BETA BLOCKERS, Heart RATE Montitor results and caloric burn

Cr8tive_Ingenuity

THe below is an email exchange I had with my physician and I wanted to share it with you guys as it might answer some questions if you are taking any beta blockers and are using a heart rate monitor. I use mine to get a better caloric burn indicator and I was finding out that my hr was so much higher when I did not take my atenolol and thus my hrm was showing a much lower caloric burn and hr when I was taking the beta blocker. I know what shows up on most of the websites and programs i use is way off in regards to calories burned for alot of excercises. Anyways. I did remove the doctors name from the email and am just showing you whats important. NOthing else was edited out except my dosages on the meds



My first email : I purchased a heart rate monitor through polar to see what my true caloric burn is during aerobic exercising. Today was the first day i used the monitor with the chest strap. I usually do 45 minutes a day of cardio or about 10 to 12 miles a day of cycling. I only did 15 minutes of cardio as of now just to check out the hrm. its telling me my heart rate is out of zone its displaying 105bbm as my max. Based on my health history, the meds im on, what is a good target zone to be out for weight loss. Just to keep you up to date im am down to 247 lbs and on a 1200 calorie diet which is working great. I have been keeping my carbohydrates to a minimum staying away from white starches etc and sticking more to the whole grain foods and protein. Sorry to get off subject but is there a way for you to give me a good zone to reach for my heart rate during excercise.

Hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving!


Doctors Response:

First of all, Congratulations! That is very good.
My only warning is to make sure you are feeling good. It is possible to "overshoot" on your diet if you are doing a lot of cardio activity. If you are feeling lousy I would go a little higher on your caloric intake, such as 1,600 cal/day, but if you feel you can sustain what you are doing on your diet, then that is fine. However, one of the most common problems in diet/exercise is setting up a nonsustainable plan, which is usually from a Very limited diet that limits the amount of AEROBIC exercise you can do, and then people get frustrated and quit. The weight comes off a little slower, but it is sustainable.

For the HR, I suscribe to the Dr. Maffetone equation which is pretty simple. 180 - age. For you that = 145 being the maximum end of your aerobic capacity. Subtract 10 from that, 135, and that is the lower end of what your HR should be for AEROBIC exercise. Any higher, and you will be doing ANAEROBIC exercise, ie exceeding the amount of energy that oxygen alone is able to deliver to your muscles.
HOWEVER, for many people that have recently started exercising, it is reasonable to lower those numbers Another 10 points, so the range being 125-135, until you get a good BASE of aerobic fitness for your muscles before you try to consistently stay in the 135-145 range. Getting that base can take about 2 months, so don't rush it.
Also, it should take about 10-15 mins of warm up before you get into that target range, and you should have a cool down of 10-15 mins after being in that range.
I.e. 10-15 mins warming up, 15 mins in that range, then 10-15 mins cooling down = about a 45 min workout, which can increase once you get more comfortable with it

My reply:

Thanks for the reply. I tried something today to see the difference in my heart rate. Today I skipped my med this morning..the lisinipril, the atenolol..im gonna take it now. of course my heart rate was much higher to start with..yesterday my heart rate started about 85 and i was able to get it up to almost 124. today it started about 105 which im sure is too high at rest even though i was running around town and had some turkey for lunch..not sure if digestion increases heart rate. anyways i was able to 32 minutes of cardio..it took me 6 and a half minutes to get my heart rate above 110 and my average bpm was 136. are the meds im am taking gonna make it harder to lose weight?


Doctors Response

No. They do not affect caloric consumption. The Atenolol will keep your HR on the lower side, but it will not affect wt loss. It is a medication called a Beta Blocker, and if stopped abruptly there is a rebound effect of elevated HR, and it needs to be tapered off of if and when it is discontinued.



My reply

I just got bck from my daily aerobic. i did 30 minutes on the eliptical at a moderate to fast pace and my hrm says i burnt 171 calories my average hpm was 101 with my maximum at 111. I took my atenolol at about 10am this morning. A big difference from yesterday results which was the same amout of time but i burnt365 calories, average hpm was 136 and my max was 149. Im using a high end polar heart rate monitor. Even with the atenolol (spelling sorry), im not coming close to my target heart rate. Should I change my dosage and take half in the monring and half at night or should I just not worry about it and just exercise without worrying about my cardiac output. Sorry for all the questions, but I appreciate any information you can help me with to maximize my weight loss!


