Building muscle and losing fat

withchaco

If 1) you can't build muscle on a caloric deficit, and 2) you can't lose weight unless you're on a caloric deficit, how is it possible to gain muscle to lose fat more efficiently? Is it possible to do both simultaneously?

I really want to build some muscles! But I have no idea what kind of a caloric goal I should aim for while doing that. I still have a lot of fat to shed.

BeautyFromPain

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Bellyroll

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taso42_DELETED

For most of us, it's very difficult. If you eat an excellent diet at your maintenance calorie level and lift heavy, you may be able to do a slow body recomp - remaining the same weight, but shift the balance to more muscle / less fat. Or you stay at a deficit and make sure to do strength training in order to minimize muscle loss during weight loss.

ninerbuff

If 1) you can't build muscle on a caloric deficit, and 2) you can't lose weight unless you're on a caloric deficit, how is it possible to gain muscle to lose fat more efficiently? Is it possible to do both simultaneously?

I really want to build some muscles! But I have no idea what kind of a caloric goal I should aim for while doing that. I still have a lot of fat to shed.

Even if your workouts were spot on, your rest perfect, your nutrition on target, gaining muscle while on deficit is practically impossible. To gain muscle you have to gain weight. Since muscle grows from protein intake, you normally have to add more protein. But then you also need more carbs to fuel intense workouts. This invariably leads to calorie surplus.
It's pretty much gain or lose. To do both would be very very difficult.

Grokette

If 1) you can't build muscle on a caloric deficit, and 2) you can't lose weight unless you're on a caloric deficit, how is it possible to gain muscle to lose fat more efficiently? Is it possible to do both simultaneously?

I really want to build some muscles! But I have no idea what kind of a caloric goal I should aim for while doing that. I still have a lot of fat to shed.

The only way I have found to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously is to eat a higher fat, moderate protein, low carb way of eating with the emphasis of the carbs coming from vegetables............

It is effortless weightloss.

sarah44254

I cannot use big fancy words to explain this, but I'm pretty sure I know the general idea.

Eat calorie deficit while lifting heavy weights. This helps your body lose fat and maintain muscle mass.

After you feel like you have lost a decent amount of fat, eat a calorie surplus and continue lifting heavy weights. This will help bulk up your muscles. This is how to gain muscle mass.

If you don't want to bulk up, I think folks usually eat at a deficit until they get to the body fat % they want, then just continue to lift while they add calories in to maintain their weight.

dandur

Lots of great information here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/index.php?s=lose+fat+gain+muscle+same+time

tross0924

It is possible. You can build muscle while losing fat on a calorie deficit. It's just not nearly as effective. I can't remember where I saw it but "they" did a study which showed people on a calorie deficit lost 5 pounds of fat and built 3 lbs of muscle during the same time people on a surplus gained 10 lbs of muscle and 1 lb of fat, and another group just losing weight lost 10 lbs of fat with no muscle change. (warning - all numbers are made up for illustrative purposes, because I can't remember the real ones, but they are close.)

So it can be done, but it's much more effective to "bulk" and add the 10 lbs of muscle and then "cut" to lose the 10 lbs of fat.

Autumn15

If 1) you can't build muscle on a caloric deficit, and 2) you can't lose weight unless you're on a caloric deficit, how is it possible to gain muscle to lose fat more efficiently? Is it possible to do both simultaneously?

I really want to build some muscles! But I have no idea what kind of a caloric goal I should aim for while doing that. I still have a lot of fat to shed.

Even if your workouts were spot on, your rest perfect, your nutrition on target, gaining muscle while on deficit is practically impossible. To gain muscle you have to gain weight. Since muscle grows from protein intake, you normally have to add more protein. But then you also need more carbs to fuel intense workouts. This invariably leads to calorie surplus.
It's pretty much gain or lose. To do both would be very very difficult.

Nine,
Would you suggest it's better then to lose the weight you want and reach that goal first then attempt at toning and muscle building?

_GlaDOS_

I've built muscle while on a calorie deficit. Whether I've simply replaced fat with muscle, it's there now, it wasn't there before, and it wasn't just "hiding". You won't "bulk up" or build large muscles, but it does happen, you just have to eat enough, eat well, and lift heavy.

FrenchMob

Might want to have a look at this: http://www.holygrailbodytransformation.com/

It's possible to do, but very difficult. Plus if you still have access fat to lose, then it's better to tackle that first. Doesn't mean you don't do any strength training, even in a deficit, strength training will help maintain lean mass.

ninerbuff

It is possible. You can build muscle while losing fat on a calorie deficit. It's just not nearly as effective. I can't remember where I saw it but "they" did a study which showed people on a calorie deficit lost 5 pounds of fat and built 3 lbs of muscle during the same time people on a surplus gained 10 lbs of muscle and 1 lb of fat, and another group just losing weight lost 10 lbs of fat with no muscle change. (warning - all numbers are made up for illustrative purposes, because I can't remember the real ones, but they are close.)

