BMI is a joke

lglg11

I dont have much advice on BMI .. I'm learning alot by reading this thread so thanks for starting it ..


I did want to say Congrats on the loss so far ! Thats incredible . No matter what any numbers say (scale , BMI , etc)
keep moving forward and stay motivated . You must feel awesome!

MinnesotaManimal

To fit in the BMI scale my body fat percentage would have to be ZERO. I weigh 205 not counting the fat. No way I could physically reach 174.

As it is unfortunately I am in the 420's now at 51% body fat. But since I used to be 530 I will take it.. for now!

You are making the assumption that you will have no muscle loss while dieting, which is an incorrect assumption

AC is most likely correct, you would have developed a pile of muscle to be able to move around all the extra weight. And as far as I know, there is no way to lose body weight without losing SOME muscle, but if you eat plently of protien, lift heavy weights and lose your weight slowly, you have the potential to be a hell of a strong guy at a reasonable body weight when your done.

downsizinghoss

That also depends a lot on how much I lift though. I have always been a big guy. They did the water displacement test on me 20 years ago and my lean mass was 230. I have actually lost a lot of muscle mass when I stopped working out (and just getting older). My long range goal is to add back 10-15 pounds of muscle mass.

ahinescapron

A professor that I had who is an exercise physiologist basically told me that BMI is useless, especially for anyone who is muscular or athletic. The program I was in was full of athletes (I was very athletic at the time) and basically everyone in the class fell above their ideal range according to BMI, even though we all had very low body fat. It is basically just quick and dirty math, because measuring body fat is more difficult. I don't trust it or go by it, because I know for a fact that it is not accurate for me.

castadiva

BMI is used by medics and insurance companies, among others, because it is cheaper to do some simple maths than to invest in proper technology to accurately assess individuals. The charts currently in common use were devised at a time when large parts of the population were malnourished (in the aftermath of WW2), and have been adjusted downwards several times since to account for the inclusion of typically-smaller non-European races as the World Health Organisation has expanded its' reach and data. This arbitrary scale was never intended to diagnose individuals, but rather to measure average populations.

Even as a guideline, this scale is not appropriate, especially for those whose genetic background consists of nationalities where greater-than-average height and a large build is typical (most of Scandinavia, Germany, large parts of Eastern Europe and Scotland are examples that come to mind). To highlight the absurdity, an article I read yesterday in The Guardian (UK National Newspaper) had this to say: "on current BMI definitions George Clooney and Russell Crowe are clinically "obese" while Brad Pitt and Mel Gibson are "overweight".
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-dont-believe-obesity-figures-ndash-theyre-spun-for-a-purpose-912216.html

Russellb97

To fit in the BMI scale my body fat percentage would have to be ZERO. I weigh 205 not counting the fat. No way I could physically reach 174.

As it is unfortunately I am in the 420's now at 51% body fat. But since I used to be 530 I will take it.. for now!

You are making the assumption that you will have no muscle loss while dieting, which is an incorrect assumption

Yes, and that LBM isn't 100% muscle.
Water and glycogen, among many otthers are counted as LBM.
For example I'm a "spiker"so the day before I spike my glycogen is drained and my weight could be 200lbs, say I have 20lbs of fat. so I'd be at 10% bodyfat. Now when I spike, I gain 5lbs of water weight by restoring glycogen. So no my weight is 205lbs, but fat mass is still 20lbs. but now my BF% is 9.8%. I didn't gain 5lbs of muscle, but i did gain 5lbs of lean body mass.

EricMurano

BMI is used by medics and insurance companies, among others, because it is cheaper to do some simple maths than to invest in proper technology to accurately assess individuals. The charts currently in common use were devised at a time when large parts of the population were malnourished (in the aftermath of WW2), and have been adjusted downwards several times since to account for the inclusion of typically-smaller non-European races as the World Health Organisation has expanded its' reach and data. This arbitrary scale was never intended to diagnose individuals, but rather to measure average populations.

Even as a guideline, this scale is not appropriate, especially for those whose genetic background consists of nationalities where greater-than-average height and a large build is typical (most of Scandinavia, Germany, large parts of Eastern Europe and Scotland are examples that come to mind). To highlight the absurdity, an article I read yesterday in The Guardian (UK National Newspaper) had this to say: "on current BMI definitions George Clooney and Russell Crowe are clinically "obese" while Brad Pitt and Mel Gibson are "overweight".
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-dont-believe-obesity-figures-ndash-theyre-spun-for-a-purpose-912216.html

The sad thing is that insurance companies would know that BMI is not a good metric for assessing a single person's health. The thing is they are all about statistics. They don't care if you yourself have higher lean body mass; they just need a quick, cheap and easy metric to plug into their algorithm for deciding how much of a risk you are. For most of the people they sell insurance to the BMI will be an acceptable metric to use. The insurance companies are not going to care if they over charge athletes, body builders and just generally healthy people because they just don't make up the majority of the population.

downsizinghoss

To fit in the BMI scale my body fat percentage would have to be ZERO. I weigh 205 not counting the fat. No way I could physically reach 174.

