Shock the body?

Silverkittycat

It depends on what hormones you're looking at. Some hormones are primarily regulated at a transcriptional level, which takes a while, while others can be regulated covalently and switched on/off almost immediately. When you go from a post-prandial or fasted state to a fed state, the hormones and enzymes that were causing gluconeogenesis and lypolysis are switched off immediately via covalent and allosteric regulation by hormones/enzymes that turn on lipogenesis and glycogenesis. Others, like fatty acid synthase, are transcrptionally regulated after hours/days of overnutrition. The body is never 'fooled', but in the same token, you can attempt to manipulate hormone levels, like carbing-up to increase insulin and glycogen synthesis.

Right, but how many hours/days for each to switch on/off? and how much does it vary depending on the individual? Sorry if I'm asking something silly, I just can't find anything that answers or explains it very well.

Oh, I'm asking about nutrition here.

songbyrdsweet

It depends on what hormones you're looking at. Some hormones are primarily regulated at a transcriptional level, which takes a while, while others can be regulated covalently and switched on/off almost immediately. When you go from a post-prandial or fasted state to a fed state, the hormones and enzymes that were causing gluconeogenesis and lypolysis are switched off immediately via covalent and allosteric regulation by hormones/enzymes that turn on lipogenesis and glycogenesis. Others, like fatty acid synthase, are transcrptionally regulated after hours/days of overnutrition. The body is never 'fooled', but in the same token, you can attempt to manipulate hormone levels, like carbing-up to increase insulin and glycogen synthesis.

Right, but how many hours/days for each to switch on/off? and how much does it vary depending on the individual? Sorry if I'm asking something silly, I just can't find anything that answers or explains it very well.

Oh, I'm asking about nutrition here.

Some of them are really within minutes...once you turn fat synthesis on, fat oxidation turns off. Happens within a few minutes of eating a meal. 3-18 hours after the meal you are post-prandial and fat oxidation kicks back on. 18hrs-2 days of fasting and you'll see genes for protein degredation turn on. After a couple days, that turns off again until you're near death, and then turns back on. It's really more complex that I want to write about right now. :laugh:

RAFValentina

You can start here:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-1.html

This is a 6 part series and I recommend it. Increasingly more important in lean individuals but nonetheless, a great read.

Agree with your previous post here saying it's good for sanity and mental wellbeing! I did 40 days solid intense cardio training and dieting... did lose a lot of weight and didn't plateau but I needed this weekend to realise I was going TOO low and give my body some rest and my head some rest from ridiculous calorie counting! I went out got drunk...too thin to drink well was sick...stuffed myself silly on saturday and ate healthily today... I wouldn't reccomend the being so drunk you were sick... that wasn't intentional... and proof I suppose that I had gone too far.

I had a laugh and got some good memories and great photos... used today to reevaluate my goals etc.

Silverkittycat

Some of them are really within minutes...once you turn fat synthesis on, fat oxidation turns off. Happens within a few minutes of eating a meal. 3-18 hours after the meal you are post-prandial and fat oxidation kicks back on. 18hrs-2 days of fasting and you'll see genes for protein degredation turn on. After a couple days, that turns off again until you're near death, and then turns back on. It's really more complex that I want to write about right now.

No problem! Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I'm off to see if I can find anything showing how quickly leptin drops after a "cheat" meal or day. To be honest I thought the whole leptin thing went away a few years back, but I keep seeing it mentioned here on MFP. Now I'm curious to see if anything ever came of all that research. :laugh:

songbyrdsweet

Some of them are really within minutes...once you turn fat synthesis on, fat oxidation turns off. Happens within a few minutes of eating a meal. 3-18 hours after the meal you are post-prandial and fat oxidation kicks back on. 18hrs-2 days of fasting and you'll see genes for protein degredation turn on. After a couple days, that turns off again until you're near death, and then turns back on. It's really more complex that I want to write about right now.

No problem! Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I'm off to see if I can find anything showing how quickly leptin drops after a "cheat" meal or day. To be honest I thought the whole leptin thing went away a few years back but now I'm curious to see if anything ever came of all that research. :laugh:

Leptin is released by adipose tissue in relation to the amount you have. It's transcriptionally regulated. So having 1 cheat meal isn't going to influence it to any great amount...you'd need to actually gain body fat.

