Refeed/diet break or cut calories lower - a plateau discussi

stroutman81

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/q-a-to-cut-calories-or-take-a-diet-break-refeed-when-stalled-188547

lemonadem

Awesome read, definitely worth the time... thank you Steve!

hottottie11

Very informative! Thanks for posting!

Sidesteal

Thanks Steve!

april_beth

its a great read but i still dont know how to deal with my plateau since june. i gain and lose the same 5 lbs and i assumed it was my drinking but i can tell you i've had weeks of many nights of drinking and weeks with little to no nights of drinking and staying the course with my eating usually and it's STILL up and down five pounds...im not close to my goal so im frustrated as *kitten*....and im sure im going to hear do weights, change up your cardio routine, dont expect miracles of the scale gods to grant you *kitten* in one weeks time...but i mean come on already...there are plenty of people who drink like fishes on a constant basis and are still gradually losing...or theyre zigzagging their calories and losing (which i tried but clearly did something wrong since it didnt work for crap) and im not willing to try any specialized "south beach diet" or anything becuase that is not realistic to me. i am the firm believer that *this* is how i am to eat for life, not some "diet" craze to push through a plateau. restriction of that sort pisses me off and doesnt help me - it's only counterproductive...*sigh* maybe i need to go reread what you wrote cause im a fast reader and i probably missed the point and am only wasting precious typing time here talking to myself

tuffytuffy1

Bump

_GlaDOS_

This is excellent!

I stopped losing weight (gaining and losing the same 3-4 lbs) for almost 5 months, tried everything people told me to try, and it wasn't until mid-December when I realize that emotionally/psychologically, I was absolutely burned out from exercising so much and eating at a deficit. It no longer was a large deficit with tons of cardio, but it was still draining. I did get a BMF and start using it in November, and lost a lb, but then nothing for the next few weeks. I took a break, ate at maintenance or a little above for 2 weeks, and over that week and the week of Christmas, I lost a total of 2.8 lbs. Not only that, but emotionally and psychologically I just feel so much better. I am back at a deficit now and so much more relaxed about counting calories and eating at a deficit because I took some time to stop being so obsessed with it.

Anyway, I really think it can work for some people, so thanks for writing this. :flowerforyou:

nowornever78

Bump

stroutman81

its a great read but i still dont know how to deal with my plateau since june. i gain and lose the same 5 lbs and i assumed it was my drinking but i can tell you i've had weeks of many nights of drinking and weeks with little to no nights of drinking and staying the course with my eating usually and it's STILL up and down five pounds...im not close to my goal so im frustrated as *kitten*....and im sure im going to hear do weights, change up your cardio routine, dont expect miracles of the scale gods to grant you *kitten* in one weeks time...but i mean come on already...there are plenty of people who drink like fishes on a constant basis and are still gradually losing...or theyre zigzagging their calories and losing (which i tried but clearly did something wrong since it didnt work for crap) and im not willing to try any specialized "south beach diet" or anything becuase that is not realistic to me. i am the firm believer that *this* is how i am to eat for life, not some "diet" craze to push through a plateau. restriction of that sort pisses me off and doesnt help me - it's only counterproductive...*sigh* maybe i need to go reread what you wrote cause im a fast reader and i probably missed the point and am only wasting precious typing time here talking to myself

Well why don't you answer the questions I posed in each of the points and we'll see if we can trouble shoot you?

Silverkittycat

Great post, thanks you!

stroutman81

Thanks for the kind words and feedback. And you're very welcome... my pleasure!

morningrunner

Can you troubleshoot me??
1. Plateued for over a year
2. my log is open, so feel free to take a look, but right now I'm eating 1700-1800 a day. Trying to burn 2500-3000 over the course of a week via running, biking, circuit style lifting but with a little bit heavier weights
3. Highest weight = 210. I lost 70 pounds over the course of 2 1/2 years, then gained back 15 very quickly (Summer of 2010) and now I'm stuck!
4. I do not use a food scale

siabevis

bump

Yori1

Bump

justle

bump for later

_GlaDOS_

Can you troubleshoot me??
1. Plateued for over a year
2. my log is open, so feel free to take a look, but right now I'm eating 1700-1800 a day. Trying to burn 2500-3000 over the course of a week via running, biking, circuit style lifting but with a little bit heavier weights
3. Highest weight = 210. I lost 70 pounds over the course of 2 1/2 years, then gained back 15 very quickly (Summer of 2010) and now I'm stuck!
4. I do not use a food scale

OP probably has some good advice for you, but if you want my opinion, you are way undereating, even at 1700-1800 per day. You absolutely need to be eating your exercise calories, especially with those huge burns you have from running and cycling. Yes, that looks like it means 3,000 calories per day sometimes. Or, you can cut back on the exercise. But it is not enough food. I don't even work out as much as you do and I eat more.