Dr. REsponse

Your HR is not necessarily what is burning the calories, but that is all the HRM has to calculate off of. No matter how fancy the device, the caloric consumption is a VERY rough estimate. (A true measure of calories burned would require much more sophisticated testing equipment.)
However, sometimes people do like to take their atenolol every 12 hours instead of daily, as in some people it does not last a full 24 hours, and the alternate dosing results in more stable blood levels. So you are welcome to try taking X mg in AM, and X mg in PM. Your HR still may stay a little lower, but I wouldn't worry about it too much, and know that your caloric consumption is higher than what the HRM is calculating.
UNLESS, you feel like it is inhibiting your exercise, such as making you short of breath, dizzy, lightheaded, weak, then we could try Titrating down on the dose.

Azdak

THe below is an email exchange I had with my physician and I wanted to share it with you guys as it might answer some questions if you are taking any beta blockers and are using a heart rate monitor. I use mine to get a better caloric burn indicator and I was finding out that my hr was so much higher when I did not take my atenolol and thus my hrm was showing a much lower caloric burn and hr when I was taking the beta blocker. I know what shows up on most of the websites and programs i use is way off in regards to calories burned for alot of excercises. Anyways. I did remove the doctors name from the email and am just showing you whats important. NOthing else was edited out except my dosages on the meds



My first email : I purchased a heart rate monitor through polar to see what my true caloric burn is during aerobic exercising. Today was the first day i used the monitor with the chest strap. I usually do 45 minutes a day of cardio or about 10 to 12 miles a day of cycling. I only did 15 minutes of cardio as of now just to check out the hrm. its telling me my heart rate is out of zone its displaying 105bbm as my max. Based on my health history, the meds im on, what is a good target zone to be out for weight loss. Just to keep you up to date im am down to 247 lbs and on a 1200 calorie diet which is working great. I have been keeping my carbohydrates to a minimum staying away from white starches etc and sticking more to the whole grain foods and protein. Sorry to get off subject but is there a way for you to give me a good zone to reach for my heart rate during excercise.

Hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving!


Doctors Response:

First of all, Congratulations! That is very good.
My only warning is to make sure you are feeling good. It is possible to "overshoot" on your diet if you are doing a lot of cardio activity. If you are feeling lousy I would go a little higher on your caloric intake, such as 1,600 cal/day, but if you feel you can sustain what you are doing on your diet, then that is fine. However, one of the most common problems in diet/exercise is setting up a nonsustainable plan, which is usually from a Very limited diet that limits the amount of AEROBIC exercise you can do, and then people get frustrated and quit. The weight comes off a little slower, but it is sustainable.

For the HR, I suscribe to the Dr. Maffetone equation which is pretty simple. 180 - age. For you that = 145 being the maximum end of your aerobic capacity. Subtract 10 from that, 135, and that is the lower end of what your HR should be for AEROBIC exercise. Any higher, and you will be doing ANAEROBIC exercise, ie exceeding the amount of energy that oxygen alone is able to deliver to your muscles.
HOWEVER, for many people that have recently started exercising, it is reasonable to lower those numbers Another 10 points, so the range being 125-135, until you get a good BASE of aerobic fitness for your muscles before you try to consistently stay in the 135-145 range. Getting that base can take about 2 months, so don't rush it.
Also, it should take about 10-15 mins of warm up before you get into that target range, and you should have a cool down of 10-15 mins after being in that range.
I.e. 10-15 mins warming up, 15 mins in that range, then 10-15 mins cooling down = about a 45 min workout, which can increase once you get more comfortable with it

My reply:

Thanks for the reply. I tried something today to see the difference in my heart rate. Today I skipped my med this morning..the lisinipril, the atenolol..im gonna take it now. of course my heart rate was much higher to start with..yesterday my heart rate started about 85 and i was able to get it up to almost 124. today it started about 105 which im sure is too high at rest even though i was running around town and had some turkey for lunch..not sure if digestion increases heart rate. anyways i was able to 32 minutes of cardio..it took me 6 and a half minutes to get my heart rate above 110 and my average bpm was 136. are the meds im am taking gonna make it harder to lose weight?


