Forks Over Knives Documentary..

questionablemethods

I recently started to watch it, hopefully I will get to watch some more tonight. I have been talking to my husband about it, I think that we still need to eat meat (lean) but not near in the quantities they we are eating now. It just floored me when the made the connection between casein, cancer and America. Totally blows your mind!!

Wait, what link between casein and cancer? Casein is a milk protein, that:
1. People have been drinking for millions of years.
2. Is the protein manufactured by humans that makes up the majority of breast milk.

Cancer is relatively new, how can anyone seriously try and say that casein is the connection to cancer? Haven't seen this documentary, but this absolutely laughable conclusion has pretty much destroyed it's credibility already.

Not to mention that the rats were fed a casein isolate, not milk (or even casein-rich cheese). Again, eat food, not deconstructed isolated proteins. :happy:

And speaking of breast milk -- it is also quite rich in cholesterol! Fancy that. We need it, our bodies manufacture it in far greater amounts than we get from food sources and infants need it in high amounts because it is so essential (that's why egg yolks contain so much too!).

lockef

Cancer is relatively new, how can anyone seriously try and say that casein is the connection to cancer? Haven't seen this documentary, but this absolutely laughable conclusion has pretty much destroyed it's credibility already.

...but doesn't correlation imply causation?

</sarcasm>

_GlaDOS_

The Truth About the China Study

The China Study: Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, and Long-Term Health by T. Colin Campbell

New: Read Dr. Campbell's response to this review and my response to Dr. Campbell. See also Denise Minger's excellent critique of The China Study and my my critical review of Dr. Campbell's animal research.

"Eating foods that contain any cholesterol above 0 mg is unhealthy." -- T. Colin Campbell, The China Study

.....

Chris Masterjohn is hardly a reputable source. He has just recently started his research, while others like Campbell and Fuhrman have been doing research for many, many years.

There is just simply no good argument or research against a plant-based diet. True, there are confounding variable to all research, especially in nutrition, but repeating the research we have already done, as well as engaging in new research on plant-based diets, there is just simply no good research or argument against a plant-based diet (and I don't mean vegan). There are many ways to be healthy, but when we look at disease specifically, much of it is correlated with our food and our environment, cancer included. I often find that the reason people don't want to do the research and see the issue with animal protein is simply because they don't want to give some of it up.

tigersword

I recently started to watch it, hopefully I will get to watch some more tonight. I have been talking to my husband about it, I think that we still need to eat meat (lean) but not near in the quantities they we are eating now. It just floored me when the made the connection between casein, cancer and America. Totally blows your mind!!

Wait, what link between casein and cancer? Casein is a milk protein, that:
1. People have been drinking for millions of years.
2. Is the protein manufactured by humans that makes up the majority of breast milk.

Cancer is relatively new, how can anyone seriously try and say that casein is the connection to cancer? Haven't seen this documentary, but this absolutely laughable conclusion has pretty much destroyed it's credibility already.

Not to mention that the rats were fed a casein isolate, not milk (or even casein-rich cheese). Again, eat food, not deconstructed isolated proteins. :happy:

And speaking of breast milk -- it is also quite rich in cholesterol! Fancy that. We need it, our bodies manufacture it in far greater amounts than we get from food sources and infants need it in high amounts because it is so essential (that's why egg yolks contain so much too!).

Oh yes, cholesterol is used for creating cell walls. Without it, we would all fall apart.

_GlaDOS_

I recently started to watch it, hopefully I will get to watch some more tonight. I have been talking to my husband about it, I think that we still need to eat meat (lean) but not near in the quantities they we are eating now. It just floored me when the made the connection between casein, cancer and America. Totally blows your mind!!

Wait, what link between casein and cancer? Casein is a milk protein, that:
1. People have been drinking for millions of years.
2. Is the protein manufactured by humans that makes up the majority of breast milk.

Cancer is relatively new, how can anyone seriously try and say that casein is the connection to cancer? Haven't seen this documentary, but this absolutely laughable conclusion has pretty much destroyed it's credibility already.

We've been studying the link between casein and cancer for a long time. You forget the food industry has far greater influence on what information gets to you.

lockef

I often find that the reason people don't want to do the research and see the issue with animal protein is simply because they don't want to give some of it up.

What?!?!

The problem is not animal protein. Humans have evolved for millions of years eating both vegetables and meat... yes meat. Smile, you see those front teeth? Those are for tearing the flesh of other animals.

