Is it really true that you can't gain muscle on a deficit ?

joejccva71

Protein biosynthesis and mucscle growth happens at its own rate regardless of caloric surplus or deficit, but there are tons of factors involved. Too many to get too in depth.
The maximum size of skeletal muscle you can have (without steroids) is directly related to the overall mass of your skeletal frame. The further you are from that maximum size, the easier it is to build muscle. The closer you are, the harder it is. The only reason you would need a calorie surplus is if you're already pretty big and trying to build more. Take, for instance, someone who breaks their leg. When they get the cast off the leg muscles are small and atrophied and have to be rehabilitated. I've never heard of people being prescribed a calorie surplus and crates of muscle milk to rebuild the muscles in your leg, nor is it likely that you will never be able to walk again if you're on a calorie deficit. That's just silly.
So what happens to all the protein you eat if you eat 1 calorie less than your maintenance calories? Does it magically vanish? Wouldn't you die from a cold since you could no longer produce antibodies? How much extra protein could you possibly get from a 100 calorie surplus? Enough to turn 450 grams of protein into muscle tissue? The math doesn't add up.
If you can't gain muscle on a 'modest' calorie deficit then you're doing something wrong. Yes, it will be a bit slower, but not as much as you might think.

New muscle tissue beyond someone's current body composition requires more energy to be taken in then burned. I'm not saying very minimal gains can't be made by someone that is morbidly obese or someone that is brand new to resistance training.

You ever see men at the gym that go there for months upon months, year after year and never get any bigger? Do you ever wonder why? If people could gain pounds of lean muscle mass on a calorie deficit then almost everyone in the gym would have very little bodyfat, be ripped and have loads of muscle mass. This is not the case.

Please do some real research about the subject before you start spreading false information.

Do you even know what protein biosynthesis means?

Yes I know what it means.

Do you know what "you cannot build new tissue beyond your current composition without energy" means?

(we can do this all day long..)

Then please describe.

Short version: The process in which cells build or manufacture proteins.

Long and hella boring version:

The term is sometimes used to refer only to protein translation but more often it refers to a multi-step process, beginning with amino acid synthesis and transcription of nuclear DNA into messenger RNA, which is then used as input for translation.

The cistron DNA is transcribed into a variety of RNA intermediates. The last version is used as a template in synthesis of a polypeptide chain. Proteins can often be synthesized directly from genes by translating mRNA. When a protein must be available on short notice or in large quantities, a protein precursor is produced. A proprotein is an inactive protein containing one or more inhibitory peptides that can be activated when the inhibitory sequence is removed by proteolysis during posttranslational modification. A preprotein is a form that contains a signal sequence (an N-terminal signal peptide) that specifies its insertion into or through membranes, i.e., targets them for secretion.[1] The signal peptide is cleaved off in the endoplasmic reticulum.[1] Preproproteins have both sequences (inhibitory and signal) still present.

For synthesis of protein, a succession of tRNA molecules charged with appropriate amino acids have to be brought together with an mRNA molecule and matched up by base-pairing through their anti-codons with each of its successive codons. The amino acids then have to be linked together to extend the growing protein chain, and the tRNAs, relieved of their burdens, have to be released. This whole complex of processes is carried out by a giant multimolecular machine, the ribosome, formed of two main chains of RNA, called ribosomal RNA (rRNA), and more than 50 different proteins. This molecular juggernaut latches onto the end of an mRNA molecule and then trundles along it, capturing loaded tRNA molecules and stitching together the amino acids they carry to form a new protein chain.[2]

Protein biosynthesis, although very similar, is different for prokaryotes and eukaryotes.

Amino acids are the monomers that are polymerized via condensation reactions to produce amino acid chain, and ultimately, functional proteins. Amino acid synthesis is the set of biochemical processes (metabolic pathways) that build the amino acids from carbon sources like glucose.

