What is considered low carb???

MikeSEA

My argument was not a straw man as you did suggest that people could not live a healthy lifesyle on a zero carb diet. You apparently inferred that under your initial assumption that the body has some minimum requirement for CHO which we now both seem to know is incorrect.

I disagree with your premise that I suggested that the body needs a minimum amount of dietary carbs. As I never actually said that, or implied it, I think I'll call that unjustified inference on your part. Still a straw a man.

EDIT: I make a statement that the brain needs carbs, and then you make a statement that it needs glucose. Yet I'm completely incorrect? Did glucose suddenly not become a carb? If the process by which it's derived from protein isn't a synthesis, it hardly makes my statement completely incorrect.

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment as I'm going to continue to try and have a rational discussion with you given how little you apparently know. First it was your claim that the brain needs carbs and now you don't understand the difference between glucose and carbs. Glucose never was a carb, and this is not a sudden development. Maybe you should do a bit of homework on what these terms mean and how the body actually works before displaying your ignorance in a public forum?

Go ahead and argue that glucose isn't a sugar and therefore considered a carb. And since reading comprehension isn't your thing. I'll state once again that I made no such statement. I said the body has a need for carbs and that our brains use carbs for fuel. Both of which are true. If you wish to think link the two concepts, I won't fault you. I did put them right beside each other. It makes sense spatially, but if you're going to put words in my mouth at least do it correctly. Of course I made no mention of dietary carbs in any event.

Troll.

digitalsteel

Way to attack people who post decent information, and in no way shape or form did they attempt to attack you personally first. You MikeSEA need to do much in the way of learning how to argue your point.


Lets turn the focus to you personally....

"I don't think I've ever been really in shape, and it's not going to get easier as I get older."

"I'm 33. I work a desk job, play video games, read, and watch tv with my free time. I dislike sports and most outdoor activities for various reasons."

I'm also bound and determined to make it so that my health and body image reflect none of those facts.

Wow... You seem to be a real candidate for someone who should be giving advice.

MikeSEA

Way to attack people who post decent information, and in no way shape or form did they attempt to attack you personally first. You MikeSEA need to do much in the way of learning how to argue your point.

Get down off the cross, I never attacked you. Ok, I called you skippy, but it didn't seem to bother you at the time. Now you get all fluffy about it. Once again your statements seem to be predicated on the idea that you've posted decent information. Apparently we'll have to agree to disagree on that premise.

So do you often resort to telling people they "need to learn how to argue" instead of directly addressing their responses?


EDIT: LOL, let me just say that I love the fact that you bothered to post my profile information in a thread. I actually am very sorry (more sympathetic really) that you're so paranoid that you feel that you're being personally attacked.

If you'd like you can read and attack my blog posting about how I'm terrified that my husband will die young of weight related illness and I'm ultimately powerless to stop it. Way to go champ

RobynC79

Let's see here... Yes, Glucose is a type of carbohydrate - 'carbohydrates' include all sugars as well as complex carbohydrates - mono- di- and polysaccharides are grouped as 'carbohydrate'. It's not a mystery.

Yes, theoretically, it is entirely possible to function on a diet where for whatever reason, zero carbohydrates of any kind are consumed. However, 'zero' carb diets are almost impossible to achieve in reality, because almost all food stuffs contain some type of carbohydrates. Including meats, other proteins, fats, etc.

Are we having a credential-measuring contest? Because merely posting a list of articles, many of which are very out of date, several of which are clearly not peer-reviewed original research, and all of which to not come close to a thorough understanding of such an enormous topic as dietary needs and the effects of different diets, does not make you any more qualified to comment than anyone else. You state you have had 'success' with everyone you've helped but provide minimal details of the capacity in which this has occurred (and I don't count pasting a list of citations as helping anyone), but this is not particularly relevant to the original poster.

