"Starvation Mode"

Alloranx

I gain weight when I don't eat enough. So, call me an idiot, tell me I'm stupid or whatever... but, I know my body and I know that I gain weight.

I'm not calling you stupid. But you are incorrect to suggest that the only possible explanation for that weight gain is that you "aren't eating enough." PB67 gave a very reasonable alternative explanation: your daily activity which is *not* exercise, including such things as fidgeting, shifting positions, walking from place to place in your house or work, typing, bending over to pick stuff up, working in the yard, etc. may actually have decreased when you decreased your calories without you even knowing it. It is not possible to keep track of all that stuff. Your regular exercise may have varied in intensity too, even if it was the same routines and it felt the same to you. There are too many variables involved for you to be able to say that "eating too little" is the sole cause of your weight gain. You may think you know your body better than anyone else, and in a sense, that's true. Even if it's true, there is a whole lot about your body that you can't possibly know without doing a lot of complicated and expensive tests to measure it.

Another issue is that you have no idea what the composition of that weight gain is. Is it fat? Water? Muscle? You assume it's fat, but you don't really know, do you?

I think it is ignorant of people to assume that just because something works for YOU it'll work for EVERYONE.

I think it's arrogant of you to assume that scientists are so stupid as to not consider the variability among individuals. However, it doesn't matter who you are: thermodynamics applies equally to everyone, and indeed, to every situation in the universe. There is a reason why you gained weight when you decreased your calorie intake, and it isn't that you are just eating less. Something else changed that caused you expenditure to go down *even further* than your calorie intake did. Otherwise it is impossible that you could gain weight. Either your BMR went down, you are exercising less, you are retaining water, you are building muscle (unlikely for the amount of weight gain you said) or you are eating more than you think

This should be intuitively obvious to you, no scientific studies required: If your TDEE is way above your calorie intake, why would your body store food calories as either fat or muscle? That would be a profoundly stupid thing for your body to do (and I would personally ask God for a refund): what it should in fact be doing is pulling energy from your stores to make up the difference between your intake and the TDEE. If it does store your food calories, then that only increases the deficit in what is needed to keep your body running. This, to me, would indicate not that your body is a "unique and beautiful snowflake," but that you have a metabolic disease.

So how else can we explain this? How about that your TDEE is actually lower than you think it is? Doesn't that seem like a more likely explanation?

I know that there are people out there who consume 1200 calories a day, workout like crazy and are losing weight. If *I* did it, I know I would gain weight.

No, you just suspect that you would gain weight. If you haven't tried it, you don't know.

Just like I can eat carbs all day, everyday and don't have any issues with them but other people look at a piece of bread and gain weight. Ditto to sodium - sodium rarely affects me whereas other people have horrible side effects of it.

No one has horrible side effects from sodium. Sodium is absolutely essential for life, if you cut it out entirely, you will die, 100%. Some people just have to limit sodium because they have diseases that make higher levels of it dangerous or uncomfortable (for example, it can cause ankle swelling).

Likewise, no one gains weight from having carbs. First off, having some carbs is completely unavoidable, no one eats zero carbs unless they're fasting. Second, they gain weight because they binge on carbs and go over their daily energy expenditure.

I personally do not care what study you can find that will disagree with me nor do I care about the science behind it all. After almost 2 years on this journey, *I* know MY body and *I* know what works and what doesn't work for me.

So your two years of experimenting with dieting invalidates the billions of hours of work by hundreds of thousands of our species' brightest thinkers for the last several hundred years to understand thermodynamics, conservation of matter and energy, metabolism and the workings of the human body? Wow.

If you insist, though I suggest you take me up on a challenge: do a 3 day water fast and see if you gain weight. Do your own experiment if you don't trust any of those stupid scientists. This will take a lot of variables out. You will have 0 calorie intake for three days. If you do gain weight, I will never say another word on this forum about starvation mode, and I will apologize for spreading misinformation, to you and everyone. Also, I will turn you in to the government for being a mutant that can do photosynthesis :noway:

Weigh yourself one morning before breakfast to get a baseline (ideally after you go to restroom). Start the fast that same evening after dinner, and after that point, you can have nothing but water, and a multivitamin, if you like (and of course any other medicines your doctor has prescribed). Weigh yourself on the next three mornings right after you get up, and post the results. We'll see if I eat crow. I'll even do it with you, and post my results too, if you like. I've done 5 and even 7 day fasts before with no trouble, this one will be easy.

NeonNikki

I'm still confused....

So did the chicken come first? or the egg...

suzieduh

I'm still confused....

So did the chicken come first? or the egg...

the egg because it had no carbs:bigsmile:

teeley

I like this thread, lots of info to sort through...I think I may do the fast too...