Many organisms have the ability to synthesize only a subset of the amino acids they need. Adult humans, for example, can synthesize 11 (alanine, arginine, asparagine, aspartic acid, cysteine, glutamic acid, glutamine, glycine, proline, serine, and tyrosine) of the 20 amino acids from their food as long as they are consuming the 9 (histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, trytophan, valine)essential amino acids

In transcription an mRNA chain is generated, with one strand of the DNA double helix in the genome as template. This strand is called the template strand. Transcription can be divided into 3 stages: Initiation, Elongation, and Termination, each regulated by a large number of proteins such as transcription factors and coactivators that ensure that the correct gene is transcribed.

The DNA strand is read in the 3' to 5' direction and the mRNA is transcribed in the 5' to 3' direction by the RNA polymerase.

Transcription occurs in the cell nucleus, where the DNA is held. The DNA structure of the cell is made up of two helixes made up of sugar and phosphate held together by the bases. The sugar and the phosphate are joined together by covalent bond. The DNA is "unzipped" by the enzyme helicase, leaving the single nucleotide chain open to be copied. RNA polymerase reads the DNA strand from 3-prime (3') end to the 5-prime (5') end, while it synthesizes a single strand of messenger RNA in the 5'-to-3' direction. The general RNA structure is very similar to the DNA structure, but in RNA the nucleotide uracil takes the place that thymine occupies in DNA. The single strand of mRNA leaves the nucleus through nuclear pores, and migrates into the cytoplasm.

The first product of transcription differs in prokaryotic cells from that of eukaryotic cells, as in prokaryotic cells the product is mRNA, which needs no post-transcriptional modification, whereas, in eukaryotic cells, the first product is called primary transcript, that needs post-transcriptional modification (capping with 7-methyl-guanosine, tailing with a poly A tail) to give hnRNA (heterophil nuclear RNA). hnRNA then undergoes splicing of introns (noncoding parts of the gene) via spliceosomes to produce the final mRNA.

[edit] TranslationMain article: Translation (biology)

Diagram showing the translation of mRNA and the synthesis of proteins by a ribosomeThe synthesis of proteins is known as translation. Translation occurs in the cytoplasm, where the ribosomes are located. Ribosomes are made of a small and large subunit that surround the mRNA. In translation, messenger RNA (mRNA) is decoded to produce a specific polypeptide according to the rules specified by the trinucleotide genetic code. This uses an mRNA sequence as a template to guide the synthesis of a chain of amino acids that form a protein. Translation proceeds in four phases: activation, initiation, elongation, and termination (all describing the growth of the amino acid chain, or polypeptide that is the product of translation).

In activation, the correct amino acid (AA) is joined to the correct transfer RNA (tRNA). While this is not, in the technical sense, a step in translation, it is required for translation to proceed. The AA is joined by its carboxyl group to the 3' OH of the tRNA by an ester bond. When the tRNA has an amino acid linked to it, it is termed "charged". Initiation involves the small subunit of the ribosome binding to 5' end of mRNA with the help of initiation factors (IF), other proteins that assist the process. Elongation occurs when the next aminoacyl-tRNA (charged tRNA) in line binds to the ribosome along with GTP and an elongation factor. Termination of the polypeptide happens when the A site of the ribosome faces a stop codon (UAA, UAG, or UGA). When this happens, no tRNA can recognize it, but releasing factor can recognize nonsense codons and causes the release of the polypeptide chain. The capacity of disabling or inhibiting translation in protein biosynthesis is used by some antibiotics such as anisomycin, cycloheximide, chloramphenicol, tetracycline, streptomycin, erythromycin, puromycin, etc.




Do you have any other questions for me counselor?

jg627

I was asking if you knew what it meant, not if you knew how to copy and paste. If cells didn't have the ability to synthesize other cells, then evolution couldn't have taken place. And to answer your question, fat is stored energy...
Now, if you'll excuse me, this fat guy is going to go do some squats and deadlifts.

joejccva71

I was asking if you knew what it meant, not if you knew how to copy and paste. If cells didn't have the ability to synthesize other cells, then evolution couldn't have taken place. And to answer your question, fat is stored energy...
Now, if you'll excuse me, this fat guy is going to go do some squats and deadlifts.

