The truth and facts about protein

becoming_a_new_me

Do a quick search on protein on the forums, and you will find this to be one of the most highly asked questions. There are a lot of incorrect assumptions given as answers to these questions, so I have written an easy to understand explanation regarding this subject. Check out my blog:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/iddreams/view/the-truth-and-facts-about-protein-197731

becoming_a_new_me

bump since I posted this late yesterday evening

infamousmk

Do you cite your sources for data?

onefitdiva

Do a quick search on protein on the forums, and you will find this to be one of the most highly asked questions. There are a lot of incorrect assumptions given as answers to these questions, so I have written an easy to understand explanation regarding this subject. Check out my blog:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/iddreams/view/the-truth-and-facts-about-protein-197731

"Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy"....... it's a good disclaimer people and on the bottom of every thread page for a reason.

carrie_eggo

Do you cite your sources for data?

Yes, please cite your sources....

neanderthin

Mostly misinformation in every paragraph based on conventional wisdom. just my opinion.

Rae6503

"So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to a high of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilders with middle ground values being found in between those two extremes."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html

Acg67

This was partially talked about in the this thread already

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/456887-macros-question-probably-a-repeat-sorry

carrie_eggo

"So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to a high of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilders with middle ground values being found in between those two extremes."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html

:laugh: I have that open in one of my (many) tabs....was going to quote it. BAM!

MrDude_1

yeah, if this was on another forum id go to, it would be called "broscience".. lol.

also.. it would be called wrong.

secrets_out

AdAstra47

Sorry, but your last paragraph is completely wrong.

IF a person already has kidney problems, eating a high-protein diet can overstress them. Just like strenuous cardio can overstress someone with a weak heart. But it's not dangerous at all for a normal person.

Likewise, a diabetic who takes insulin needs to be careful about too much protein or too few carbs interfering with their metabolic balance, since their bodies aren't able to regulate their insulin automatically to compensate. But again, a normal person does NOT have to worry about ketones. Ketosis is not dangerous unless combined with too much insulin.

Yes, when you first start, the process of switching from burning carbs to burning fat/protein can cause dehydration. So you drink more water during the first two weeks of the diet. Duh. Problem solved.

My doctor has had me on a ketogenic diet for the past 10 months, and I've never felt healthier in my life. He tests my BMI every month, and I have NOT lost any muscle, though I have lost over 60 lb of fat & water weight. I started out weighing around 300 lb and eating 300g protein per day. As I lost weight, I lowered my protein accordingly. Best thing I've ever done for myself, only diet that's ever worked for me. It's not for everyone, but don't go telling people that it's dangerous. It's not dangerous, especially if you're under a doctor's supervision.

MrDude_1

Sorry, but your last paragraph is completely wrong.

IF a person already has kidney problems, eating a high-protein diet can overstress them. Just like strenuous cardio can overstress someone with a weak heart. But it's not dangerous at all for a normal person.

Likewise, a diabetic who takes insulin needs to be careful about too much protein or too few carbs interfering with their metabolic balance, since their bodies aren't able to regulate their insulin automatically to compensate. But again, a normal person does NOT have to worry about ketones. Ketosis is not dangerous unless combined with too much insulin.

Yes, when you first start, the process of switching from burning carbs to burning fat/protein can cause dehydration. So you drink more water during the first two weeks of the diet. Duh. Problem solved.

My doctor has had me on a ketogenic diet for the past 10 months, and I've never felt healthier in my life. He tests my BMI every month, and I have NOT lost any muscle, though I have lost over 60 lb of fat & water weight. I started out weighing around 300 lb and eating 300g protein per day. As I lost weight, I lowered my protein accordingly. Best thing I've ever done for myself, only diet that's ever worked for me. It's not for everyone, but don't go telling people that it's dangerous. It's not dangerous, especially if you're under a doctor's supervision.

exactly. the heart-cardio metaphor is a great one. im probably stealing that. lol.

not to mention, im also on a high protein diet, and its NOT ketogenic... it will NEVER become ketogenic as long as I continue to consume carbs...
you have to cut carbs to almost nothing to begin ketosis.

