Do you know where your produce came from?

vim_n_vigor

I have seen a lot of vegan/vegetarian comments when there is a topic about something gross/disgusting/mean is done to animals by the food industry as that being one of the reasons that person is vegan/vegetarian. Do you think that fruits and veggies are really any better? In Florida, migrant worker's children (tomato farms) are being born horribly deformed because the workers are subjected to such horrible chemicals being applied. GM altered food is making some crops, you know, uncommon ones like corn, soybeans, cereal grains, etc. into something that is not a traditional crop. They are adding viruses and chemicals into the plant before it is even grown (and these crops are taking over other fields too, even the organic ones.) Once a field is found to have the Monsanto 'code' in it, those seeds cannot be used for growing ever again, leading to less unaltered crops to plant.

There is a huge price being paid by the farmers, workers and the environment to grow your tomotoes and strawberries and everything else too. Are these things not as important as a cow?

*I personally don't care if someone chooses to eat or not to eat meat, to eat or not eat fruits or veggies or grains.

_GlaDOS_

To answer your question, yes, I know where my produce comes from.

I agree with you very much, but not with your approach to the topic. Common practices by the US food industry are pretty terrible, but there are a lot of ways to stand up against those practices. One of those is giving up eating meat. There are a lot of other ways to do so, but we can’t tell people they have a responsibility to immediately do them all. I like the approach of educating others when they ask what they can do, rather than telling them, “Yeah you’re not eating meat, but that doesn’t really matter if you don’t know where the other food you’re eating comes from.” People aren’t very responsive to that.

vim_n_vigor

To answer your question, yes, I know where my produce comes from.

I agree with you very much, but not with your approach to the topic. Common practices by the US food industry are pretty terrible, but there are a lot of ways to stand up against those practices. One of those is giving up eating meat. There are a lot of other ways to do so, but we can’t tell people they have a responsibility to immediately do them all. I like the approach of educating others when they ask what they can do, rather than telling them, “Yeah you’re not eating meat, but that doesn’t really matter if you don’t know where the other food you’re eating comes from.” People aren’t very responsive to that.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The food industry as a whole - not just in the US is horrifying. Not just the meat. Whenever possible, my family grows produce during summer months, supports our local farmers market in season, and buys meat that is local and butchered in humane conditions. It scares me to see what is happening to the entire food chain. Some people do have a very good idea of what is happening, others don't. There are ethical ways of handling the plants just as there are the animals. There are also ethical ways to treat the people that are involved in the planting, growing, harvesting, raising, slaughtering, of all of these food sources. Right now, none of them are being treated ethically.

Another issue is that it is very difficult, if not impossible to identify the source of your food. What is the country of origin? Is it mixed with other food from many other origins?

ilookthetype

My uncle worked with migrant fruit workers. The conditions weren't great, but he's a citizen so he had some perks.

I think the real issue, is that the militant vegans (throwing red paint of people wearing leather and fur), those that make the scathing videos, and scream themselves blue don't ever acknowledge that there are much more heinous crimes being committed to migrant workers.

I know that I have no idea how to ensure my money doesn't go to those who perpetuate crime, I use a farmers market in the winter (May to November) and I'm trying to get involved with a Co-Op? That is one of the many reasons my goal is to move and get into sustainable farming.

JDMPWR

To answer your question, yes, I know where my produce comes from.

I agree with you very much, but not with your approach to the topic. Common practices by the US food industry are pretty terrible, but there are a lot of ways to stand up against those practices. One of those is giving up eating meat. There are a lot of other ways to do so, but we can’t tell people they have a responsibility to immediately do them all. I like the approach of educating others when they ask what they can do, rather than telling them, “Yeah you’re not eating meat, but that doesn’t really matter if you don’t know where the other food you’re eating comes from.” People aren’t very responsive to that.

Agreed for the most part. I just don't think I could ever gain the protein I need in a day from powders and soy proteins only.

The problem with this industry is that we are overpopulated as a country so the demand for food and produce is higher so they genetically enhance the food to harvest it faster for consumption. Now if we compared our population of now to say 50 years ago you(the OP) would understand why.

Sure you can support your local naturally grown market/farm but sometimes dependent on where you live it isn't so easy as it would be in other areas of the country where it is more abundant.