Doctors Response

No. They do not affect caloric consumption. The Atenolol will keep your HR on the lower side, but it will not affect wt loss. It is a medication called a Beta Blocker, and if stopped abruptly there is a rebound effect of elevated HR, and it needs to be tapered off of if and when it is discontinued.



My reply

I just got bck from my daily aerobic. i did 30 minutes on the eliptical at a moderate to fast pace and my hrm says i burnt 171 calories my average hpm was 101 with my maximum at 111. I took my atenolol at about 10am this morning. A big difference from yesterday results which was the same amout of time but i burnt365 calories, average hpm was 136 and my max was 149. Im using a high end polar heart rate monitor. Even with the atenolol (spelling sorry), im not coming close to my target heart rate. Should I change my dosage and take half in the monring and half at night or should I just not worry about it and just exercise without worrying about my cardiac output. Sorry for all the questions, but I appreciate any information you can help me with to maximize my weight loss!


Dr. REsponse

Your HR is not necessarily what is burning the calories, but that is all the HRM has to calculate off of. No matter how fancy the device, the caloric consumption is a VERY rough estimate. (A true measure of calories burned would require much more sophisticated testing equipment.)
However, sometimes people do like to take their atenolol every 12 hours instead of daily, as in some people it does not last a full 24 hours, and the alternate dosing results in more stable blood levels. So you are welcome to try taking X mg in AM, and X mg in PM. Your HR still may stay a little lower, but I wouldn't worry about it too much, and know that your caloric consumption is higher than what the HRM is calculating.
UNLESS, you feel like it is inhibiting your exercise, such as making you short of breath, dizzy, lightheaded, weak, then we could try Titrating down on the dose.

Overall the advice is pretty good. Your doctor has most of the basics right, which is not always the case.

One thing he/she was off on was the information about heart rate. For someone not taking any medication, max heart rate can vary and so the exercise numbers he/she was giving were not very precise and not very useful.

In any case, it doesn't make any difference because once you are taking a beta blocker, ALL "heart rate" estimation formulae are unsuitable. You cannot use those numbers at all, not even as a rough estimate. Atenolol can confuse things even more since, as your doctor explained and you experienced, blood levels do not always stay consistent over 24 hours and the time you take the medication can affect heart rate response.

Someone on beta blockers needs to learn how to estimate intensity using Rate of Perceived Exertion. Google that term or Borg RPE Scale for more information.

Your doctor is also correct informing you that your varied heart rate is not affecting your calorie expenditure during exercise. A HRM is ONLY accurate (or as accurate as it can be, which is about 80% at best) during steady state aerobic exercise with a heart rate that is NOT affected by medication or any other external factors such as heat. stress, illness, etc.

In the case of someone taking a beta blocker, the calorie numbers from an HRM are useless. They are based on false assumptions and thus are no different than random numbers.

Cr8tive_Ingenuity

Overall the advice is pretty good. Your doctor has most of the basics right, which is not always the case.

One thing he/she was off on was the information about heart rate. For someone not taking any medication, max heart rate can vary and so the exercise numbers he/she was giving were not very precise and not very useful.

In any case, it doesn't make any difference because once you are taking a beta blocker, ALL "heart rate" estimation formulae are unsuitable. You cannot use those numbers at all, not even as a rough estimate. Atenolol can confuse things even more since, as your doctor explained and you experienced, blood levels do not always stay consistent over 24 hours and the time you take the medication can affect heart rate response.

Someone on beta blockers needs to learn how to estimate intensity using Rate of Perceived Exertion. Google that term or Borg RPE Scale for more information.

Your doctor is also correct informing you that your varied heart rate is not affecting your calorie expenditure during exercise. A HRM is ONLY accurate (or as accurate as it can be, which is about 80% at best) during steady state aerobic exercise with a heart rate that is NOT affected by medication or any other external factors such as heat. stress, illness, etc.

