Women and weight training

Drunkadelic

I want to lift and be nice and toned but I have big question How much should I be lifiting ? I have 5 pound weights I did P90X chest back and it seem to easy so I was wondering what weight should I go up to ? Do you think P90X counts as weight training? i kinda think it does since it has a lot of lifiting included

P90X is DEFINITELY weight training. You just have to up your weight. I do it so I can only do 10-15 reps of each exercise.

Beastette

Could you come to my gym and shout this out in the lobby? This entire thing? Thanks.

Hack squats, single leg deadlifts, lunges, and leg presses are what got many famous booties famous.

I like to ask the "I don't want to get MUSCLES" ladies: So, you have bones, fat, and muscle. Out of the three, which EXACTLY is your goal? Because bones+fat is what we should all be working toward, I guess?

bcattoes

Thank you. I am tired of people thinking women will bulk up if they lift.

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

Rae6503

Thank you. I am tired of people thinking women will bulk up if they lift.

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

But new muscle burns more calories, increases strength, improves health. Stronger women have been shown to live longer.

bcattoes

Thank you. I am tired of people thinking women will bulk up if they lift.

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

But new muscle burns more calories, increases strength, improves health. Stronger women have been shown to live longer.

A lot of things have been shown to improve health and make women live longer. I do most of them. And it's not that I'm not strong or don't have muscles. I do 100 squats, 100 lunges, 100 modified pushups, 100 tricep dips 5 days a week, plus resistance and a little dumbell work with my 10 lb weights. I believe all of that plus my 60 min a day of Zumba or hiking is going to keep me healthy and make me live longer. I don't like to lift heavy and don't believe I it's necessary.

TK421NotAtPost

Just don't follow the GFH (get fu@kin huge) strategy when lifting weights... In other words, your diet will dictate whether you will bulk into something large or just tone up and lose fat while minimizing muscle loss.

I'm 100% sure Eason goes heavy on a regular basis and she doesn't seem to look too bulky....

erzille

Thanks for sharing

joejccva71

LOL, photobucket removed the pic of the woman on roids. Not sure why.

joejccva71

Oh wait, nevermind. It's still up.

stroutman81

I have a couple of random responses to various replies in this thread.

Joe, you said:

"You cannot build new tissue unless you are taking in more calories (energy) than you are burning. It's been that way since ..well..forever! "

This is generally true for sure. But you can add muscle in the face of a deficit and I wouldn't call it muscle memory. Well in select instances I might call it muscle memory, for lack of a better term, when ex-athletes or ex-lifters reintroduced strength training back into the mix... but I don't think you were referring to this crowd.

I see it quite often in practice... especially with my heavier clients or my clients who've never really been exposed to true strength training.

Lyle wrote an awesome piece about this that you can find here:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Pay special attention to this part:

So consider the combination: we have a situation with overfat beginners where fat cells are very insulin resistant and essentially trying to push calories away. Now we throw training on that, not only sending a muscle building stimulus via training but increasing nutrient uptake into skeletal muscle through effects on skeletal muscle nutrient uptake/insulin sensitivity.

And what happens under those circumstances is exactly what you’d expect: the body appears to take calories out of fat cells and use them to build muscle. And this is effectively what is happening due to the combination of the above two factors.

Joe, you also said:

"Now you say "well I just started working out and I can see my muscles now!". This isn't NEW tissue. This is muscle memory."

I don't find this to be muscle memory or muscle growth or whatever you want to call it more often than not. The vast majority of time women start lifting weights while eating in a calorie deficit. So fat is being lost, and the resistance training is preserving the base of muscle they already have. This produces an epic optical illusion. They may not be growing muscle, but they sure are seeing a lot more of it as the fat levels minimize. As this visibility increases, it's often confused with muscle growth.

Joe, you also said:

"The benefits of the muscle glycogen being burned out is more than you actually realize for fat burning. "

It should be noted that tradition strength training... the heavy, lowish volume stuff... is not very glycogen demanding at all. I mean, here's a sample of a glycogen depletion workout from Lyle's UD2 book:

Monday:

Leg Press 3x15
Leg Curl 3x15
Chest Press 3x15
Row 3x15
Lateral Raise 2-3x15
Calf Raise - 3x15
Bicep Curl 2x15
Tricep Pushdown 2x15

After you get through all that volume, and that's a lot of volume, you'd go through it one more time. And the following day would be a nearly identical routine. All in conjunction with low carb days.

As you can see... most traditional strength training stuff... at least the stuff that women should be focusing on in order to optimize muscle preservation... isn't anywhere near that volume and by default, it's not going to deplete glycogen all that much.

Hiles, you asked:

"I do have one question for you. For people who are just starting out, would you recommend lifting heavy (for us weaklings that would be like, 10lbs and up) or light...like 5lbs or less...? "

It's important to note that the absolute weight lifted isn't all that important. It's how close that weight is to your maximum ability. And that's not to imply that we should be lifting maximally. But it does imply that we need to be at least somewhat proximal to maximum. It'll vary depending on the person in question and the muscle being trained.... but a rough estimate is the load should be at least 70-80% of your maximum ability in a given movement.