_GlaDOS_

All good points. Like I said, totally agree with you. In my struggle to decide whether it was more ethical to be a vegan and give up meat and dairy vs. buy dairy and meat from local producers and farms I decided it was more ethical for me to do the latter. The meat industry itself is driven more so by the grain industry (corn and soy in particular). I could not be a a vegan and eat vegan processed foods made with genetically modified corn and soy, because to me that is an act that fuels the torture of animals even more. Is it more ethical to torture animals, give them short lives, and kill them vs. giving them longer, healthier lives before killing them? Or is it simply the act of killing another animal we should really care about? I honestly don't know.

So many questions and interesting discussions to be had, but I find MFP to be a terrible place for them, to be honest.

poustotah

My bananas came from Honduras. I had never purchased bananas from Honduras before so I thought there were supposed to be bright green and was quite excited to try something new. When I tried to cut one open, it was hard and of course, unripened. Apparently the bananas grown in Honduras are green when they aren't yet ripe. Just like the bananas in every other part of the world.

vim_n_vigor

All good points. Like I said, totally agree with you. In my struggle to decide whether it was more ethical to be a vegan and give up meat and dairy vs. buy dairy and meat from local producers and farms I decided it was more ethical for me to do the latter. The meat industry itself is driven more so by the grain industry (corn and soy in particular). I could not be a a vegan and eat vegan processed foods made with genetically modified corn and soy, because to me that is an act that fuels the torture of animals even more. Is it more ethical to torture animals, give them short lives, and kill them vs. giving them longer, healthier lives before killing them? Or is it simply the act of killing another animal we should really care about? I honestly don't know.

So many questions and interesting discussions to be had, but I find MFP to be a terrible place for them, to be honest.

I guess I 'knew' but just realized today, that the industry doesn't have to label their crops as GMO. I find that appalling. I don't want that stuff in my food. The best I can do is to buy things that say they are non-GMO, but who regulates that? Can anyone put that on their label? If they stay below a certain percentage can they claim it? I live in Northern Michigan. We can't get local produce year round, it doesn't exist.

I have lived in farming communities all of my life. There is enough great land to grow the crops that we need. Some of the GMO crops actually have less of an output than non-GMO crops. These crops are also brining into the mix super weeds and super bugs that we aren't able to kill.

_GlaDOS_

Agreed for the most part. I just don't think I could ever gain the protein I need in a day from powders and soy proteins only.

The problem with this industry is that we are overpopulated as a country so the demand for food and produce is higher so they genetically enhance the food to harvest it faster for consumption. Now if we compared our population of now to say 50 years ago you(the OP) would understand why.

Sure you can support your local naturally grown market/farm but sometimes dependent on where you live it isn't so easy as it would be in other areas of the country where it is more abundant.

Well, that is one thing I don't agree with - "we are overpopulated and therefore the amount of food we produce is necessary". We are actually producing way more corn (not sure about soy) than we need. The meat and processed food industries are fueled by this. The task is to figure out what to do with all of the extra corn, which is to produce more meat and "unique" processed foods than we really need. And why are we producing more corn than we need? Because that is what the government subsidizes, and that is what the food producers are buying. And the big ag companies are essentially buying our Congress members, so the cycle will continue.

I agree that in many areas of this country, local food and farmer's markets are hard to find, if at all. And the *kitten* is not cheap. It would be nice to see us figuring out ways to make that stuff more widely available and affordable, as well as educate consumers rather than keep them in the dark.

runnercheryl

I don't really know where my food comes from. I know about all the bad practices, but I don't have the time or money to buy from local farms and for that reason I settle with what's sold in the shops - usually, I go for the cheapest option. I'll go for free-range eggs over caged, but that's about it. My veg is mostly budget brand frozen or the cheapest fresh option, and my meats are usually just the leanest I can find at a relatively low price.

Pandorian

it's seemingly just the "big and visible" animals that matter anyway, because the combines going through and harvesting all that plant matter certainly don't differentiate between the plants they're after and the critters living in the fields, lots of animals killed harvesting our veggies.

But I'll happily eat meat, my pigs did up the 'impossible to work' ground where I"m expanding the garden, at the same time they are rooting it up they are ammending it with fertilizer naturally, the chickens run around the yard doing better pest control than any chemical can do (considering I want to leave the "good" bugs around like the bees I won't use the chemicals) and the cows.. well they're doing wonders for the pasture, they wander around, eat the growth, fertilize the soil and since we've added these 3 groups alone the "life" around our place has picked up immensely. Cow patties are processed by the bugs in the ground within a couple weeks of being dropped, the soil is improving giving the cows more to eat on the same field...

savage22hp

O.P
Where is your information from ?

JDMPWR

Agreed for the most part. I just don't think I could ever gain the protein I need in a day from powders and soy proteins only.