In the case of someone taking a beta blocker, the calorie numbers from an HRM are useless. They are based on false assumptions and thus are no different than random numbers.
[/quote]

thanks for the great info

Cr8tive_Ingenuity

I would probably estimate my perceived exertion to be a 13 on the borg scale..i really apreeciate the information and I guess that hrm i purchased last week is gonna be returned. It would be nice to have a way to calculate my burn but i guess without an elaborate setup, its gonna be impossible. Guess im just gonna have to keep on doing what im doing without worrying about my calories burn.

Azdak

I would probably estimate my perceived exertion to be a 13 on the borg scale..i really apreeciate the information and I guess that hrm i purchased last week is gonna be returned. It would be nice to have a way to calculate my burn but i guess without an elaborate setup, its gonna be impossible. Guess im just gonna have to keep on doing what im doing without worrying about my calories burn.

Yeah, unfortunately beta blockers kind of mess up a lot of the "measuring stuff" we do on MFP.

If you are doing simple things like walking or running, then the calorie estimates on MFP are just as good as an HRM--you just need your weight and the workloads. Calorie counts on commercial stationary bikes should be pretty good as well. Cross trainers--unless you are on a newer model Life Fitness 95X--are not so good--but you can still use the numbers to measure progress.

So you might have some options.

In any case, congrats on your weight loss so far. Trying to lose weight while on a beta blocker is an extra challenge, since they do slow you down a little.

auranda

bump

mnichol

thanks for the info! I'm on that med as well.

goldfinger88

That's very interesting and I for one thank you for posting this. I take a beta blocker too and I'm trying to determine how accurate the calorie burn on it would be for me. I know everything is an estimate at best. I don't care about getting in the zone as I don't buy into that cardio thing. But I do like to track caloric burn in weight lifting, biking and a few things I do. Do you find your calories to be high or low while on your meds? Or do you not know for sure? How close is it to when you don't take the medication?

goldfinger88

Weight loss is "very" hard on a beta blocker. It's taken me a year to lose a mere 12 pounds. Of course, I don't restrict my calories. I eat low glycemic. But I've always found that to be true and what's worse, beta blockers actually CAUSE weight gain. Many people don't know that but it's in the literature.

everytree

I'm on a beta blocker as well and have been for about 3 years. During that time I have put on about 10lbs so not a lot but I'm short and have a very small frame so it is noticeable and I just don't like it. I have been trying to lose some of those extra pods since about March of this year and its not going anywhere. I'm running 3-4 days a week (long runs of approx 10kms on the weekends and shorter runs about 30 mins during the week), going to the gym, etc, etc and I eat very clean although that is how I have always eaten and the weight is going no where. Anyone have any suggestions?

gobraves47

I started beta blockers earlier this year and haven't had any problems losing the weight. It could be because I still have a lot to lose and it will slow down some as I get closer to goal. I don't really know, it might just be something that varies from person to person.

dmpizza

THe below is an email exchange I had with my physician and I wanted to share it with you guys as it might answer some questions if you are taking any beta blockers and are using a heart rate monitor. I use mine to get a better caloric burn indicator and I was finding out that my hr was so much higher when I did not take my atenolol and thus my hrm was showing a much lower caloric burn and hr when I was taking the beta blocker. I know what shows up on most of the websites and programs i use is way off in regards to calories burned for alot of excercises. Anyways. I did remove the doctors name from the email and am just showing you whats important. NOthing else was edited out except my dosages on the meds



My first email : I purchased a heart rate monitor through polar to see what my true caloric burn is during aerobic exercising. Today was the first day i used the monitor with the chest strap. I usually do 45 minutes a day of cardio or about 10 to 12 miles a day of cycling. I only did 15 minutes of cardio as of now just to check out the hrm. its telling me my heart rate is out of zone its displaying 105bbm as my max. Based on my health history, the meds im on, what is a good target zone to be out for weight loss. Just to keep you up to date im am down to 247 lbs and on a 1200 calorie diet which is working great. I have been keeping my carbohydrates to a minimum staying away from white starches etc and sticking more to the whole grain foods and protein. Sorry to get off subject but is there a way for you to give me a good zone to reach for my heart rate during excercise.

Hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving!