So it can be done, but it's much more effective to "bulk" and add the 10 lbs of muscle and then "cut" to lose the 10 lbs of fat.

Not impossible, but you would usually be in one of these 3 groups to do it

1.Obese/morbidly obese and NEVER have worked out on a consistent basis.
2. A former athlete returning after a long layoff.
3. Total newbie to lifting having NEVER engaged in resistance training at all.

Goal_Seeker_1988

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dannylives

....You get on only ONE caloric deficit thing. Being on caloric deficit does not mean that while you're losing weight, you're also losing massive amounts of muscle. You have to adjust your carb, protein, and fat percentages to fulfill your desired goal. You may lose some muscle but if you do it correctly, its not gonna be a whole lot, in fact, if you do it REALLY correctly.....you will gain muscle and lose fat.

Elleinnz

Not sure where you got that information - but I have lost 100lbs in the past year - and built some muscle in the process.....I do two (maybe 3) weight training sessions a week with a PT - and the weights I now lift / move compared to a year ago is very different - and would not be possible without having built some muscle.....

Also with the fat dissapearing I can now actually SEE those muscles!!

I can also see the results in my every day life - my legs are much stronger - I can climb stairs, my knees are much better - as the right muscles now support them - my shoulder strength have increased dramatically - all these things because I have increased the muscle strenght in those areas....

Have I built as much muscle as someone that is not on a calorie defecit - maybe not - but I have definitely built muscle - and all the while losing 2lbs a week!!

ninerbuff

Nine,
Would you suggest it's better then to lose the weight you want and reach that goal first then attempt at toning and muscle building?

Well it depends on your overall goal. I've seen people say they want to lose fat and gain muscle, go on to lose fat down to a low percentage and then decided the muscle that showed was enough.
Personally, I think it's better to try to gain, then cut. Every year, I did 4 months bulk, then 2months cut. Then repeated. Usually I was lean in summer and winter. It's a matter of choice.

Autumn15

Thanks Niner

Randynorthridge

I wouldn't worry about gaining muscle yet until you've hit your desired weight. You'll still lose weight by keeping the amount of calories you eat under control.

I would use your strenght training sessions more like a cardio session. You do this my doing curcuit training with lighter weights, higher reps, and short rests inbetween curcuits. To get a better idea of what I'm talking about just enter curcuit weight training routines in google and read up on them.

You'll get plenty toned by doing curcuit training.

Losing weight is all about calories eaten, calories burned, and the type of calories you're eating. Just wish is was as easy as it sounds :happy:

ninerbuff

I wouldn't worry about gaining muscle yet until you've hit your desired weight. You'll still lose weight by keeping the amount of calories you eat under control.

I would use your strenght training sessions more like a cardio session. You do this my doing curcuit training with lighter weights, higher reps, and short rests inbetween curcuits. To get a better idea of what I'm talking about just enter curcuit weight training routines in google and read up on them.

You'll get plenty toned by doing curcuit training.

Losing weight is all about calories eaten, calories burned, and the type of calories you're eating. Just wish is was as easy as it sounds :happy:

Well that wouldn't be strength training then. That would be muscle endurance training.

yanicka

I was faced with this dilema and I had to make a choice. Do I want a specific number on the scale or do I want to look hot LOL. I choose hot. For 9 months, I was at a calorie defficit and was eating 1200 calories a day. I was only doing cardio. The results was that I was able to fit in a size 4....with a body fat of 26-30% (depending of the methose I use to calculate my BF%) So I got skinny fat and almost 50% of my weight loss was muscle. For the last 2 weeks, I put myself my calories to maintenance and started lifting heavy. The results are that my weight pretty much stayed the same, it vary between 123.8 and 126 pounds. But!!!!! in the same time, I've lost 1 inch at my hips, half an inch at my waist, one inch at my belly button, one inch at my claves and 1/4 of an inch at my bicept....in only 2 weeks!!!!
Smaller me = wonderfull and wh care what the scale say
Good luck

Tegan74

ok, so to be clear if I want to drop inches I weight train, worrying more about building muscle and make sure I eat my exercise calories back. If I want to lose weight I dont weight train as heavily, and eat a deficit?

