Fruit = fat?

eeebee

I am no nutritional expert (clearly!) and I seem to have confused myself now...:huh:

stroutman81

I am no nutritional expert (clearly!) and I seem to have confused myself now...:huh:

Give me a minute... have to meet with someone and then I'll try to shed some light.

eeebee

what ? !?!

You're kidding me, right?

Silverkittycat

I thought it was ok. I like bears.

Me too, but I don't want to look like one. :laugh:

Berries = Big Bear when title of topic is Fruit = Fat? I thought it was cute, thanks for the smile.

eeebee

I thought it was ok. I like bears.

Me too, but I don't want to look like one. :laugh:

Berries = Big Bear when title of topic is Fruit = Fat? I thought it was cute, thanks for the smile.

Agreed :bigsmile:

kschhr

I haven't read most of the posts.. but I read a few. Think of it like this: have you EVER heard of someone getting fat eating fruit? I personally believe that your body functions better and more efficiently on fruit/vegetable calories, which means you will therefore burn more during the day or during your workouts.

Example of this actually happening:
A guy ate nothing but potatoes (plus he said about 1teaspoon of canola or olive oil a day, and herbs) for two months. At the beginning he lost a lot of weight because they were so filling he only was able to get around I believe it was 1600 calories a day, but later he managed to down the entire 2200 calories and he was still losing weight.

In general, you KNOW your body will love fruit more than it would love, say, Oreos.. I wouldn't overthink the whole fructose thing.

stroutman81

So...say you hit your target calorie goal of 1,500 for example, spot-on.

But your sugar intake is DOUBLE your RDA......then will that then indirectly up the calories (ie would this sugar eventually turn into hidden calories)?

Okay...

So I'm guessing that you're thinking that if you consume "too much" sugar it'll wind up causing fat storage. Is that right?

Assuming that's the case, let's start with this.

Calories are always going to dictate whether you're gaining or losing weight. So if 1500 calories puts you in a calorie deficit, as it would for most folks, you could consume nothing but sugar and still lose weight. Obviously this wouldn't be optimal for health or body composition. I simply want to highlight that calories rule the direction your weight is going. At least in the long run.

If you're on a low carb diet and suddenly jack carb intake up, your weight will likely shoot up since each gram of carb totes 3 grams of water. But that would be acute water weight flux. I'm talking about long term tissue balance here.

Make sure you understand the above before moving on.

And keep in mind what I'm about to address is a very simplistic look at some complex biochemistry...

What happens if you eat nothing but carbs and are in a calorie surplus day in and day out? It takes a massive amount of carbohydrate intake to fill up their storage depots - those being the liver and muscles. Once they are filled though, the conversion of carbs to fat will begin (see de novo lipogenesis). In addition, since in this example, you're not consuming dietary fat, this conversion would be taking place regardless of the "fullness" of your carb stores. So in this case, yes, eating too many carbs can and will make you fat. But is it the carbs or is it the calories?

What happens if you eat nothing but carbs and are at calorie maintenance? Well, carb conversion to fat is likely to take place since there's still no incoming dietary fat. And you might lose some muscle since there's no dietary protein coming in the door to help maintain what you have. This would potentially lead to a repartitioning or reallocation of tissue where you're losing some muscle while gaining some fat due to the de novo lipogenesis. But overall, your weight would likely remain constant and any tissue gain or loss wouldn't be massive.

What happens if you eat nothing but carbs and are in a calorie deficit day in and day out? This is the crux of what trips most people up and this is the situation you're referring to.

Sure, in the acute term, directly after a meal or whatever, there might be some calories allocated to fat. But the nature of thermodynamics still dictate that when there's an energy shortage/deficit, said deficit must be made up for. If you body needs X number of calories and you feed it X less Y.... it still needs X in order to operate, generally speaking.

Put differently, the big glaring hole here is that calories matter. Looking at things in a vacuum tends to throw people off. They see the fact that carbs increase insulin. And insulin blunts fat burning and shuttles calories to fat cells. HOWEVER, and this is a huge caveat.... they forget to account for what happens the rest of the day.

What happens if, say, you need 2,000 calories per day. Yet, for breakfast, you scarf down 1,000 calories of sugar laden carbohydrate goodness? And after that, you don't eat anything the rest of the day? Sure, that one big meal spiked the hell out of insulin. It likely stored some fat in the process. And it turned off fat burning. But your body still needs 2,000 calories per day to run on. And if you're not going to provide those calories by eating more food, your body is going to turn to its existing stores to fuel the rest of the days energy needs.

