The true cause of obesity

Rhea30

Natural or unnatural, if there is plenty food around and they have a sedentary lifestyle, they'll get fat. You can see it with people who sometimes own a wild animal and also just with our pets in general. They are not immune to being overweight, its just their lifestyle on having to work for their food keeps them from going overweight. There isn't an ample food source for most wild animals to obtain with little effort, its a continuous struggle on finding/hunting for their food.

I used to agree with this completely... A few things lately (last 5 years or so) have made me question this belief.

1.) I have read articles describing animal (mostly mice) feeding trials where they were fed ad-libitum and did not have to struggle and hunt for food, where the mice did not get fat.

2.) The deer population is exploding in my area and they are having very little trouble finding food. They also are having to spend less and less time running from predators, yet they are not getting fat.

3.) I have observed a number of humans who have lived a sedentary lifestyle with ample food available and have not gotten fat.

4.) I personally have lost 35 lbs (7 since joining MFP). During this time I have actually DEcreased my energy expenditure and INcreased my energy intake.

5.) I have read some compelling analysis that argues that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to human energy balance. Change in fat mass = Energy in - Energy Out assumes that energy in and energy out are the only variables. There are many other variables that can affect both E(in) and E(out) as well as them being able to affect each other...Its not just a simple math problem. Anyone who has ever struggled with sustained weight loss knows this.

These ( and other factors) have caused me to question the typical nutrition advice. I am not claiming to have any answers.

Mice on their own are able to get fat.

Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.

I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.

fteale

Natural or unnatural, if there is plenty food around and they have a sedentary lifestyle, they'll get fat. You can see it with people who sometimes own a wild animal and also just with our pets in general. They are not immune to being overweight, its just their lifestyle on having to work for their food keeps them from going overweight. There isn't an ample food source for most wild animals to obtain with little effort, its a continuous struggle on finding/hunting for their food.

I used to agree with this completely... A few things lately (last 5 years or so) have made me question this belief.

1.) I have read articles describing animal (mostly mice) feeding trials where they were fed ad-libitum and did not have to struggle and hunt for food, where the mice did not get fat.

2.) The deer population is exploding in my area and they are having very little trouble finding food. They also are having to spend less and less time running from predators, yet they are not getting fat.

3.) I have observed a number of humans who have lived a sedentary lifestyle with ample food available and have not gotten fat.

4.) I personally have lost 35 lbs (7 since joining MFP). During this time I have actually DEcreased my energy expenditure and INcreased my energy intake.

5.) I have read some compelling analysis that argues that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to human energy balance. Change in fat mass = Energy in - Energy Out assumes that energy in and energy out are the only variables. There are many other variables that can affect both E(in) and E(out) as well as them being able to affect each other...Its not just a simple math problem. Anyone who has ever struggled with sustained weight loss knows this.

These ( and other factors) have caused me to question the typical nutrition advice. I am not claiming to have any answers.

Mice on their own are able to get fat.

Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.

I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.

Deer live outside. Unlike humans they don't shelter for warmth, even when the temperatures are below freezing. Instead, their metabolisms go through the roof and they heat themselves by burning a phenomenal amount of calories. Farmed deer are fatter than wild ones as they don't run as much, but no outdoor animal will get fat because they expend so much energy just keeping warm. We humans don't have that biology (not being designed to live in cold climates - we are essentially a tropical species).

nikolaim5

Well if you ask my Anatomy teacher he would tell you the over consumption of High Frutos Corn Syrup. High Frutos corn syrup is a man made sweetener that your body doesn't recognize as a sugar so it can't break it down then stores it as fat. So if you want to lose the pounds cut down on the HFCS .:flowerforyou:

Cut down on sugar, period.

fiberartist219

Some of these are interesting theories, and I'm almost certain the hormonal one has been a huge part of my problem (hypothyroid).

It is nice to see a discussion that goes beyond the calories in versus calories out. I believe that our metabolisms, our brains, our desires, environments, etc are all factors in the equation. Obviously calories in and calories out are a huge part of that equation, but to pretend that we will all lose weight exactly one pound if we exert or deprive ourselves of 3500 calories is just plain wrong. I am not entirely sure that the way calories are measured are the same way that we burn them.

