So, health really isn't the focus here I take it. Quite disa

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Okay, in my short while as a poster (used to just browse) I've already experienced people encouraging people to maintain BMIs of 18.48 (lowest healthy weight if rounding) on less than 1500 calories.

Can you really call if a "naturally" low weight if you're on a weight loss website, counting your calories in the first place, and eating a weight loss amount whilst maintaining?

Some people should realize that there's more to life than the number on the scale. Eating disorders are very real and when you develop one you can no longer "listen to your body" because your body is wrong. It's confused, it slows down all metabolic function so that you don't die. Hunger cues are distorted and basically you've got to challenge yourself to do what is healthy despite what your body is telling you.

Seriously, telling people they are doing great MAINTAINING their weight, with exercise, on less than 1500 or maybe even 1400 calories a day is NOT healthy. I will use CAPS the emphasize my point. It's not shouting, it's emphasis, if you take offense my apologies.

I am just seriously saddened by the encouragement of unhealthy habits that exhibit signs of eating disorders. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Seajolly

I'm confused by your post, because eating 1400-1500 calories for women is perfectly healthy?

I do however agree that for most, a BMI of 18.5 is very difficult (and unnatural) to achieve. It'll take a lot of work to stay there for most.

deathstarclock

You're wasting your time. It's very hard to communicate with the majority of users in this community. There's a serious lack of common sense going around here.

tompetty

^I think she meant if you're exercising, your body isn't even getting those full 1400 calories for normal functions.

And, you have an excellent point.

dls06

Iti's up to the person to eat healthy calories or not.

kepete

Then EDUCATE people instead of complaining!

McKayMachina

MFP works on the idea that netting fewer than 1200 calories is where the trouble starts.

Personally, I go by the 10-calorie rule. Multiply your goal weight by 10 and eat that many calories. 205 would be 2050. 120 would be 1200. 90 = 900, etc. (Men add 600 calories to the end figure.)

You fail to realize that not all of us are of average height or average metabolism.

I've been losing safely at 1200 calories/day since January and my health has never been better! I'm sticking with this number permanently, as my ultimate goal is about 120 lbs. anyway.

Additionally, MFP says to NET 1200+. Anyone NOT eating their exercise calories is on their own (incorrect) interpretation. While incorrect, it may be sustainable and healthy for THEM as there are no hard-and-fast rules since EVERY body is different.

Don't be sad. You just have too strict an idea of what proper nutrition means. It's more fluid than that.

deathstarclock

Then EDUCATE people instead of complaining!

^^^Totally

Marig0ld

I'm confused by your post, because eating 1400-1500 calories for women is perfectly healthy?

I do however agree that for most, a BMI of 18.5 is very difficult (and unnatural) to achieve. It'll take a lot of work to stay there for most.

I think she meant that women are trying to maintain their weight at 1400-1500 calories a day. If you are trying to lose then it's perfectly reasonable.

Seajolly

^I think she meant if you're exercising, your body isn't even getting those full 1400 calories for normal functions.

And, you have an excellent point.

Ohh ok. That makes sense. A lot of people on here eat back their exercise calories though (myself included). I think with any website you get people who are smart and people who are going about things all wrong... Use your knowledge to educate, not tear people down. They might genuinely think they are being healthy!

saligator

I don't find your post offensive but i do thinks quite a general statement to make re: 1400- 1500 calories a day for women, etc.

BMI is seriously not always a good indicator of a healthy weight so we shouldn't rely on it so much. for example, it doesn't take into account the size of your frame, muscle mass/fat ratio or body shape which all have a big impact on your weight and how un/healthy that may be for you.