So any calories that may have been shuttled to fat cells after your big breakfast are going to be pulled right back out once it comes time to fuel the remainder of your day's energy expenditure.

At the end of the day, it's all about controlling calories per your goals (weight maintenance, gain or loss). From there it's a matter of eating a blend of nutrients that makes sense. Covering the essentials is obviously important.... I'd label these as adequate protein and healthy fats along with at least a few servings of fibrous veggies. I'd prefer you throw in a couple of pieces of fruit to. And that's your baseline foundation. Once that foundation is accounted for, it's likely, depending on your daily calorie allotment, that you'll have additional calories to "use up."

And sure, there are some people, due to their genetics, level of obesity, insulin intolerances, exercise routines, lifestyles, etc who are going to want to limit carb intake. And that's fine... they simply don't use up the remaining calories with carbs. But for many folks, they can fill these calories with all sorts of starchy goodness. Heck, I eat what most people would consider garbage every single day because I have a sweet tooth, have no issues governing it, and enjoy eating that stuff. In the grand scheme, it's not going to make a lick of difference in terms of my level of body fat.

Does this help clear things up for you?

hockey7fan

For you sugar phobes... what's the top 3 reasons you fear it so much? Just curious.

Are you talking natural sugar like fruit or other sugars? I do eat fruit but I don't go overboard on it and I don't necessarily eat it every day.

I went on the Atkins plan in 2000 and dropped 145 pounds in 6 months. I ate berries, but not any other kinds of fruit. Then I got concerned because I was eating breakfast and not wanting to eat anything else for the rest of the day so I switched to Calorie King and started counting calories.

My BMR is 1972.55 so I was eating around 1500 to 1600 calories a day but I was gaining weight. I ate a lot more carbs and sugars. I tracked everything I ate and stayed within my calorie goal. Some days my calories were junk food, but I was below my goal so theoretically that should have been fine. If I didn't gain, I maintained most weeks. There were weeks with losses, but they would turn right back into a gain.

Then when I had my annual physical this year my fasting blood glucose tested high. Not high enough to be considered diabetic, but high. My doctor sent me to a dietician who works with diabetics. She put me on an eating plan where I need to limt carbs to between 15 and 30 grams per meal. And eliminate all processed foods and sugars. I also now have Celiac disease so I don't eat grains anyway any longer. She also gave me a 1500 calorie a day limit. I started July 30th with her plan and the weight started coming right off again.

A wise person said that calories in < calories out is arithmetic while our bodies really do calculus. For me, sugars including those from too much fruit trigger too much of an insulin response. With Celiac disease I don't absorb things the same way a normal body would.

I personally think that everyone's way of eating is just going to be different because everyone of us has different genetics. I have a friend who has to eat 6,000 calories a day just to maintain his 120 lb weight and he's 5'11". He has practically 0% body fat. He can't gain weight no matter how hard he tries. Me, I pretty much look at food and gain.

Each individual has to play around with their food intake to see what works best, what their body needs in the way of nutrients and what foods make them feel their healthiest and best.

VickiMitkins

Blueberries (I have 2 blueberry bushes at home on my windowsill)

windowsill blueberries???? Cool!

We just planted 4 in our backyard - can't wait until next year to harvest.

chris1529

For you sugar phobes... what's the top 3 reasons you fear it so much? Just curious.

Are you talking natural sugar like fruit or other sugars? I do eat fruit but I don't go overboard on it and I don't necessarily eat it every day.

I went on the Atkins plan in 2000 and dropped 145 pounds in 6 months. I ate berries, but not any other kinds of fruit. Then I got concerned because I was eating breakfast and not wanting to eat anything else for the rest of the day so I switched to Calorie King and started counting calories.

My BMR is 1972.55 so I was eating around 1500 to 1600 calories a day but I was gaining weight. I ate a lot more carbs and sugars. I tracked everything I ate and stayed within my calorie goal. Some days my calories were junk food, but I was below my goal so theoretically that should have been fine. If I didn't gain, I maintained most weeks. There were weeks with losses, but they would turn right back into a gain.

Then when I had my annual physical this year my fasting blood glucose tested high. Not high enough to be considered diabetic, but high. My doctor sent me to a dietician who works with diabetics. She put me on an eating plan where I need to limt carbs to between 15 and 30 grams per meal. And eliminate all processed foods and sugars. I also now have Celiac disease so I don't eat grains anyway any longer. She also gave me a 1500 calorie a day limit. I started July 30th with her plan and the weight started coming right off again.

A wise person said that calories in < calories out is arithmetic while our bodies really do calculus. For me, sugars including those from too much fruit trigger too much of an insulin response. With Celiac disease I don't absorb things the same way a normal body would.