Weight lifting can help with your metabolism as well. But it should be high weight, low reps, slow lifting - not circuit training style (which is only really good for muscular endurance).

And I think, if you have been at this plateau now for a year, it's time for a break, and maybe not even just eating at maintenance, but eating over for a while. I would cut back or stop exercising for a while too.

Just my advice. I'm no expert. Just know what has worked for me and a few others. :flowerforyou:

416runner

This is a great post - very helpful. Thanks!

morningrunner

Can you troubleshoot me??
1. Plateued for over a year
2. my log is open, so feel free to take a look, but right now I'm eating 1700-1800 a day. Trying to burn 2500-3000 over the course of a week via running, biking, circuit style lifting but with a little bit heavier weights
3. Highest weight = 210. I lost 70 pounds over the course of 2 1/2 years, then gained back 15 very quickly (Summer of 2010) and now I'm stuck!
4. I do not use a food scale

OP probably has some good advice for you, but if you want my opinion, you are way undereating, even at 1700-1800 per day. You absolutely need to be eating your exercise calories, especially with those huge burns you have from running and cycling. Yes, that looks like it means 3,000 calories per day sometimes. Or, you can cut back on the exercise. But it is not enough food. I don't even work out as much as you do and I eat more.

Weight lifting can help with your metabolism as well. But it should be high weight, low reps, slow lifting - not circuit training style (which is only really good for muscular endurance).

And I think, if you have been at this plateau now for a year, it's time for a break, and maybe not even just eating at maintenance, but eating over for a while. I would cut back or stop exercising for a while too.

Just my advice. I'm no expert. Just know what has worked for me and a few others. :flowerforyou:

Thank you for responding!

Ok, here's the math I figured: Let's pretend I eat exactly 1800 each day and meet my goal of burning 3000. If you add all that up and divide by 7 that would give me a NET each day of around 1371. I feel like that's not crazy low enough to put me in starvation mode, right? I feel like I should at least be losing something.

How much do you try to NET each day?

_GlaDOS_

Thank you for responding!

Ok, here's the math I figured: Let's pretend I eat exactly 1800 each day and meet my goal of burning 3000. If you add all that up and divide by 7 that would give me a NET each day of around 1371. I feel like that's not crazy low enough to put me in starvation mode, right? I feel like I should at least be losing something.

How much do you try to NET each day?

I’m confused by your math, but I’m assuming you mean you burn 3,000 calories per week?

So, you have MFP set up to lose how many lbs per week? 1 lb? If you told MFP you wanted to lose 1 lb per week, and it gave you 1,800 calories, that means it already calculated a 500 calorie deficit per day. So if you did no exercise and ate 1,800 calories, you would be at 500 calorie deficit. If you exercise and burned 1,000 more calories, and did not eat any of those calories back (meaning you still ate 1,800 calories), you would be at a deficit of 1,500 calories that day. Does that sound like a good idea? Besides that, most people tend to say the “sedentary” activity level on here is set pretty low. Most people are “lightly active”, which means you could have a deficit of another 200-300 calories added on to that 1,500 calorie deficit if you are set to “sedentary”. Your body is essentially starving, and storing your fat to survive because it (in evolutionary terms, the way we were “made” to be) is thinking food is scarce. On top of that, running and cycling with not much weight lifting is likely doing some damage as well.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html

funkycamper

Another great article by Steve. I'm slowly reading through all his archived blog posts and his website. Great stuff.

Just a comment based on my own purely anecdotal, non-scientific experience. Whenever I've been in a long plateau, I usually just go to maintenance mode for awhile. I'm not sure if I actually believe in the setpoint theory but, to be honest, I don't know what else to call it. I've not lost all my 65# since being on MFP. I've lost it over a several different dieting/exercising rounds with only the last 20# on MFP. I seem to be able to lose about 20-25# at a shot before I hit a plateau. I just get to a point where I don't lose another pound and no matter how much tweaking I do, I can't shove past it.