I do agree that we need to focus on health and the nutritional value of foods we consume, not jsut calories. And of course eating disorders are a very serious health risk and should not be encouraged BUT whether someone has an eating disorder is best left diagnosed by a health care professional. i'm not saying we should sit and do nothing if we are concerned by someone's behaviour, but simply express that concern in a non-judgemental way; and only after exploring the person's attitude's towards food and body image.

olivia3263

I kind of agree with you. I think for people who are overweight (bmi of 25 or higher) it can be difficult to listen to all the "slow and steady" advice because (and I know from experience) - you want that scale to go down, no matter what! When you reach a healthy BMI the urgency should slow down (along with the weight loss). I have a bmi of 23.9 and I'm perfectly happy with the way I look now. Sure I would love these last 10 or 15 pounds to come off, but I'm ok with them coming off slowly, and I'm focusing on other things, i.e improving fitness level, increasing running mileage, etc. I'm actually now trying to find what is the most number of calories I can eat to lose weight, not the least. It's fun I'm eating at maintenance this week before my half marathon next sunday for energy, and to also see if it is actually my maintenance level. Once I find it I plan on only decreasing it by 250 calories from here on in. I'm eating over 2000 on most days and I'm loving it. There's no reason for people to be eating so little (under 1500) when they have a healthy bmi, especially when they're exercising. Might be different for someone who's 5' or under (I'm 5'8) but still, shouldn't be such an urgency to lose the weight.

koosdel

I understand your point.

With all the de-toxes, cleanses, fad diets, fasts, x number day diets, MFPs irrational support of starvation diets, and miracle foods being promoted by certain members.. its a bit difficult to convince people that simply eating REAL food in proper amounts and moderate excersize is all they need.

Of course, excersize is hard and there aren't many celebrities promoting food.

hajjcomb

Wait, are you telling me that there is misinformation on the interwebs?!?!

As with anything in life, the information age has given people access to a massive amount of information. Some of it is good; some of it is even great and can be life changing. Some of it however is just wrong and even dangerous. That doesn't just apply to this website, or even just the Internet in general. There is plenty of good intended wayward advice in magazines and on television, too.

I think the responsibility lies without the individual to give due dilligence in researching areas such as health, nutrition, personal finance, etc.. If someone takes nutrition advice from a stranger over the Internet, who makes a living in a totally non-related field, well then i would say the onus is on the receiver, not the giver, of the bad info.

jenstanley13

I do not have an eating disorder...I was naturally thin until I was on Depo Provera for 5 + years in which I gained about 20 pounds over that time frame and then I had my daughter which added another 20 pounds. Since i was naturally thin (105 pounds average throughout high school) my parents never stressed the importance of exercise so I am having to not only lose weight but try to get in better shape physically since I have never been very active.

Now that you know my history and that I am not "ignoring" hunger signals, etc. My daily calorie goal is 1200 and most days I can accomplish this without ever feeling like I am starving, it is about making healthier food decisions; a filet of tilapia is much healthier and a lot less calories than a hamburger any day of the week and both are just as satisfying when complimented with the right sides. Yes I go over my calorie goal periodically and there are days that I do feel like I am starving, but those are usually days when I don't eat breakfast or bother with any snacks so of course my body is starving by the time I sit down and eat!

I am not discounting that people with an eating disorder don't know how or may not have the normal body signals of I'm hungry/full whatever but that is why this site gives you a calorie goal to try to stick with...over time if used correctly this would teach people (whether trying to lose or gain) of what they need to put in their bodies to meet that calorie goal. For some it may be eating more than they ever would and for some it means eating less and making healthier food choices.

ETA: I do eat back my exercise calories and once I do reach my goal weight I am hoping I have learned enough that I don't have to be as diligent about tracking every bite I eat because I will be eating healthier and more active in general...I think this is all a learning process!

CoachNYLA

Okay, in my short while as a poster (used to just browse) I've already experienced people encouraging people to maintain BMIs of 18.48 (lowest healthy weight if rounding) on less than 1500 calories.

Can you really call if a "naturally" low weight if you're on a weight loss website, counting your calories in the first place, and eating a weight loss amount whilst maintaining?

Some people should realize that there's more to life than the number on the scale. Eating disorders are very real and when you develop one you can no longer "listen to your body" because your body is wrong. It's confused, it slows down all metabolic function so that you don't die. Hunger cues are distorted and basically you've got to challenge yourself to do what is healthy despite what your body is telling you.