I personally think that everyone's way of eating is just going to be different because everyone of us has different genetics. I have a friend who has to eat 6,000 calories a day just to maintain his 120 lb weight and he's 5'11". He has practically 0% body fat. He can't gain weight no matter how hard he tries. Me, I pretty much look at food and gain.

Each individual has to play around with their food intake to see what works best, what their body needs in the way of nutrients and what foods make them feel their healthiest and best.

I'm sorry to hear that about your glucose levels! If you don't mind me asking, what was your glucose number? I agree with you on everybody's body being different. What might work for one person, might not for another. One thing I have learned is that muscle is key to maintaining weight and they say that muscle is the fountain of youth for our bodys.

RangerSteve

For you sugar phobes... what's the top 3 reasons you fear it so much? Just curious.

Watch the lecture "Sugar, the bitter truth" on Youtube.

Already did. A lot of alarmism in that video. Check out my buddy Alan Aragon's response to that video. Dr. Lustig even chimes in for some debate in the comments section.

http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

^^^^^
Everyone please read that

RangerSteve

For you sugar phobes... what's the top 3 reasons you fear it so much? Just curious.

Are you talking natural sugar like fruit or other sugars? I do eat fruit but I don't go overboard on it and I don't necessarily eat it every day.

I went on the Atkins plan in 2000 and dropped 145 pounds in 6 months. I ate berries, but not any other kinds of fruit. Then I got concerned because I was eating breakfast and not wanting to eat anything else for the rest of the day so I switched to Calorie King and started counting calories.

My BMR is 1972.55 so I was eating around 1500 to 1600 calories a day but I was gaining weight. I ate a lot more carbs and sugars. I tracked everything I ate and stayed within my calorie goal. Some days my calories were junk food, but I was below my goal so theoretically that should have been fine. If I didn't gain, I maintained most weeks. There were weeks with losses, but they would turn right back into a gain.

Then when I had my annual physical this year my fasting blood glucose tested high. Not high enough to be considered diabetic, but high. My doctor sent me to a dietician who works with diabetics. She put me on an eating plan where I need to limt carbs to between 15 and 30 grams per meal. And eliminate all processed foods and sugars. I also now have Celiac disease so I don't eat grains anyway any longer. She also gave me a 1500 calorie a day limit. I started July 30th with her plan and the weight started coming right off again.

A wise person said that calories in < calories out is arithmetic while our bodies really do calculus. For me, sugars including those from too much fruit trigger too much of an insulin response. With Celiac disease I don't absorb things the same way a normal body would.

I personally think that everyone's way of eating is just going to be different because everyone of us has different genetics. I have a friend who has to eat 6,000 calories a day just to maintain his 120 lb weight and he's 5'11". He has practically 0% body fat. He can't gain weight no matter how hard he tries. Me, I pretty much look at food and gain.

Each individual has to play around with their food intake to see what works best, what their body needs in the way of nutrients and what foods make them feel their healthiest and best.

In the defense of thermodynamics, I don't think it was the calorie intake that was causing you to gain weight. As you said, you tested high for blood glucose and you found out you had celiacs. That alone is enough of an issue to make dietary changes have big results compared to the standard person who doesn't have either of those problems. For most people, the intake of fruits and grains isn't going to delay any sort of weight loss for them.

edit:

Also, the genetic argument is over-used. Genetic differences are a bell curve. There are always going to be people on the extreme ends who are blessed/screwed when it comes to genetics but the vast majority of people will fall somewhere on the graph where it's not going to make a huge amount of difference. Also, even those who are screwed with genetics can overcome those genetics by proper diet and exercise. There was a study done on the Amish in Lancaster PA to show this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26611180/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/fighting-fat-gene-takes---hours-day/#.TpiB2t53RG4

mynameisuntz

For you sugar phobes... what's the top 3 reasons you fear it so much? Just curious.

Watch the lecture "Sugar, the bitter truth" on Youtube.

Already did. A lot of alarmism in that video. Check out my buddy Alan Aragon's response to that video. Dr. Lustig even chimes in for some debate in the comments section.

http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

Thread: demolished.

*Everything in moderation*

Sugar is not INHERENTLY bad. If you eat too much of it, then it's bad. Same goes for anything, including fruits and vegetables. Hell if I eat too much BROCCOLI it's bad.

hockey7fan

For you sugar phobes... what's the top 3 reasons you fear it so much? Just curious.

Are you talking natural sugar like fruit or other sugars? I do eat fruit but I don't go overboard on it and I don't necessarily eat it every day.