This also implies that 10 lbs might be sufficiently heavy for you in something like, say, shoulder presses. You'd know it if it kept you under, say, 12 reps or so with good form. But it's likely not going to be sufficiently heavy in an exercise that has better leverage and calls on more muscle to execute... say something like a goblet squat, romanian deadlift, row, or whatever. Meaning one weight isn't going to be universally appropriate for all movements.

stroutman81

I've thought about this a little more.

Sadly that lady (the first one not Jamie) isn't always what women are afraid of. Some women are afraid of any bulk, or the "hard" look. It's silly really and makes me sad (for them, not for myself). It's been a while but I've had women look at my arms in thinly veiled disgust at the gym.



Even THAT is "too bulky" for some.

Nice!

And you're exactly right. Some women are afraid of the hard look, which is fine. Different strokes for different folks. What they need to understand though is the hard look is more a product of taking body fat levels below a certain threshold than it is about building muscle.

stroutman81

Thank you. I am tired of people thinking women will bulk up if they lift.

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

But new muscle burns more calories, increases strength, improves health. Stronger women have been shown to live longer.

A lot of things have been shown to improve health and make women live longer. I do most of them. And it's not that I'm not strong or don't have muscles. I do 100 squats, 100 lunges, 100 modified pushups, 100 tricep dips 5 days a week, plus resistance and a little dumbell work with my 10 lb weights. I believe all of that plus my 60 min a day of Zumba or hiking is going to keep me healthy and make me live longer. I don't like to lift heavy and don't believe I it's necessary.

Nothing is necessary for improvement.

If you want to optimize your body composition, heavy resistance training is necessary. But again, that's not to say you can't improve your body composition without heavy resistance training.

Big difference.

fromaquasar

Every women should read this - http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

The girl eats and trains like a machine. For me personally I'd love to look like her.

fromaquasar

Every women should read this - http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

The girl eats and trains like a machine. For me personally I'd love to look like her.

cbear017

Thank you. I am tired of people thinking women will bulk up if they lift.

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

You can do two things with muscle: build them or let them atrophy. Toning is a myth, which it sounds like you already know by your use of quotations.

ABetterBalance

Thu 10/06/11 03:03 PMEvery women should read this - http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

The girl eats and trains like a machine. For me personally I'd love to look like her.

Thanks for sharing this. I loved the article

bcattoes

Thank you. I am tired of people thinking women will bulk up if they lift.

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

You can do two things with muscle: build them or let them atrophy. Toning is a myth, which it sounds like you already know by your use of quotations.

No, actually I think toning absolutely possible and not a myth at all. But apparently I misuse the term (I was schooled by another poster on this site). The proper term is "toned up" (according to the dictionary) but I don't like that so I use toned with quotes as qualifiers. I mean making the most of muscles I have. Getting and keeping them firm, but not building them up so that they are bulky. And by bulky I mean lumpy. I don't want much visible muscle, but I want my tummy flat and my arms not to flap when I wave. That, by my definition, is toned. The way Jillian Michales arms look in the ad that pops up every time I open MFP (I"ve never seen her in anything else) is "bulky" and what I want to avoid.

So, my semantics may be wrong, but I want to be toned and not bulky.

cbear017

Thu 10/06/11 03:03 PMEvery women should read this - http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

The girl eats and trains like a machine. For me personally I'd love to look like her.

Thanks for sharing this. I loved the article

Yup, this is great. Just the inspiration I need to hit the weights tonight--thank you!

Rae6503

Every women should read this - http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

The girl eats and trains like a machine. For me personally I'd love to look like her.

3000-4000 calories? NICE.

joejccva71

Thanks for the information Steve.

Bcattoes- Did you like my #8 in my original post? lol

bcattoes

Thanks for the information Steve.

Bcattoes- Did you like my #8 in my original post? lol

Ha ha! I'm not afraid of them. I just choose to avoid them. We'll just have to wait and see whose arteries hold out the longest.

Drunkadelic

Thanks for the information Steve.

Bcattoes- Did you like my #8 in my original post? lol

Ha ha! I'm not afraid of them. I just choose to avoid them. We'll just have to wait and see whose arteries hold out the longest.

I'm putting my money on Joe

Drunkadelic

Every women should read this - http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

The girl eats and trains like a machine. For me personally I'd love to look like her.

This article changed my life - it's why I eat Paleo and lift heavy.

Are you a nerd fitness user?

KiyaK

save

ninerbuff

"I don't wanna get all bulky n *kitten*"

I see this alot whether it be from emails here on MFP, co-workers, or friends on Facebook. This is a common thinking from alot of women that if they lift weights then they are going to get all bulky and big like this:




(Ok for those guys that think this is hot, please take your right hand, grab the back of your head, and push down hard enough so it slams on your desk)

Disclaimer: I assume no responsibility for any head injury you may receive based on the instruction above.

Moving on...

Ladies, unless you are taking a good amount of drugs you will not look like the woman (i think that's a woman?) above. There are a few rules you should follow and adhere to when it comes to how the human body works.