becoming_a_new_me

I obtained my data from several sources including 9 years studying nutrition, UCLA, WebMD, and UMMC. The data is backed by medical studies and science, not bodybuilding magazines and fitness coaches. The data is solid...I will attempt to backtrack the actual links, and of course given certain people's penchant to think that anything other than current trends is false, I be certain to cite my sources in my blogs in the future.

becoming_a_new_me

Also, in reference to the last paragraph it states that it CAN be dangerous, not that it IS dangerous. If a person is under a doctor's care, then of course by all means follow the plan. For the majority of lay-people on this site, listening to the "bulk-up your protien brigade" (without a doctor's care) can be problematic. I was merely stating the facts of safe protein intake.

becoming_a_new_me

sources:

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/protein
http://www.healthcalculators.org/calculators/protein.asp
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50900
http://natural-health-and-fitness.com/dangers-of-too-much-protein/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/490229-protein-excess-in-diet/

Also, even bodybuilding.com has an article on the risks
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maia25.htm

IronSmasher

Do those sources have more authority than magazines that say the opposite?

becoming_a_new_me

Do those sources have more authority than magazines that say the opposite?

There will always be someone who doesn't agree. Those sources used facts from scientific studies and medical journals. I went through dozens of articles, sites, etc. What my blog promotes is eating safe levels of protein in a sustainable way. High-protein diets (over 30% of caloric intake) are fine in cycles as long as the diet is balanced. The problem is that high-protein diets for the typical weight-loss person is not sustainable. Under a doctor's care is one thing because the doctor can test for related issues. Reading a large number of profiles and viewing a majority of posts, many of the people here are just looking to lose weight safely.

I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound.

Acg67

Do those sources have more authority than magazines that say the opposite?

There will always be someone who doesn't agree. Those sources used facts from scientific studies and medical journals. I went through dozens of articles, sites, etc. What my blog promotes is eating safe levels of protein in a sustainable way. High-protein diets (over 30% of caloric intake) are fine in cycles as long as the diet is balanced. The problem is that high-protein diets for the typical weight-loss person is not sustainable. Under a doctor's care is one thing because the doctor can test for related issues. Reading a large number of profiles and viewing a majority of posts, many of the people here are just looking to lose weight safely.

I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound.

Your "sources" do not specifically reference any peer reviewed literature

Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79.
www.uni.edu/dolgener/Advanced_Sport.../protein_intake.pdf

Since there is evidence that protein intakes above the RDA may be beneficial to athletes, a risk–benefit analysis may be useful. An important consideration is the potential harm that may arise from elevated protein intakes. There is little research into the maximum tolerable protein intake in healthy individuals. It has been suggested that excessive protein intakes may increase calcium loss, thus affecting bone health. However, since a major portion of bone is protein, excessive protein does not appear to influence bone health. High protein intakes have been suggested to pose a risk for the kidneys but, in healthy individuals with no underlying kidney disease (presumably most elite athletes), there is no evidence for harm to kidneys with higher intakes. Certainly, it would be detrimental for an athlete to consume excess protein at the expense of other nutrients required to support the necessary level of training and competition. There is a suggestion that intakes greater than 40% of total energy intake might be the upper limit. Protein intakes greater than 40% may limit intake of fat and/or carbohydrates, thus compromising the benefits of these nutrients. However, given the high energy intakes of most elite athletes, protein intakes higher than 40% are unlikely in most. Even a small female restricting energy intake and consuming only 1500 kcal would need to consume 150 g of protein to reach 40%.

High-Protein Weight Loss Diets and Purported Adverse Effects: Where is the Evidence? Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2004, 1:45-51 doi:10.1186/1550-2783-1-1-45
http://www.jissn.com/content/1/1/45#B4

Indeed, the recent study Dawson-Hughes et al. did not confirm the perception that increased dietary protein results in urinary calcium loss.[36] According to Dawson-Hughes et al., "Theconstellation of findings that meat supplements containing 55 g/d protein, when exchanged for carbohydrate did not significantlyincrease urinary calcium excretion and were associated withhigher levels of serum IGF-I and lower levels of the bone resorption marker, N-telopeptide, together with a lack of significant correlationof urinary N-telopeptide with urinary calcium excretion in thehigh protein group (in contrast to the low protein) point tothe possibility that higher meat intake may potentially improvebone mass in many older men and women."