Seriously, telling people they are doing great MAINTAINING their weight, with exercise, on less than 1500 or maybe even 1400 calories a day is NOT healthy. I will use CAPS the emphasize my point. It's not shouting, it's emphasis, if you take offense my apologies.

I am just seriously saddened by the encouragement of unhealthy habits that exhibit signs of eating disorders. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Theres a saying that if you spot, you got it. I would rather be of help and give solutions myself. May you have a blessed day.

LTGPSA

Good morning, Everyone! (it's morning where I am) :flowerforyou:

I have been here almost 2 months and have yet to encounter any "encouragement" like what you've described (people encouraging people to maintain BMIs of 18.48). I would also agree that is a bit extreme.

I'm here to do my own thing for my own personal reasons and I'm not into extremism in any facet of life. So, although I can understand the logic behind your "rant", I wouldn't say all that come here fit that description of "So, health really isn't the focus here I take it." Health is exactly my focus! :happy:

For those who are marching to their own beat, they'll either figure it out eventually or not.

I wish everyone the best in their journey.

Peace ~ :flowerforyou:

SallieBeige

Sorry, I don't get your post at all.

You are judging a whole ethos here based on some figures, but I don't see that you have supported your argument with any evidence.

There are plenty of people here working under the guidance of dieticians - whose expert opinion would differ from yours.

I do not mean this in any confrontational way, but is it possible that your argument might not be entirely accurate?

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Okay...to clarify, I am referring to people maintaining on less than 1500, not losing on this amount. Exercising on top of that and their BMI is bordering underweight. I can't under any circumstance think of a justification for this. It isn't natural to maintain a super low weight on a weight loss calorie intake. I try to educate...that is my intention but when you have people who have no knowledge of human physiology encouraging the bad behaviors it is difficult to get through to them. It's like group-think, where the unhealthy people feed off one another.

I know BMI isn't perfect but for those on the low eve if the spectrum counting calories to get there it's usually not a naturally low weight. Eating less than what maintenance should be to stay at that wright further shows that it is not your body's ideal weight.

I am not "tearing" anyone down...it is my hope that this thread will create dialogue about what is healthy and therefore educate those who don't know any better but want to do this the healthy way.

Rae6503

Okay...to clarify, I am referring to people maintaining on less than 1500, not losing on this amount. Exercising on top of that and their BMI is bordering underweight. I can't under any circumstance think of a justification for this. It isn't natural to maintain a super low weight on a weight loss calorie intake. I try to educate...that is my intention but when you have people who have no knowledge of human physiology encouraging the bad behaviors it is difficult to get through to them. It's like group-think, where the unhealthy people feed off one another.

I know BMI isn't perfect but for those on the low eve if the spectrum counting calories to get there it's usually not a naturally low weight. Eating less than what maintenance should be to stay at that wright further shows that it is not your body's ideal weight.

I am not "tearing" anyone down...it is my hope that this thread will create dialogue about what is healthy and therefore educate those who don't know any better but want to do this the healthy way.

While I've seen some women that fit this description, there are not very many.

Sidesteal

I'm genuinely confused here OP. Is your issue that you are seeing people trying to recomp at deficit intakes, or is your issue that people are having unrealistic expectations in terms of how small/light/lean they should get, or is your issue that they just aren't eating enough calories?

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

I wasn't being entirel fair to MFP on the whole with this post. I was frustrated by one post in particular. The response to whichvi believe was indicative of unhealthiness being encouraged. No one else seemed to notice or care about someone maintaining 118 pounds, at 5'7, with exercise on lss than 1500 a day . Less than 1500 Calories for maintenance is unheard of for a young individual who exercises. I really shocked me.

My apologies for lashing out at mfp on geneal. That wasn't fair. I will say that this was not an isolated even though...just the first time I was upset enough to respond.

Rae6503

I'm 5'9", 150 and maintaining on 2300 calories a day. Most of my "friends" on maintenance also eat 2000ish calories a day (but I tend to pick friends who eat "normally").

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

My issue is people MAINTAINING low weights on weight loss calorie intakes and attempting to justify it by claiming they are natually thin.