I doubt that pre-historic man was grazing on tofu to get their necessary protein intake.

questionablemethods

Chris Masterjohn is hardly a reputable source. He has just recently started his research, while others like Campbell and Fuhrman have been doing research for many, many years.

And, to paraphrase Max Planck, "Science advances one funeral at a time."

There is just simply no good argument or research against a plant-based diet. True, there are confounding variable to all research, especially in nutrition, but repeating the research we have already done, as well as engaging in new research on plant-based diets, there is just simply no good research or argument against a plant-based diet (and I don't mean vegan). There are many ways to be healthy, but when we look at disease specifically, much of it is correlated with our food and our environment, cancer included. I often find that the reason people don't want to do the research and see the issue with animal protein is simply because they don't want to give some of it up.

Whole foods is the way to go, for sure. I don't believe that animal protein is the culprit. It does get brought along for the ride in many terrible, disease-inducing diets, though. I am not a meat-a-tarian. I eat a lot more vegetables than quite a number of vegetarians I have met and I have happily paid a higher price and scaled back consumption (though I've never eaten a ton of meat) for high quality sources. Seeing advertisements for $0.99/lb chicken simply grosses me out.

lockef

It does get brought along for the ride in many terrible, disease-inducing diets, though.

Exactly! Every study linking meats to cancer always includes processed meats.

There is a huge difference between a grass-fed steak, and a double cheeseburger you get at your local fast food restaurant.

_GlaDOS_

Also, there isn't much money to be made in researching and telling people food and environment is contributing to disease. Pharmaceutical companies make money off of drugs. So if you identify a disease, it's more beneficial to them to make a drug for it, rather than try and figure out how to prevent it in the first place. The government is the same way. Big pharma, big food, and big ag give them money, they create the grants and fund the research that they want to fund.

This is partially the reason why I want to get out of clinical research...

Silverkittycat

Chris Masterjohn is hardly a reputable source. He has just recently started his research, while others like Campbell and Fuhrman have been doing research for many, many years.

There is just simply no good argument or research against a plant-based diet. True, there are confounding variable to all research, especially in nutrition, but repeating the research we have already done, as well as engaging in new research on plant-based diets, there is just simply no good research or argument against a plant-based diet (and I don't mean vegan). There are many ways to be healthy, but when we look at disease specifically, much of it is correlated with our food and our environment, cancer included. I often find that the reason people don't want to do the research and see the issue with animal protein is simply because they don't want to give some of it up.

yeah....Masterjohn's one of the more extreme WAPF members but he usually presents the information well. IMO.

I agree with the rest of what you've said.

questionablemethods

Also, there isn't much money to be made in researching and telling people food and environment is contributing to disease. Pharmaceutical companies make money off of drugs. So if you identify a disease, it's more beneficial to them to make a drug for it, rather than try and figure out how to prevent it in the first place. The government is the same way. Big pharma, big food, and big ag give them money, they create the grants and fund the research that they want to fund.

We agree there. And, not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I have heard of researchers (specifically some with results that don't incriminate saturated fat and cholesterol) getting essentially black-balled from publishing in some of the top-tier journals. I obviously don't know how true this is, but I am in academia (for a wee bit longer, at least) and I know that the much lauded peer-review process is far from flawless. Follow the money and the politics.

questionablemethods

duplicate.

tigersword

I recently started to watch it, hopefully I will get to watch some more tonight. I have been talking to my husband about it, I think that we still need to eat meat (lean) but not near in the quantities they we are eating now. It just floored me when the made the connection between casein, cancer and America. Totally blows your mind!!

Wait, what link between casein and cancer? Casein is a milk protein, that:
1. People have been drinking for millions of years.
2. Is the protein manufactured by humans that makes up the majority of breast milk.

Cancer is relatively new, how can anyone seriously try and say that casein is the connection to cancer? Haven't seen this documentary, but this absolutely laughable conclusion has pretty much destroyed it's credibility already.

We've been studying the link between casein and cancer for a long time. You forget the food industry has far greater influence on what information gets to you.