Finally, the cross-cultural and population studies that showed a positive association between animal-protein intake and hip fracture risk did not consider other lifestyle or dietary factors that may protect or increase the risk of fracture.[35] It is of some interest that the author of the most cited paper favoring the earlier hypothesis that high-protein intake promotes osteoporosis no longer believes that protein is harmful to bone.[34] In fact, he concluded that the balance of the evidence seems to indicate the opposite.

Despite its role in nitrogen excretion, there are presently no data in the scientific literature demonstrating the healthy kidney will be damaged by the increased demands of protein consumed in quantities above the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA). Furthermore, real world examples support this contention since kidney problems are nonexistent in the bodybuilding community in which high-protein intake has been the norm for over half a century.[3] Recently, Walser published comprehensive review on protein intake and renal function, which states: "it is clear that protein restriction does not prevent decline in renal function with age, and, in fact, is the major cause of that decline. A better way to prevent the decline would be to increase protein intake. there is no reason to restrict protein intake in healthy individuals in order to protect the kidney."[4]

Dietary protein intake and renal function. Nutrition & Metabolism 2005, 2:25 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-2-25
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

Conclusion

Although excessive protein intake remains a health concern in individuals with pre-existing renal disease, the literature lacks significant research demonstrating a link between protein intake and the initiation or progression of renal disease in healthy individuals. More importantly, evidence suggests that protein-induced changes in renal function are likely a normal adaptative mechanism well within the functional limits of a healthy kidney. Without question, long-term studies are needed to clarify the scant evidence currently available regarding this relationship. At present, there is not sufficient proof to warrant public health directives aimed at restricting dietary protein intake in healthy adults for the purpose of preserving renal function.[

Sidesteal

Mostly misinformation in every paragraph based on conventional wisdom. just my opinion.

^ As usual, I agree with neanderthin.

Helloitsdan

becoming_a_new_me

I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."

neanderthin

I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."

Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

becoming_a_new_me

I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."

Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.

neanderthin

I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."

Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.

Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass. I'm sure we would all loike to see these long term high protein diet dangers, actual studies I mean, seriously i don't mean to be rude.

becoming_a_new_me

I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."

Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.

Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass. I'm sure we would all loike to see these long term high protein diet dangers, actual studies I mean, seriously i don't mean to be rude.

I have been reading Dr. Lemon's information, and every single paper that I have read speaks of "strength athletes" and "endurance athletes' and does not seem to have any studies published on the normal person who is trying to simply lose weight and become more active. The highest end of recommendations is "0.55-0.64 grams of protein per pound of body mass per day" for endurance athletes. This equates to 115g protein for a 180lb person. He does not recommend going over 2g protein per kg of weight, which for a 180lb person would be 164g protein because there is no data showing that it is safe. Assuming that this person is under a 2400 calorie per day diet, then the high end of 30% would be 180g of protein. Therefore your Dr. Lemon is actually making the same recommendations that I did in my blog.

source: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition-diet-articles/5337-athletic-requirements-dietary-protein.html

carrie_eggo

Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

^^Agree.

Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

becoming_a_new_me

Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

^^Agree.

Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

This article refers to strength training and endurance athletes, and even still Dr. Lemon does not recommend going over 2g protein per 1kg of body mass. Read my previous response to this.

Acg67

The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.

Please present peer reviewed literature showing that a diet getting more then 30% of daily kcal from protein is dangerous and causes the problems you listed, if your statements are indeed "facts" you should have no trouble pulling it up. Although I already presented peer reviewed literature that goes against everything you've said

koosdel

Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

^^Agree.

Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

This article refers to strength training and endurance athletes, and even still Dr. Lemon does not recommend going over 2g protein per 1kg of body mass. Read my previous response to this.

Maybe this should also be edited from your blog- " Those who eat a high-protein diet are trying to build muscle mass, however no scientific study has proven this to be accurate."

Another idea would be to change "truth and facts" to "my opinion". There would be much less conflict.

carrie_eggo

Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

^^Agree.

Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

This article refers to strength training and endurance athletes, and even still Dr. Lemon does not recommend going over 2g protein per 1kg of body mass. Read my previous response to this.

Did you read the article?

Percentages mean nothing unless you also know how many calories that person is eating.