As it is unfortunately I am in the 420's now at 51% body fat. But since I used to be 530 I will take it.. for now!

You are making the assumption that you will have no muscle loss while dieting, which is an incorrect assumption

Yes, and that LBM isn't 100% muscle.
Water and glycogen, among many otthers are counted as LBM.
For example I'm a "spiker"so the day before I spike my glycogen is drained and my weight could be 200lbs, say I have 20lbs of fat. so I'd be at 10% bodyfat. Now when I spike, I gain 5lbs of water weight by restoring glycogen. So no my weight is 205lbs, but fat mass is still 20lbs. but now my BF% is 9.8%. I didn't gain 5lbs of muscle, but i did gain 5lbs of lean body mass.

These are good points. I have never put much stock in the BMI number I just had to post last night because I found it humorous how the scale compared to my personal reality. My lean body mass was 205 and BMI said 209 would be obese.

One reason I did the bod pod was the sheer number of times I have been asked by people/trainers/doctors/nosy people "What is your BMI?" I recommend having the survey done for anyone that is trying to become more fit.

bcattoes

You will lose muscle mass along with the fat.

downsizinghoss

and for those that have congratulated me on the loss so far.. THANK YOU! I came to MFP to break past a plateau and the tools and the people have been a great help!

I have been public with the process for over a year now and the support has been pretty rocking. check out www.facebook.com/downsizinghoss if you are so inclined.

DC0hen

I agree.

There is alot of great points here.

Body Type is an excellent point. I am a between a mesomorph and Endomorph and would look too skinny if I was around my BMI ideal weight.

Keep up the good work !

RiverTom

Many critics of the BMI have complained that the formula used is too simple and ignores a large number of variables that can influence both your BMI score and your overall health. For example, the BMI does not distinguish between lean and fatty mass. As a result, many heavily-muscled individuals, particularly athletes, may be characterized as obese because of their weight. There is also no consideration for how body fat is distributed, which greatly influences health risks. Because the BMI is so accessible and easy to calculate, it can be misinterpreted by individuals who may incorrectly classify themselves as overweight or obese based on their score.


Our continuing reliance on BMI is especially grating given there's a very reasonable alternative. It turns out that the circumference around a person's waist provides a muchmore accurate reading of his or her abdominal fat and risk for disease than BMI. And wrapping a tape measure around your gut is no more expensive than hopping on a scale and standing in front of a ruler. That's why the American Society for Nutrition, the American Diabetes Association, and other prominent medical groups have lately promoted waist circumference measurements as a supplement to, or replacement for, the body mass index.

Yet few doctors have made the switch. The waist measurements require slightly more time and training than it takes to record a BMI reading, and they don't come with any official cutoffs that can be used to make easy assessments. The sensitivity of doctors to these slight inconveniences signals just how difficult it will be to unseat Quetelet's equation. The body mass index is cheap and easy, and it has the incumbent advantage. In short, BMI is here to stay—despite, but also because of, its flaws.

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I'd have to lose a further 14 pounds in order to get just to the top of the "normal" BMI range for my height. My lean body mass is around 184. I will certainly not go to either below 3 % body fat or lose muscle mass just to fit into BMI. No thank you. ;-)

caliredwoods

I too get very discouraged with the BMI standards. I am 41 now, and I lost about 45 lbs about 5 years ago, and have gained about 15-20 back over the past few years. I have been fighting it back on and off for a few years, but exercise 45 a day 5 days, have very large/strong muscles, even when not doing strength training, and pear-shaped. Recently went to the doctor for a sinus infection, was weighed in and while waiting to be seen, glanced at the BMI chart in the room. According to the chart, at 5'6", and 178 pounds (and their scales ALWAYS weigh me in 5 lbs higher than any other scale. What's up with that?), I am considered obese. I am a size 8-10, wear medium shirts, size 36A, have a waist, etc. etc. No one believes me when I tell them I weigh what I do- always look like I would weigh 20 lbs less than I do. When I was down to 160ish and had a measured BMI of about 26 I was still on the edge of overweight. Boobs almost gone, could see my ribs when I sucked in my abs, cardio health thru the roof, strong as an ox, and worked my tail off (well, that actually never goes away, no matter how much I lose lol), and I was still "overweight." Supposedly my ideal weight is about 150. Well, I would have to never eat to get to that, buy some super wonderbras to make it look like I have breasts, and surgically remove some of this muscle mass in my legs if I want to get to that! AND, my doctor says that my blood pressure is really low (100's 0ver 60's and 70's), good cholesterol is awesome, some of the lowest cholesterol numbers period that she has seen, yada, yada, yada. So, do I starve myself to obtain the mid 20's in the BMI range and only be a butt with a skinny body attached? Or do I disregard those numbers? hmmmm

loseweightjames

So if you plug my height//weight/age in to the BMI calculator it says that my normal weight range should be from about 128-174 pounds.