I don't think any of this is an exact science. We each have to get to know ourselves and what our deeper issues are so that we can spend more calories and eat less of them.

adross3

Obesity can also be a starvation problem also. The food that you eat may be highly NON nutritious. Therefore your body is telling you to eat more to get what it needs.

PaulS70

Natural or unnatural, if there is plenty food around and they have a sedentary lifestyle, they'll get fat. You can see it with people who sometimes own a wild animal and also just with our pets in general. They are not immune to being overweight, its just their lifestyle on having to work for their food keeps them from going overweight. There isn't an ample food source for most wild animals to obtain with little effort, its a continuous struggle on finding/hunting for their food.

I used to agree with this completely... A few things lately (last 5 years or so) have made me question this belief.

1.) I have read articles describing animal (mostly mice) feeding trials where they were fed ad-libitum and did not have to struggle and hunt for food, where the mice did not get fat.

2.) The deer population is exploding in my area and they are having very little trouble finding food. They also are having to spend less and less time running from predators, yet they are not getting fat.

3.) I have observed a number of humans who have lived a sedentary lifestyle with ample food available and have not gotten fat.

4.) I personally have lost 35 lbs (7 since joining MFP). During this time I have actually DEcreased my energy expenditure and INcreased my energy intake.

5.) I have read some compelling analysis that argues that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to human energy balance. Change in fat mass = Energy in - Energy Out assumes that energy in and energy out are the only variables. There are many other variables that can affect both E(in) and E(out) as well as them being able to affect each other...Its not just a simple math problem. Anyone who has ever struggled with sustained weight loss knows this.

These ( and other factors) have caused me to question the typical nutrition advice. I am not claiming to have any answers.

Mice on their own are able to get fat.

Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.

I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.

Deer live outside. Unlike humans they don't shelter for warmth, even when the temperatures are below freezing. Instead, their metabolisms go through the roof and they heat themselves by burning a phenomenal amount of calories. Farmed deer are fatter than wild ones as they don't run as much, but no outdoor animal will get fat because they expend so much energy just keeping warm. We humans don't have that biology (not being designed to live in cold climates - we are essentially a tropical species).

Deer have fur not high metabolisms. Farmed deer are fed by us... improperly.

I think everyone is missing my point... I am QUESTIONING not rejecting the commonly held belief that sedentary lifestyles and ample food will automatically make you or any other animal fat. This is because I have observed some things that contradict this paradigm.

I question greatly that animals are lean only because of energy expenditure and food scarcity. I theorize that there is a biological hunger/satiety mechanism that works most effectively when a high quality, natural, species appropriate, traditional diet is consumed and that this mechanism will work even in an environment packed with ample food.

I'm not sure that I am right, I honestly believe that nobody truly knows why we overeat.

PaulS70

Mice on their own are able to get fat.

Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.

I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.

I don't believe and I don't think that I have said that wild animals CAN'T get fat. I have only sat and wondered why they DON'T get fat. The more I think/read about it, the more I question most commonly held beliefs about obesity.

travla01

Obesity can also be a starvation problem also. The food that you eat may be highly NON nutritious. Therefore your body is telling you to eat more to get what it needs.

Very true....

happy_vegan

processed food does not satisfy a belly the way actual food does. most of what americans and the western world eat is processed - BREAD IS A PROCESSED FOOD - even if you made it yourself, that flour has been processed. sugar is processed. most western base ingredients are processed. this goes beyond the artificial additives, hfcs blah blah.

sodium makes you thirsty and a lot of times hunger is actually misperceived thirst. we eat a TON OF SODIUM.

people feel like they need to eat more because they are not full from processed food.

people who are not actively busy or conversely, people who are too busy and then stressed out, eat out of a way to satisfy their dissatisfaction. our commercial culture that food is a 'treat' and 'treating ourselves' will help you be happier.

it's all our own individual faults technically but a lot of it is how we run our society.