MrsJax11

Thanks for the post. My calorie intake usually comes in abuout 300-400 under the magic 1200 and I was worried about this "starvation mode" but I'm good now thanks to your post. However I do find that the calories I am consuming seem to be "empty" and my sodium intake is way too high. Can you suggest any really fast on the go snacks with more of the nutrients I need?

I keep a pre-measured tiny container of almonds in my purse, and sometimes and apple, orange,or banana. Those work great in an emergency. Also, I like greek yogurt -- even the premixed kind is sweetened with honey, fruit, or cane sugar, so it isn't as sugary as regular.

ou8aslug

As a new dieter but a long time scientist - I found that the tiniest things add up. Those tiny things see to sneak under the calorie radar and undermine that amazing low number you see in green at the bottom of your food screen.

Human metabolism is extremely complicated. Some of the variables include hormones and other complicated biochemistry. very simply - most people think if you start by cuttin calories and intake - you will see instant results because you are goin at it two-fold -THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE....you have no idea how long it took you to gain that weight - we guess what - it may take you twice as long and you might have to work twice as hard to lose it because your body system has changed the way it works....

Bottom line - just stop shoving food in and workout at SOMETHING until your heart is racing a little and you begin to sweat - two signs you are using energy!! Keep at this and you will see results - PERIOD!!

chevy88grl

I gain weight when I don't eat enough. So, call me an idiot, tell me I'm stupid or whatever... but, I know my body and I know that I gain weight.

I'm not calling you stupid. But you are incorrect to suggest that the only possible explanation for that weight gain is that you "aren't eating enough." PB67 gave a very reasonable alternative explanation: your daily activity which is *not* exercise, including such things as fidgeting, shifting positions, walking from place to place in your house or work, typing, bending over to pick stuff up, working in the yard, etc. may actually have decreased when you decreased your calories without you even knowing it. It is not possible to keep track of all that stuff. Your regular exercise may have varied in intensity too, even if it was the same routines and it felt the same to you. There are too many variables involved for you to be able to say that "eating too little" is the sole cause of your weight gain. You may think you know your body better than anyone else, and in a sense, that's true. Even if it's true, there is a whole lot about your body that you can't possibly know without doing a lot of complicated and expensive tests to measure it.

Another issue is that you have no idea what the composition of that weight gain is. Is it fat? Water? Muscle? You assume it's fat, but you don't really know, do you?

I think it is ignorant of people to assume that just because something works for YOU it'll work for EVERYONE.

I think it's arrogant of you to assume that scientists are so stupid as to not consider the variability among individuals. However, it doesn't matter who you are: thermodynamics applies equally to everyone, and indeed, to every situation in the universe. There is a reason why you gained weight when you decreased your calorie intake, and it isn't that you are just eating less. Something else changed that caused you expenditure to go down *even further* than your calorie intake did. Otherwise it is impossible that you could gain weight. Either your BMR went down, you are exercising less, you are retaining water, you are building muscle (unlikely for the amount of weight gain you said) or you are eating more than you think

This should be intuitively obvious to you, no scientific studies required: If your TDEE is way above your calorie intake, why would your body store food calories as either fat or muscle? That would be a profoundly stupid thing for your body to do (and I would personally ask God for a refund): what it should in fact be doing is pulling energy from your stores to make up the difference between your intake and the TDEE. If it does store your food calories, then that only increases the deficit in what is needed to keep your body running. This, to me, would indicate not that your body is a "unique and beautiful snowflake," but that you have a metabolic disease.

So how else can we explain this? How about that your TDEE is actually lower than you think it is? Doesn't that seem like a more likely explanation?

I know that there are people out there who consume 1200 calories a day, workout like crazy and are losing weight. If *I* did it, I know I would gain weight.

No, you just suspect that you would gain weight. If you haven't tried it, you don't know.

Just like I can eat carbs all day, everyday and don't have any issues with them but other people look at a piece of bread and gain weight. Ditto to sodium - sodium rarely affects me whereas other people have horrible side effects of it.

No one has horrible side effects from sodium. Sodium is absolutely essential for life, if you cut it out entirely, you will die, 100%. Some people just have to limit sodium because they have diseases that make higher levels of it dangerous or uncomfortable (for example, it can cause ankle swelling).

Likewise, no one gains weight from having carbs. First off, having some carbs is completely unavoidable, no one eats zero carbs unless they're fasting. Second, they gain weight because they binge on carbs and go over their daily energy expenditure.

I personally do not care what study you can find that will disagree with me nor do I care about the science behind it all. After almost 2 years on this journey, *I* know MY body and *I* know what works and what doesn't work for me.

So your two years of experimenting with dieting invalidates the billions of hours of work by hundreds of thousands of our species' brightest thinkers for the last several hundred years to understand thermodynamics, conservation of matter and energy, metabolism and the workings of the human body? Wow.