I'm new to this, but at some point it will all make sense LOL

erzille

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taso42_DELETED

ok, so to be clear if I want to drop inches I weight train, worrying more about building muscle and make sure I eat my exercise calories back. If I want to lose weight I dont weight train as heavily, and eat a deficit?

I'm new to this, but at some point it will all make sense LOL

Always weight train. Always eat your exercise calories (MFP will handle the deficit). Just work out intensely and eat till 0 calories remaining. It couldn't be simpler.

JNick77

There's two ways to look at this, building muscle through strength and size or building muscle through mass; don't confuse the two. You can build some muscle at a calorie deficit by weight training. For a muscle to get stronger it has to grow but not like massive growth. Then on the other hand you have mass growth which comes from a major calorie surplus. You probably already have your calorie deficity setup, so to give you an idea of what you would need for major mass gain here is a good calculator.

http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/july262002/na_masscalculator.htm

Ideally start a mass phase when you're already lean but you can do it whenever you want, it's just easier to manage your fat gain when you're already lean.

Like taso and others have said, regardless of your weight goals you should do strength training. It may vary based on your goals but you should always do some kind.

criscros08

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AshinAms

Hmm, down 76 lb, and I have more or less maintained the muscle mass I had before. Think of it this way - if you are lugging about an extra 76 lb of fat, and you *ARE* active then you will have a fair amount of muscle mass. Fat people are not just a load of blubber hanging off some bones. In fact, I would probably say that I'd LOST some strength in my legs since I lost the 76 lb, not from losing muscle mass, but from merely not having to move that amount of weight around.

So, if you want to maintain the muscle mass you had, and you've lost an enormous amount of weight, it stands to reason that you should keep doing strength training. Also, bear in mind that for women, (not sure if the OP was female) muscle mass gains will be quite slow, unless you are really competitively training. The only time I saw actual measurable muscle gains was when I was working out every day with a split strength training program/very little cardio and supplementing with a lot of protein.

I agree with Niner that would have to fall into one of three specific groups to be able to gain muscle whilst losing weight - obese/never trained before / returning athlete / newbie.

I have been watching my boyfriend gain muscle in the last six weeks (returning athlete) and it is just OBSCENE! You can actually see his body changing day by day. He is also genetically gifted wrt sports, but still - there are a lot of factors, and most of them are not fair (esp if you are female).

Read Tom Venuto's Burn the Fat book - really recommended.

shauna121211

I might just focus on losing weight and then once you hit your goal, focus on gaining muscle. Of course you should still do weight training to tone your muscles! Have you tried to 30 day shred... I've seen such amazing results on the forum and it's usually toning and losing inches, not lbs which means they're probably gaining a lot of muscle!

tigersword

Not sure where you got that information - but I have lost 100lbs in the past year - and built some muscle in the process.....I do two (maybe 3) weight training sessions a week with a PT - and the weights I now lift / move compared to a year ago is very different - and would not be possible without having built some muscle.....

Also with the fat dissapearing I can now actually SEE those muscles!!

I can also see the results in my every day life - my legs are much stronger - I can climb stairs, my knees are much better - as the right muscles now support them - my shoulder strength have increased dramatically - all these things because I have increased the muscle strenght in those areas....

Have I built as much muscle as someone that is not on a calorie defecit - maybe not - but I have definitely built muscle - and all the while losing 2lbs a week!!

Gaining strength and building muscle are two different things. Your muscles need to be trained. By strength training, you train the muscle fibers you have to work more efficiently. In other words, you get stronger. You didn't add any new muscle tissue, you just trained your muscles to work more effectively. In order to build muscle mass, you need a calorie surplus.

LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo

I remember my personal trainer tells me before that if you're got a lot of fat to lose, concentrate on losing the fat first then once you're losing big then its time to start build muscles. Because its pretty impossible to lose weight & build muscle at the same time. Strength training protects you from losing muscles during the weight loss so never forget that but since you got a lot of weight to lose so do more cardio 3-4 days a week then strength training twice a week.

Febgirl

Ok, this is how my nutritionist explained it to me.

If you've got lots of weight to lose (say more than 10kg/20 pounds) then you should try to maintain muscle mass and reduce fat. Others have given good examples of how to do this through exercise and eating lean protein/lower carbs.

For example, let's say you weight 180 pounds and that consists of 100 pounds fat/80 pounds lean muscle (completely made up figures BTW). This would make your lean muscle percentage 44%. If you lost 30 pounds of fat but managed to maintain your lean muscle mass, your body composition would be 70 pounds fat/80 pounds lean muscle. This would mean your lean muscle percentage is 53%.

This is why people who lose a significant amount of weight can appear to 'build' muscle, their lean muscle mass may not be increasing, but the percentage compared to overall body composition is.