Oh is that what you wanted....oops. Do I really have to type this whole thing out?

seanbrown123

do alot of high rep weights i play rugby at international level and they say to do lots of high rep weights to help burn the fat but also to increase muscle and get you ripped i also advise using supplments as i found they help

give me a add or follow twitter : Seanbrown101

seanbrown123

do alot of high rep weights i play rugby at international level and they say to do lots of high rep weights to help burn the fat but also to increase muscle and get you ripped i also advise using supplments as i found they help

give me a add or follow twitter : Seanbrown101

PB67

do alot of high rep weights i play rugby at international level and they say to do lots of high rep weights to help burn the fat but also to increase muscle and get you ripped i also advise using supplments as i found they help

Shhh. Grownups are talking.

If cells didn't have the ability to synthesize other cells, then evolution couldn't have taken place.

Nobody is claiming that muscle protein synthesis doesn't occur. What you're conveniently ignoring is the fact that muscle protein breakdown is also occurring. In order for the former to outpace the latter, you must have a caloric surplus.

jg627

do alot of high rep weights i play rugby at international level and they say to do lots of high rep weights to help burn the fat but also to increase muscle and get you ripped i also advise using supplments as i found they help

Shhh. Grownups are talking.

If cells didn't have the ability to synthesize other cells, then evolution couldn't have taken place.

Nobody is claiming that muscle protein synthesis doesn't occur. What you're conveniently ignoring is the fact that muscle protein breakdown is also occurring. In order for the former to outpace the latter, you must have a caloric surplus.

Then please explain why I am outpacing my partner who is on the same strength trainingand regimen as I am, same height as I am, started the same time I did, but I am on a caloric deficit and he is not.
Discouraging people from joining your exclusive club because they are fat is not cool.

PB67

do alot of high rep weights i play rugby at international level and they say to do lots of high rep weights to help burn the fat but also to increase muscle and get you ripped i also advise using supplments as i found they help

Shhh. Grownups are talking.

If cells didn't have the ability to synthesize other cells, then evolution couldn't have taken place.

Nobody is claiming that muscle protein synthesis doesn't occur. What you're conveniently ignoring is the fact that muscle protein breakdown is also occurring. In order for the former to outpace the latter, you must have a caloric surplus.

Then please explain why I am outpacing my partner who is on the same strength trainingand regimen as I am, same height as I am, started the same time I did, but I am on a caloric deficit and he is not.

Define what you mean by "outpacing" and how, specifically, you are measuring it.

Discouraging people from joining your exclusive club because they are fat is not cool.

LOLWUT?

jg627

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle. There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

PB67

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

jg627

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

PBJunkie

you can either decide to go on a calorie surplus and build muscle (which is very hard) then go on a cut (defecit) and burn the fat.
or you can just go on a defecit now, lose the weight then build the muscle afterwards. either way, to lose the weight you have to go on a defecit.

I do not agree.

People thinking they are experts *sigh*

You call it a bulk and cut cycle...

PB67

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

What are you going on about?

Please read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

jg627

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

What are you going on about?

Please read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Now we're posting links. I'm going to officially end this by saying that's what Hittler would do.
To the OP, if strength training makes you feel good, do it. Forget what people say to discourage you. Squat strong.

PBJunkie

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

What are you going on about?

Please read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Irrelevant to the tread as the original poster asked whether it is possible to gain muscle being on a deficit, a body recomp requires to be above your maintenance level on workout days and lower on your rest days which makes your argument irrelevant. Though I have to give you credit as the body recomp is the best way to gain muscle while losing fat, but not recommended for beginners as they tend to overestimate their calorie needs which only ends in fat gain.

joejccva71

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

What are you going on about?

Please read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Now we're posting links. I'm going to officially end this by saying that's what Hittler would do.
To the OP, if strength training makes you feel good, do it. Forget what people say to discourage you. Squat strong.

Can you please stop with your trolling efforts?

There is no possible way that you are growing and building as much muscle on a calorie deficit as someone who is on a surplus. Not in a million years.

Like I have stated before, and will state again in case you missed it.

4 ways to build new muscle tissue:

1. Newbie gains - Minimal muscle tissue is built upon someone new to lifting or is re-entering lifting after a long break.

