How to defeat defeatism in running - advice please

BerryH

Bit of a long back story, so please bear with me.

I started running in 1996 to lose weight. It worked, and I entered 5Ks, 10Ks, relay triathlons then full triathlons to give me targets. They were slow but hey, I was building my distance every time.

Then I began to realise, particularly at the smaller and more competitive races, that I just wasn't getting faster and ended up near the back. I'm not even sure of my PBs as I've never been proud of them, but they're something like 37 minutes for an (albeit hilly) 5K and 1 hour 20 for a 10K.

The weight went back on and brought another stone with it.

I did the London Marathon for charity a couple of years ago and despite illness and injury (chesty cough and torn shoulder ligaments) I was certain I couldn't be any slower that 6 hours. I came home in 7 hours 12 minutes, slower than I could have walked the entire damn thing, even though I was doing run/walk intervals most of the way. They say it's fun at the back with all the costumed runners, but I can assure you it's bloody miserable when there are no energy gels or drinks left, the road is sticky and drunk spectators are weaving into your path.

I have devoured running books and magazines and sought the expertise of Ironman triathletes and age-group Marathon world champions, but all that has done is make me the slowest running expert you will ever meet.

I know I should be happy with my results, especially at my age, and even getting off the sofa makes me a winner over the majority of the population who don't. Yet I can't help but feel jealous of the new runners I see on MFP and elsewhere who absolutely storm through C25K, end up doing 25 minute 5K races and go on to finish a Marathon in 4.5 hours within a year.

I always follow a training plan, so what goes wrong? I think my current endeavour is probably the best illustration.

I have a place in the Royal Park half marathon this coming Sunday, which is always oversubscribed and hard to get into. I followed a rather marvellous training plan that had a long, slow run, a recovery run, intervals and a tempo run each week. It's the first plan I've followed where I haven't just plodded mindlessly at the same speed for each session and I was sure I'd cracked it.

Right on schedule, I entered a 10K on the weekend the plan told me to. It was off-road and hilly, but despite my fancy training within the first 1K I was right at the back of the running pack (there were a couple of walkers). I was delighted to slowly overtake a few runners as I went as they burnt out but I stayed at my optimal pace.

I finished in 1:19:48. just under my 1:20 target, with a sprint finish. But I had run to the best of my ability and was sore and tired for days afterwards, and desperately disappointed to have been so far back after trying so hard.

I was so dispirited, I've completely blown off my training since and haven't run more than an hour, and missed my scheduled longest runs of up to two hours. I don't know whether to attempt the half marathon on Sunday or to realise I've right royally screwed it up. There's a cut off time of 1:30 for the first 6 miles of so, after which they start opening the roads again.

Either way, I desperately need to get it together for my winter training. After applying eight times, I've finally got a ballot place in the London Marathon, also massively oversubscribed, and I seriously want to do it justice.

In summary I guess my questions are:
1. Do I attempt the half at the weekend even though I'm not properly prepared for the distance?
2. How do I stop defeatism getting in the way of my running goals?
3. How do I speed up given that I've tried speed training? Will weight loss make the difference?

Sorry about moaning on for so long :flowerforyou:

awkwwward

Step 1 - Don't let you get to yourself. You can reach all of your goals - no matter the age - if you don't stand in your own way.
Step 2 - Don't stand in the way of your body. As someone who has run a marathon, you should know better than anyone: overtraining and pushing your body beyond it's limits is the best way to cause long-term damage and grief.
Step 3- Don't hold yourself to past standards. When I was 5, I could get both feet behind my head and did ballet/gymnastics for hours a day. Now I can't fit in more than 30 minutes of yoga and can't quite get my feet behind my head. Doesn't mean I should give up just because I can't do what I use to anymore.

My advice: Pick a realistic running goal. Want a sub-25 5K? Train for it. Set levels - a sub 35 5K, then a sub 30 5K, then a sub 27 5K before your final goal. Work in increments with lots of goals you can hit along the way. Having a goal at the end - especially a goal to run "like you used to" just sets yourself up for failure. If you're ultimate goal is the London Marathon, set smaller race goals prior to that (5K, 10K, half, smaller/personal marathon, etc.). You can do this, you can get your speed up - just don't get in your own way!