For the original poster - it seems the conventional wisdom is <100g per day of complex carbohydrate counts as low-carb. Bear in mind that sugars are also carbohydrates. There is minimal scientific support for either the thesis that high-carbohydrate diets are bad, or that low-carbohydrates are good, for a normal person with an otherwise balanced diet and health goals within normal bounds.

elfie9863

SERIOUSLY??? :grumble: This place is getting so snarky and snotty. I am really sick of it. If you don't agree with someone, so what? Just move on. Don't make yourself look like an *kitten* by constant bickering and name calling. Geesh.

lockef

Wow... You seem to be a real candidate for someone who should be giving advice.

Awesome ad hominem... textbook. Bravo!

digitalsteel

Wow... You seem to be a real candidate for someone who should be giving advice.

Awesome ad hominem... textbook. Bravo!

Yeah, that's not whats happening, there is a difference between arguing a claim and insulting someone. I do not tolerate the latter. Why are you so blind to the full spectrum of what I say.

MikeSEA

Wow... You seem to be a real candidate for someone who should be giving advice.

Awesome ad hominem... textbook. Bravo!

Yeah, that's not whats happening, there is a difference between arguing a claim and insulting someone. I do not tolerate the latter. Why are you so blind to the full spectrum of what I say.

No you're literally performing an ad hominem You're claiming that I have no right to give anyone advice based on personal, biographical information instead of actually address anything I've said. Similarly you think the time you've spent studying anything or any success you've had with your anecdotes means that people should trust what you have to say. Both are fallacious, and one's even petty.

digitalsteel

Nope, I was making a point, you obviously cant glean more than what the literal text means can you.

MikeSEA

Nope, I was making a point, you obviously cant glean more than what the literal text means can you.

You've just given the rhetorical equivalent of "I'm right, and you're wrong." An ad hominem attack (attack against the man) is one where you attack who the person is and avoid actually addressing their comments.

You "attacked" me as a person via my biographical info and haven't bothered to address my statements in these thread--effectively--other than to say "you're wrong" or "you need to learn how to argue."

bcattoes

All of this is so silly. A life without carbs would be pretty bleak. I can't imagine anyone that doesn't have a medical condition requiring it ever choosing to go totally without grains, vegetables and fruit. The human body can function without carbs. It can also function without eating protein. But it will function just fine while eating both. I doubt there's any research out there on the long term effects of totally giving up carbs because you'd never get enough study participants willing to stick to it. But since overall happiness has been proven to be a considerable factor in our health, my money would be on those that eat a well balanced diet consisting of both carbs and protein as those with the best overall health.

lockef

You "attacked" me as a person via my biographical info and haven't bothered to address my statements in these thread--effectively--other than to say "you're wrong" or "you need to learn how to argue."

I think you're suppose to post a longer wall of studies.








That's the only way you win.

rockerbabyy

You "attacked" me as a person via my biographical info and haven't bothered to address my statements in these thread--effectively--other than to say "you're wrong" or "you need to learn how to argue."

I think you're suppose to post a longer wall of studies.








That's the only way you win.

*like*

digitalsteel

This is retarded, you keep pulling bits and pieces of what I say out of context and take them to mean whatever you want. Do what you want, I'm done paying attention to this.

Lisa_222

This conversation is getting stupid. Carbs are converted to glucose. The more complex, the longer it takes, but it's all the same stuff. You can let your body absorb it slowly by eating a vegetable or quick by eating straight sugar. Same end product. It's just better for you to use the longer, complex food method, but your body isn't really that picky. It will take whatever it gets. Even protein and muscle tissue will be turned to glucose in pinch. I can't follow what the big argument is, but for general health, if you don't want yourself eating your own muscles, you need some carb. However our diets are pretty carb heavy to begin with and shaving it, even in half is probably still more than we require.

killagb

This is retarded, you keep pulling bits and pieces of what I say out of context and take them to mean whatever you want. Do what you want, I'm done paying attention to this.

It's ok, based on your profile text, you are a nerd that reads and wants to live a long time. :drinker:

SimplyFreckled

I don't know if this will be of help, but these are the journals I have read, I originally lumped them all together for someone else.

