Question for runners

TorridCutie

I am currently training for a marathon on October 16th and it is a destination race. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I may not be able to make the trip, so I have been looking at the inaugural Atlanta Marathon on October 30th as a back-up plan. (I will be damned if all this training goes to waste. I will RUN a marathon this fall!)

Anyway, the Atlanta Marathon offers a few pace group runs before the marathon. One of them is on Sept 17th, a 14-mile run. As luck would have it, I have a 14-mile run scheduled for that day. My question is: Do you think it is a good idea to train with a goal-pace team at a week that is supposed to be a pull back week on my training schedule? Will it cause too much of a strain? I am training for my first marathon, btw.

sweetheart03622

I kind of contemplated this as well (I'm doing my first half marathon on Sunday) and everyone I've talked to and everything I've read has said to throw pace out the window and just focus on completing your race... either way, best of luck!!

arc918

So you are planning to run 14 miles either way? The issue is the pace or did I get that wrong?

If it is the pace, then what are the options you are considering?

TorridCutie

So you are planning to run 14 miles either way? The issue is the pace or did I get that wrong?

If it is the pace, then what are the options you are considering?

Yes, I will run the 14 miles either way.

Since I never ran a marathon before, I am going with my last half-marathon pace, which is about 8'22" per mile. The pace calculator at runnersworld.com says I can finish the marathon at 3 hours 45 minutes. I am considering either the 3:45 team or the 3:55 team they have.

Topsking2010

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Topsking2010

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arc918

Pace calculators are helpful, but you need to be careful. What is your best half marathon?

Here is some great advice for you (most people will ignore it):

Go out with the slower pace group on race day. The problem with marathons is that it is easy to feel really good early in the race (and thus go out too fast). Running too fast early in the becomes an exponential problem.

Slower pace group for sure, then and only then if you feel great at mile 19 or so, you can run out ahead of them. Trust me on this.

TorridCutie

Pace calculators are helpful, but you need to be careful. What is your best half marathon?

Here is some great advice for you (most people will ignore it):

Go out with the slower pace group on race day. The problem with marathons is that it is easy to feel really good early in the race (and thus go out too fast). Running too fast early in the becomes an exponential problem.

Slower pace group for sure, then and only then if you feel great at mile 19 or so, you can run out ahead of them. Trust me on this.

Thank you so much for your feedback!

I know about the importance of starting out slow; I have been guilty of it in the past and paid for it in the end. My fastest half is 1:50:34. Maybe I should run with a 4:00 pace group for the training run then and see if it is too taxing?

arc918

The McMillan calculator predicts a 3:53 (8:54 pace) from your half, and I find it to be pretty optimistic (for most runners).

I think you would be wise to start with a 4:00 pace group and see what happens late in the race. Going out too fast in shorter race is bad, but in marathons it can lead to the dreaded "death march."

So are you considering running 14 miles at race pace for a training run? What pace do you most of you long runs at?

aschultz9

I agree with going out slower and picking up the pace later if you feel good. Pace calculators are usually pretty optomistic. What has your longest long run been so far? I personally wouldn't do a 14 mile at race pace for fear of risking injury. I would maybe do a 10 miler at race pace at some point. Also, I wouldn't really set any major goal for your first full marathon. You are better off going out and just finding out how it feels. Set a goal for your second. Good Luck!

TorridCutie

The McMillan calculator predicts a 3:53 (8:54 pace) from your half, and I find it to be pretty optimistic (for most runners).

I think you would be wise to start with a 4:00 pace group and see what happens late in the race. Going out too fast in shorter race is bad, but in marathons it can lead to the dreaded "death march."

So are you considering running 14 miles at race pace for a training run? What pace do you most of you long runs at?

I thought running at race pace would give me an idea about what is feasible on race day, but maybe that is not such a great idea. I usually run my long runs at a pace of 9'40". My longest run so far is 16 miles but I will run an 18 miler on Saturday.

Laurarunnergirl

Most of the organized pace group runs I've attended will divide you up by anticipated marathon finish time, but the actual pace you run for the training run is about 1 minute to a minute and a half slower per mile. Since you already have an idea of your long run pace, show up early and ask the organizers what pace group you should join. When in doubt, pick the slower one

Laura

arc918

14 miles at race pace is a tough workout, certainly tough for newer marathoners to recover from (as you don't want it to muck up the rest of your training)

your 9:40 pace seems smart

you may want to try cranking it up to race pace over the last 4 -5 miles of your 14 miler - I'm a huge fan of these "fast finish" long runs

jillybeanruns

If you're supposed to have a pull-back week, then go with the slower pace group that you're considering. Or even go with a 4:05 group if you find you need the recovery. The goal is time on your feet for your long runs, especially if it's your first marathon. I'm trianing for my first, and although tough to remember, the first goal is to finish, right? So if you go out too hard and stumble on marathon day, running a slower pace for that marathon (due to injury, improper nutrition, whatever...) you will have the confidence to know you can run a slower marathon than you anticipated. Just my .02 but the distance is WAY more important than your pace for your LRs. That's why I'm sure you're doing speedwork and hill training, right?

aschultz9

"Just my .02 but the distance is WAY more important than your pace for your LRs. That's why I'm sure you're doing speedwork and hill training, right? "

Totally agree with this. Mile 23 feels ALOT different than mile 18 when you are actually doing the marathon.

tigerbluefly

14 miles at race pace is a tough workout, certainly tough for newer marathoners to recover from (as you don't want it to muck up the rest of your training)

your 9:40 pace seems smart

you may want to try cranking it up to race pace over the last 4 -5 miles of your 14 miler - I'm a huge fan of these "fast finish" long runs

I agree with everything arc has said. You need to start of with the slow group and kick it up at the end if you have it in you. I always run my races this way and it's the best way.
Don't run race pace in training though, that is where I went wrong. A 30K and then a 10 mile race back to back, at race pace, and now I'm out for 3 weeks waiting for an injury. Save your race pace for race day. You just want your legs to know the distance runs. You'll have your speed on race day. You don't need to use it before hand. No point.

rybo

This is a very interesting read.

As a recent 1st time marathoner that had raceday go south in a very, very bad way.
Throw pace completely out the window. I followed all the predictors and stressed over what paces I was training at versus what I was supposed to race at.
Throw it all out the window and just go run. Hold back a lot during the front end of your race, then work your way into a comfortable rythm. Enjoy the race, take in the sights, and just make sure you have enough energy to finish.

Good luck