BerryH

What inspiring and practical advice awkwwward, thank you so much

Dragonfly1996

That's a really great reply from Awkwwward - been having a defeatist moment myself last week so totally understand where ur coming from - feel better at the moment. We also have similar goals!! Not sure about Sunday though - if u haven't done a HM before I would go ahead - run/walk it, enjoy the atmosphere & experience & see how u get on but don't injure urself!! U may find the crowds help u along & it will give u a time to beat for ur next one. Good luck though with whatever u decide & congrats on getting into London (friend of mine also got in so may go down & support). :flowerforyou:

BackwoodsMom

As someone who was planning/training/hoping to run my first marathon last fall, I know your frustration. I overtrained a couple months before the marathon and stressed my ITB. Rest and back to square one! :-( I started running again consistently but slowly adding mileage. I'm up to running 3 - 4 times a week (5-6 miles each time, gradually increasing) and doing strength training 2 days, leaving one day for total rest. I really would like to run a marathon but realize I need to work up to it and ultimately, that's NOT my goal! My goal is to be healthy. Running, no matter how fast/far, 3 or 4 times a week is an accomplishment not many people can handle.

You MUST listen to your body and not overdo it. Don't set yourself up for failure. Go ahead and start the marathon but don't feel bad if you have to stop before the end. Relax and enjoy yourself. Otherwise, you won't keep with it!

BerryH

Do you mostly run alone or do you run/train with friends?

Mostly alone at the moment. I did have a Sunday running group which I dropped partly because I couldn't do a hard workout as well as my long, slow run in a weekend and partly because, yes, they improved far faster than me :blushing:

BerryH

That's a really great reply from Awkwwward - been having a defeatist moment myself last week so totally understand where ur coming from - feel better at the moment. We also have similar goals!! Not sure about Sunday though - if u haven't done a HM before I would go ahead - run/walk it, enjoy the atmosphere & experience & see how u get on but don't injure urself!! U may find the crowds help u along & it will give u a time to beat for ur next one. Good luck though with whatever u decide & congrats on getting into London (friend of mine also got in so may go down & support). :flowerforyou:

Thanks! I'm a bit worried about what to do if I drop out. Maybe I'll put my Oyster card in my bum bag and take the Tube to the finish if I collapse

That and the humiliation if they start pulling p the road barriers ahead of me, which is what happened in my Marathon :blushing:

BerryH

As someone who was planning/training/hoping to run my first marathon last fall, I know your frustration. I overtrained a couple months before the marathon and stressed my ITB. Rest and back to square one! :-( I started running again consistently but slowly adding mileage. I'm up to running 3 - 4 times a week (5-6 miles each time, gradually increasing) and doing strength training 2 days, leaving one day for total rest. I really would like to run a marathon but realize I need to work up to it and ultimately, that's NOT my goal! My goal is to be healthy. Running, no matter how fast/far, 3 or 4 times a week is an accomplishment not many people can handle.

You MUST listen to your body and not overdo it. Don't set yourself up for failure. Go ahead and start the marathon but don't feel bad if you have to stop before the end. Relax and enjoy yourself. Otherwise, you won't keep with it!

Great thoughts there, thanks

BerryH

Thinking on it, I have dropped out of more races than I care to think about, mostly 10Ks, a couple of halves (which I should have done on the run-up to my last pathetic attempt at the marathon), and a tri or two.

If nothing else I should get some gumption because it's such as waste of money and I'm struggling for cash at the moment!

Flyntiggr

find the right running buddy. Until a couple weeks ago, I had never run with anyone. I 'ran into' a old friend of mine on the trail one day, and he turned around and ran with me. it wasn't at all planned. He was in marathon taper, so slowing down to my pace was good for him, yet he still pushed me to go a little faster. I maintained my 3/1 interval, but dropped about 1:30 off each mile on that run (it was a 9 miler). We met up a couple weeks ago too, and did the same. Physically I was struggling - the weather was poopy, but I held on. Not as fast as the week before, but still faster than when I run alone.

Hang in there - I totally understand feeling like the turtle during every race.