UsedToBeHusky

processed food does not satisfy a belly the way actual food does. most of what americans and the western world eat is processed - BREAD IS A PROCESSED FOOD - even if you made it yourself, that flour has been processed. sugar is processed. most western base ingredients are processed. this goes beyond the artificial additives, hfcs blah blah.

sodium makes you thirsty and a lot of times hunger is actually misperceived thirst. we eat a TON OF SODIUM.

people feel like they need to eat more because they are not full from processed food.

people who are not actively busy or conversely, people who are too busy and then stressed out, eat out of a way to satisfy their dissatisfaction. our commercial culture that food is a 'treat' and 'treating ourselves' will help you be happier.

it's all our own individual faults technically but a lot of it is how we run our society.

This is pretty much my point. But I think that the processed food doesn't satisfy because it is nutritionally defecient. That may be the same thing that you were saying. IDK.

travla01

processed food does not satisfy a belly the way actual food does. most of what americans and the western world eat is processed - BREAD IS A PROCESSED FOOD - even if you made it yourself, that flour has been processed. sugar is processed. most western base ingredients are processed. this goes beyond the artificial additives, hfcs blah blah.

sodium makes you thirsty and a lot of times hunger is actually misperceived thirst. we eat a TON OF SODIUM.

people feel like they need to eat more because they are not full from processed food.

people who are not actively busy or conversely, people who are too busy and then stressed out, eat out of a way to satisfy their dissatisfaction. our commercial culture that food is a 'treat' and 'treating ourselves' will help you be happier.

it's all our own individual faults technically but a lot of it is how we run our society.

I agree.. and whole grains and bread are marketed as being 'healthy'. And blindly a good percent of our society follows.. and instead of eating it in moderation.. they consume it on a mass scale.

Mmmporkrinds

I agree that a lot of people do not understand how much they need to eat. What puzzles me is how does every other animal do it? With ample food around you don't get fat lions and fat deer and fat cheetahs. How do they know how much they need?

We aren't wild animals. You see a lot of fat dogs and cats.
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I think the level of processing of food has something to do with it too (including pet food)

sandislim

Mice on their own are able to get fat.

Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.

I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.

I don't believe and I don't think that I have said that wild animals CAN'T get fat. I have only sat and wondered why they DON'T get fat. The more I think/read about it, the more I question most commonly held beliefs about obesity.

Wild animals produce more offspring when food is in surplus - Pets feed on processed food and are neutered. Wild animals don't usually get fat unless it is needed or in their nature to do so.

voliim

Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.

I agree that a lot of people do not understand how much they need to eat. What puzzles me is how does every other animal do it? With ample food around you don't get fat lions and fat deer and fat cheetahs. How do they know how much they need?

Animals usually only eat one type of food at a time for long periods, like-wise they also share their food. If you eat ONLY lean meat, like a lion your eating so much protein that we probably couldn't even comprehend it. Animals in the wild do not add extra things to make stuff taste nice, thus you get the linear groups like carnivores. Eating isolated meals etc. can help with digestion, but it manly just means you have a great diet, which is what all animals in the wild have. They also run a lot

sed484

Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.

I agree that a lot of people do not understand how much they need to eat. What puzzles me is how does every other animal do it? With ample food around you don't get fat lions and fat deer and fat cheetahs. How do they know how much they need?

We aren't wild animals. You see a lot of fat dogs and cats.

Dogs and cats are fat because they are domesticated and it is PEOPLE who feed them! You almost never see fat strays!

triciaj66

you are what you eat!!!

triciaj66

Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.

Well said!!!!

fteale

Natural or unnatural, if there is plenty food around and they have a sedentary lifestyle, they'll get fat. You can see it with people who sometimes own a wild animal and also just with our pets in general. They are not immune to being overweight, its just their lifestyle on having to work for their food keeps them from going overweight. There isn't an ample food source for most wild animals to obtain with little effort, its a continuous struggle on finding/hunting for their food.

I used to agree with this completely... A few things lately (last 5 years or so) have made me question this belief.

1.) I have read articles describing animal (mostly mice) feeding trials where they were fed ad-libitum and did not have to struggle and hunt for food, where the mice did not get fat.

2.) The deer population is exploding in my area and they are having very little trouble finding food. They also are having to spend less and less time running from predators, yet they are not getting fat.

3.) I have observed a number of humans who have lived a sedentary lifestyle with ample food available and have not gotten fat.

