Study: Brain injury from high-fat foods may be why diets fai

PJilly

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017122171_brain30m.html

Soon after eating a high-fat diet, humans and rodents begin to show evidence of injury to the part of the brain that regulates weight, according to a new study from the University of Washington and other institutions.

Has anybody else heard/read about this?

The study does acknowledge, "We did not prove cause and effect between the hypothalamic neuron injury and defense of elevated body weight — that comes next."

I'll be interested to hear the results of studies to come.

neanderthin

Well, they talk about obesity as being the cause..........yet haven't actually proved anything, yet go on to say that a high fat diet is the cause.........useless article, like most journalistic diatribe on nutrition.

RobynC79

Well, they talk about obesity as being the cause..........yet haven't actually proved anything, yet go on to say that a high fat diet is the cause.........useless article, like most journalistic diatribe on nutrition.

This is a really interesting study. If anything, the write-up in the newspaper does it a bit of a disservice. The authors show elevation in inflammatory makers in the brains (and other body areas) of rats after consumption of a high-fat diet (HFD). They carefully address the confounding factor of obesity here: (this is a direct copy from the original scientific article, so it's science-speak)

"Since rats fed the HFD for 4 weeks gained more than 50 g more body weight and more than 10% more fat mass than chow-fed controls over the same time frame (data not shown), it remains possible that hypothalamic inflammation at this time point is a consequence of obesity. To address this question, we analyzed hypothalamic proinflammatory gene expression in rats during the initial phase of HFD feeding. Relative to that of chow-fed controls, rats placed on the HFD exhibited a transient but robust (50%–100%) increase of food intake (Figure 1, G and H) that gave rise to a small but significant increase of body weight and fat mass by day 7 (Figure 1F). In this cohort, gene expression analysis revealed a complex “on-off-on” pattern, with elevated hypothalamic levels of Il6, Tnfa, Socs3, Ikbkb, and Ikbke mRNA observed within the first 3 days of HFD exposure, followed by a decline to baseline values from days 7 to 14 and a subsequent return to elevated levels by day 28 (Figure 1I). Thus, increases of hypothalamic proinflammatory gene expression closely mirrored changes of energy intake during the first days of HFD feeding, and both occurred prior to significant expansion of body fat mass"

What they show here is that eventually the rats are obese, and at that point it is difficult to distinguish whether the pre-existing obesity or the HFD is causing the inflammation. However in the early stages, before rats gain a substantial amount of weight, the HFD has a similar effect. Thus it is likely (although not conclusive at this stage) that the diet itself, not the resulting obesity is responsible for the brain changes.

Please don't conflate poor science journalism with poor science. Most of these studies are done very carefully and to a high standard. I am aware that for non-scientists getting access to the original reports is hard, but please bear in mind that generally if you think a study is crap, it's probably because it's poorly reported rather than poorly conducted.

krazyforyou

Sorry but I think we dont need any more excuses in being overweight. I personally am owning up to it and making the right choices.

Newfiedan

Unfortunately the diets used for rats and humans differ a great deal showing no true scientific data of any real value to people. Some drugs tested on rats work great but not so much in humans. The human body is quite capable of using fat for energy but alas that is not what makes us fat. Over consumption of carbs, fats, and other macros make us fat in other words overeating makes us fat. It is not right for anyone to demonize any macros like fat, protein, etc when none of them is directly responsible for being fat. The biggest problem these days though is that everyone demonizes either fat or carbs when we need both to shed fat effectively. Healthy fat intake suffers and in most cases saturated fats can aid in fat loss to a degree when on low fat diets. On low carb diets the body initially will shed more fat but it will adapt over time. There is no magic bullet to fat loss other than eating a better diet, sensible caloric intake and exercise although it can take up to 6 months of exercise to impact fat loss. Cutting cals to aggressively will result in muscle loss, so losing it slowly makes the most sense if we want to make it last.

skinnylove00

Sorry but I think we dont need any more excuses in being overweight. I personally am owning up to it and making the right choices.

AMEN TO THIS!

TheAnie

Sorry but I think we dont need any more excuses in being overweight. I personally am owning up to it and making the right choices.