ATT949

It seems to me that what you're asking for as far as proof/evidence, is what you're getting from everyone here but you're not really seeing it. Scientific proof isn't necessarily in tangible evidence, especially when dealing with the human body, but moreover repeated and consistent results when conducting an experiment.

If everyone who does this type of dieting/exercising switch-up indicates that it works, then that is the proof that it works. It's silly to say that you need ACTUAL PROOF because there isn't a way to provide any type of tangible evidence for this type of hypothesis. The fact of the matter is that the experts recommend changing your dietary and exercise routines for increased weight loss based on studies of how the human body and metabolism work - and I, and obviously many others, can tell you for a fact that it works. So there you have it. :-)

"The plural of anecdote is not data."

What the OP seems to be looking is feedback from people who can provide insight or links into how something works. There's no problem with a lot of folks posting what they believe is true but my critical thinking skills require evidence, not observations.

A good starting point would be to explain why something happens. For example, many folks swear that they lose more weight when they eat more. I have no doubt that many folks believe this but I've yet to see an actual explanation as to how this works. And having an explanation of how something works is what separates science from magic.

Personally, I have no problem with people expressing their feelings and sharing what they think work. I may even do that myself from time to time. What is very valuable in establishing credibility are links to medical sources - not copy and paste from a Yahoo article or a link to yet another lengthy essay about "starvation mode" or a paraphrasing of a Wiki article. What helps me are links to research papers, results of clinical trials, etc.

Here's an excellent example:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2002/aug/080802.html

The author is an MD, a professor at a Tier 1 school, and the author of a book on the subject matter. He presents his thesis, states his methods, argues his points, provides an abstract and a summary.

Same subject, different source, similar conclusion, but not as credible:
http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp

A final example is a fellow who "dramatically lost 30 pounds in 90 days" or somesuch and who warned everyone that they had to cut out black pepper to lose weight quickly. There were no citations, footnotes, caveats, etc. Just a fellow who was really, really proud of himself making a statement that failed to fit into any part of understanding of how our body handles food. Without supporting evidence, with a thesis that runs contrary to anything observable, and that offers no insight into how black pepper stops us from losing weight, his posting, while enthusiastic, was of little value to me.

So, it's not that the OP is blowing off the beliefs of posters but perhaps she's not convinced because the replies are just repeating people's impressions rather than offering information that backs up their assertions.

RonSwanson66

For example, many folks swear that they lose more weight when they eat more. I have no doubt that many folks believe this but I've yet to see an actual explanation as to how this works.

Spontaneous upregulation of NEAT. Dropping calories too low can lead to an unconscious decrease in activity, while eating more can reverse the trend

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/286/5/E675.long

BobbyClerici

Tons but first you must get to the point where you reach a plateau in your workout and diet.

When this happens, shake things up. It works.
Change what you do for cardio and resistance. And once a week allow yourself a free day to account for your body's tendency to down-regulate the effects of dieting.

This is what folks do to break through those times when walls form blocking progress.
I lost over 60 lbs this way, and I eat over 3000 calories daily while most others are starving themselves on their rabbit diets.

No thanks to that!

RonSwanson66

Tons but first you must get to the point where you reach a plateau in your workout and diet.

When this happens, shake things up. It works.
Change what you do for cardio and resistance. And once a week allow yourself a free day to account for your body's tendency to down-regulate the effects of dieting.

This is what folks do to break through those times when walls form blocking progress.
I lost over 60 lbs this way, and I eat over 3000 calories daily while most others are starving themselves on their rabbit diets.

No thanks to that!

What the OP seems to be looking is feedback from people who can provide insight or links into how something works. There's no problem with a lot of folks posting what they believe is true but my critical thinking skills require evidence, not observations.

KellyBurton1

Tons but first you must get to the point where you reach a plateau in your workout and diet.

When this happens, shake things up. It works.
Change what you do for cardio and resistance. And once a week allow yourself a free day to account for your body's tendency to down-regulate the effects of dieting.

This is what folks do to break through those times when walls form blocking progress.
I lost over 60 lbs this way, and I eat over 3000 calories daily while most others are starving themselves on their rabbit diets.

No thanks to that!

What the OP seems to be looking is feedback from people who can provide insight or links into how something works. There's no problem with a lot of folks posting what they believe is true but my critical thinking skills require evidence, not observations.

Love it!!!!

BobbyClerici

Have a great day

LabRat529

Thanks everyone for the responses!!