3500 calories for a pound of fat, how

Rae6503

much for a pound of muscle?

SergeantSunshine_reused

Edit: Oops! Took that wrong Nevermind then!

Acg67

i beleive it's 2500

Rae6503

Not to burn, to build a pound of muscle.

deathstarclock

i beleive it's 2500

quoting for truth

erickirb

I have heard 1600, but am not entirely sure but the reasoning was that muscle is mainly protein and protein has 4 cals/gram, vs 9 for fat. So 3500/9*4 = 1556 cals. But am not sure if this is the case. Keep in mind that while gaining muscle you will also gain some fat, so if you set your weekly goal to gain 1 lb of muscle and give yourself 1600 cals extra most likely you will not gain a lb, maybe 1/4 pound of muscle and 1/3 pound of fat.

Or another reason why it may take less cals than fat, is that muscle is mostly water.

neanderthin

1600

HeidiMightyRawr

I don't think muscle is as straightforward as that - because it takes alot more things into consideration.
The type of foods you eat.
How much your training & how much effort you put into it.
How long you've trained for.
Hormones (male v female differences)

I'd say though if you're training right, and eating a surplus you should gain some muscle. How quickly/easily and how much will depend on more things. Sorry if that's not a great/specific answer. I've never heard a set figure like 2500 before as someone else mentioned but I just can't believe it's as simple as that.

liftingbro

much for a pound of muscle?

There's really no way to know an exact number. Women gain at a rate less than half that of men and among men the rate of gain can vary a lot due to genetics and testosterone levels.

Generally speaking you need to eat at about a 20-30% suplus for best bulking results. If your maintenance was 2000, then that would mean eating 2400-2600 and at that rate you should gain about a pound or so a week. Some will be muscle and some will be fat, hard to predict how much of each.

servilia

I've read 600 cals for a pound of muscle but that seems much different from what others are saying so..

Rae6503

I've been trying to bulk for 3 weeks. I eat at least 130 grams protein, at least 60 grams of fat (and usually much more in both categories) and have lifted 2-3 weeks pretty much increasing weight whenever I can. I my weight is exactly the same.

Week 1 average net: 2310
Week 2 average net: 2924 (I had a conference for school which mean free food and booze)
This week, so far average net: 2203

I guess I should try for more??

liftingbro

I've been trying to bulk for 3 weeks. I eat at least 130 grams protein, at least 60 grams of fat (and usually much more in both categories) and have lifted 2-3 weeks pretty much increasing weight whenever I can. I my weight is exactly the same.

Week 1 average net: 2310
Week 2 average net: 2924 (I had a conference for school which mean free food and booze)
This week, so far average net: 2203

I guess I should try for more??

Yes, if you are not gaining you need to slowly up the calories until you do. I'd probably up it by 5-10% for a couple weeks and see if you gain. If not up it again by another 5-10%.

erickirb

Are you also lifting heavy so on each set you have trouble on your last few reps? Also, how many reps are you doing per set?

neanderthin

Optimally if someone eats about 500 over TDEE daily a man could gain about 2lbs of actual muscle mass a month, a woman about half that...obviously some fat will also be stored. Basically 14,000 extra calories could build 2 lbs of muscle. So far as the energy in 1lb of muscle goes it's around 1600, so as you can see if someone loses weight wrecklessly the 3500 deficit can mean much more than just 1 lb of fat lost.

HeidiMightyRawr

I've been trying to bulk for 3 weeks. I eat at least 130 grams protein, at least 60 grams of fat (and usually much more in both categories) and have lifted 2-3 weeks pretty much increasing weight whenever I can. I my weight is exactly the same.

Week 1 average net: 2310
Week 2 average net: 2924 (I had a conference for school which mean free food and booze)
This week, so far average net: 2203

I guess I should try for more??

If you're not gaining you need to up your calories. I wasn't gaining on 2600 net so upped it to 2800 and suddenly I was Weird but I'm not complaining
You also need to keep your net the same consistently so you truely know what's working and what isn't. You didn't eat "that" much in weeks 1 and 3 so maybe up it to 2400/2500 net and stick with that for around 2 weeks. Weigh in and adjust accordingly. I don't really believe MFP's estimates of maintenance all that much.

liftingbro

Optimally if someone eats about 500 over TDEE daily a man could gain about 2lbs of actual muscle mass a month, a woman about half that...obviously some fat will also be stored. Basically 14,000 extra calories could build 2 lbs of muscle. So far as the energy in 1lb of muscle goes it's around 1600, so as you can see if someone loses weight wrecklessly the 3500 deficit can mean much more than just 1 lb of fat lost.

This is assuming perfect nutrition and training, real world results are probably less than that.

barwood

I have one of the biggest loser books and it says you have to burn 3500 calories to lose a pound.

jacksonpt

I've been trying to bulk for 3 weeks. I eat at least 130 grams protein, at least 60 grams of fat (and usually much more in both categories) and have lifted 2-3 weeks pretty much increasing weight whenever I can. I my weight is exactly the same.

Week 1 average net: 2310
Week 2 average net: 2924 (I had a conference for school which mean free food and booze)
This week, so far average net: 2203

I guess I should try for more??