This isn't to say that I go back to any binge eating or quit exercising totally. I just become far more relaxed in my approach and have more splurges. The most I've ever gained back is 5#. And then I hold that weight fairly steadily without any effort for some months, and in one case a few years when I was debilitated by a severe back injury, before moving forward again.

It does kinda seem as if my body gets to a new setpoint that it wants to stop at for awhile before moving on. I actually feel that I'm about at that point again. I've lost 20# since August and except for a bit around the holidays, I have been very diligent with diet and exercise so I'm obviously a slow loser anyway. This time around I am incorporating more weight-lifting into my routine to see if that makes a difference for me. I am down a pants size but no change in size on my shirts but they do fit a LOT looser.

Anyway, I'm going to keep on keeping on for another month or two and if I just keep being stalled, and if the tweaking doesn't help, I'm probably going to go on maintenance for a couple of months before trying again. I won't give up the exercising as I've become somewhat addicted but I will raise my calorie levels for awhile but limit myself to only allowing a 5# gain.

Well, that's been my experience, for what little it's worth. In the end, my goal is to lose two more pants sizes and if I get there by lifting and actually gain weight in the process, that's cool with me.

It is an interesting process, that's for sure.

morningrunner

Thank you for responding!

Ok, here's the math I figured: Let's pretend I eat exactly 1800 each day and meet my goal of burning 3000. If you add all that up and divide by 7 that would give me a NET each day of around 1371. I feel like that's not crazy low enough to put me in starvation mode, right? I feel like I should at least be losing something.

How much do you try to NET each day?

I’m confused by your math, but I’m assuming you mean you burn 3,000 calories per week?

So, you have MFP set up to lose how many lbs per week? 1 lb? If you told MFP you wanted to lose 1 lb per week, and it gave you 1,800 calories, that means it already calculated a 500 calorie deficit per day. So if you did no exercise and ate 1,800 calories, you would be at 500 calorie deficit. If you exercise and burned 1,000 more calories, and did not eat any of those calories back (meaning you still ate 1,800 calories), you would be at a deficit of 1,500 calories that day. Does that sound like a good idea? Besides that, most people tend to say the “sedentary” activity level on here is set pretty low. Most people are “lightly active”, which means you could have a deficit of another 200-300 calories added on to that 1,500 calorie deficit if you are set to “sedentary”. Your body is essentially starving, and storing your fat to survive because it (in evolutionary terms, the way we were “made” to be) is thinking food is scarce. On top of that, running and cycling with not much weight lifting is likely doing some damage as well.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html

Sorry for the confusion - I'm not using MFP's calculations. I used it when I first started and they had me eating even less and the scale still didn't budge.

I'm not trying to lose a certain number per week. Right now I'm just trying to find the magic number of calories to eat everyday that, combined with my lifestyle, will finally get the scale moving back down in the right direction. I'm basing my numbers of of the calorieline TDEE chart that says if I eat 1820-1920 cals I should slowly "drift" down to my goal weight of 130#s. I am not quite eating that much yet, but I'm trying to give myself a buffer in case I am underestimating things. I measure everything, but even so...

_GlaDOS_

Thank you for responding!

Ok, here's the math I figured: Let's pretend I eat exactly 1800 each day and meet my goal of burning 3000. If you add all that up and divide by 7 that would give me a NET each day of around 1371. I feel like that's not crazy low enough to put me in starvation mode, right? I feel like I should at least be losing something.

How much do you try to NET each day?

I’m confused by your math, but I’m assuming you mean you burn 3,000 calories per week?

So, you have MFP set up to lose how many lbs per week? 1 lb? If you told MFP you wanted to lose 1 lb per week, and it gave you 1,800 calories, that means it already calculated a 500 calorie deficit per day. So if you did no exercise and ate 1,800 calories, you would be at 500 calorie deficit. If you exercise and burned 1,000 more calories, and did not eat any of those calories back (meaning you still ate 1,800 calories), you would be at a deficit of 1,500 calories that day. Does that sound like a good idea? Besides that, most people tend to say the “sedentary” activity level on here is set pretty low. Most people are “lightly active”, which means you could have a deficit of another 200-300 calories added on to that 1,500 calorie deficit if you are set to “sedentary”. Your body is essentially starving, and storing your fat to survive because it (in evolutionary terms, the way we were “made” to be) is thinking food is scarce. On top of that, running and cycling with not much weight lifting is likely doing some damage as well.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html

Sorry for the confusion - I'm not using MFP's calculations. I used it when I first started and they had me eating even less and the scale still didn't budge.