Codefox

I say run that half this weekend. I just ran the Disney Wine & Dine half this past weekend and its a race I'd been looking forward to all year. For some strange reason, despite having my best 7 months of training of my life, I blew off the last 2 before the race and 2 weeks before the race I was sweating it. But my brother was going and I wasn't going to miss it. I'm not a fast runner even on my best days. End result? It was my slowest half ever (though only by ~1 minute) but so much better than I thought I'd do that I was overjoyed. But you know, I was prepared for a DNF, I really was. There's no shame in that. Try it. If you don't make it then you learned something for next time. I've been passed by 70 y/o dudes and guys pushing 3 kids in a stroller uphill. Whatever! They don't look down on me. Because when I pass some guy or girl on the course (not as frequent as the other way around but I do do it!) I never scoff at them. Just happy to see someone else out there who's obviously out there for themself because in the end that's all its about. You. (Or me, in my case. Its always about me...and beating my brother. Thank god he's slower than me)

I agree with the other people here too. I usually run alone but there's nothing like training with someone else to give you a boost. You push each other. Just enjoy the run!

Flyntiggr

I say run that half this weekend. I just ran the Disney Wine & Dine half this past weekend and its a race I'd been looking forward to all year. For some strange reason, despite having my best 7 months of training of my life, I blew off the last 2 before the race and 2 weeks before the race I was sweating it. But my brother was going and I wasn't going to miss it. I'm not a fast runner even on my best days. End result? It was my slowest half ever (though only by ~1 minute) but so much better than I thought I'd do that I was overjoyed. But you know, I was prepared for a DNF, I really was. There's no shame in that. Try it. If you don't make it then you learned something for next time. I've been passed by 70 y/o dudes and guys pushing 3 kids in a stroller uphill. Whatever! They don't look down on me. Because when I pass some guy or girl on the course (not as frequent as the other way around but I do do it!) I never scoff at them. Just happy to see someone else out there who's obviously out there for themself because in the end that's all its about. You. (Or me, in my case. Its always about me...and beating my brother. Thank god he's slower than me)

I agree with the other people here too. I usually run alone but there's nothing like training with someone else to give you a boost. You push each other. Just enjoy the run!

He's right! Most of the running community is not judgemental at all - Hell, you are out there running 13.1 miles while many people are sitting on their hineys having their morning pastry and coffee! :drinker:

calderst

Do you do HIIT training? That's been the best thing for helping me to improve my speed. I don't follow a specific plan but play around when I'm on the treadmill. I'll do a minute sprint/minute walk most of the time and see how fast I can get my sprints up to. This way, I'm competing with myself and improving my own times while listening to my body and not comparing to anyone else. When I used to have a running partner who was lots faster than me, we would plot out different landmarks (telephone pole, en of the sidewalk, etc) and have mini-races toward them. Since I was slower, I would get a headstart. I guess this was our own version of fartleks but they worked and were a blast!

Do you track your pace while you're running? If not, maybe try it on a training run (don't wait for the race!) that's shorter than your actual race distance... maybe figure out what you want your half marathon pace to be then try to run a 5K at that pace.
I use an app on my phone (runkeeper) to track mine but if you've plotted out the course, have a track nearby, or can use a treadmill, you can rely on a regular stopwatch or clock.

The important thing-- don't give up!! You may be running slower than some but think how many people out there aren't willing to run at all. Be proud of yourself for getting out there and doing these distances!!

BerryH

find the right running buddy. Until a couple weeks ago, I had never run with anyone. I 'ran into' a old friend of mine on the trail one day, and he turned around and ran with me. it wasn't at all planned. He was in marathon taper, so slowing down to my pace was good for him, yet he still pushed me to go a little faster. I maintained my 3/1 interval, but dropped about 1:30 off each mile on that run (it was a 9 miler). We met up a couple weeks ago too, and did the same. Physically I was struggling - the weather was poopy, but I held on. Not as fast as the week before, but still faster than when I run alone.

Hang in there - I totally understand feeling like the turtle during every race.

I think you're right there. I don't have any potential running buddies near me, but I might just rejoin that group and fit my training round their Sunday run, maybe do my LSR on Saturday and join them even if I'm pooped!

BerryH

I say run that half this weekend. I just ran the Disney Wine & Dine half this past weekend and its a race I'd been looking forward to all year. For some strange reason, despite having my best 7 months of training of my life, I blew off the last 2 before the race and 2 weeks before the race I was sweating it. But my brother was going and I wasn't going to miss it. I'm not a fast runner even on my best days. End result? It was my slowest half ever (though only by ~1 minute) but so much better than I thought I'd do that I was overjoyed. But you know, I was prepared for a DNF, I really was. There's no shame in that. Try it. If you don't make it then you learned something for next time. I've been passed by 70 y/o dudes and guys pushing 3 kids in a stroller uphill. Whatever! They don't look down on me. Because when I pass some guy or girl on the course (not as frequent as the other way around but I do do it!) I never scoff at them. Just happy to see someone else out there who's obviously out there for themself because in the end that's all its about. You. (Or me, in my case. Its always about me...and beating my brother. Thank god he's slower than me)

I agree with the other people here too. I usually run alone but there's nothing like training with someone else to give you a boost. You push each other. Just enjoy the run!

That's a great read, and perfect for my situation, thank you! I might just give that half a go.

Edit: After all, I know for a fact I can do the six miles in less than 1:30, and that I can walk another seven if the worst comes to the worst, AND the course will be much flatter than my 10K.

stubbysticks

Bump...as a newbie runner there is tons of great advice here. *stealing*

BerryH

Do you do HIIT training? That's been the best thing for helping me to improve my speed. I don't follow a specific plan but play around when I'm on the treadmill. I'll do a minute sprint/minute walk most of the time and see how fast I can get my sprints up to. This way, I'm competing with myself and improving my own times while listening to my body and not comparing to anyone else. When I used to have a running partner who was lots faster than me, we would plot out different landmarks (telephone pole, en of the sidewalk, etc) and have mini-races toward them. Since I was slower, I would get a headstart. I guess this was our own version of fartleks but they worked and were a blast!

Do you track your pace while you're running? If not, maybe try it on a training run (don't wait for the race!) that's shorter than your actual race distance... maybe figure out what you want your half marathon pace to be then try to run a 5K at that pace.
I use an app on my phone (runkeeper) to track mine but if you've plotted out the course, have a track nearby, or can use a treadmill, you can rely on a regular stopwatch or clock.

The important thing-- don't give up!! You may be running slower than some but think how many people out there aren't willing to run at all. Be proud of yourself for getting out there and doing these distances!!

Not HIIT specifically, but once a week I do intervals. Every other week they're HIIT-like (fast as I can possibly go for 30 seconds, recover for 60 seconds) and the remaining week they're a bit slower for 90 seconds, recover for 30. That hurts!

I've got Cardiotrainer on my phone, but that just gives you an average over the course, not taking into account walk breaks or losing the signal (which it does quite a bit on my rural routes). I have noticed my round the block time has gone down from close to 30 minutes to around 23. Yes, it's a big block!

Esterlily

BerryH,
Try changing your focus. It seems you are focusing on how other people do as compared to you. That is the biggest downer of all! If you focus on yourself, your progress--not your speed, but that you are out there exercising, you may see a very nice story!! If you run 1 or 2 miles, 2 -4 times weekly, then THROW YOURSELF a PARTY!!! That is outstanding!!!! Truly it is!!! Stop competing with other people and enjoy your running simply for the sake of being outside, exercising and becoming fit. Enjoy your scenery, go somewhere different on the weekends to run, a change of scenery can be inspiring. Whatever you do, just enjoy it and be proud of yourself. Your speed is not as important as the fact that you are out there doing it!! I have been inspired by your story to just keep at it!

I am in my first week of the C25K program and I will be repeating week one at least one more time! I weigh 295 pounds and was thrilled that today I ran for 45 SECONDS! That's not a typo! I briskly walked the entire workout routine today and managed to run for 45 seconds as well. That's nothing to be proud of IF I compare that to someone else, but I am Throwing Myself a Party today!! I've never worked out, never run, never exercised. This is HUGE FOR ME and I am proud of it. See the difference? I don't have to live up to other people's expectations to be proud of what I have done. I have a program, I am staying challenged and I am glad to be able to be out there giving it a go! I plan on repeating each week as necessary until I have worked up to a pace that is comfortable for me.

I think together, we can all reach our goals if we encourage each other and not compare ourselves to each other too much. It is always a great feeling to reach new goals and let others know, but if you run and you complete your run, post it! Be proud of it! No one has to realize how long it may have taken, the important thing is that you finished it. That inspires the rest of us to keep reaching for our goals. You are setting a wonderful example for the rest of us, just by being here, being open and showing us that you have struggles too.

I hope this inspires you to stop looking at other people's progress and remember that the only progress that really matters is the one that is changing YOUR life.