If you insist, though I suggest you take me up on a challenge: do a 3 day water fast and see if you gain weight. Do your own experiment if you don't trust any of those stupid scientists. This will take a lot of variables out. You will have 0 calorie intake for three days. If you do gain weight, I will never say another word on this forum about starvation mode, and I will apologize for spreading misinformation, to you and everyone. Also, I will turn you in to the government for being a mutant that can do photosynthesis :noway:

Weigh yourself one morning before breakfast to get a baseline (ideally after you go to restroom). Start the fast that same evening after dinner, and after that point, you can have nothing but water, and a multivitamin, if you like (and of course any other medicines your doctor has prescribed). Weigh yourself on the next three mornings right after you get up, and post the results. We'll see if I eat crow. I'll even do it with you, and post my results too, if you like. I've done 5 and even 7 day fasts before with no trouble, this one will be easy.

No. I am telling you that when I consume 2000 calories - I gain weight. Nothing changes. I still go to work every single day and I work in an environment where I am in constant motion and I do not get down days while I am there. I still do all my normal stuff.

When I eat 2000 calories - I gain. Plain and simple. I don't give a rat's white behind what YOU try and tell me. It is MY body and quite honestly.. I know how it works. When I consume 2000 calories - my weight goes right back up to 150lbs. When I go back to my normal range - it comes right back off. There's NO change in my daily activities. I do the same things every single day. Plain and simple.


Considering this is MY body and *I* know MY body best, I'd appreciate YOU not telling me what is really going on. You have no idea since it is MY body.

I have eaten 1200 calories and worked out. Didn't lose a single pound and was sick as a dog - no energy, hair started falling out, etc.

Honestly.

Know it all's about other people's bodies are annoying as heck. I really despise people who think they can tell someone else what works for THEIR body. I wouldn't tell you what works for YOU.

As for sodium - if my grandma consumes too much sodium -- her hands and feet swell to the point she can not put on shoes or make a fist. THAT is a horrible side effect and one that her doctor has told her to avoid - as it puts too much strain on her system.

I am only arrogant as far as my own body goes - and I don't give a crap what YOU say about my body. I know it. I understand it. I know how it works.


*rolls eyes*

geekymom57

As a new dieter but a long time scientist - I found that the tiniest things add up. Those tiny things see to sneak under the calorie radar and undermine that amazing low number you see in green at the bottom of your food screen.

Human metabolism is extremely complicated. Some of the variables include hormones and other complicated biochemistry. very simply - most people think if you start by cuttin calories and intake - you will see instant results because you are goin at it two-fold -THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE....you have no idea how long it took you to gain that weight - we guess what - it may take you twice as long and you might have to work twice as hard to lose it because your body system has changed the way it works....

Bottom line - just stop shoving food in and workout at SOMETHING until your heart is racing a little and you begin to sweat - two signs you are using energy!! Keep at this and you will see results - PERIOD!!

Great post. Weight loss is not a math story problem where if done correctly, everyone will have the same result. I struggle to understand why it seems to be so difficult for people to accept that. I remember being told by a physical therapist that when working on a PT issue, you should expect the recovery to be at least twice as long as the problem persisted. If that axiom can apply in other areas, then it's not reasonable to expect that the 40 pounds I gained over 30 years is going to magically melt away in 40 weeks.

Incredible_Shrinking_Jenn

Thanks for the info. Can you help me with something or a tip on how I can fix things? The other day I woke up late ( i worked nights) so breakfast was at about 1:00pm and lunch around 4. I tracked all my food but since i had a "short day" and had to work an early morning shift the following day, i was only able to eat 1080 cals and then I walked 2 hours, walking 7 miles. while walking a stopped several time to do high knees, tricep dips, planks, push ups, etc. after that walk i was in a cal deficit of about 800. i weighed myself the next evening and it said i had gained weight (but i weighed in at a weird time) and the following morning i weighed myself at my normal time and it said i was the same weight (no including that gain day). How is that possible that i have not only dropped my cal consumption from weeks ago, but had a huge deficit and worked out that much and seen no result 1 week into my weightloss journey.Clearly I don't understand the dietary aspect of weightloss. Can you provide some explanation by chance?

Alloranx

@Chevy88grl - I suspected you would respond that way. Too timid to even try, huh? Shame, you might have learned something about your body. I know you think that's impossible since you know everything about it, but eh. Since your body is such an island among the entire human race, and nothing we know about anyone else applies to you, I'd appreciate it if you didn't confuse other people by talking about what happens when you reduce your calories, since none of it applies to their bodies. Only fair, right?

Know it all's about other people's bodies are annoying as heck. I really despise people who think they can tell someone else what works for THEIR body. I wouldn't tell you what works for YOU.

