So even though you can't gain muscle on a calorie
Replies
-
I could swear my butt got rounder when I was on a deficit (which I'm not anymore). Maybe you are right, maybe I just lost fat from the areas that made it look flatter.
Don't discount "toning." I have to say, one of the things that annoys me is when people categorically say, "There's no such thing as toning." You can see toning yourself.... do nothing for 6 weeks then go for a few big bike rides or do a couple of heavy sessions of squats. After only a few weeks, your butt will feel harder and tighter, your legs will feel more solid, even when relaxed. Have you lost fat to reveal that muscle? No! Have you gained muscle mass? No! (well, maybe a few grams but nothing to make such a solid difference in how the muscles feel). THAT is toning.
Now admittedly, when people say they only want to tone not build muscle, that is kind of annoying - building a bit of muscle is good for everyone. But IMO there is certainly such a thing as "toning" and it does get on my nerves a bit when people are so categorical about its non-existence, just because that was what Big Dave once told them down at the gym.0 -
Of course, there is a difference between looking "toned" (which does require low body fat), and feeling "toned muscles", which as I say is that "no extra mass but feeling perkier" thing you get.... whether it's under a layer of blubber, or not.0
-
Doesn't mean your muscles grew. You've lost some weight and I assume some fat from your arms which would have hidden the muscle and its movement.This has never made sense to me. I started lifting and now I have enough muscle in my arm that I can flex it and it moves...and it didn't before.....so yea, I don't get this "can't build on a deficit thing".
But let's say for example, my biceps. When I flex now, there's a discernible bump. Before I lost weight, when I flexed, there wasn't a discernible bump. I don't think it's *just* a matter that there was a layer of blubber over the muscle.
Think of it like there's a cat laying on your bed. You're going to see it. If there's a cat laying on your bed under a down comforter, you're still going to see that there's a lump there.0 -
I dunno the answer rae but I know what you mean . I got a significant shift in my bicep recently - the way it looks I mean. Strength gains there are pretty steady too (but i realize existing muscle just gets stronger without adding fiber) but probably about 2-3 weeks ago the shape of my arm became noticeably changed. Just extending my arm straight, not flexing or tensing at all, shows some decidedly pronounced and firm bulges that I didn't have before.0
-
Taking a BCAA supplement before working out is also not a bad idea if you're in a deficit, as it will help prevent your body from catabolizing muscle.
What brand is good to take?
And should I take the amount recommended? Or is it different for men and women?0 -
Doesn't mean your muscles grew. You've lost some weight and I assume some fat from your arms which would have hidden the muscle and its movement.This has never made sense to me. I started lifting and now I have enough muscle in my arm that I can flex it and it moves...and it didn't before.....so yea, I don't get this "can't build on a deficit thing".
But let's say for example, my biceps. When I flex now, there's a discernible bump. Before I lost weight, when I flexed, there wasn't a discernible bump. I don't think it's *just* a matter that there was a layer of blubber over the muscle.
Think of it like there's a cat laying on your bed. You're going to see it. If there's a cat laying on your bed under a down comforter, you're still going to see that there's a lump there.
That analogy doesn't really work because the fat doesn't cover ONLY the muscle.. it covers the areas around the muscle which prevents you from seeing the definition. A correct analogy would be if you put the blanket on the cat, but then put extra pillows all around the cat under the blanket. IMO0 -
That analogy doesn't really work because the fat doesn't cover ONLY the muscle.. it covers the areas around the muscle which prevents you from seeing the definition. A correct analogy would be if you put the blanket on the cat, but then put extra pillows all around the cat under the blanket. IMO
True, but if you consider an unflexed muscle as a cat laying down on the bed, and a flexed muscle as a cat standing up on the bed, you should still be able to see the difference between a cat laying down and cat standing up, even if there was a blanket and pillows around the cat. That's what I'm getting at... when my little kitten-like bicep was on my chubby arm, I couldn't see when the cat stood up. Now I can.
Like I said, I don't understand the science of any of it (obviously... by my kitten on a bed analogies! :laugh: ) and the science of it doesn't really matter to me because the science of it is working. And in my case, it's likely to be newbie gains because while I was probably stronger than the average girl who didn't lift due to my lifestyle, working muscles through lifting was a totally new thing for me.0 -
I take both broscience and real science with a grain of salt. None of us are just like each other. None of us live in a laboratory where our diets and workouts are completely controlled. None of us are getting dissected at the end of our workouts to see EXACTLY how much muscle and fat we have.