4.) I personally have lost 35 lbs (7 since joining MFP). During this time I have actually DEcreased my energy expenditure and INcreased my energy intake.

5.) I have read some compelling analysis that argues that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to human energy balance. Change in fat mass = Energy in - Energy Out assumes that energy in and energy out are the only variables. There are many other variables that can affect both E(in) and E(out) as well as them being able to affect each other...Its not just a simple math problem. Anyone who has ever struggled with sustained weight loss knows this.

These ( and other factors) have caused me to question the typical nutrition advice. I am not claiming to have any answers.

Mice on their own are able to get fat.

Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.

I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.

Deer live outside. Unlike humans they don't shelter for warmth, even when the temperatures are below freezing. Instead, their metabolisms go through the roof and they heat themselves by burning a phenomenal amount of calories. Farmed deer are fatter than wild ones as they don't run as much, but no outdoor animal will get fat because they expend so much energy just keeping warm. We humans don't have that biology (not being designed to live in cold climates - we are essentially a tropical species).

Deer have fur not high metabolisms. Farmed deer are fed by us... improperly.

I think everyone is missing my point... I am QUESTIONING not rejecting the commonly held belief that sedentary lifestyles and ample food will automatically make you or any other animal fat. This is because I have observed some things that contradict this paradigm.

I question greatly that animals are lean only because of energy expenditure and food scarcity. I theorize that there is a biological hunger/satiety mechanism that works most effectively when a high quality, natural, species appropriate, traditional diet is consumed and that this mechanism will work even in an environment packed with ample food.

I'm not sure that I am right, I honestly believe that nobody truly knows why we overeat.

Yes, they have fur, but have you seen a deer up close? It's not thick fur. They keep warm by whacking up their metabolism and eating a LOT. I know this. My in laws are deer farmers. And they don't feed them improperly. They feed them grass. Just like they eat in the wild. The difference is, they aren't running around as much.

tataliciousd89

Dogs and Cats DO get fat eating just dog and cat food if they have an owner who continually overfeeds them.

Agreed, but that also comes from the fact that all they have to do to get fed is walk up to you with the bowl in their mouth and give a wimper. Once again, not exactly a whole lot of energy being expended there.

PaulS70

Yes, they have fur, but have you seen a deer up close? It's not thick fur. They keep warm by whacking up their metabolism and eating a LOT. I know this. My in laws are deer farmers. And they don't feed them improperly. They feed them grass. Just like they eat in the wild. The difference is, they aren't running around as much.

This is more my point...

SOURCE: http://deer.fw.msu.edu/regulations/winter.php/

"All these adaptations: winter coat, fat storage, reduced metabolism, thermal cover, and sedentary behavior, help deer survive severe winters. Even with all the food they want, deer use their fat reserves and lose weight over winter. Deer in relatively good condition can fast for several weeks without harmful effects"

Their adapted biology, NOT food availability controls their energy consumption.

However introduce an unnatural diet into the mix and...

"Deer are ruminants, meaning they have a four part stomach with microbes that help digest woody vegetation. Deer acquire sufficient specifically adapted microbes over a period of time that digests specific food material. When deer eat food that has not been part of their diet, the specific microbes are not present to help with digestion. Deer will eat any readily available handout, forgoing the easily digestible natural food, thus possibly filling their stomach with indigestible material. If deer are provided a supplemental diet they cannot digest, the deer may starve even with a full stomach. Over the years, many deer have died with stomachs full of hay, for example, the hay having been provided as emergency food at a time when the animals had been feeding on browse for many weeks. In addition, a food source rich in carbohydrates has been known to cause acidosis (grain overload) and enterotoxemia (overeating disease), which can be fatal. Corn, fed as an emergency supplemental diet, has been known to cause the death of many deer due to these difficulties. Click here for more details.

Other than commercially available pelletized food, there is not a single food source that provides the complete nutrition deer obtain through natural browse.

Providing artificial food may also increase the energy demand on deer. The deer may be forced to leave the wintering complex to gain access to the food or deer may be disturbed within the wintering complex when food is artificially distributed within the complex. Food placed for the convenience of humans causes deer to travel long distances through deep snow and away from thermo cover, thus resulting in a negative energy balance. Taking food into a wintering complex causes deer to move within the complex, forcing deer to unnecessarily utilize energy to avoid the intrusion.