Esterliy

SueInAz

BerryH, your story could be mine. I'm a year older and so frustrated at my inability to run faster. It's definitely frustrating to watch the younger people on here just start running and breaking 25 minute 5K times. All the while, I'm struggling just be able to do 12 minute miles most of the time. I'll admit, I'm suffering a setback after donating blood a couple of weeks ago. My body just hasn't recovered yet and I'm working through the high heart rate issues that the loss of red blood cells has brought me. I can honestly say I won't be doing that again for a long time, which is unfortunate. I keep hoping that in a few weeks, I'll be able to run again without feeling like a complete failure every time because I'm not making any progress and every mile is a struggle. And before I get jumped on, I KNOW I'm not a failure but it's hard to keep up the motivation when every run only sheer determination has me even finishing and I only do so by walking more than running at the end. I am mostly just frustrated that I'm not progressing at all and have even gone backwards these past few weeks. I guess my point is, if I can keep pushing myself to follow my training schedule through all of this, I know you can, too. You are also definitely not alone.

Esterlily, thank you. Your post was definitely inspirational. Congrats to you and the progress you are making.

BerryH

Esterlily, how inspiring, you have made incredible progress and you should be very proud indeed! You're right, a sense of perspective is very important.

BerryH

sfoust, sorry you hear about you blood problems. Strangely enough when I gave blood a couple of weeks ago they just couldn't get a full pint out and had to abandon the donation. Hope you recover soon and get back up to speed. Well done for keeping it up despite feeling below par. Congratulations on your dedication.

rachie590

I don't know that I am qualified to give advice. I have been running for 5 years and haven't entered anything longer than a 10k yet. I just think what you are doing is so great and you have developed a life long healthy habit. I think you should try to focus on the great things you are doing. You don't seem like a quitter. Just keep going!

Dragonfly1996

Yes don't compare with other people - I made that mistake!! Compete with yourself!! You sound a bit more positive about Sunday after all these posts which is good. The HM I am doing next month also has the 1:30 cut off for halfway but I know I can do 10k in under that & so can u!!! Also I took 2:48 to do the GNR in 2010 & most if my friends who have done halves are around 2:00 but I could never try & compete with them! I did feel better once looked at the official times though as i came 24,000th out of 56,000 people so that was a boost!! I am hoping to beat that time this year but we will have to see!! :ohwell:
Take ur oyster card as u will know it's there if u need it but also may give u the boost to ignore it & carry on!! Is it on TV? If so will watch & cheer u on!! Good luck. :drinker:

SueInAz

sfoust, sorry you hear about you blood problems. Strangely enough when I gave blood a couple of weeks ago they just couldn't get a full pint out and had to abandon the donation. Hope you recover soon and get back up to speed. Well done for keeping it up despite feeling below par. Congratulations on your dedication.

Interesting, I have ALWAYS had that same problem. I usually have a vein roll or I just stop bleeding. This is the first time since my teens that I was able to quickly and easily give a full pint. I was SO excited that day. And then SO upset two days later when I went for a run and started realizing that there was a problem. :laugh:

BerryH

Aww, you're all so lovely you're making me :sad:

Another great perspective, rachie, thanks.

DF, before my plan went to pot, I was aiming for 2:45, so maybe I'll just give it a try. I looked at last year's results and loads of people came in at 3 hours and more, so great idea to check those out!

If nothing else, it will be a good baseline for my marathon training, which will include at least one more half :drinker:

crux

Do you or have you used a heart rate monitor while running? I know HRM's are boring but knowing the intensity I'm actually training to made all the difference to my running/training/planning...

From collapsing in a heap after most 10k's and running out of juice in half's, to running negative splits on a training half last Sunday.

It will not make any difference to your half this weekend, but for the London race in April you would have time to build a base and get faster 'if' you find training the heart rate % way is up your street.

As a start and only if your interested I recommend 'Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot' and then research Hadd method training.

BerryH

Crux, I have a Garmin that did have an HRM, but it stopped registering with the chest strap despite a new battery. In the end I found it quicker and more simple to use the phone app, plus one less thing to carry!

I had that book many, many moons ago, but sadly it's one more thing the ex got custody of along with the house. It's a bit of a miracle how slow you go at first then suddenly speed up, isn't it? Definitely might be worth revisiting.

MayMaydoesntrun

This has got to be one of the most uplifting forum topic I've ever read. The responses are so uplifting and inspirational! I wish you all the luck in the world, Berry, on your running!

BerryH

This has got to be one of the most uplifting forum topic I've ever read. The responses are so uplifting and inspirational! I wish you all the luck in the world, Berry, on your running!

Aren't they just! I love MFP for the friends I've made and inspiration and advice and I've received :flowerforyou: