If "starvation mode" exists then....

emmab0902

can someone explain anorexics?!

I am not trying to be facetious or stupid, I am genuinely interested in the answer.

I have read a lot about adaptive thermogenesis, and am wondering how or when it kicks in, especially in the light of the fact that people such as anorexics who drastically reduce their intake lose weight at a fairly rapid rate, and don't seem to platuea, rather they get scarily skinny.

I am fully aware of the refeeding issue and later weight gain, but this question is around the journey down not back up!

And just in case, I am clearly not suggesting drastic restriction is a good plan, nor is skinny attractive. Hopefully nobody would take that message from this but I am aware from my job that dysfunctional thinking is easily fed! (Pardon the pun!)

fteale

Starvation mode isn't what the misconception some people on here have. Sure, if you eat less, your body becomes more efficient at using what it can get, but you don't put on weight by eating too little. It simply isn't physically possible. You just lose weight at a slower rate. And start losing other things too, like muscle and bone mass. And hair.

gcineas

bump

baisleac

The difference is starvation MODE vs. ACTUAL starvation.

jamielise2

Starvation mode is temporary where your body stops burning calories because it's not getting enough. But taken to extremes the body will eventually begin feeding on itself...muscle first. Just like anything else, first it tries to conserve energy, but if that doesn't work it will burn whatever it can get for the basic required minimum fuel.

ajbeans

Think of it as "famine response" instead of "starvation mode." Because it's not actual starvation -- it's the body's response when it thinks there's a food shortage. Anorexics and people who are starving are... well, starving. Not in starvation mode.

I wish people would stop using that term. It's misleading.

vim_n_vigor

There is starvation mode and then actual starvation - 2 different things. An anorexic's body long ago passed starvation mode and is actually in the process of starving to death since there are no more resources to hold onto in the body.

sophjakesmom

Very interesting topic. Thanks for bringing it up.

chevy88grl

Starvation mode isn't what the misconception some people on here have. Sure, if you eat less, your body becomes more efficient at using what it can get, but you don't put on weight by eating too little. It simply isn't physically possible. You just lose weight at a slower rate. And start losing other things too, like muscle and bone mass. And hair.

Hm. I disagree. How come when I eat 2000 calories for a week straight - I slowly gain weight, but as soon as I go back to my normal 2200-2500, the weight comes right back off and I maintain. I maintained 150lbs for MONTHS consuming only 2000 calories a day. As soon as I upped my calories, I dropped down to where I currently am (143-145lbs) and as long as I am in that range - I will maintain (I weigh everyday, so I KNOW I am maintaining it). If I drop too low for more than a couple days, the scale creeps right back up.

Not everyone's body works the same. Plain and simple. I've learned in this journey to never say ANYTHING is completely impossible because we all work a little differently and what may SEEM physically impossible to you -- may actually be happening to someone else.

emmab0902

But I have known of some anorexics who eat up to 800 calories a day and still get to that scarily thin stage. I guess I do question the 1200 calorie magic number.

jchester71

Starvation mode is temporary where your body stops burning calories because it's not getting enough.

Actually your body cannot stop burning calories or you die. Even a sleeping person who has not eaten in days is burning calories. Your metabolism may slow down (unless you are engaging in metabolism boosting activities like exercise) but it will never just store food calories it there is a caloric deficit.

acasey0123

they also burn muscle instead of fat

killerqueen17

But I have known of some anorexics who eat up to 800 calories a day and still get to that scarily thin stage. I guess I do question the 1200 calorie magic number.

They are probably doing a lot of excercise as well. And plus, anyone who consistently *sustains* a diet of less than 800 per day will eventually begin to starve.

In addition, once they recover (if they recover) many of them struggle with having a VERY wacked-out metabolism, and have to deal with crazy weight fluctuations... which often triggers a relapse.

whatwentwrong

starvation mode means that your metabolism slows, but it does NOT stop. if you're eating 800 calories a day your weight loss will be slower, but it won't stop completely, which is how people who are anorexic are still losing weight.

SimplyShanRunning

Starvation mode is temporary where your body stops burning calories because it's not getting enough.

Actually your body cannot stop burning calories or you die. Even a sleeping person who has not eaten in days is burning calories. Your metabolism may slow down (unless you are engaging in metabolism boosting activities like exercise) but it will never just store food calories it there is a caloric deficit.

This....

Starvation mode is your bodys way of storing your foods....for later usage cos it is "scared" you wont be nourishing it anymore.......mainly you work out alot but dont eat enough cals to suffice or you dont eat enough cals to suffice your body and you will eventually plateau

Anorexia --- said person actually starves themselves.....restricting.....

Helice

i read this really interesting article.
I would post the link, but i dont remember where i read it..
Baisically, there is such a thing as starvation mode.
But what it is, is that as you eat less and less you will start loosing weight at a slower pace.
If you normally ate 2,000 calories, and you cut down to 1,000 you would loose weight..
If you then cut down to 500 calories even though you would be starving you would still loose weight faster than eating 1,000 calories each day..
and eventually the rate you loose only eating 500 will decrease, (starvation mode).
but it wont decrease by that much..
If you ate 700 calories and were fall then u might loose more than only eating 500 and being starving..
BUT you would still loose weight faster in starvation mode than you would eating 800..

