Sodium make you fat???

MB_Positif

From what I understand, the big deal about sodium is more in the long term. I usually only harass friends about their sodium when they are over by 1,000 or more mg per day or eat packaged sodium filled food at every meal. You're doing great

LabRat529

I apologize for the multiple replies???? I only clicked post reply once, I swear!

It was a great reply and needed to be said 4 times

Seriously though... great write up. Thanks.

joejccva71

I don't believe sodium or saturated fat really affects weight loss, other than the occasional water retention due to too much sodium. The problems with these are more health related I think. Sodium can raise BP and saturated fat can raise cholesterol. These things are not true for all people though. Sounds like you are one of the lucky people that have a problem with neither.

So it doesn't matter that we've been telling you that dietary cholesterol has very minimal impact on your blood serum cholesterol. Now we have Russell who shows you it doesn't by the numbers, and now he's just "one of the lucky ones".

What will it take Bcatts?

He didn't say anything about eating cholesterol. Our posts were about satuated fats. But how could something not affect everyone and yet there not be lucky ones that are not affected?

Saturated fats = dietary cholesterol Bcatts.

servilia

I do not have a fear of saturated fat. But I am afraid of water retention and aim to look lean at all times so I try not to eat too much salt. I know it won't make me "fat" but I don't want the bloated look either (even when I know it could be gone the next day), it's just a vanity thing.

Scott613

Thanks for the info Russ. Now I kinda wanna dip my beef jerky in coconut oil mmmmmm:drinker:

neanderthin

I'll tell you my story first.

I daily have high levels of sodium and saturated fats in my diet, when I tracked on this site I was usually more than double my RDA for sodium and triple for sat-fats.
Why?
I eat a lot of meat and I use 2-3 TBS of coconut oil daily.
I have bacon and eggs almost everyday for breakfast.


I drink a lot of water daily, and I eat within my calorie goals but my sodium has been high for dozens of years, from when I was overweight to present.

I just had my physical, and i nailed it.

My blood pressure 120/60,
my cholesterol 145,
HDL 71
LDL 64
Triglycerides 34

The only thing that wasn't optimal was my high BMI, which means nothing because I have singe-digit bodyfat percentage.

I eat high levels of sodium and high levels of saturated fat(mostly coconut oil) and I'm as healthy as I can be.

So my question is why do we freak out over sodium and saturated fats as it pertains to fat-loss?

Not surprising Russell, your trig levels gives it away. I've had a similar experience going from 265 to 190 and around 12% bf. All my numbers improved and I also consume a lot of saturated fat, sodium, not so much, simply because I consume what most would considered a natural diet, but I love salt and use it all the time. I've maintained my weight while lowerig my BF over the last few years and my last lipid panel showed HDL 84, LDL 93 and trigs of 38. I also consume only around 200-250 g's of carbs which makes my diet pretty much a high protein one.

neanderthin

Yup, saturated fat increases our blood cholesterol, and thank god for that. It jumps all over HDL and increases that more than any other dietary fat.........And the reason for saturated fat increasing our serrum cholesterol numbers is because how it reacts to the particle sizes and sub fractions of cholesterol........it makes them bigger. Bigger particle size effects that measurement upward, can't get around that. What's important is the relationship between HDL and LDL and trigs are a tell tale sign for particle size, the lower someones trigs the larger the particle size of cholesterol. That's all good news

joejccva71

Yup, saturated fat increases our blood cholesterol, and thank god for that. It jumps all over HDL and increases that more than any other dietary fat.........And the reason for saturated fat increasing our serrum cholesterol numbers is because how it reacts to the particle sizes and sub fractions of cholesterol........it makes them bigger. Bigger particle size effects that measurement upward, can't get around that. What's important is the relationship between HDL and LDL and trigs are a tell tale sign for particle size, the lower someones trigs the larger the particle size of cholesterol. That's all good news

Saturated fat = Dietary Cholesterol

Dietary Cholesterol has very minimal (if any) impact on your Blood Serum Cholesterol.

neanderthin

Yup, saturated fat increases our blood cholesterol, and thank god for that. It jumps all over HDL and increases that more than any other dietary fat.........And the reason for saturated fat increasing our serrum cholesterol numbers is because how it reacts to the particle sizes and sub fractions of cholesterol........it makes them bigger. Bigger particle size effects that measurement upward, can't get around that. What's important is the relationship between HDL and LDL and trigs are a tell tale sign for particle size, the lower someones trigs the larger the particle size of cholesterol. That's all good news

Saturated fat = Dietary Cholesterol

Dietary Cholesterol has very minimal (if any) impact on your Blood Serum Cholesterol.