Doctors Response:

First of all, Congratulations! That is very good.
My only warning is to make sure you are feeling good. It is possible to "overshoot" on your diet if you are doing a lot of cardio activity. If you are feeling lousy I would go a little higher on your caloric intake, such as 1,600 cal/day, but if you feel you can sustain what you are doing on your diet, then that is fine. However, one of the most common problems in diet/exercise is setting up a nonsustainable plan, which is usually from a Very limited diet that limits the amount of AEROBIC exercise you can do, and then people get frustrated and quit. The weight comes off a little slower, but it is sustainable.

For the HR, I suscribe to the Dr. Maffetone equation which is pretty simple. 180 - age. For you that = 145 being the maximum end of your aerobic capacity. Subtract 10 from that, 135, and that is the lower end of what your HR should be for AEROBIC exercise. Any higher, and you will be doing ANAEROBIC exercise, ie exceeding the amount of energy that oxygen alone is able to deliver to your muscles.
HOWEVER, for many people that have recently started exercising, it is reasonable to lower those numbers Another 10 points, so the range being 125-135, until you get a good BASE of aerobic fitness for your muscles before you try to consistently stay in the 135-145 range. Getting that base can take about 2 months, so don't rush it.
Also, it should take about 10-15 mins of warm up before you get into that target range, and you should have a cool down of 10-15 mins after being in that range.
I.e. 10-15 mins warming up, 15 mins in that range, then 10-15 mins cooling down = about a 45 min workout, which can increase once you get more comfortable with it

My reply:

Thanks for the reply. I tried something today to see the difference in my heart rate. Today I skipped my med this morning..the lisinipril, the atenolol..im gonna take it now. of course my heart rate was much higher to start with..yesterday my heart rate started about 85 and i was able to get it up to almost 124. today it started about 105 which im sure is too high at rest even though i was running around town and had some turkey for lunch..not sure if digestion increases heart rate. anyways i was able to 32 minutes of cardio..it took me 6 and a half minutes to get my heart rate above 110 and my average bpm was 136. are the meds im am taking gonna make it harder to lose weight?


Doctors Response

No. They do not affect caloric consumption. The Atenolol will keep your HR on the lower side, but it will not affect wt loss. It is a medication called a Beta Blocker, and if stopped abruptly there is a rebound effect of elevated HR, and it needs to be tapered off of if and when it is discontinued.



My reply

I just got bck from my daily aerobic. i did 30 minutes on the eliptical at a moderate to fast pace and my hrm says i burnt 171 calories my average hpm was 101 with my maximum at 111. I took my atenolol at about 10am this morning. A big difference from yesterday results which was the same amout of time but i burnt365 calories, average hpm was 136 and my max was 149. Im using a high end polar heart rate monitor. Even with the atenolol (spelling sorry), im not coming close to my target heart rate. Should I change my dosage and take half in the monring and half at night or should I just not worry about it and just exercise without worrying about my cardiac output. Sorry for all the questions, but I appreciate any information you can help me with to maximize my weight loss!


Dr. REsponse

Your HR is not necessarily what is burning the calories, but that is all the HRM has to calculate off of. No matter how fancy the device, the caloric consumption is a VERY rough estimate. (A true measure of calories burned would require much more sophisticated testing equipment.)
However, sometimes people do like to take their atenolol every 12 hours instead of daily, as in some people it does not last a full 24 hours, and the alternate dosing results in more stable blood levels. So you are welcome to try taking X mg in AM, and X mg in PM. Your HR still may stay a little lower, but I wouldn't worry about it too much, and know that your caloric consumption is higher than what the HRM is calculating.
UNLESS, you feel like it is inhibiting your exercise, such as making you short of breath, dizzy, lightheaded, weak, then we could try Titrating down on the dose.

zzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz

Oh sorry, yaaaaawwwwnnn. Yeah, that happened to me too.

carolebville

I'm on a beta blocker as well and have been for about 3 years. During that time I have put on about 10lbs so not a lot but I'm short and have a very small frame so it is noticeable and I just don't like it. I have been trying to lose some of those extra pods since about March of this year and its not going anywhere. I'm running 3-4 days a week (long runs of approx 10kms on the weekends and shorter runs about 30 mins during the week), going to the gym, etc, etc and I eat very clean although that is how I have always eaten and the weight is going no where. Anyone have any suggestions?