NovemberJune

http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267

http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=35501&sc=801

http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/2009/03/mtyhbusters-starvation-mode.html

http://www.nutracheck.co.uk/Library/ForumArticles/Is+starvation+mode+myth+or+fact.html

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/81391-starvation-mode-myths-and-science

AngelikaLumiere

I have done a lot of reading recently and, I thiink, there are two things that some people are merging together. There is starvation mode and conservation mode. Starvation mode, according to a study done by the military, is very hard to make happen. They took healthy soldiers who had low-average body fat and put them through survival training for 8 weeks. (Low calories /high exercise) They found that the soldiers did not show starvation mode (the consumption of lean body mass) until the soldiers got to 5-6% body fat, which most professional athletes exceed. People with anorexia push their bodies past that point with starvation and excess exercise. The second mode, conservation mode, is when the body believes there is a shortage of calories and shuts down metabolism to conserve calories. Many people in the Message Boards are referring to Conservation Mode as Starvation Mode, which is misleading and confusing to newbies like me (which is why I did so much reading recently.) You can loose weight by cutting way back on calories, like anorexics, but it is harder, you will feel hungry and tired more easily. It is easier to loose weight if you are not in conservation mode because your metabolism is not fighting against you and you are less likely to feel tired and hungry in the process. I am not a doctor or nutritional expert, this is just what I have synthesized from my readings on the subject.

vim_n_vigor

But I have known of some anorexics who eat up to 800 calories a day and still get to that scarily thin stage. I guess I do question the 1200 calorie magic number.

That is because it is not a magic number. There are some smaller people (very short and petite) that can probably eat less. There are taller, bigger boned people who should never drop that low. Whatever calorie amount you are eating, it has to be enough to properly fuel your body for your size and activity level. I look at the 1200 as my minimum, but if I stay under 1450, I am happy.

Russellb97

What is starvation really?
It's when you are not eating enough calories to sustain the energy your using. So your body must use it's stored energy to keep you going.
The only thing that matters is the "net calories" If you eat 2,000 and burn 2,500 you have a -500 net so your starving your body. If you eat 1,000 calories and burn 1,500, it's still a -500 net. It's practically the same difference.

The truth is to lose weight, we have to "starve" our bodies to use it's stored energy.

Starvation mode happens when leptin drops and our thyroid production slows down so we preserve our stored energy. You will keep losing weight but at a slower pace. If you exert energy your body needs to get the energy from somewhere either food or storage, or in extreme cases it can take protein out of your muscle and convert it to glucose.

This is exactly why I have Spike Day's, besides being extremely fun. When I have one day where my net calories is a surplus. Even a +100 calories, I increase my leptin and get my thyroid back to it's normal levels. I spike my metabolism so I don't have to worry about starvation mode.

koutroulakis

Starvation mode isn't what the misconception some people on here have. Sure, if you eat less, your body becomes more efficient at using what it can get, but you don't put on weight by eating too little. It simply isn't physically possible. You just lose weight at a slower rate. And start losing other things too, like muscle and bone mass. And hair.

Hm. I disagree. How come when I eat 2000 calories for a week straight - I slowly gain weight, but as soon as I go back to my normal 2200-2500, the weight comes right back off and I maintain. I maintained 150lbs for MONTHS consuming only 2000 calories a day. As soon as I upped my calories, I dropped down to where I currently am (143-145lbs) and as long as I am in that range - I will maintain (I weigh everyday, so I KNOW I am maintaining it). If I drop too low for more than a couple days, the scale creeps right back up.

Not everyone's body works the same. Plain and simple. I've learned in this journey to never say ANYTHING is completely impossible because we all work a little differently and what may SEEM physically impossible to you -- may actually be happening to someone else.

I have to agree my body does the same thing...if I have more than a 1000 calorie deficit I GAIN weight. If I eat below 1000 cal deficit I lose. Don't know why but its frusterating trying to find that magic number.

Russellb97

Starvation mode isn't what the misconception some people on here have. Sure, if you eat less, your body becomes more efficient at using what it can get, but you don't put on weight by eating too little. It simply isn't physically possible. You just lose weight at a slower rate. And start losing other things too, like muscle and bone mass. And hair.

Hm. I disagree. How come when I eat 2000 calories for a week straight - I slowly gain weight, but as soon as I go back to my normal 2200-2500, the weight comes right back off and I maintain. I maintained 150lbs for MONTHS consuming only 2000 calories a day. As soon as I upped my calories, I dropped down to where I currently am (143-145lbs) and as long as I am in that range - I will maintain (I weigh everyday, so I KNOW I am maintaining it). If I drop too low for more than a couple days, the scale creeps right back up.

Not everyone's body works the same. Plain and simple. I've learned in this journey to never say ANYTHING is completely impossible because we all work a little differently and what may SEEM physically impossible to you -- may actually be happening to someone else.

I have to agree my body does the same thing...if I have more than a 1000 calorie deficit I GAIN weight. If I eat below 1000 cal deficit I lose. Don't know why but its frusterating trying to find that magic number.