It can happen by working out but eating only what mfp recommends for sedentary. It can happen from just having a low cal target in general. And it just saddens me that they woould rather maintain this unnaturallyblow weight while eating 1200 calories than to just get to a healthy weight for THEIR body...not simply at the lowest end of the bmi chart

McKayMachina

My issue is people MAINTAINING low weights on weight loss calorie intakes and attempting to justify it by claiming they are natually thin.

It can happen by working out but eating only what mfp recommends for sedentary. It can happen from just having a low cal target in general. And it just saddens me that they woould rather maintain this unnaturallyblow weight while eating 1200 calories than to just get to a healthy weight for THEIR body...not simply at the lowest end of the bmi chart

A healthy weight for a woman of my height, 5'2.5", (per this BMI chart: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/) is 100-140. My ultimate goal weight is 115-125. That's perfectly in the middle. That, according to the way we understand calories, nutrition, thermodynamics, weight loss, maintenance, etc., will leave me with a healthy caloric net of 1150 to 1250 calories per day. This is well below your arbitrary 1500 value.

Therefore, I think you're wrong.

As a side note: if I reach 115 and find that I continue to lose weight on a 1200 calorie diet, I will increase my net. But if I am able to maintain at that intake level, I intend to maintain it.

I'm curious as to why eating 1500 calories makes more sense than that.

McKayMachina

I wasn't being entirel fair to MFP on the whole with this post. I was frustrated by one post in particular. The response to whichvi believe was indicative of unhealthiness being encouraged. No one else seemed to notice or care about someone maintaining 118 pounds, at 5'7, with exercise on lss than 1500 a day . Less than 1500 Calories for maintenance is unheard of for a young individual who exercises. I really shocked me.

My apologies for lashing out at mfp on geneal. That wasn't fair. I will say that this was not an isolated even though...just the first time I was upset enough to respond.

Yeah, your title is totally erroneous now.

Also, you ought to have indicated that you were talking about people who don't eat their exercise calories, too. It's hugely different to have an INTAKE of 1200 calories while burning 600 a day than it is to NET 1200 calories while burning 600 a day.

If you can't tell, the VAST majority of us are here for weight loss AND overall health.

Next time send a PM.

SallieBeige

I am sorry, I still don't really get you.

Yes, I understand that in a mathematically, nutritionally ideal world there are a bunch of figures that say what is ideal - but this says nothing about the individual nor the circumstances, nor the reasons for the choices.

Weight trainers (who are resting not training), jockeys (who are resting not training), ballerinas, models, all need to maintain low fat ratios in order to keep with their careers. I acknowledge that it is a a choice - their choice and not my decision to interfere with.

I have a friend who is very underweight. He hates eating food. The act of chewing bores him. No I don't understand but that is simply him. Eating 1500 calories for him some days can be a real achievement.

Using another example, I drink wine. That's not ideal either. But, it is my choice - and I don't care what anyone says I am NOT giving it up.

We all make choices - some are scientifically more easy to explain than others .... but none of us are perfect, and very few of us are on the same path (luckily .... if we were, it would be a very crowded path! ... Cheers!:drinker: )

i_love_vinegar

I know this is a bit off topic, but I have a difficult time believing that you are earnestly worried and concerned for strangers online, who you probably don't know a thing about except their calorie intake/bmi levels.

My guess is you posted this with the intentions of receiving praise for "following the correct path," etc.

I want to add that there is nothing wrong with being proud and trying to educate people, but you will be disappointed if you expect everyone to do things your way.

If we were discussing people who really had problems, I would believe your concern. But you are claiming to be concerned about women who eat 1,400 calories per day and have an 18.5 bmi (which is generally considered healthy)? I do not buy it.

llkilgore

Okay...to clarify, I am referring to people maintaining on less than 1500, not losing on this amount. Exercising on top of that and their BMI is bordering underweight. I can't under any circumstance think of a justification for this. It isn't natural to maintain a super low weight on a weight loss calorie intake. I try to educate...that is my intention but when you have people who have no knowledge of human physiology encouraging the bad behaviors it is difficult to get through to them. It's like group-think, where the unhealthy people feed off one another.