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Basu, T. K., and C. J. Schlorah. 1982. Vitamin C in Health and Disease. Westport, Conn.: Avi Publishing. Bode, A. M. 1997. “Metabolism of Vitamin C in Health and Disease.” Advanced Pharmacology. 38:21–47. Bravata, D. M., L. Sanders, J. Huang, et al. 2003. “Efficacy and Safety of Low-Carbohydrate Diets: A Systematic Review.” Journal of the American Medical Association. Apr 9;289(14):1837–50. Brehm, B. J., R. J. Seeley, S. R. Daniels, and D. A. D’Alessio. 2003. “A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women.” Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism. Apr;88(4):1617–23. Calle, E. E., and R. Kaaks. 2004. “Overweight, Obesity and Cancer: Epidemiological Evidence and Proposed Mechanisms.” Nature Reviews Cancer. Aug;4(8):579–91. Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) Expert Panel on Detection, Evaluation, and Treatment of High Blood Cholesterol in Adults. 2002. “(Adult Treatment Panel III) Final report.” Circulation. Dec 17;106(25):3143–3421.
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i admit to not reading this, but I had to quote it.

LowCarbForLife

Let's see here... Yes, Glucose is a type of carbohydrate - 'carbohydrates' include all sugars as well as complex carbohydrates - mono- di- and polysaccharides are grouped as 'carbohydrate'. It's not a mystery.

Yes, theoretically, it is entirely possible to function on a diet where for whatever reason, zero carbohydrates of any kind are consumed. However, 'zero' carb diets are almost impossible to achieve in reality, because almost all food stuffs contain some type of carbohydrates. Including meats, other proteins, fats, etc.

Are we having a credential-measuring contest? Because merely posting a list of articles, many of which are very out of date, several of which are clearly not peer-reviewed original research, and all of which to not come close to a thorough understanding of such an enormous topic as dietary needs and the effects of different diets, does not make you any more qualified to comment than anyone else. You state you have had 'success' with everyone you've helped but provide minimal details of the capacity in which this has occurred (and I don't count pasting a list of citations as helping anyone), but this is not particularly relevant to the original poster.

For the original poster - it seems the conventional wisdom is <100g per day of complex carbohydrate counts as low-carb. Bear in mind that sugars are also carbohydrates. There is minimal scientific support for either the thesis that high-carbohydrate diets are bad, or that low-carbohydrates are good, for a normal person with an otherwise balanced diet and health goals within normal bounds.

"Yes, Glucose is a type of carbohydrate - 'carbohydrates' include all sugars as well as complex carbohydrates - mono- di- and polysaccharides are grouped as 'carbohydrate'. It's not a mystery."

Glucose is a type of sugar. CHO is easily broken down by the body into the monosaccharide glucose (blood sugar). But proteins can be be converted to glucose as well through gluconeogenesis so are they sugars too?

"However, 'zero' carb diets are almost impossible to achieve in reality, because almost all food stuffs contain some type of carbohydrates. Including meats, other proteins, fats, etc. "

Zero carb is just the goal of the diet, and like all dietary goals it is hard to achieve perfectly because like you said, there are trace amounts of carbs in so many things. However, when people set out to be vegan for example, that is pretty hard to perfectly achieve as well as there are animal products or things made from animals in so many things. Just because you don't perfectly adhere to the goals of the diet doesn't make it 'impossible' to shoot for and I know for a fact that there is a sizable zero carb group of dieters out there.

Answer to a Letter to the Editor of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: http://www.ajcn.org/content/75/5/951.2.full
Is dietary carbohydrate essential for human nutrition?
"Although there is certainly no evidence from which to conclude that extreme restriction of dietary carbohydrate is harmless, I was surprised to find that there is similarly little evidence to conclude that extreme restriction of carbohydrate is harmful. In fact, the consequential breakdown of fat as a result of carbohydrate restriction may be beneficial in the treatment of obesity (7). Perhaps it is time to carefully examine the issue of whether carbohydrate is an essential component of human nutrition."

killagb

I don't know if this will be of help, but these are the journals I have read, I originally lumped them all together for someone else.

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i admit to not reading this, but I had to quote it.

Contrarian

I can do a somersault.