You must save a lot of money on doctors bills, since you never go to one. What would be the point, you know everything about your body. They're just know it all's about other people's bodies who try to use nasty old "science" to tell other people what will heal them.

FelizMi

Bottom line - just stop shoving food in and workout at SOMETHING until your heart is racing a little and you begin to sweat - two signs you are using energy!! Keep at this and you will see results - PERIOD!!

Not always true. I have a lapband so with all the work outs I do, there is no way for me to eat the calories it would take for me to gain weight (unless I'm drinking my calories which I only drink zero calorie drink, so that's not it either). And I have not lost anything all year. It's so easy for people to say, stop eating, stop eating, exercise, exercise, but I am living proof that doing that is not always the fix. It's part of the problem that contributes to the stereotype that overweight people are greedy and lazy. People (smaller people even more so) are amazed when they see me eat such small portions, when I say no to sodas and alcohol and treats, and they are equally amazed when I am doing zumba,sweating my *kitten* off, but my *kitten* keeps moving for the whole hour while they are stopping or leaving class! Yes I am ranting a bit, but I am really tired of people making it seem like weight loss is so simple and easy! And that is why so many give up when it's doesn't work like you all say it should for them, because they are made to feel they just aren't trying hard enough or that they are fudging the numbers of what they eat or how much they exercise. There's more to it than any of us will ever know in our life time and what works for you, doesn't work for everybody. If it were so simple, nobody would be overweight, trust me, it's no fun!

fteale

Thanks for the info. Can you help me with something or a tip on how I can fix things? The other day I woke up late ( i worked nights) so breakfast was at about 1:00pm and lunch around 4. I tracked all my food but since i had a "short day" and had to work an early morning shift the following day, i was only able to eat 1080 cals and then I walked 2 hours, walking 7 miles. while walking a stopped several time to do high knees, tricep dips, planks, push ups, etc. after that walk i was in a cal deficit of about 800. i weighed myself the next evening and it said i had gained weight (but i weighed in at a weird time) and the following morning i weighed myself at my normal time and it said i was the same weight (no including that gain day). How is that possible that i have not only dropped my cal consumption from weeks ago, but had a huge deficit and worked out that much and seen no result 1 week into my weightloss journey.Clearly I don't understand the dietary aspect of weightloss. Can you provide some explanation by chance?

When I have irregular sleeping patterns or don't get much sleep, I water retain hugely. My hands and feet swell up. It takes couple of nights of good sleep (8 hours) to get me back to normal.

candylw

I could not agree with this more and I have this argument about this very subject very often. All the time I am thinking to myself that its not that difficult to understand...thank you for posting this and I hope lots of people read this!!!

kck21886

I just want to say from what I have noticed from my weight loss journey that its specific to your body, and you have to find what works for you. What works for one person , like one piece of advice, might not work for the next. I guess I just do what my body feels is right.

I mean really you know?

I try to follow all this stuff that I read, but sometimes its so overwhelming, and I have to remind myself that what I am doing is working for me. You know?

You have to work past those plateaus and just keep pushing, its a science, you know?
I'm making sense right?

LaComadreja14

What I wanted to say to this post was that I am always in "starvation mode" and I have been (at least since) i started taking my ADHD meds, because they take away your appetite and when you first start them, they up your metabolizm too so at first you aren't eating much and you are loosing mad weight.... however, although you never fully get your appetite back your metabolism gets used to the medication and slows back down therefore you still are barely hungry but your body isn't overly burning anymore, ergo you just put on weight even though you don't eat. So basically, if your metabolism isnt being engaged your body will store fat, believe me.

itontae

excellent post, and good contributions by Alloranx

ATT949

The reason we rely on science is that little anecdotes like this have too many variables to tell us much, if anything. 1 week is not enough time to evaluate any diet plan. The fact that you did these two back to back also skews the results, we don't know what holdover effects from the first week might have affected the second week. We don't know what your BMR or weight or BF% is. We don't know what your diet was before you began this little experiment. 3lbs is a kind of a huge amount of weight loss, and so is 2 lbs of gain in a week. It makes me wonder if you were weighing at the same time of day each time. 3 liters of water is a lot in addition to your food intake, so water weight variances could be at play. We have no idea of your activity levels during these two weeks. You also sound like you radically altered your diet composition during the first week, so who knows if it just took time for your body to sort things out....about a week, perhaps?

Way too many variables. Anecdotes are next to worthless.

This thread has had some interesting discussions — I say this as a person who was castigated by a moderator and, in the same thread, who was "nominated" to be banned for daring to suggest that it was safe to lose weight on 800 to 1000 net cals/day.

Oh, how times have changed…

One thought that you might want to keep in your intellectual quiver — "The plural of "anecdote' is not 'data'."