I know BMI isn't perfect but for those on the low eve if the spectrum counting calories to get there it's usually not a naturally low weight. Eating less than what maintenance should be to stay at that wright further shows that it is not your body's ideal weight.

I guess I could be one of those people you are referring to, as I mentioned in one of yesterday's threads that my base maintenance calories were set to 1470. Sorry, but you can't assume that numbers you don't like have anything at all to do with group-think. I'm fully aware that the number is too low - my bathroom scale is telling me that - but it *IS* the number coughed up by MFP's software. Evidently it has something to do with my age, as the software gives me more to eat if I lie to it and tell it I'm 30 years younger than I am. I've already dealt with the problem by manually bumping up my calorie budget by 100 calories and will make further adjustments as necessary.

I am not "tearing" anyone down...it is my hope that this thread will create dialogue about what is healthy and therefore educate those who don't know any better but want to do this the healthy way.

I lost more than 50 pounds at no more than a pound per week (except water weight lost at the very beginning), I never hit a plateau, and I ended the process with a higher than predicted caloric need. I'll take that as a strong indication that I did it in the healthy way.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Consider this thread completely DONE. I don't need to be torn down by people either. Next time I will keep my comments and observations to myself.

Whatever you happen to think my intentions are you are probably very very very wrong about that. I spend copious amounts of time helping people who have/do suffer from eating disorders...all online and I've been doing it for 2 years.

So think what you want about me. I was disappointed that people are unaware of the damage they could be doing to their health and receiving encouragement from well meaning people who are just misinformed.

My apologies for making it public. I don't apologize for my views or my approach though; I strongly believe that the human body is much wiser than we are and trying to fit a certain mold when our body's are yelling NO is not going to make us any healthier (thinner maybe, but not healthier).

Again, sorry. i am done here.

LauraMarie37

I am sorry, I still don't really get you.

Yes, I understand that in a mathematically, nutritionally ideal world there are a bunch of figures that say what is ideal - but this says nothing about the individual nor the circumstances, nor the reasons for the choices.

Weight trainers (who are resting not training), jockeys (who are resting not training), ballerinas, models, all need to maintain low fat ratios in order to keep with their careers. I acknowledge that it is a a choice - their choice and not my decision to interfere with.

I have a friend who is very underweight. He hates eating food. The act of chewing bores him. No I don't understand but that is simply him. Eating 1500 calories for him some days can be a real achievement.

Using another example, I drink wine. That's not ideal either. But, it is my choice - and I don't care what anyone says I am NOT giving it up.

We all make choices - some are scientifically more easy to explain than others .... but none of us are perfect, and very few of us are on the same path (luckily .... if we were, it would be a very crowded path! ... Cheers!:drinker: )

I don't know... I sort of get the OP's point. Obviously, it's not the entire MFP community - there are many of us on here who eat a healthy number of calories (and who discovered the very idea of what a healthy number of calories for an active adult truly means on this very site). But I have noticed a higher percentage of "my goal body fat percentage is 13%" females on here recently, and it is a little frustrating. The poster walker who said the result of the Internet is tons and tons of information, much of it NOT accurate, has a good point. But it can be frustrating to see newbies getting some really unhealthy adivce.

Also, to address one of your specific points (about ballerinas and low body fat), as professional dancer with many friends in major ballet companies - many of the most successful dancers actually eat something like 2500-3000 calories a day. Of course, there are some with eating disorders, and this is a huge problem in the dance community, but eating disorders are much more prevalent among pre-professional students training to be dancers (your 12-18 year olds) than among the actual professionals. And many of the ones who had eating disorders as pre-professionals are the ones who didn't make it, because at some point, you shift from wanting to just LOOK nice to wanting to MOVE nice, and at that point, you realize you need to treat your body the same way as any other athlete - and train and fuel accordingly. The low body fat is just the result of doing any serious physical activity for 6-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, not necessarily a starvation ethos.