Well, I went to use a Bod Pod today and found out that my fat free mass (bone/muscle/organs/etc) is 205 pounds.

Pretty safe to say that I am not going to reach 0 body fat and lose 30 pounds of muscle.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, at 6'2 and 240 lbs, had a overweight BMI of 30 when he did terminator 2 and conan back in the 80s

BMI is a joke

EDIT: oops sorry, his competition weight was 240 lbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schwarzenegger#Bodybuilding_career

BMI is a very general guideline, especially for men since we build muscle easier than most women

HOWEVER... if someone is over 30 BMI then they better look like Arnold before saying "I'm mostly muscle, honest!" I've heard waaaay too many people say "well I'm muscle, that's why I'm a 30 BMI." Really? Who are you trying to convince because you're not convincing me.

Example for the ladies: Jillian Michaels has some pretty decent muscles. She's 5'2" and 117 (some say 120 lbs). That's a 22 BMI (at 120). Unless you have more muscles than Jillian (or heavy implants) you can't explain away a 30+ BMI.

jamiesadler

BMI is the biggest waste I have ever seen. My husband is 5'9" and weights 195 and his dr told him he was obese. Seriously? He used to be a body builder and has a ton of muscle mass. BMI calculators are a waste of time.

SMarie10

If you can use BMI as a starting point, and look at fat%, it is at least a measurable quantifier for improvement.

amerrill1

bump

Felissaluque

I agree... I'm 5'2" so according to the ideal BMI I should weigh 107-130 lbs.. I'm pretty muscular and at my lightest weight which was 145, I was a size 5/6 and size medium and relatively toned. So I think a combination of Body Fat and measurements should determine your ideal weight.

llahairdna

I wear a size 10, but according to my BMI I'm obese. The problem with BMI is that it doesn't take into account the fact that muscle weighs more than fat. So the higher your muscle mass, the higher your BMI will be, regardless of your body fat percentage.

nas24

Yeah im not big on BMI either, and those body pods are great. When i was 140-145 at 5'3 the only real fat i had on me was a little in my thighs and boobs, im just more of a muscular person. For that reason, i stick to trying to reach a weight that i feel i look my best at and that im my healthiest.

kwehkweh

I'm not a huge fan of the BMI scale either. I hold most of my weight in my lower midsection so my jean size should be the largest thing about me. I'm pretty much in a size 12 right now and it still says I'm obese. I weigh 215 and it wants me to get down to at least 155? I don't think I have another 60 to lose.

mel1820

BMI = make you feel like a fatass.

Everyone is correct...it doesn't reflect a more fit / muscular build. While I do have a few lbs to lose....I am very fit...and run 3 miles a day........wear a size 8. I'm 42...5'2 and 150.

According to the BMI..........27.9.............obese.

icemaiden17_uk

I really te the BMI scale! It is useful if you have a lot to lose to give you a guide but aside from that it is rubbish! My main goals are measurememtns and fitness so when I get closer to goal I will scrap it and just go by those things! I heard once that Brad Pit has a BMI of something stupid like 36 becasue of all his muscle tone! That about did it for me!

icemaiden17_uk

BMI = make you feel like a fatass.

Everyone is correct...it doesn't reflect a more fit / muscular build. While I do have a few lbs to lose....I am very fit...and run 3 miles a day........wear a size 8. I'm 42...5'2 and 150.

According to the BMI..........27.9.............obese.

Holy crap! You wear a size 8 and the BMI scale says you are overweight! That is insane!! I hope your Doctor is one of the good ones who doesn't just go on your weight but on your appearance and fitness level!

deadstarsunburn

BMI charts are a VERY basic guideline. Never exact.

BarbWhite09

BMI has always been a joke...I wear a size 4-6 & am only 1 lb out of the "Overweight" range.

Faye_Anderson

I'm confused now, for the treatment I need the doctors and specialist has told me I need to get my BMI to below 30, if BMI is not relevant/important/factual why have they said I need to do this?

hbunting86

Great loss so far - keep it up you're doing fab!

BMI confuses me... I think it doesn't take into account frame, or bone density in addition to muscle mass and % body fat.

I'm 5' 4'' and weigh 130lb - putting me at 22.3 BMI and in the 'healthy' range - however I have no clue what my % body fat is, which I'd like to find out to give me more of an indication of where I'm at.

Does anyone on here know how to calculate % body fat? It confuses me!

ShinySpork

BMI = make you feel like a fatass.

Not always...sometimes it's just wrong enough to say a person's underweight. It doesn't work on either end of the spectrum. :grumble:

Smiler106

Don't tell my Dr. that. I was 175 (5'6') she said I was OBESE and had to lose 30 pounds. That was 4 years and I could give anything to be 175lbs again. :embarassed: I'm now 280.

That doctor was wrong anyway, a 5'6" woman 175 lbs would be considered overwieght according to BMI.