I don't think this is about making excuses for being overweight. This is about the science of weight gain and loss. I'm interested in the hows and whys because it leads to better decision making on my part. Isn't that part of calorie counting anyways? The science aspect. Most dieters know not all calories are equal, but the reason why is just as important as knowing the basic idea.

BeckyAnneGreenGables

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

PJilly

Sorry but I think we dont need any more excuses in being overweight. I personally am owning up to it and making the right choices.

I don't think this is about making excuses for being overweight. This is about the science of weight gain and loss. I'm interested in the hows and whys because it leads to better decision making on my part. Isn't that part of calorie counting anyways? The science aspect. Most dieters know not all calories are equal, but the reason why is just as important as knowing the basic idea.

Well said. I agree.

neanderthin

Well, they talk about obesity as being the cause..........yet haven't actually proved anything, yet go on to say that a high fat diet is the cause.........useless article, like most journalistic diatribe on nutrition.

This is a really interesting study. If anything, the write-up in the newspaper does it a bit of a disservice. The authors show elevation in inflammatory makers in the brains (and other body areas) of rats after consumption of a high-fat diet (HFD). They carefully address the confounding factor of obesity here: (this is a direct copy from the original scientific article, so it's science-speak)

"Since rats fed the HFD for 4 weeks gained more than 50 g more body weight and more than 10% more fat mass than chow-fed controls over the same time frame (data not shown), it remains possible that hypothalamic inflammation at this time point is a consequence of obesity. To address this question, we analyzed hypothalamic proinflammatory gene expression in rats during the initial phase of HFD feeding. Relative to that of chow-fed controls, rats placed on the HFD exhibited a transient but robust (50%–100%) increase of food intake (Figure 1, G and H) that gave rise to a small but significant increase of body weight and fat mass by day 7 (Figure 1F). In this cohort, gene expression analysis revealed a complex “on-off-on” pattern, with elevated hypothalamic levels of Il6, Tnfa, Socs3, Ikbkb, and Ikbke mRNA observed within the first 3 days of HFD exposure, followed by a decline to baseline values from days 7 to 14 and a subsequent return to elevated levels by day 28 (Figure 1I). Thus, increases of hypothalamic proinflammatory gene expression closely mirrored changes of energy intake during the first days of HFD feeding, and both occurred prior to significant expansion of body fat mass"

What they show here is that eventually the rats are obese, and at that point it is difficult to distinguish whether the pre-existing obesity or the HFD is causing the inflammation. However in the early stages, before rats gain a substantial amount of weight, the HFD has a similar effect. Thus it is likely (although not conclusive at this stage) that the diet itself, not the resulting obesity is responsible for the brain changes.

Please don't conflate poor science journalism with poor science. Most of these studies are done very carefully and to a high standard. I am aware that for non-scientists getting access to the original reports is hard, but please bear in mind that generally if you think a study is crap, it's probably because it's poorly reported rather than poorly conducted.

Oh, I hear ya. Conducting rat studies on subjects that are predisposed for obesity and overfed with a high fat content might be interesting but not very conclusive and certainly shouldn't be considered caustion in humans. We're not rats, and why I would discount that or any other study.....interesting yes, but headlines, I quess if your looking for a story to put a spin on and keep the pay cheque coming. Calling inflammation a brain injury was cute though.

amiller7x7

I saw the newspaper article yesterday - I agree that it can be too easy to blame something for a condition (like being overweight) rather than take personal responsibility for managing it; that would be taking the article out of context - however, it seems that most third-party studies (ie not a proponent of one approach or another) have concluded that weight loss diets per se have an atrocious long-term success rate. Trying to understand better how our physiology responds to weight loss efforts could give us additional tools to use to improve the long-term success rate. It doesn't mean that we are victims of our brain systems but that there may be additional factors we need to address to enhance our ability to be successful. Given the wide range of responses people have to the same stimuli (eg food), a one-size solution for all may not be in the cards. I think this study is one small step in a longer journey of learning tools and concepts that may make it easier for us to achieve whatever our goals are. I don't see it suggesting that anyone must be a victim to the factors they studied but it may be a pathway that provides better ways to manage how you react to various food inputs.

LabRat529

Well... actually...

I'm a research scientist and I work in a research lab studying Alzheimer's disease. I work with a woman who's a PhD nutritionist. Guess what her project is? She's studying the long-term effects of obesity on the brain as they relate to Alzhiemer's disease (little fat mice are SOOOOOOOOOO cute).

There IS evidence that chronic obesity causes brain damage. Obesity leads to chronic, system-wide inflammation. Those inflammatory molecules can activate certain inflammatory-response cells in the brain. As usual, activation of various inflammatory pathways in times of crisis is good. Long-term activation is bad. The brain DOES sustain some damage over time and the chronically obese are more susceptible to Alzheimer's because of it. They are probably more susceptible to other brain-disorders, but I don't know about that because that's not my field.

These effects are separate from the damage caused by other obesity-related diseases. Diabetes cause brain damage. Chronic high blood pressure can cause problems in the brain and leads to stroke which causes pretty serious brain damage.

Does any of this make it harder for the obese person to lose weight? Err...... maybe? But I hope it provides more motivation too. Because hard or not, we need to lose weight to be healthy and to prevent doing more damage than we've already done to ourselves.

claireputput

I would say that a study documenting the cycle of weight gain and fat intake and the effects is very important. Of course rats or mice are used for this research. They reproduce rapidly, there numbers allow for plenty of test subjects-think about it the experiments can be conducted on their children and their children's children in a relatively short time. They are mammals. We have gotten many medical solutions from research and I hope this also adds to that data. Of course I own my weight but if there is information that affects me and my weight gain, then yes, I want to know.

LabRat529

Unfortunately the diets used for rats and humans differ a great deal showing no true scientific data of any real value to people. Some drugs tested on rats work great but not so much in humans. The human body is quite capable of using fat for energy but alas that is not what makes us fat. Over consumption of carbs, fats, and other macros make us fat in other words overeating makes us fat. It is not right for anyone to demonize any macros like fat, protein, etc when none of them is directly responsible for being fat. The biggest problem these days though is that everyone demonizes either fat or carbs when we need both to shed fat effectively. Healthy fat intake suffers and in most cases saturated fats can aid in fat loss to a degree when on low fat diets. On low carb diets the body initially will shed more fat but it will adapt over time. There is no magic bullet to fat loss other than eating a better diet, sensible caloric intake and exercise although it can take up to 6 months of exercise to impact fat loss. Cutting cals to aggressively will result in muscle loss, so losing it slowly makes the most sense if we want to make it last.

The thing about rats is only part true. You are right that we can't know with certainty that something in mice/rats is also a factor in humans. And you are right that drugs tested in rats do not always work so well in humans. However, I've noticed people devalue animal studies when it's most convenient for them and cling to them like a child to his favorite blankie when it's not convenient. Animal studies have their place in science. The work needs to be verified in humans. But it should never be dismissed out-right.

About the macros issue- I personally think it's OBESITY that is the problem, not the macro being consumed in large quantities. But that is my personal opinion. I am not an expert on nutrition and would need to do some more research before I felt comfortable crusading for my opinion.

spottedlee

UW has a reputation of being one of national's best treatment/study center. I know cuz I was referred there for my MBI from car accident. Model study as they call it, is funded by Uncle Sam.. If they said it, it's probaby true.

BTW, I live near Seattle.

neanderthin

Unfortunately the diets used for rats and humans differ a great deal showing no true scientific data of any real value to people. Some drugs tested on rats work great but not so much in humans. The human body is quite capable of using fat for energy but alas that is not what makes us fat. Over consumption of carbs, fats, and other macros make us fat in other words overeating makes us fat. It is not right for anyone to demonize any macros like fat, protein, etc when none of them is directly responsible for being fat. The biggest problem these days though is that everyone demonizes either fat or carbs when we need both to shed fat effectively. Healthy fat intake suffers and in most cases saturated fats can aid in fat loss to a degree when on low fat diets. On low carb diets the body initially will shed more fat but it will adapt over time. There is no magic bullet to fat loss other than eating a better diet, sensible caloric intake and exercise although it can take up to 6 months of exercise to impact fat loss. Cutting cals to aggressively will result in muscle loss, so losing it slowly makes the most sense if we want to make it last.

The thing about rats is only part true. You are right that we can't know with certainty that something in mice/rats is also a factor in humans. And you are right that drugs tested in rats do not always work so well in humans. However, I've noticed people devalue animal studies when it's most convenient for them and cling to them like a child to his favorite blankie when it's not convenient. Animal studies have their place in science. The work needs to be verified in humans. But it should never be dismissed out-right.

About the macros issue- I personally think it's OBESITY that is the problem, not the macro being consumed in large quantities. But that is my personal opinion. I am not an expert on nutrition and would need to do some more research before I felt comfortable crusading for my opinion.

What's the effect on Alzheimer’s in relation to a ketogenic diet, which is by defaualt a high fat diet? Also i remember some studies that showed a decrease in inflammation with a ketogenic diet as well. I kinda agree with your assessment that obesity may be the bigger cataylist for systemic inflammation and compromised immune systems causing an increase in cytokines.

RobynC79

Oh, I hear ya. Conducting rat studies on subjects that are predisposed for obesity and overfed with a high fat content might be interesting but not very conclusive and certainly shouldn't be considered caustion in humans. We're not rats, and why I would discount that or any other study.....interesting yes, but headlines, I quess if your looking for a story to put a spin on and keep the pay cheque coming. Calling inflammation a brain injury was cute though.

Actually inflammatory markers are a solid proxy for actual injury. In lieu of actually sectioning the brains and looking for physical damage (which obviously can't be done in a longitudinal study, since it requires killing the rats), looking for inflammation is the next best thing. Perhaps the journalist reporting the study could have been more explicit about the variables being tracked, but for all intents and purposes, inflammation is a good indicator of injury.

A lot of basic physiological research is done on rodents - no, they're not humans, but in many respects their physiology is sufficiently similar to make comparisons. No one is saying this is exactly what happens in humans, but the argument that rodent studies are useless is a straw man. And the authors are EXPLICITLY stating that their study does not imply direct causation, but that it might be the focus for future studies. I understand you want to be critical because that's part of being informed and I commend you for that, but please don't throw unjustified criticism at a solid, interesting study.

darlilama

Very interesting! I'd be interested in hearing more results! It seems like an obvious conclusion that being obese (or even significantly overweight) is damaging to the body - not to mention the self-esteem . However, it is interesting seeing research done to determine exactly in what ways that happens.

neanderthin

Oh, I hear ya. Conducting rat studies on subjects that are predisposed for obesity and overfed with a high fat content might be interesting but not very conclusive and certainly shouldn't be considered caustion in humans. We're not rats, and why I would discount that or any other study.....interesting yes, but headlines, I quess if your looking for a story to put a spin on and keep the pay cheque coming. Calling inflammation a brain injury was cute though.

Actually inflammatory markers are a solid proxy for actual injury. In lieu of actually sectioning the brains and looking for physical damage (which obviously can't be done in a longitudinal study, since it requires killing the rats), looking for inflammation is the next best thing. Perhaps the journalist reporting the study could have been more explicit about the variables being tracked, but for all intents and purposes, inflammation is a good indicator of injury.

A lot of basic physiological research is done on rodents - no, they're not humans, but in many respects their physiology is sufficiently similar to make comparisons. No one is saying this is exactly what happens in humans, but the argument that rodent studies are useless is a straw man. And the authors are EXPLICITLY stating that their study does not imply direct causation, but that it might be the focus for future studies. I understand you want to be critical because that's part of being informed and I commend you for that, but please don't throw unjustified criticism at a solid, interesting study.

Yes I know inflammation causes injury. It was the headline that I though more jounalistic than scientific.

darlilama

Sorry but I think we dont need any more excuses in being overweight. I personally am owning up to it and making the right choices.

I don't think this is about making excuses for being overweight. This is about the science of weight gain and loss. I'm interested in the hows and whys because it leads to better decision making on my part. Isn't that part of calorie counting anyways? The science aspect. Most dieters know not all calories are equal, but the reason why is just as important as knowing the basic idea.

Agree.

Hoppymom

I saw the newspaper article yesterday - I agree that it can be too easy to blame something for a condition (like being overweight) rather than take personal responsibility for managing it; that would be taking the article out of context - however, it seems that most third-party studies (ie not a proponent of one approach or another) have concluded that weight loss diets per se have an atrocious long-term success rate. Trying to understand better how our physiology responds to weight loss efforts could give us additional tools to use to improve the long-term success rate. It doesn't mean that we are victims of our brain systems but that there may be additional factors we need to address to enhance our ability to be successful. Given the wide range of responses people have to the same stimuli (eg food), a one-size solution for all may not be in the cards. I think this study is one small step in a longer journey of learning tools and concepts that may make it easier for us to achieve whatever our goals are. I don't see it suggesting that anyone must be a victim to the factors they studied but it may be a pathway that provides better ways to manage how you react to various food inputs.

I read the study and ^^^this^^^ states my POV quite well.

LilMissFoodie

What's the effect on Alzheimer’s in relation to a ketogenic diet, which is by defaualt a high fat diet? I kinda agree with your assessment that obesity may be the bigger cataylist for systemic inflammation and compromised immune systems causing an increase in cytokines.

I was thinking about whether there might be some correlation between the 2 just the other day (although it was more of an inside my head and less of a researched thought process). It would make sense to me that they might be linked - given the relationship between carbohydrates and optimal brain function.

I don't really know if it is just because ketogenic diets haven't been around for very long but I speak to 10 different elderly people every single day about what they eat and all of them eat a 'high' carbohydrate or a standard diet. Even the ones with diabetes or other medical conditions. I guess when I meet a 90-105 year old that eats a ketogenic diet then maybe I will be more open to it's long term safety.

neanderthin

What's the effect on Alzheimer’s in relation to a ketogenic diet, which is by defaualt a high fat diet? I kinda agree with your assessment that obesity may be the bigger cataylist for systemic inflammation and compromised immune systems causing an increase in cytokines.

I was thinking about whether there might be some correlation between the 2 just the other day (although it was more of an inside my head and less of a researched thought process). It would make sense to me that they might be linked - given the relationship between carbohydrates and optimal brain function.

I don't really know if it is just because ketogenic diets haven't been around for very long but I speak to 10 different elderly people every single day about what they eat and all of them eat a 'high' carbohydrate or a standard diet. Even the ones with diabetes or other medical conditions. I guess when I meet a 90-105 year old that eats a ketogenic diet then maybe I will be more open to it's long term safety.

From what I understand the ketogenic shows a positive effect on Alzheimer’s as it does on other autoimmune diseases and why I asked someone who specializes in that field....curiosity on my part.

LabRat529

What's the effect on Alzheimer’s in relation to a ketogenic diet, which is by defaualt a high fat diet? Also i remember some studies that showed a decrease in inflammation with a ketogenic diet as well. I kinda agree with your assessment that obesity may be the bigger cataylist for systemic inflammation and compromised immune systems causing an increase in cytokines.

What's the effect of a ketogenic diet on Alzheimer's? Well... the waters are murky I don't really know for sure yet. There are some studies that show an improvement in some patients, but there are so many confounding variable that it's hard to know if it's ketosis that's causing the benefits.

However... that is one of the reasons I tend to place greater blame on obesity than on the macro-nutrients in the diet.

BeLightYear

bumping to read when I go back to work:happy:

fteale

I don't have the time to research it right now, but does it state what is classified as a high fat diet by the study, and what types of fat? Is it high overall fat, or just saturated? Or trans fats?

unmitigatedbadassery

Thanks for posting but I have done a study on my own.

Why I'm fat = I like Doritos and donuts and I don't move as much as I should.
Why I'm losing it = because I almost died twice, there won't be a third time to cheat death.
How I'm losing it = NOT eating Doritos and donuts and moving more.

That's all the research I need.

Silverkittycat

hmmm....fat is 45% of my diet. :ohwell:

I've never been overweight so I hope the inflammation is caused by obesity and not dietary fat.

About the macros issue- I personally think it's OBESITY that is the problem, not the macro being consumed in large quantities. But that is my personal opinion.

I'll stick with Rebekah's opinion.

Jeff92se

I thought inflammation was from too many simple carbs?

LabRat529

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22201683

Here's the actual article for those who want it... It's available to everyone. The results are very interesting and the newspaper article does not present the info well.

LabRat529

P.S. for those saying this study has no relevance because it was done in rats, there is a section correlating the results in humans- they used MRI to look for gliosis (inflammation of a class of non-neuronal brain cells). It's just correlative... but combined with the other results, it's compelling. It doesn't really change my opinion about macros... yet... but it's interesting none-the-less.