Yup, I realize that, but I didn't say anything about dietary cholesterol, i mentioned saturated fat, different thing altogether.

solpwr

Any individual's story is just that, his/her own story. The medical community is trying to address the needs of a very diverse population.

Your story is great, good job. I happen to have great numbers too. I don't pay attention to sodium at all, I worry about going to low because I lose so much sweating and end up with debilitating muscle cramps.

Please consider this, though, when attempting to influence others based upon your personal experience: For many people, likely the majority of people, they need not worry about saturated fat and sodium intake. Great news! But for those who are genetically predisposed to heart or vascular disease, the risk is high, and following your generalized advice could literally lead to their premature death.

On the other hand, you aren't going to die from eating a diet low in saturated fat and low in sodium. So those who are professionals in charge of handing out dietary advice, error on the side of saving lives. Until knuckleheads start telling everyone that its all a myth no one really needs to worry about any of this. In fact, why not hand out a bunch of advice that undermines the entire medical community, so then no one trusts anything that is presented. Let's just all adopt Bro Science, shall we. I'm being sarcastic here, by the way...

TrekkerCynthia

First, there has never been a study relating saturated fats to heart disease.
HDL and LDL ratio and Triglycerides are the most important factors.

Here's one study that took me all of 1 minute to find (okay, so I'm a grad student with access to a library database and don't have to pay for these) with a list of 50+ studies in its reference section. If you need more, just let me know :-).


Saturated and Trans Fatty Acids and Coronary Heart Disease
Jayne V. Woodside, MA, PhD, Michelle C. McKinley, BSc, PhD,
and Ian S. Young, BSc, MD, FRCP, FRCPI, FRCPath
Current Atherosclerosis Reports 2008, 10:460–466

joejccva71

Yup, saturated fat increases our blood cholesterol, and thank god for that. It jumps all over HDL and increases that more than any other dietary fat.........And the reason for saturated fat increasing our serrum cholesterol numbers is because how it reacts to the particle sizes and sub fractions of cholesterol........it makes them bigger. Bigger particle size effects that measurement upward, can't get around that. What's important is the relationship between HDL and LDL and trigs are a tell tale sign for particle size, the lower someones trigs the larger the particle size of cholesterol. That's all good news

Saturated fat = Dietary Cholesterol

Dietary Cholesterol has very minimal (if any) impact on your Blood Serum Cholesterol.

Yup, I realize that, but I didn't say anything about dietary cholesterol, i mentioned saturated fat, different thing altogether.

:sad:

joejccva71

First, there has never been a study relating saturated fats to heart disease.
HDL and LDL ratio and Triglycerides are the most important factors.

Here's one study that took me all of 1 minute to find (okay, so I'm a grad student with access to a library database and don't have to pay for these) with a list of 50+ studies in its reference section. If you need more, just let me know :-).


Saturated and Trans Fatty Acids and Coronary Heart Disease
Jayne V. Woodside, MA, PhD, Michelle C. McKinley, BSc, PhD,
and Ian S. Young, BSc, MD, FRCP, FRCPI, FRCPath
Current Atherosclerosis Reports 2008, 10:460–466

Trans Fatty Acids yes, Saturated Fats no.

There is no evidence to support that Saturated Fats lead to CVD or CHD.

neanderthin

Yup, saturated fat increases our blood cholesterol, and thank god for that. It jumps all over HDL and increases that more than any other dietary fat.........And the reason for saturated fat increasing our serrum cholesterol numbers is because how it reacts to the particle sizes and sub fractions of cholesterol........it makes them bigger. Bigger particle size effects that measurement upward, can't get around that. What's important is the relationship between HDL and LDL and trigs are a tell tale sign for particle size, the lower someones trigs the larger the particle size of cholesterol. That's all good news

Saturated fat = Dietary Cholesterol

Dietary Cholesterol has very minimal (if any) impact on your Blood Serum Cholesterol.

Yup, I realize that, but I didn't say anything about dietary cholesterol, i mentioned saturated fat, different thing altogether.

:sad:

LOL. I quess you believe that dietary fat has no effect on serum cholesterol levels......I quess you will soon as soon as you do a little snooping around.

solpwr

First, there has never been a study relating saturated fats to heart disease.
HDL and LDL ratio and Triglycerides are the most important factors.

Here's one study that took me all of 1 minute to find (okay, so I'm a grad student with access to a library database and don't have to pay for these) with a list of 50+ studies in its reference section. If you need more, just let me know :-).


Saturated and Trans Fatty Acids and Coronary Heart Disease
Jayne V. Woodside, MA, PhD, Michelle C. McKinley, BSc, PhD,
and Ian S. Young, BSc, MD, FRCP, FRCPI, FRCPath
Current Atherosclerosis Reports 2008, 10:460–466

Trans Fatty Acids yes, Saturated Fats no.