So... that being said, just do what feels good. If lifting heavy makes you feel good and look good, then do it. If it doesn't, then at least you tried it and you can always stop doing it if it isn't rocking your world.0 -
I was wondering the same thing. I can't believe how shapely my legs have become from running, and I didn't think I had a bunch of fat on my legs. I think being so out of shape helped me a bit so maybe I did gain a VERY small amount of muscle. I really don't care too much I am just thrilled to flex my arm and see something! Very cool. I am really loving lifting and I have only been doing it for a couple of weeks. I am already seeing the transformation.0
-
I guess that's the take away. Who cares if we gain muscle, reshape muscle, lose fat, whatever? Bottom line is we look better, can pick up heavier things, and are healthier so we should be happy.0
-
Shaping does take place, whether adding new muscle fibers or not. This is most true for the new lifter. Over the course of the first few months, they will see increased muscle volume due to the muscle going out of it's way to store glycogen and water during the recovery process and to prepare for regular use. The strength gains come at first very quickly because of improved neuro-muscular efficiency for about the first 6 to 8 weeks. After that, strength gains are the hard work of muscle adaptation to stimuli.
If it is someone who was previously very athletic and lifted before, this will be even more dramatic because they likely had previously added more muscle fiber that is now just lying flat all atrophied.
Those who start this process substantially obese and/or favorable genetics (mesomorph or endomorph with mesomorhic tendencies) have a fair chance of adding more muscle fiber on a modest caloric deficit (1000+ a day caloric deficits need not apply) because their body has plenty of spare energy for muscle recovery and development. That being said, nutrition and sleep also play a big role. These do defy the general rule, and as a result are the exception.0 -
The deficit/muscle building concept is a bit flexible depending on the amount of body fat on a person. The greater the fat stores, the greater the possibility of retaining or building muscle mass, even on a minor deficit - or so I've read
^^ this.
Just because professional body builders can't gain muscle on a calorie deficit doesn't mean that applies to other people. The vast majority of the population can in fact gain muscle while also burning fat (even many conditioned athletes). Unless your body fat percentage is very low, or you're an advanced weight lifter, then you don't have to choose b/w cutting and bulking.0 -
If you have a normal level of body fat, you won't gain muscle on a calorie deficit, as your body will be hanging onto the body fat for use, as body fat serves a lot of metabolic and hormonal functions in the body. If your obese, and have lots of excess fat, than your body will burn fat a little more generously and it's possible to build muscle on a deficit. It's not common, and won't be much, and certainly won't happen for most people.
Remember, adipose tissue is a major endocrine organ, so unless you have a very significant excess of fat, your body will try too hang on to it, in any way possible.0 -
Taking a BCAA supplement before working out is also not a bad idea if you're in a deficit, as it will help prevent your body from catabolizing muscle.
What brand is good to take?
And should I take the amount recommended? Or is it different for men and women?
I take the ON BCAA 5000. Tropical fruit flavor. I take the recommended 2 scoops. I have no idea if it's diff for woman or not.0 -
If you have a normal level of body fat, you won't gain muscle on a calorie deficit, as your body will be hanging onto the body fat for use, as body fat serves a lot of metabolic and hormonal functions in the body. If your obese, and have lots of excess fat, than your body will burn fat a little more generously and it's possible to build muscle on a deficit. It's not common, and won't be much, and certainly won't happen for most people.
Remember, adipose tissue is a major endocrine organ, so unless you have a very significant excess of fat, your body will try too hang on to it, in any way possible.
At what BF% are you drawing that line? Is it some on/off switch at some specific BF%? What you consider "obese" or "excess fat"?0 -
If you have a normal level of body fat, you won't gain muscle on a calorie deficit, as your body will be hanging onto the body fat for use, as body fat serves a lot of metabolic and hormonal functions in the body. If your obese, and have lots of excess fat, than your body will burn fat a little more generously and it's possible to build muscle on a deficit. It's not common, and won't be much, and certainly won't happen for most people.
Remember, adipose tissue is a major endocrine organ, so unless you have a very significant excess of fat, your body will try too hang on to it, in any way possible.
Take a look at this guy's story.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/403233-lost-96lbs-and-made-top-10-in-physique-contest?page=5#posts-57850560 -
Correct. "Tone up" is the correct terminology. Somehow "tone up" drifted over to pilates and yoga and became "toned". So now many females relate "toned" as having the look of a pilates or yoga instructor.deficit, your muscles will still "tone-up" right? Like get reshaped? Butts getting rounder and higher for example. Right? Is "tone-up" the right term for this?
And yeah, I know you can increase strength even if you are not gaining muscle mass.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
So in other words your muscle wasn't conditioned. Also you may not have had any muscle control before.This has never made sense to me. I started lifting and now I have enough muscle in my arm that I can flex it and it moves...and it didn't before.....so yea, I don't get this "can't build on a deficit thing".