I would also question how realistiic it would be to see a noticable change/gain in only 2 weeks. I'm just starting my bulk cycle, so this is more logical thought from me as opposed to any real experience or knowledge.

Experts?

neanderthin

Optimally if someone eats about 500 over TDEE daily a man could gain about 2lbs of actual muscle mass a month, a woman about half that...obviously some fat will also be stored. Basically 14,000 extra calories could build 2 lbs of muscle. So far as the energy in 1lb of muscle goes it's around 1600, so as you can see if someone loses weight wrecklessly the 3500 deficit can mean much more than just 1 lb of fat lost.

This is assuming perfect nutrition and training, real world results are probably less than that.

For sure and why I said optimally. Theoretical nutrition is seldom reality.

jacksonpt

I have one of the biggest loser books and it says you have to burn 3500 calories to lose a pound.

That's for fat.

And the OP is talking about muscle.. and building/gaining muscle at that, not losing/burning.

solpwr

It doesn't work that way. At all.

liftingbro

I have one of the biggest loser books and it says you have to burn 3500 calories to lose a pound.

That's a rough estimate. Some people may require more than that to lose a pound of fat and some may need to eat more to gain muscle.

Rae6503

I've been trying to bulk for 3 weeks. I eat at least 130 grams protein, at least 60 grams of fat (and usually much more in both categories) and have lifted 2-3 weeks pretty much increasing weight whenever I can. I my weight is exactly the same.

Week 1 average net: 2310
Week 2 average net: 2924 (I had a conference for school which mean free food and booze)
This week, so far average net: 2203

I guess I should try for more??

I would also question how realistiic it would be to see a noticable change/gain in only 2 weeks. I'm just starting my bulk cycle, so this is more logical thought from me as opposed to any real experience or knowledge.

Experts?

I guess that is part of my question to. Is it too soon to tell, to make changes?

liftingbro

I've been trying to bulk for 3 weeks. I eat at least 130 grams protein, at least 60 grams of fat (and usually much more in both categories) and have lifted 2-3 weeks pretty much increasing weight whenever I can. I my weight is exactly the same.

Week 1 average net: 2310
Week 2 average net: 2924 (I had a conference for school which mean free food and booze)
This week, so far average net: 2203

I guess I should try for more??

I would also question how realistiic it would be to see a noticable change/gain in only 2 weeks. I'm just starting my bulk cycle, so this is more logical thought from me as opposed to any real experience or knowledge.

Experts?

I guess that is part of my question to. Is it too soon to tell, to make changes?

Weight gain is a little different that weight loss. With weight loss a lot of things can cause you to bloat showing a gain on the scale that isn't fat. When gaining weight you can gain false weight as well but generally you don't lose or maintain weight over the course of a week or two. Generally people shouldn't change things while losing weight until they have 3 consecutive week with no weight loss, but in gaining you should see gains pretty quickly. Particularly if you went from eating at a deficit to a surplus.

stresco

I've been trying to bulk for 3 weeks. I eat at least 130 grams protein, at least 60 grams of fat (and usually much more in both categories) and have lifted 2-3 weeks pretty much increasing weight whenever I can. I my weight is exactly the same.

Week 1 average net: 2310
Week 2 average net: 2924 (I had a conference for school which mean free food and booze)
This week, so far average net: 2203

I guess I should try for more??

I would also question how realistiic it would be to see a noticable change/gain in only 2 weeks. I'm just starting my bulk cycle, so this is more logical thought from me as opposed to any real experience or knowledge.

Experts?

I guess that is part of my question to. Is it too soon to tell, to make changes?

It is way too soon for that. If all things were perfect (which they never are) you could expect 1 inch of muscle growth per year. That is taking into consideration your genetics, diet, training routine THE AMOUNT OF REST YOU GET and 1000 other factors. To expect results in 2 weeks is totally unrealistic.

Rae6503

Yeah, I KNOW I'm not getting enough rest. My kids have been sick and not sleeping well, which means I'm not sleeping well.

myofibril

I've read 600 cals for a pound of muscle but that seems much different from what others are saying so..

You are right in one respect.

1lb of fat has an energy yield of 3,500 calories (3,600 in reality)
1lb of muscle has an energy yield of 600 calories

To lose fat have a deficit of 500 calories under TDEE for each lb of fat you wish to lose.

For mass gains eat 10 - 20% above maintenance and tweak as necessary depending on rate of growth / concurrent fat gain after a month or so. Alternatively 16-18 calories per lb of total bodyweight and then adjust as necessary after a month or so.

stresco

Yeah, I KNOW I'm not getting enough rest. My kids have been sick and not sleeping well, which means I'm not sleeping well.

You need 6 - 7.5 hours of uninterrupted sleep each night. And you need to plan your rest days. You cant keep tearing down muscle fiber without giving your body time to recuperate.

Jeff92se

I'd think it would be really tough to TRACK muscle mass gains. You'd need to have a good body fat measurement tool and use it frequently to get as many data points as possible.

Sublog

much for a pound of muscle?

600 calories in a lb of muscle.
Source:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

neanderthin

much for a pound of muscle?

600 calories in a lb of muscle.
Source:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

lol......I was actually recalling in my mind that paper by lyle and had thought it was 1600, thanks for the correction.