2. Someone who is morbidly obese and is using fat stores for energy (calories) - Still MINIMAL gains

3. Steroids

4. Calorie Surplus


Sorry to bust your bubble but other than the 4 options mentioned above, it just doesn't, can't, nor won't happen. If you are somewhat relatively lean you WILL NOT build new muscle tissue without eating more calories then you are burning.

What do we need to do to help you understand? I seriously want to help you cause you're thoroughly confused.

PBJunkie

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

What are you going on about?

Please read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Now we're posting links. I'm going to officially end this by saying that's what Hittler would do.
To the OP, if strength training makes you feel good, do it. Forget what people say to discourage you. Squat strong.

Can you please stop with your trolling efforts?

There is no possible way that you are growing and building as much muscle on a calorie deficit as someone who is on a surplus. Not in a million years.

Like I have stated before, and will state again in case you missed it.

4 ways to build new muscle tissue:

1. Newbie gains - Minimal muscle tissue is built upon someone new to lifting or is re-entering lifting after a long break.

2. Someone who is morbidly obese and is using fat stores for energy (calories) - Still MINIMAL gains

3. Steroids

4. Calorie Surplus


Sorry to bust your bubble but other than the 4 options mentioned above, it just doesn't, can't, nor won't happen. If you are somewhat relatively lean you WILL NOT build new muscle tissue without eating more calories then you are burning.

What do we need to do to help you understand? I seriously want to help you cause you're thoroughly confused.

This^. well summarized and I can validate this...end of thread

JennW130

ive read that you cant gain muscle while on a deficit, but the muscle definition your seeing now is probably due to your losing the fat and you can now see the muscle.

JennW130

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

What are you going on about?

Please read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Now we're posting links. I'm going to officially end this by saying that's what Hittler would do.
To the OP, if strength training makes you feel good, do it. Forget what people say to discourage you. Squat strong.

Can you please stop with your trolling efforts?

There is no possible way that you are growing and building as much muscle on a calorie deficit as someone who is on a surplus. Not in a million years.

Like I have stated before, and will state again in case you missed it.

4 ways to build new muscle tissue:

1. Newbie gains - Minimal muscle tissue is built upon someone new to lifting or is re-entering lifting after a long break.

2. Someone who is morbidly obese and is using fat stores for energy (calories) - Still MINIMAL gains

3. Steroids

4. Calorie Surplus


Sorry to bust your bubble but other than the 4 options mentioned above, it just doesn't, can't, nor won't happen. If you are somewhat relatively lean you WILL NOT build new muscle tissue without eating more calories then you are burning.

What do we need to do to help you understand? I seriously want to help you cause you're thoroughly confused.

This^. well summarized and I can validate this...end of thread

haha sorry i just continued it.

jg627

Do you train? Are you familiar with progressive loading? If you are gaining strength, then you are gaining muscle.

Yes, yes, and not necessarily.

Are you familiar with neural gains? Rate coding?

There are also ways to measure bodyfat percentage if you don't trust gaining strength alone.

All of which are flawed.

Maybe if it were the first month or two and I was doing high reps, you might be on to something.

What are you going on about?

Please read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Now we're posting links. I'm going to officially end this by saying that's what Hittler would do.
To the OP, if strength training makes you feel good, do it. Forget what people say to discourage you. Squat strong.

Can you please stop with your trolling efforts?

There is no possible way that you are growing and building as much muscle on a calorie deficit as someone who is on a surplus. Not in a million years.

Like I have stated before, and will state again in case you missed it.

4 ways to build new muscle tissue:

1. Newbie gains - Minimal muscle tissue is built upon someone new to lifting or is re-entering lifting after a long break.

2. Someone who is morbidly obese and is using fat stores for energy (calories) - Still MINIMAL gains

3. Steroids

4. Calorie Surplus


Sorry to bust your bubble but other than the 4 options mentioned above, it just doesn't, can't, nor won't happen. If you are somewhat relatively lean you WILL NOT build new muscle tissue without eating more calories then you are burning.

What do we need to do to help you understand? I seriously want to help you cause you're thoroughly confused.

Actually it was a joke, not a trolling effort, though I didn't expect everyone to get it. If you read blogs a lot maybe you got a chuckle.