So, humans have been causing their own cancer for millions of years? Oh wait, cancer hasn't been around until relatively recently, much more recent than human casein consumption. What about Australian studies that show casein has antimutagenic properties? What about the fact that those studies from the China Study consisted of pumping rats full of ridiculous doses of casein? Or the fact that humans don't consume large amounts of casein without whey, which has been shown to have protective properties? It's kinda like concluding the sky is gray because I only look out the window on overcast days, and refuse to look out the window if the sun is out.

dietpop

I just watched Forks over Knives this week, as well as Fat Head.

My mom is Chinese and we ate everything growing up. Beef, pork, ice cream, ... The main difference between us and the "American" neighbors was that we ate tons and tons of vegetables! They make you feel good.

My gut feel is that you should eat what makes your body feel energized and healthy.

koosdel

I just watched Forks over Knives this week, as well as Fat Head.

My mom is Chinese and we ate everything growing up. Beef, pork, ice cream, ... The main difference between us and the "American" neighbors was that we ate tons and tons of vegetables! They make you feel good.

My gut feel is that you should eat what makes your body feel energized and healthy.

I agree.

There is no one diet to solve all that ails mankind. There is only choice and truth.. something these pop-documentaries fail to acknowledge.

Choose the diet that suites you, and understand that I will do the same.

_GlaDOS_

I recently started to watch it, hopefully I will get to watch some more tonight. I have been talking to my husband about it, I think that we still need to eat meat (lean) but not near in the quantities they we are eating now. It just floored me when the made the connection between casein, cancer and America. Totally blows your mind!!

Wait, what link between casein and cancer? Casein is a milk protein, that:
1. People have been drinking for millions of years.
2. Is the protein manufactured by humans that makes up the majority of breast milk.

Cancer is relatively new, how can anyone seriously try and say that casein is the connection to cancer? Haven't seen this documentary, but this absolutely laughable conclusion has pretty much destroyed it's credibility already.

We've been studying the link between casein and cancer for a long time. You forget the food industry has far greater influence on what information gets to you.

So, humans have been causing their own cancer for millions of years? Oh wait, cancer hasn't been around until relatively recently, much more recent than human casein consumption. What about Australian studies that show casein has antimutagenic properties? What about the fact that those studies from the China Study consisted of pumping rats full of ridiculous doses of casein? Or the fact that humans don't consume large amounts of casein without whey, which has been shown to have protective properties? It's kinda like concluding the sky is gray because I only look out the window on overcast days, and refuse to look out the window if the sun is out.

Obviously some forms of cancer are genetic, and obviously casein isn't the only thing correlated with higher rates of cancer. Like I said, research in nutrition is tough. I don't ignore the studies that show the small benefits of casein, and we can never isolate one specific thing, like casein, as the cause of a disease that, even when located in one area, can come in many different forms. But there is more evidence for a plant-based diet (not necessarily a vegan diet) as being healthier than the consumption of mostly animal protein. Perhaps it's simply the fact that we consume a lot of animal protein without the consumption of enough plants. I would never tell anyone that casein is absolutely the cause of their cancer, but I do believe we don't do enough research and provide enough of the information from nutrition research to the public. We usually end up following fad diets, even those described as "lifestyle changes", most of which are loosely based on science, if at all.

HMonsterX

we ate tons and tons of vegetables! They make you feel good.

No, they make YOU feel good. They make ME feel sick. Why do people always do this? Everyone is different, and just saying "you should eat more veg" isn't a very good way to go about it.

AlyRoseNYC

I started watching it and couldn't get past the first few minutes. It seemed very biased.

DKBelle

I am from Hungary and it is same for me we have a big backyard full of fresh vegetables and fruits on it, but of course also eating meat that is already the biggest difference between eating habits I think you don't have to close out the meat totally but eating less of it will help you to maintain your body. Today the main problem especially in USA is that everything is processed even the meat so it is hard to eat healthy ) I rather avoid the meats you buy in big stores.

I just watched Forks over Knives this week, as well as Fat Head.

My mom is Chinese and we ate everything growing up. Beef, pork, ice cream, ... The main difference between us and the "American" neighbors was that we ate tons and tons of vegetables! They make you feel good.

My gut feel is that you should eat what makes your body feel energized and healthy.

Iwillshyne

Have you ever watched it?
How did you like it. I think I will become vegetarian after this documentary and also avoid Dairy

I watched it on Netflix. It was very interesting. Although I dont think I cud ever become a vegetarian, I am strongly thinking about ditching the dairy. Turns out its actually pretty bad for my health--PCOS'er.