There is no evidence to support that Saturated Fats lead to CVD or CHD.

Hey man, have you ever heard of the saying, "straining at the gnat, and swallowing the camel"? You're doing what the point of the saying is...

neanderthin

First, there has never been a study relating saturated fats to heart disease.
HDL and LDL ratio and Triglycerides are the most important factors.

Here's one study that took me all of 1 minute to find (okay, so I'm a grad student with access to a library database and don't have to pay for these) with a list of 50+ studies in its reference section. If you need more, just let me know :-).


Saturated and Trans Fatty Acids and Coronary Heart Disease
Jayne V. Woodside, MA, PhD, Michelle C. McKinley, BSc, PhD,
and Ian S. Young, BSc, MD, FRCP, FRCPI, FRCPath
Current Atherosclerosis Reports 2008, 10:460–466

What year was that study and were the fats controlled, seperating trans and saturated.......Find a study that replaces refined carbs with a diet high in saturated fat.....that should be, as a grad student be easy to find, and conclusive.

joejccva71

First, there has never been a study relating saturated fats to heart disease.
HDL and LDL ratio and Triglycerides are the most important factors.

Here's one study that took me all of 1 minute to find (okay, so I'm a grad student with access to a library database and don't have to pay for these) with a list of 50+ studies in its reference section. If you need more, just let me know :-).


Saturated and Trans Fatty Acids and Coronary Heart Disease
Jayne V. Woodside, MA, PhD, Michelle C. McKinley, BSc, PhD,
and Ian S. Young, BSc, MD, FRCP, FRCPI, FRCPath
Current Atherosclerosis Reports 2008, 10:460–466

Trans Fatty Acids yes, Saturated Fats no.

There is no evidence to support that Saturated Fats lead to CVD or CHD.

Hey man, have you ever heard of the saying, "straining at the gnat, and swallowing the camel"? You're doing what the point of the saying is...

My friend you have no idea. I have posted countless articles and studies regarding the entire SFA leading to CVD and CHD arguement over and over. It gets tiresome.

lizziebeth1028

I'll tell you my story first.

I daily have high levels of sodium and saturated fats in my diet, when I tracked on this site I was usually more than double my RDA for sodium and triple for sat-fats.
Why?
I eat a lot of meat and I use 2-3 TBS of coconut oil daily.
I have bacon and eggs almost everyday for breakfast.


I drink a lot of water daily, and I eat within my calorie goals but my sodium has been high for dozens of years, from when I was overweight to present.

I just had my physical, and i nailed it.

My blood pressure 120/60,
my cholesterol 145,
HDL 71
LDL 64
Triglycerides 34

The only thing that wasn't optimal was my high BMI, which means nothing because I have singe-digit bodyfat percentage.

I eat high levels of sodium and high levels of saturated fat(mostly coconut oil) and I'm as healthy as I can be.

So my question is why do we freak out over sodium and saturated fats as it pertains to fat-loss?

Makes me feel way better about the chicken breasts I marinated in soy sauce and olive oil and grilled yesterday....way over on the sodium count OUCH ...but delicious!

bcattoes

According the leading experts in nutrition science. You know, those folks with all the medical degrees that spend their entire lives studying nutrition medicine, the ones that don't just surf the internet cherry picking studies, but the people who conduct and peer review those studies. According to those people, sodium "can" raise your BP and saturated fats "can" raise your blood cholesterol. Whether you choose to believe these experts or some random MFP posters doesn't change anything.

But you know what these experts say lowers BP and LDL and cholesterol? Exercise.

edited to correct typos (I really need a typing class)

neanderthin

According the leading experts in nutrition science. You know, those folks with all the medical degrees that spend their entire lives studying nutrition medicine, the ones that don't just surf the internet cherry picking studies, but the people who conduct and peer review those studies. According to those people, sodium "can" raise your BP and saturated fats "can" raise your blood cholesterol. Whether you choose to believe these experts or some random MFP posters doesn't change anything.

But you know what these experts say lowers BP and LDL and cholesterol? Exercise.

edited to correct typos (I really need a typing class)

Agreed. Sodium can have some effect for some people and some studies do show this happens, and there's also some very well controlled studies that show it doesn't. Bottom line sodium is only 1 of the many things that can for some people contribute to increased blood pressure, but most of the chronic ( sustained) hypertention is mostly due to lifestyle and daily life stress, which is where people should focus their resources on to lower blood pressure.