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Insertions, muscle length, and actual muscle shape (EX the shape of your biceps don't really change, but they look different when low body exposes them) don't change. I would attribute "rounder" muscles to having less body fat.But anyway, back to my question.... Your muscle does NOT reshape?
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I would certainly like to see peer reviewed clinical study for this. You'd have to be obese/overweight, a newbie, or an athlete returning after a long layoff to put on muscle of any significance.
^^ this.
Just because professional body builders can't gain muscle on a calorie deficit doesn't mean that applies to other people. The vast majority of the population can in fact gain muscle while also burning fat (even many conditioned athletes). Unless your body fat percentage is very low, or you're an advanced weight lifter, then you don't have to choose b/w cutting and bulking.
And you can't cut and bulk at the same time. One is calorie deficit, the other calorie surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I would certainly like to see peer reviewed clinical study for this. You'd have to be obese/overweight, a newbie, or an athlete returning after a long layoff to put on muscle of any significance.
^^ this.
Just because professional body builders can't gain muscle on a calorie deficit doesn't mean that applies to other people. The vast majority of the population can in fact gain muscle while also burning fat (even many conditioned athletes). Unless your body fat percentage is very low, or you're an advanced weight lifter, then you don't have to choose b/w cutting and bulking.
And you can't cut and bulk at the same time. One is calorie deficit, the other calorie surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Taking a BCAA supplement before working out is also not a bad idea if you're in a deficit, as it will help prevent your body from catabolizing muscle.
This is interesting. I am confused about when to take BCAAs and how much. I am very concerned about catabolizing muscle as I am finishing up training for an endurance event. My race (half-marathon) is in January and after that I will switch to more of a lifting focus, but right now I'm doing a ton of cardio all the time.
I am lifting and trying to eat enough quality protein to prevent lean muscle mass loss, and I have been taking some BCAAs too, BUT I thought I read you were supposed to take them *after* a workout? I could swear I thought you were supposed to take them afterwards on an empty stomach and then wait a while to eat a proper meal... But I could have that completely wrong!
Input/suggestions very welcome!0 -
I mix it with my workout water and drink it during. Or after if I don't have access. I do it for recovery and to "try" to eliminate being so sore. Along with upping my protein as much as possible.0
-
Taking a BCAA supplement before working out is also not a bad idea if you're in a deficit, as it will help prevent your body from catabolizing muscle.
Unless you're training fasted, or consuming insufficient protein, there's really no point.0 -
will read later0
-
Regional mass increased/changes are possible, here's a decent study.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/88/6/2251.fullIn summary, the training program used in this study proved effective in eliciting differential changes in regional morphology. Overall, significant increases in soft tissue lean mass and decreases in fat mass were observed. DEXA-assessed changes in leg fat and lean mass corresponded well to MRI-assessed changes in a subset of 11 women. This study represents one of the few attempts to document concomitant upper body, lower body, and truncal adaptations in soft tissue fat, lean mass, and bone mineral content in response to extended exercise training. The findings of this study extend current knowledge of regional body tissue plasticity and demonstrate differential regional adaptations. Meaningful information can be obtained from consideration of regional body composition changes rather than of whole body changes alone.0 -
I would certainly like to see peer reviewed clinical study for this. You'd have to be obese/overweight, a newbie, or an athlete returning after a long layoff to put on muscle of any significance.
^^ this.
Just because professional body builders can't gain muscle on a calorie deficit doesn't mean that applies to other people. The vast majority of the population can in fact gain muscle while also burning fat (even many conditioned athletes). Unless your body fat percentage is very low, or you're an advanced weight lifter, then you don't have to choose b/w cutting and bulking.
And you can't cut and bulk at the same time. One is calorie deficit, the other calorie surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
We all agree that while on a calorie defecit you can gain muscles as a newbie, but can't as a professional. The question is: what about average people? Goodluck finding a peer reviewed journal article that has such a patient population. Why don't you try and find one?
Here's an anecdote from super trainer Charles Poloquin. He was working with a professional hockey player that managed to both burn fat and build muscle at the same time:
http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/291/German_Body_Comp_for_Athletes.aspx0 -
Burden of proof isn't on me.We all agree that while on a calorie defecit you can gain muscles as a newbie, but can't as a professional. The question is: what about average people? Goodluck finding a peer reviewed journal article that has such a patient population. Why don't you try and find one?
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Taking a BCAA supplement before working out is also not a bad idea if you're in a deficit, as it will help prevent your body from catabolizing muscle.
Unless you're training fasted, or consuming insufficient protein, there's really no point.
Why do you think so? And do you think that only applies to fasted weight training -- or fasted exercise of any kind?
(Not meant as a snotty answer, I am truly trying to understand BCAA supplementation better.)0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions