOT of muscle as well. It has taken me quite a while to build back the strength and to get a healthy metabolism again. This is how you can end up yo-yo dieting if you're not careful.

Re what is heavy: I consider myself a beginner until I can deadlift 400lbs, squat 300lbs and bench 225lbs. As such I do a beginners program consisting of.

Squat 3 x 10
Bench press 3 x 8
Bent row 3 x 8
Military press 3 x 8
SLDL 3 x 8
BB curl 3 x 8

Do this 3 times a week. Progressively add weight.

Cardio on off days for calorie deficit and recovery.

visceral and subcutaneous: One is fat around the organs and one is the fat under the layer of skin.

Fight2bFiT

HA! thanks! it was coming from a trainer or with someone with experience so thats what i was looking for. i guess my biggest question is to lift heavy or not?! i heard lifting heavy = muscle strength but low weight high reps = toning. but then i wrote another message board and they all said GO HEAVY, so i'm just trying to figure out what i best for me.

Lift 60-80% of your max rep at 8-10 reps. 3-5 sets. That will help you build muscle quicker than going light and higher reps. Don't be affraid to go heavy, you won't get all bulky like a man unless you're on the "juice" or are completely going at strength training with the intent to get bulky.

thank you for this. that is what i am doing now. going heavy, which being that i am pretty weak right now and this is new for me, it isnt much, but instead of the 8s for bis i am going for the 12s or 15s. i know it isnt heavy enough if i can do 10 reps without struggle. i'm not worrying about bulking up like a dude, just scared i would never loose the extra weight first. since i am building muscles, which is heavy in it self and what not.....

Fight2bFiT

As a former competitor, I can tell you that building muscle is not that easy especially if you're a trained person already. You will have to be in calorie surplus if the intent is to build lean muscle, but that of course will include adding some fat. Now the surplus doesn't have to be outrageous and the macronutrient content makes a difference. I would go 50% protein, 25% carbs, 25% fat.

Lifting heavy in the 1-6 range builds strength
Lifting heavy in the 8-12 range encourages muscle building
Lifting heavy in the 12-20 range builds muscular endurance

Notice that it's "heavy" in all categories.

Good luck.

thank you ninerbuff. you are my husband's friend (bigrigpapa) and i am glad he has friends who know their stuff. thanks for the simple and easy understanding response!

Fight2bFiT

Most people know the terms Bulking and cutting. In a bulking cycle most people will gain large amount of muscle mass with some body fat. In a cutting phase most people will burn lots of fat and some muscle. But what many few people understand is the term recomp. cycle, short for recomposition. Recomp is putting on lean muscle mass while simultaneously burning fat. Best of both worlds, but somewhat tricky to accomplish.

Exactly right!
Spike84 and Spike Diet is a recomp plan. I have both dropped lots of bodyfat and gained muscle. The more muscle you build the more fat you burn.
You do have to trick your body but it's much easier than you think, you just have to follow the program the way I wrote it.

wow you still on here helping people out! thats awesome, i figured you got too busy with your book and all. i had you as a friend on my old name. thank you for your response!

Fight2bFiT

Muscle doesn't burn fat specifically. Increasing muscle mass does increase your BMR but it isn't as drastic as a lot of people think unfortunately.

I can tell you from experience that it is a lot better to do strength training & cardio while eating at a suitable level to create an overall calorific deficit to lose weight. If adequate protein is consumed and you continue to lift heavy then the majority of weight lost "should" be from fat (which is what you want )

I did it the silly way with lots of cardio and low cals and lost a lot of weight quickly and a LOT of muscle as well. It has taken me quite a while to build back the strength and to get a healthy metabolism again. This is how you can end up yo-yo dieting if you're not careful.

Re what is heavy: I consider myself a beginner until I can deadlift 400lbs, squat 300lbs and bench 225lbs. As such I do a beginners program consisting of.

Squat 3 x 10
Bench press 3 x 8
Bent row 3 x 8
Military press 3 x 8
SLDL 3 x 8
BB curl 3 x 8

Do this 3 times a week. Progressively add weight.

Cardio on off days for calorie deficit and recovery.

visceral and subcutaneous: One is fat around the organs and one is the fat under the layer of skin.

when you say "cardio on off days for CALORIE DEFICIT and recovery" what do you mean by that?
thank you for your response. right now i eat 1200 plus MOST to ALL excercise calories (i have a HRM) so is that what you mean by not eating too little. i NEVER JUST EAT 1200. also on my cardio days, should i eat less calories, like half of my burned calories, since i'm not doing anything too crazy?

Acg67

http://www.thenewrulesoflifting.com/nrol-for-women

chrisdavey

Here is an example for me. My maintenance being 2100-2200 cals. To lose weight I would be doing this:

Mon: resistance training, 2200 cals
Tue: cardio, 2200cals (or slightly less if you want)
Wed:resistance training, 2200 cals
cardio, 2200cals (or slightly less if you want)
Fri:resistance training, 2200 cals
Sat:2200cals (or slightly less if you want)
Sun:nothing specific


So the theory goes that if you eat at maintenance cals and you create your calorie deficit via exercise. Cardio will generally burn more cals than resistance training. Say 300 for resistance and 600 for cardio.
Deficits would be:
M: 300
T: 600
W: 300
T: 600
F: 300
S: 600
S: 0
Total for 7 days: 2700cals

So if you wanted to aim for the 1lb of fat per week loss then eat a bit less on cardio days to get to 3500deficit. (Note that 3500 deficit will not automatically equal 1lb of fat loss)

If you have more weight to lose (higher BF%) then you can create larger deficits and provided that resistance training is done and adequate protein intake (I aim for 1g/lb of BW but others say 1g/lb of lean body mass) then the majority of weight lost should be from fat. As you get closer to goal weight, the deficits should become smaller to ensure weight loss is from fat.

So to work out what you should be doing, I would need to know your maintenance cals. So BMR & activity level.