This has got to be very frustrating. I don't think this is starvation mode though, it takes more than a day for it to be an issue.
I fasted for lent about 10 years ago. I lost 10lbs! which sounds cool, but I lost all of those pounds over the first 2-3 weeks then I stopped. After lent I gained 15lbs over the next month.
This i just one example, but this has happened to me dozens of times when I was dieting. This is why as soon as an "expert" call's SM a myth I stop listening. I know from experience it is very real.

I agree that starvation is the wrong term, when people are literally starving throughout the world.
I like conservation mode, or metabolism slow-down, but SM is what it's called.

emmab0902

Do you think it kicks in at a certain body fat percentage?? Given for larger people it isnt an issue at the start despite often very large deficits. And from my memory of the Keys study it really hit them hard at 5% body fat

maidentl

Did you know that anorexics can be underweight and still have a high percentage of body fat? Sure you can lose weight/muscle by eating very little food. I would prefer to eat and lose fat. Fat takes up a lot more space.

koutroulakis

Starvation mode isn't what the misconception some people on here have. Sure, if you eat less, your body becomes more efficient at using what it can get, but you don't put on weight by eating too little. It simply isn't physically possible. You just lose weight at a slower rate. And start losing other things too, like muscle and bone mass. And hair.

Hm. I disagree. How come when I eat 2000 calories for a week straight - I slowly gain weight, but as soon as I go back to my normal 2200-2500, the weight comes right back off and I maintain. I maintained 150lbs for MONTHS consuming only 2000 calories a day. As soon as I upped my calories, I dropped down to where I currently am (143-145lbs) and as long as I am in that range - I will maintain (I weigh everyday, so I KNOW I am maintaining it). If I drop too low for more than a couple days, the scale creeps right back up.

Not everyone's body works the same. Plain and simple. I've learned in this journey to never say ANYTHING is completely impossible because we all work a little differently and what may SEEM physically impossible to you -- may actually be happening to someone else.

I have to agree my body does the same thing...if I have more than a 1000 calorie deficit I GAIN weight. If I eat below 1000 cal deficit I lose. Don't know why but its frusterating trying to find that magic number.

This has got to be very frustrating. I don't think this is starvation mode though, it takes more than a day for it to be an issue.
I fasted for lent about 10 years ago. I lost 10lbs! which sounds cool, but I lost all of those pounds over the first 2-3 weeks then I stopped. After lent I gained 15lbs over the next month.
This i just one example, but this has happened to me dozens of times when I was dieting. This is why as soon as an "expert" call's SM a myth I stop listening. I know from experience it is very real.

I agree that starvation is the wrong term, when people are literally starving throughout the world.
I like conservation mode, or metabolism slow-down, but SM is what it's called.

I don't mean to make it sound like it happened in a day, it happens over a few weeks. The most recent scenario went like this ...wk1 down 3 ponds...wk 2 down 1 pound wk 3 gain all 3 pounds BACK!

emmab0902

http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267

Russellb97

Do you think it kicks in at a certain body fat percentage?? Given for larger people it isnt an issue at the start despite often very large deficits. And from my memory of the Keys study it really hit them hard at 5% body fat

Yeah I think the lower your bodyfat percentage gets the more difficult it is to burn fat. It's along the lines of what starvation mode is. We store fat for survival reasons, so when we are using our stored energy our body tries to preserve it to prolong our survival. Our brain has no idea if you are using burning through our fat stores because of famine or we are trying to look hot.

Also genetics play a huge role in this, more highly evolved people store fat easier and have a more difficult time losing it. Where the ones who are always very thin are less evolved. They'd be the first to die in a real famine.

Russellb97

Understanding starvation mode and how metabolism works is why I have been able to finally lose over 100lbs and never look back.

This isn't a joke or a myth. I dieted dozens of times with the same results:
lose weight-plateau-gain weight back

Once I got this I just lost weight, well most importantly burned fat.

I once weighed 330lbs, I wore 46 inch waist pants, and my bodyfat percentage was over 40%

bcattoes

Starvation mode isn't what the misconception some people on here have. Sure, if you eat less, your body becomes more efficient at using what it can get, but you don't put on weight by eating too little. It simply isn't physically possible. You just lose weight at a slower rate. And start losing other things too, like muscle and bone mass. And hair.

Yes, this ^^^

asyouseefit

A few years ago, I was a regular at an "Ana" forum (not proud of it but I got better!). Believe it or not but anorexics struggle daily with what we call "starvation mode" (whatever the right term is). Becoming deathly thin doesn't happen in one day and in the meantime, they encounter plateaus and messed up metabolism. Some of them were desperate about not losing weight on a 100-cals a day diet!!! Of course, on the long term, they ended up shedding the pounds...

Russellb97

http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267

The men in that study were in extreme starvation mode, and side effects were even more extreme then just not losing weight.
I believe in the laws and the numbers. The truth is BMR will slow when we diet, for many reasons, more and more doctors and experts are believing in starvation mode.
BMR is not a fixed number, it varies and is affected by outside influences.