I was on a high dose of Atenolol for many, many years and as I put on the pounds, the Dr. kept increasing the dosage. After YEARS of taking Atenolol, it wasn't as effective in the treatment of the high blood pressure readings. Of course, the extra pounds never help either. I remember when I was taking atenolol, I had no energy and felt like a slug. So, my doctor switched me to Avapro and I've had great results with it. Might be worth a conversation with your doctor.

everytree

I'm on a beta blocker as well and have been for about 3 years. During that time I have put on about 10lbs so not a lot but I'm short and have a very small frame so it is noticeable and I just don't like it. I have been trying to lose some of those extra pods since about March of this year and its not going anywhere. I'm running 3-4 days a week (long runs of approx 10kms on the weekends and shorter runs about 30 mins during the week), going to the gym, etc, etc and I eat very clean although that is how I have always eaten and the weight is going no where. Anyone have any suggestions?

I was on a high dose of Atenolol for many, many years and as I put on the pounds, the Dr. kept increasing the dosage. After YEARS of taking Atenolol, it wasn't as effective in the treatment of the high blood pressure readings. Of course, the extra pounds never help either. I remember when I was taking atenolol, I had no energy and felt like a slug. So, my doctor switched me to Avapro and I've had great results with it. Might be worth a conversation with your doctor.

I wish I could come off of it but I'm on it to keep my heart rate under control. Without the meds my resting heart rate skyrockets to about 180 sitting watching tv. So ya...the drugs need to stay so my heart doesn't explode! lol!

janjan212

I know this post is older, but I just wanted to confirm I had a similar conversation with my Dr as to what target HR to "go for" when exercising for weight loss. I am taking a beta blocker. She told me to avoid even looking at the HR monitor on gym equipment as it will not be a true indicator. She told me to use the perceived exertion method also. She said "You'll want to sweat" "You'll want to be breathing noticeably heavier than normal, but not out of breath or panting. She said the important thing is that I am moving and exercising. She advised me to cover up the HR monitor with a towel and just exercise without worrying so much about the numbers. It's worked well for me. I can tell if my body is putting out a good amount of effort, and I've been losing weight and adding endurance. Too bad I didn't realize that before I had spent the money on HR monitors, Bodybugg, Fitbit, etc. A good pedometer might be good, just to measure steps/miles walked.

suz155

Personally, since I have a "heart challenge" and I do take a beta blocker,,,,I like the HRM because, I can keep track of where my pulse is at. I understand that the calorie burn is going to be off, thats a given,,,,but,,,,,it does show me, if Im pushing too hard. If I push too hard, not good for me. So,,,,in a nutshell, yes, it might not show an accurate caloric burn, but, it sure keeps me aware of where my heart rate is and that is a life saver.

ozofeliz

The real problem with beta blockers is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1429255/pdf/brjclinpharm00296-0032.pdf

58Rock

Great post. I also take atenolol and have often wondered what the effect was on my caloric burn since my heart rate during exercise alwasy seemed to be a bit lower. Good to know that there is no relationship between "my" heart rate and caloric burn. Still, I would like to eventually move away from a beta blocker as I continure to improve my fitness level.

bonjalandoni

I would probably estimate my perceived exertion to be a 13 on the borg scale..i really apreeciate the information and I guess that hrm i purchased last week is gonna be returned. It would be nice to have a way to calculate my burn but i guess without an elaborate setup, its gonna be impossible. Guess im just gonna have to keep on doing what im doing without worrying about my calories burn.

Try bodymedia or similar devices if you really want to have something to track your burn... Im on the same boat as you and I am happy with bodymedia.

Serena272

Hi I am on antealol just want to know if anyone on them has tried taking them after you work out,I always take my on in the morning before working out but I am thinking of now taking it after its only and hour and half difference so still taking my meds every day but just making it at its weakest when I excercise any advice would be great xxx

garber6th

My doctor advised me to take my atenolol at night, because it could cause drowsiness. I have had no problem losing weight while taking it, but when I recently had a stress test, I was told I wouldn't have to get my heart rate up quite as high because the atenolol keeps your heart rate lower and they took that into consideration.