I went on the Atkins plan in 2000 and dropped 145 pounds in 6 months. I ate berries, but not any other kinds of fruit. Then I got concerned because I was eating breakfast and not wanting to eat anything else for the rest of the day so I switched to Calorie King and started counting calories.

My BMR is 1972.55 so I was eating around 1500 to 1600 calories a day but I was gaining weight. I ate a lot more carbs and sugars. I tracked everything I ate and stayed within my calorie goal. Some days my calories were junk food, but I was below my goal so theoretically that should have been fine. If I didn't gain, I maintained most weeks. There were weeks with losses, but they would turn right back into a gain.

Then when I had my annual physical this year my fasting blood glucose tested high. Not high enough to be considered diabetic, but high. My doctor sent me to a dietician who works with diabetics. She put me on an eating plan where I need to limt carbs to between 15 and 30 grams per meal. And eliminate all processed foods and sugars. I also now have Celiac disease so I don't eat grains anyway any longer. She also gave me a 1500 calorie a day limit. I started July 30th with her plan and the weight started coming right off again.

A wise person said that calories in < calories out is arithmetic while our bodies really do calculus. For me, sugars including those from too much fruit trigger too much of an insulin response. With Celiac disease I don't absorb things the same way a normal body would.

I personally think that everyone's way of eating is just going to be different because everyone of us has different genetics. I have a friend who has to eat 6,000 calories a day just to maintain his 120 lb weight and he's 5'11". He has practically 0% body fat. He can't gain weight no matter how hard he tries. Me, I pretty much look at food and gain.

Each individual has to play around with their food intake to see what works best, what their body needs in the way of nutrients and what foods make them feel their healthiest and best.

I'm sorry to hear that about your glucose levels! If you don't mind me asking, what was your glucose number? I agree with you on everybody's body being different. What might work for one person, might not for another. One thing I have learned is that muscle is key to maintaining weight and they say that muscle is the fountain of youth for our bodys.

My fasting blood glucose level was 102. While that's not terribly high, it's high. And my doctor wanted to get it back into the normal range before it gets out of hand. I do not want to get on insulin ever.

chris1529

My grandma was diabetic. My father is diabetic and I had gestational diabetes in 2 of my 3 pregnancies! That is one of the reasons that I want to lose weight and get healthy. I don't ever want to be diabetic either! 102 is barely over the normal. If I'm not mistaken, 99 is the cut off BUT some doctors say that it should be no higher than 95. From 100-125 is actually considered pre-diabetes. I'm sure that with a healthy diet and exercise that you will have your numbers in range in no time! I worked for a doctor, very good doctor, and he said that exercise alone can reverse diabetes in some people! Does diabetes run in your family? I completely agree with you on the whole carb watching. I think that carbs play a huge part in weight loss.

Raf702

We all know fruit is good for us, lots of nutrients and vitamains, that is a given.

If most fruit = high sugar levels (albeit in fructose form, not processed), then surely high sugar levels = fattening?

So really, fruit is beneficial to our weight loss but it appears it can also be detrimental. Right or wrong?

A contradiction in nutritional terms if ever there was one...discuss.....

Fruits and others a like are calories period. Your body registers all food as calories through fats/protein/carbs. Sugar is a carb which equals calories, 4-calories to be exact. Eat ANY kind of fruit that you like, as long as the total caloric value of the fruit you consume doesn't go above your total calorie allowance for the day. But if your diabetic, same thing. You need to monitor the amount of carbs you consume since sugar is a carb.

Sidesteal

[/quote]

Eat ANY kind of fruit that you like, as long as the total caloric value of the fruit you consume doesn't go above your total calorie allowance for the day. [/quote]

This, and doing so as we speak

eeebee

Thanks for the in depth explanation Steve Troutman - your input has been greatly valued and most educational.

VeganGal84

False!

Fruit = healthy

(I'm speaking as a person who has no medical conditions that contradict this)

dennydifferent

What we tend to forget is that the fruit we eat nowadays has been bred over hundreds of years to be many times sweeter than its wild form. Anyone who has seen tiny, tiny wild strawberries will know they bear very little resemblance to those we buy or grow. Arguments about the "natural" human diet need to take this into account. Even if our ancestors did consume a lot of fruit, it would have been only in season- no fruit in the winter and little in the spring, it would not be anything like what we call fruit now, and there would have been far less variety.

Which isn't to say don't eat it, but at the same time don't kid yourself that all that the fruit we eat nowadays is "natural" and that therefore the sugar hit of several varieties of fruit every day is "natural". I doubt it is.

Bottom line though, if you're eating fruit and losing weight, don't change what you're doing. *shrug*