Rule #1: In order to grow, you have to consume more energy than you are burning.
Rule #2: When you are in denial, please re-read rule #1 over and over until it sinks.

You cannot build new tissue unless you are taking in more calories (energy) than you are burning. It's been that way since ..well..forever!

Now you say "well I just started working out and I can see my muscles now!". This isn't NEW tissue. This is muscle memory. Basically you are conditioning and defining up the muscle that you CURRENTLY have that was in hibernation underneath the fat that you carry. The same principle goes with men. Bodybuilders call this "newbie gains". Although they really aren't gains, they are just waking the muscles up that have been asleep for so very long.

Now some guys may argue this regarding the "newbie gains" term. Newbie gains can also be referred to as a bodybuilder or athlete that gains more muscle in their first year of weight training, than they would in let's say their 4th year. Of course this is only possible if they are eating a calorie surplus.

Moving on once again.

I recommend ALL women that are physically able to, LIFT WEIGHTS. The benefits of the muscle glycogen being burned out is more than you actually realize for fat burning. Sure you have to eat a calorie deficit to lose weight and burn fat, but by having glycogen burn and refeeds you are being more efficient in your burning process. Lyle McDonald explains this in alot more detail over at bodyrecomposition.com. So yes, lift weights people. Do it in addition to doing cardio, just don't OVERDO your training.

I recommend 3 days a week of weight training packed in with 2-3 days a week of cardiovascular training. Always leave yourself atleast ONE day of complete rest.

Of course my usual speel:

1. Monitor your TDEE calorie level which is composed of your BMR + TEA + TEF:
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expedenture
BMR = Basal Metabolic Rate
TEA = Thermal Effect of Activity
TEF = Thermal Effect of Feeding

2. Eat at a 500-1000 or a 20% calorie deficit under your TDEE calorie number to lose 1-2lbs per week.
3. Get 2-4 servings of fruits, 4-6 servings of veggies every day.
4. Drink plenty of water (or for your technical geeks...fluids)
5. Get 6-8 hours of sleep every night.
6. You don't have to eat clean food all the time to lose weight and be healthy.
7. You dont' have to eat 5-6 meals every 2-3 hours to "stoke the metabolic fire"
8. Don't be afraid of fats (including saturated fats) - Yes Bcattoes this one is for you too.
9. Don't overdo it in the gym.
10. Take a good multivitamin and fish oil.

See you soon.

-J

Lol, I couldn't even look that beefed without steroids.

ninerbuff

Thank you for this post! I have one question too. Can I do cardio and lifting in the same session? I usually do cardio first for 45 minutes and then lift.

Lift first, cardio last. Reserve your glycogen for strength not cardio.

kmbrooks15

OK, so here's a question from a "newbie" (been at it for two weeks, and yes, I am doing weights 3 days a week): for women, I've always heard that doing more reps at a lower weight is better than fewer reps at higher weights. Right now, I'm on the lowest weight on the machine (10 lbs.) for about half of the machines, and the next weight up (20 lbs.) for the rest (the shoulder and upper back stuff is moving more slowly than the biceps, triceps, and legs). But as this gets easier, do I up the weight or the reps?

I totally get what you're saying about not "gaining muscle". My daughter commented a couple of days ago: "Mom, you're getting muscles!" I told her I'd always had those muscles, but they were weak and buried under layers of fat!

ninerbuff

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

Then you're mistaken. It takes a lot to put on muscle. You have to OVERLOAD the muscle to cause hypertrophy. Then you have to feed it to grow. To add muscle means increasing calories. So if you are on a maintenance diet, the chances of gaining muscle, even if you lifted like a body builder are improbable. At this point then, you are "conditioning" the muscle (the real word for "toned").

Jeff92se

I think a lot of times it's simply a disconnect in the meaning of "bulk", For example, the OP speaks of not bulking up, then gives instruction on how to gain more muscle. Yet, my definition of "bulking up" is gaining more muscle. Personally, I don't want more muscle than I have. I just want the muscles I have to be "toned". This is why I use mostly body weight exercises for strength and never more than 10 lb weights. Because I don't want to bulk up with new muscle.

Then you're mistaken. It takes a lot to put on muscle. You have to OVERLOAD the muscle to cause hypertrophy. Then you have to feed it to grow. To add muscle means increasing calories. So if you are on a maintenance diet, the chances of gaining muscle, even if you lifted like a body builder are improbable. At this point then, you are "conditioning" the muscle (the real word for "toned").

Can you gain strength w/o gaining size? I would like to be stronger but not necessarily bigger. Or is that counter productive?

ninerbuff

Can you gain strength w/o gaining size? I would like to be stronger but not necessarily bigger. Or is that counter productive?

Doing ISOMETRIC lifts can make you stronger without having to get bigger. Take the bench press for example. Do this on a Smith Machine. Lower the bar to about midway on a full bench press for yourself and lock it in. Then load up the bar with more weight than you can push. Then lie on the bench and push as hard as you can for 20 seconds. Rest 20 sec and do it again. Repeat 5 times. You can do this for about any exercise, but be careful with back exercises.