Artificially feeding deer in the wrong location often results in deer spending winter in a poor location where wind chill is more severe and heat loss is more substantial. Deer in these locations become dependent upon artificial food to survive, as natural browse was never available. In addition, the winter thermal cover provided in a good winter complex not available, thus causing deer to expend excess energy on staying warm.

The artificial feeding of deer may also concentrate the animals into even a smaller area than the habitat that they usually winter in, which can cause two additional negatives consequences, the potential for disease transmission and habitat degradation. Bovine Tuberculosis (TB) and Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) have been documented in Michigan. Congregating deer repeatedly at feed sites increases the potential of disease transmission. Also, deer will eat everything within close proximity of the artificial feeding site. By the conclusion of winter, that site will be devoid of all edible vegetation; vegetation other wildlife species depend upon for survival.

Deer do not share food. Placing out an insufficient amount of food to feed all deer will not change what would happen without the food. If insufficient food is available to feed all deer, only the biggest and strongest deer will have access to the food. The young, old, weak, and smaller deer will be denied access. Insufficient food available to feed all deer only ensures the survival of those that would survive anyway. The survival of those deer without access to the food may actually be decreased. These deer expend valuable energy to try gaining access to food that dominant deer consume."

KJVBear33

I say forget ALL of those theories.........they MAY have some validity, but I think that it has to do with today's society. I have heard this over and over again..........obesity in the US is such a problem, but everyone throws up their hands like they don't know how to help this scenario while throwing money to programs that may not need it or should not be funded THAT much and it really gets underneath my skin. The reason for WHY this happens is because there are a multitude of easy fixes as far as meals are concerned because there are a dozen.......billion........fast food places one could go to, they have pop and candy vending machines in schools FILLED with fattening products, and the hot lunches schools provide are a joke I think.........I mean yes, all of these places, save for vending machines that is, have to abide by nutritional standards and all. But still.........its today's society that is the problem. Everywhere you look everyone is looking for that quick fix.........youre out and you are tired and don't want to cook and yet you don't want to go out to eat--you want to eat at home--what do you do? Get a greasy nasty pizza, go get fried food at a drive thru, or get chinese food that is wrought with God knows what.

I seem to think that its not laziness........I think its the fact that we have already a taste of what we like and what we don't like and its an automatic thing. I honestly know from experience that before I started losing weight myself, I would go for things that I knew tasted great to me, but I never gave it much thought of what I was putting in my mouth. Now, I know. Like for instance, I would go to the movies and get popcorn every single time. Is it wrought with grease and God only knows what else? Yes........but does it taste good? very much so..........so smelling that popcorn as you walk in is just going to pull you in unless you get it through your head before you enter the theater........no, I am not going to do this.

This sounds almost exactly like the TOXIC ENVIRONMENT theory.


Okay, I can see where you think that it would fall into this category, but honestly it doesn't. Yes, environment MAY play a role in our lives........yes, the popcorn in the theater example I gave........as well as schools and vending machines.......ect. But that is a VERY small portion of it. Portion nonetheless, but the sole reason that people over eat isn't because junk food is being shoved in our faces all the time when we are out and about. That is just a lame excuse so we can blame someone else for our own mistakes. There are places where you CAN get tons of nutritious and healthy stuff.........its called whole foods.........its called a grocery store.........its just whether you choose to change your thinking. I could be the healthiest person on the planet, but if I am not willing to be responsible for what goes in my mouth, then I'm done for and the weight can and will be packed on. Its not strength in fighting laziness its strength and will power to change a mindset. Your brain is a muscle that, when weakened, will take the easy road ALL the time........but if you practice willpower over the every day ditches, it will get stronger and suddenly those automatic reaches for things that are unhealthy will change to automatically reaching for things that ARE.

To be honest, I have had my fair share of issues.........right now, its learning to reach for the right foods. I do eat healthy and I barely ever eat anything that can be labled "junk food", but you still can keep from losing the weight you want to.........you could even gain still depending on what you are doing........not eating enough calories during the day.......ect.

fitnoflab

Read later.

lisakyle_11

....late night browsing