I'm not trying to lose a certain number per week. Right now I'm just trying to find the magic number of calories to eat everyday that, combined with my lifestyle, will finally get the scale moving back down in the right direction. I'm basing my numbers of of the calorieline TDEE chart that says if I eat 1820-1920 cals I should slowly "drift" down to my goal weight of 130#s. I am not quite eating that much yet, but I'm trying to give myself a buffer in case I am underestimating things. I measure everything, but even so...

Does your TDEE calculation include you exercise/activity level then? If you don’t include your exercise, then even burning 1,000 extra calories per day is a large deficit.

Have you thought about getting a bodybugg or bodymedia fit? I use the bodymedia fit, and it helps give me a total daily burn and I can calculate a moderate deficit off of that. I am willing to bet your TDEE is a lot higher than you think it is. And I would keep increasing calories and take deficit and exercise breaks (eating at maintenance or above with little to no extra exercise, and putting away the scale during this time). I hear it helps a lot of people to take a break like this every 6-8 weeks.

Davy_RockHit

I guess my plateaus only last 2 or 3 wks at a time so I'll have to wait but I'm so impatient =P

stroutman81

Can you troubleshoot me??
1. Plateued for over a year
2. my log is open, so feel free to take a look, but right now I'm eating 1700-1800 a day. Trying to burn 2500-3000 over the course of a week via running, biking, circuit style lifting but with a little bit heavier weights
3. Highest weight = 210. I lost 70 pounds over the course of 2 1/2 years, then gained back 15 very quickly (Summer of 2010) and now I'm stuck!
4. I do not use a food scale

BMR is typically 10 cals per pound in healthy people.

People who've lost substantial weight tend to have lower BMRs for whatever reason... it's part of that whole adaptive component to weight loss where the body overshoots its reduction in metabolic rate. So let's pretend you're at 9 cals/lb.

It looks like you're 155 lbs now, so your BMR would be roughly 1400.

Add to that exercise and miscellaneous activity. You say you expend roughly 400 calories per day via exercise. That would bring your total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) up to 1800. Say you're very sedentary outside of exercise, so you only burn another 100 on top of this, putting your true TDEE at 1900.

Given that most people under estimate their calorie intake and over estimate their calorie expenditure, I'd wager that you're closer to maintenance than you think.

stroutman81

bump

stroutman81

bump

stroutman81

bump

RuthieCass

bump

Pwrpuff83

Okay, so I know that this is a year old topic, but it speaks directly to my current problem. I was hoping maybe there'd still be someone knocking about who could help me?

I've been stuck for about 3 months - gaining and losing the same two pounds. And that last pound lost took me a month and a half to achieve. I am on 1668 calories (I don't log on this site) and exercise 6 times a week using a dvd (Jillian Michael's Body Revolution, if it matters) which my site calculates at a 180 burn for 30 minutes.

I've been trawling the interwebs for advice and hints and tips and tricks and only really coming up with conflicting advice. I don't know if I'm in need of a break from calorie counting and should go for maintenance cals for a while or if I'm just more lazy than I think and should push harder working out. Stress!

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!

stroutman81

Okay, so I know that this is a year old topic, but it speaks directly to my current problem. I was hoping maybe there'd still be someone knocking about who could help me?

I've been stuck for about 3 months - gaining and losing the same two pounds. And that last pound lost took me a month and a half to achieve. I am on 1668 calories (I don't log on this site) and exercise 6 times a week using a dvd (Jillian Michael's Body Revolution, if it matters) which my site calculates at a 180 burn for 30 minutes.

I've been trawling the interwebs for advice and hints and tips and tricks and only really coming up with conflicting advice. I don't know if I'm in need of a break from calorie counting and should go for maintenance cals for a while or if I'm just more lazy than I think and should push harder working out. Stress!

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!

Height? Weight? Age? Highest Weight? Activity level outside of structure exercise?

CallMeCupcakeDammit

I have a friend who needs to read this.