Saturated fat does increase our serrum cholesterol, i don't think many people that understand basic nutrition would disagree with that, but most people associate that with heart disease, which is just not the case, or ever proved conclusively. Monounsaturated fat also increases our serrum cholesterol levels but people never hear about that because the oil that's been pushed to replace the dreaded saturated fat for over 30 years are refined vegetable oils, which again if someone understood nutrition is not neccessarily better, especially the large amounts of polyunsaturated fat that is now prevelant in the NA diet, which has drastically effected our omega balance and the overall health of the nation. It just isn't as simple as saying saturated fat causes heart disease, because tht has never been proved. The only aspect of saturated fat has been associated with CHD is that some isomers of saturated fat can increase LDL.........and this simple fact was the original focus of the low fat diet era that started 30 years ago and until recently almost all of those studies also included transfats as saturated fat, which again if someone was versed in nutrition would know that transfats are actually unsaturated fats and not actually dietary saturated fats. Even with that additional association the burnden of proof that saturated fat caused CHd was weak, and now that their are studies that isolate saturated fat from other dietary confounders like refined carbs the association has disappeared and on the contrary a highly refined carb diet low in fat, but high in polyunsaturated fat is now the focus of heart disease.

servilia

According the leading experts in nutrition science. You know, those folks with all the medical degrees that spend their entire lives studying nutrition medicine, the ones that don't just surf the internet cherry picking studies, but the people who conduct and peer review those studies. According to those people, sodium "can" raise your BP and saturated fats "can" raise your blood cholesterol. Whether you choose to believe these experts or some random MFP posters doesn't change anything.

But you know what these experts say lowers BP and LDL and cholesterol? Exercise.

edited to correct typos (I really need a typing class)

Agreed. Sodium can have some effect for some people and some studies do show this happens, and there's also some very well controlled studies that show it doesn't. Bottom line sodium is only 1 of the many things that can for some people contribute to increased blood pressure, but most of the chronic ( sustained) hypertention is mostly due to lifestyle and daily life stress, which is where people should focus their resources on to lower blood pressure.

Saturated fat does increase our serrum cholesterol, i don't think many people that understand basic nutrition would disagree with that, but most people associate that with heart disease, which is just not the case, or ever proved conclusively. Monounsaturated fat also increases our serrum cholesterol levels but people never hear about that because the oil that's been pushed to replace the dreaded saturated fat for over 30 years are refined vegetable oils, which again if someone understood nutrition is not neccessarily better, especially the large amounts of polyunsaturated fat that is now prevelant in the NA diet, which has drastically effected our omega balance and the overall health of the nation. It just isn't as simple as saying saturated fat causes heart disease, because tht has never been proved. The only aspect of saturated fat has been associated with CHD is that some isomers of saturated fat can increase LDL.........and this simple fact was the original focus of the low fat diet era that started 30 years ago and until recently almost all of those studies also included transfats as saturated fat, which again if someone was versed in nutrition would know that transfats are actually unsaturated fats and not actually dietary saturated fats. Even with that additional association the burnden of proof that saturated fat caused CHd was weak, and now that their are studies that isolate saturated fat from other dietary confounders like refined carbs the association has disappeared and on the contrary a highly refined carb diet low in fat, but high in polyunsaturated fat is now the focus of heart disease.

Thanks for this!

solpwr

"...most of the chronic ( sustained) hypertention is mostly due to lifestyle and daily life stress, which is where people should focus their resources on to lower blood pressure."

The correct statement is "most of the chronic hypertension is due to a genetic predisposition to the condition."

Russellb97

First, there has never been a study relating saturated fats to heart disease.
HDL and LDL ratio and Triglycerides are the most important factors.

Here's one study that took me all of 1 minute to find (okay, so I'm a grad student with access to a library database and don't have to pay for these) with a list of 50+ studies in its reference section. If you need more, just let me know :-).


Saturated and Trans Fatty Acids and Coronary Heart Disease
Jayne V. Woodside, MA, PhD, Michelle C. McKinley, BSc, PhD,
and Ian S. Young, BSc, MD, FRCP, FRCPI, FRCPath
Current Atherosclerosis Reports 2008, 10:460–466

Just to be clear this is what the dietitian told me at the expo, she does have a degree. She said there was a link between refined carbs and heart disease though.

This has never been a top subject for me, because I'm vain and I have cared more about how I look versus the things I can't see. I was pleasantly surprised at how great my numbers turned out and this lead to my discussion with the dietitian.


To my understanding the most important numbers are HDL/LDL ratio and triglycerides.

guntherma

I don't watch my sodium...I feel it when I have eaten a bag of chips - oh do I feel it! But because of that I stay away from it the next day - my body is pretty good at telling my brain when my mouth has screwed up so I just try to learn from my mistakes - hopefully one day it will be a lesson well learned and I will look and feel awesome.