Supplements?

bhawkins0711

So I bought a bunch of Advocare products when I first started working out with my trainer about a month ago. I honestly feel like I got ripped off! But whatever, my question is should I continue to take any nutritional supplements? I've lost 11 lbs so far and I really feel like I would have gotten the same results without all of the product. Would like to know who has used supplements and who has done without and still had results? I'm so torn between spending all this money for products or just doing it the old fashioned way.

The_Saint

Hmm.....

How much money do you have to waste...er I mean spend?

Look, the best way to answer this questions is to look at it this way. Answer these questions.

Do you get enough macro nutrition from your food?
Can you?

Do you get enough micronutrition from your food
Can you?

What do you expect from the supplements?

Then you will have your answer and probably a few new questions...

unmitigatedbadassery

Hmm.....

How much money do you have to waste...er I mean spend?

Look, the best way to answer this questions is to look at it this way. Answer these questions.

Do you get enough macro nutrition from your food?
Can you?

Do you get enough micronutrition from your food
Can you?

What do you expect from the supplements?

Then you will have your answer and probably a few new questions...

Exactly this^

To echo what I think he's saying is that if you are eating proper, REAL food, you should be getting all the nutrients you need. If you have a deficiency in something maybe kick up the grub with that nutrient or take a supplement. Excess nutrients from supplements don't benefit you at all if you're already meeting your numbers with food. Plus it's much more fun to eat.

bhawkins0711

Micro/Macro is so confusing. I'm thinking about meeting with a RD to try to understand nutrition better.

Strobins05

Good morning! Well just wanted to give my two cents of advice. Honestly, I do not take supplements for the result of losing weight. I take them to help my body work better and stay healthy. In the past three years I have lost over 30#'s and have kept it off. I was not taking any supplements, just hitting the gym four days a week and counting cals. So my suggestion to you would be to consult your physician regarding the best supplements needed for YOUR body. That is before you spend any more money on product that may not even be good for you. Good luck! :flowerforyou:

The_Saint

Micro/Macro is so confusing. I'm thinking about meeting with a RD to try to understand nutrition better.

There is a lot of good information here, but here is also a lot a bad information here.
Perhaps there are people who can help?
And would ultimately cost less.

joejccva71

Hmm.....

How much money do you have to waste...er I mean spend?

Look, the best way to answer this questions is to look at it this way. Answer these questions.

Do you get enough macro nutrition from your food?
Can you?

Do you get enough micronutrition from your food
Can you?

What do you expect from the supplements?

Then you will have your answer and probably a few new questions...

^^ This. OP, please listen to Saint. Before you start spending cash on supps, find out what you need, what you are lacking or deficient in, and go from there.

woou

I personally wasn't getting enough micronutrients (vitamins, minerals) in my diet which caused me to be constantly hungry. I now take a multivit at a quarter of its recommended dosage. Had to buy a pill cutter for that.

bhawkins0711

It's hard to determine how much of something that I need. MFP doesn't seem to be right when it comes to things like protein, carbs, etc. What are some reliable sources that I can use for that info?

Enforcer25

I used to buy all these different supplements thinking they would help. Since starting my exercise again, I have bought whey protein, creatine, a multi vitamin and a joint supplement.

Superdave24

I take Advocare products and they work well with my body. I know just enough about supplements to get me into trouble but it you want to talk more about this in depth you can "Friend" me and talk more through messages. I feel that for the most part if your taking some sort of a supplement you have made a decision that you want to take better care of your body. The thing I use to tell my clients was to take baby steps, some things will work and others won't. If its weight loss then the first thing you want to do is to CHANGE your diet and implement daily exercise. Supplements help compliment what your doing. If your not doing anything chances are the supplements aren't going to work the way you want them too. If your just trying to maintain a healthy and balanced lifestyle then some basis supplements like a good multi-vitamin would be good to start with. Having your doctor do a physical with labs will also help determine what your body is lacking too. Hope this helps. Dave

The_Saint

It's hard to determine how much of something that I need. MFP doesn't seem to be right when it comes to things like protein, carbs, etc. What are some reliable sources that I can use for that info?

You can adjust your goals for nutrition using MFP Go to goals, change goals, custom. You can adjust your ratio and even your caloric intake.
You can find the answers here in MFP or bodybuilding.com and ww.bodyrecomposition.com (Lyle McDonald is a genious sevant)

For example
I average burn 3200 calories per day (I know this because I use a bodymedia FIT, and if I don't I waste away...)
I want to gain weight right now.
I would like to gain about 1 lb per week.
I know that 3500 calorie per week surplus is going to result in 1 lb gain per week. ( I Know this because I research)
So I would consume 3700 calories per day.
Most people would suggest anywhere between 1g to 1.5g of protein per lb of body weight (some say lean body mass, but really whats another 50g among friends?) (I subscribe to the 3g per kilo theory anyway)
I'm 200 lb so that's going to put me in the 200 - 250 g per day. (making up 800 to 1000 of my daily calories)
Next! I need to know the purpose of Fats and Carbs
Some fats are Essential (meaning they can not be produced by the body) and called Essential Fatty acids. I have to eat fats to get these.
Carbohydrates produce energy (effectively brain food for the most part). They do contribute to blood glucose levels and ultimately energy.
Fats are energy as well.
You can split your fats and carbs up however you like, because at the end of the day its all about caloric surplus or caloric deficit.
I have a tendency to subscribe to the .5-.75g (900 to 1350 of my daily calories) of fat per lb of body weight, but everyone works differently.
From here I can mathematically calculate how many grams of carbs I need ( here is a hint 1 g of carbohydrate is 4 calories)

In conclusion, support your protein, get your remaining calories from Fats and Carbs how ever works best for you.

Toss in a good Multivitamin/Mineral and you should be set for your day.
Any questions?

spielmannp

Here is a good post that I found on bobybuilding.com website that gives good info on micronutrients. It's long but I hope it helps!!

Basic Terminology
1/ BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): This is the amount of calories you need to consume to maintain your body if you were comatose (base level).
2/ NEAT (Non-Exercise Associated Thermogenesis): The calorie of daily activity that is NOT exercise (eg: washing, walking, talking, shopping, working). ie: INCIDENTAL EXERCISE! It is something that everyone has a good amount of control over & it is the MOST important factor in your energy expenditure. It is what helps keep 'constitutionally lean' people LEAN (they fidget)!
3/ EAT (Exercise Associated Thermogenesis): The calorie requirements associated with planned exercise. Unless someone is doing a whole heap of exercise (eg: two or more hrs training a day) it usually doesn't add a stack of calories to your requirements (30 minutes of 'elliptical training isn't going to do it')
4/ TEF (Thermic effect of feeding): The calorie expenditure associated with eating. REGARDLESS of what myths you have been told - this is NOT dependent on MEAL FREQUENCY. It is a % of TOTAL CALORIES CONSUMED (and 15% of 3 x 600 cal meals is the same as 15% of 6 x 300 cal meals). It varies according to MACRONUTRIENT content and FIBER content. For most mixed diets, it is something around 15%. Protein is higher (up to 25%), carbs are variable (between 5-25%), and fats are low (usually less than 5%). So -> More protein and more carbs and more fiber = HIGHER TEF. More FAT = LOWER TEF.
5/ TEE (Total Energy Expenditure): The total calories you require - and the sum of the above (BMR + NEAT + EAT + TEF).

How much do you need?
There is therefore a multitude of things that impact a persons MAINTENANCE calorie requirements
- Age & sex (males generally need > females for any given age)
- Total weight & lean mass (more lean mass = more needed)
- Physiological status (eg: sick or injured, pregnant, growth and 'enhancement')
- Hormones (eg: thyroid hormone levels, growth hormone levels)
- Exercise level (more activity = more needed)
- Daily activity level (more activity = more needed)
- Diet (that is - macronutrient intake)

In order to calculate your requirements the most accurate measure is via Calorimetry [the measure of 'chemical reactions' in your body & the heat produced by these reactions], either directly (via placing a calorimeter where the heat you produce is measured) or indirectly (eg: HOOD studies where they monitor how much oxygen you use/ carbon dioxide and nitrogen you excrete over a given time). But although accurate they are completely impractical for most people & we mostly rely on pre-set formula t0 calculate our needs.

Estimating Requirements
The simplest method of estimating needs is to base your intake on a standard 'calories per unit of weight (usually kilograms)'. Typically:
- 26 to 30 kcals/kg/day for normal, healthy individuals with sedentary lifestyles doing little physical activity [12.0-14 kcal/pound]
- 31 to 37 kcal/kg/day for those involved in light to moderate activity 3-5 x a week with moderately active lifestyles [14-16 kcal/ pound]
- 38 to 40 kcals/kg/day for those involved in vigorous activity and highly active jobs [16-18 kcal/ pound].

For those involved in HEAVY training (eg: athletes) - the demand is even greater:
- 41 to 50 kcals/kg/day for those involved in moderate to heavy training (for example: 15-20 hrs/ week training) [18.5-22 kcal/ pound]
- 50 or above kcals/kg/day for those involved in heavy to extreme training [> 22 kcal/ pound]

There are then a number of other formula which calculate BMR.
1/ Harris-Benedict formula: Very inaccurate. It was derived from studies on LEAN, YOUNG, ACTIVE males MANY YEARS AGO (1919). Notorious for OVERESTIMATING requirements, especially in the overweight. IF YOU CAN AVOID IT, DON'T USE IT!
MEN: BMR = 66 + [13.7 x weight (kg)] + [5 x height (cm)] - [6.76 x age (years)]
WOMEN: BMR = 655 + [9.6 x weight (kg)] + [1.8 x height (cm)] - [4.7 x age (years)]

2/Mifflin-St Jeor: Developed in the 1990s and more realistic in todays settings. It still doesn't take into consideration the differences as a consequence of high BF%. Thus, once again, it OVERESTIMATES NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OVERWEIGHT.
MEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] + 5
WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

3/Katch-McArdle:Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.
BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

You then multiply these by an 'activity variable' to give TEE. This Activity Factor[/u] is the cost of living and it is BASED ON MORE THAN JUST YOUR TRAINING. It also includes work/lifestyle, sport & a TEF of ~15% (an average mixed diet). Average activity variables are:
1.2 = Sedentary (Little or no exercise + desk job)
1.3-1.4 = Lightly Active (Little daily activity & light exercise 1-3 days a week)
1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately active daily life & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)
1.7-1.8 = Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise or sports 6-7 days a week)
1.9-2.0 = Extremely Active (Hard daily exercise or sports and physical job)

So to convert BMR to a TOTAL requirement: multiply the result of your BMR by the variable you fall into!
How Accurate are they?: Well, although they give rough ball-park figures, they are still 'guesstimations' and most people still OVERESTIMATE activity, UNDERESTIMATE bodyfat & end up eating TOO MUCH. So the aim is to use these as 'rough figures', monitor your weight/ measurements for 2-4 weeks, & IF your weight is stable/ measurements are stable, you have likely found maintenance.

Using the Above to Recalculate Based on Goals
You then need to DECREASE or INCREASE intake based on your goals (eg: lose or gain mass). And instead of using 'generic calorie amounts' (eg: 500 cals/ day), this should be calculated on a % of your maintenance. Why? The effect of a given calorie amount on an individual is going to be markedly different based on their size/ total calorie intake. For example - subtracting 500 cals/ day from a 1500 total intake is 1/3rd of the total cals, where 500 cals/ day from 3000 total intake is only 1/6th of the total. The results will therefore be markedly different on an individuals energy level & weight loss. So generally:
- To ADD weight: ADD 10-20% calories to the total above
- To LOSE weight: SUBTRACT 10-20% calories from the total above
Then monitor your results and adjust as required.