The problem with this industry is that we are overpopulated as a country so the demand for food and produce is higher so they genetically enhance the food to harvest it faster for consumption. Now if we compared our population of now to say 50 years ago you(the OP) would understand why.

Sure you can support your local naturally grown market/farm but sometimes dependent on where you live it isn't so easy as it would be in other areas of the country where it is more abundant.

Well, that is one thing I don't agree with - "we are overpopulated and therefore the amount of food we produce is necessary". We are actually producing way more corn (not sure about soy) than we need. The meat and processed food industries are fueled by this. The task is to figure out what to do with all of the extra corn, which is to produce more meat and "unique" processed foods than we really need. And why are we producing more corn than we need? Because that is what the government subsidizes, and that is what the food producers are buying. And the big ag companies are essentially buying our Congress members, so the cycle will continue.

I agree that in many areas of this country, local food and farmer's markets are hard to find, if at all. And the *kitten* is not cheap. It would be nice to see us figuring out ways to make that stuff more widely available and affordable, as well as educate consumers rather than keep them in the dark.

Lets just release a zombie plague that will wipe out half the population and then we can start over....farmers, builders, artists, thinkers, creators. I like how we used to be and we can live off the land!!! That is why I posted about a week ago I keep thinking of selling all my stuff and buying a farm or working on one and learn to live off the land again.

Sounds crazy but I have tons of respect for people that still live that lifestyle.

brittanyjeanxo

Trader Joe's. lol, but seriously, I honestly don't know. Thanks for posting.

pdworkman

I agree. Conditions in the industry are not good. However, if you eat meat, you are compounding those problems. What do you think the cows are eating? By eating lower on the food chain, you are ultimately consuming less agricultural products, not more. You can eat 200 cal of corn, or you can eat 200 cal of beef and all of the corn that had to be fed to that cow through his lifetime and all of the pain and suffering that went into producing it.

(I'm not satisfied with my semantics here, but hopefully you get my point.)

Pam

I have seen a lot of vegan/vegetarian comments when there is a topic about something gross/disgusting/mean is done to animals by the food industry as that being one of the reasons that person is vegan/vegetarian. Do you think that fruits and veggies are really any better? In Florida, migrant worker's children (tomato farms) are being born horribly deformed because the workers are subjected to such horrible chemicals being applied. GM altered food is making some crops, you know, uncommon ones like corn, soybeans, cereal grains, etc. into something that is not a traditional crop. They are adding viruses and chemicals into the plant before it is even grown (and these crops are taking over other fields too, even the organic ones.) Once a field is found to have the Monsanto 'code' in it, those seeds cannot be used for growing ever again, leading to less unaltered crops to plant.

There is a huge price being paid by the farmers, workers and the environment to grow your tomotoes and strawberries and everything else too. Are these things not as important as a cow?

*I personally don't care if someone chooses to eat or not to eat meat, to eat or not eat fruits or veggies or grains.

_GlaDOS_

All good points. Like I said, totally agree with you. In my struggle to decide whether it was more ethical to be a vegan and give up meat and dairy vs. buy dairy and meat from local producers and farms I decided it was more ethical for me to do the latter. The meat industry itself is driven more so by the grain industry (corn and soy in particular). I could not be a a vegan and eat vegan processed foods made with genetically modified corn and soy, because to me that is an act that fuels the torture of animals even more. Is it more ethical to torture animals, give them short lives, and kill them vs. giving them longer, healthier lives before killing them? Or is it simply the act of killing another animal we should really care about? I honestly don't know.

So many questions and interesting discussions to be had, but I find MFP to be a terrible place for them, to be honest.

I guess I 'knew' but just realized today, that the industry doesn't have to label their crops as GMO. I find that appalling. I don't want that stuff in my food. The best I can do is to buy things that say they are non-GMO, but who regulates that? Can anyone put that on their label? If they stay below a certain percentage can they claim it? I live in Northern Michigan. We can't get local produce year round, it doesn't exist.

I have lived in farming communities all of my life. There is enough great land to grow the crops that we need. Some of the GMO crops actually have less of an output than non-GMO crops. These crops are also brining into the mix super weeds and super bugs that we aren't able to kill.

How timely! WA state is introducing an initiative to require GM foods to be labeled in our state. There is another bill in CA to do the same. I sent my district senator and email asking her to support GMO labeling, and she actually emailed me back today! Crazy! She is sponsoring the bill.

I've been educating myself as much as possible on GMOs for almost 3 years now. I'm by no means an expert or scientist, but I do have resources for you if you are interested. For example, if something is labeled "organic" with the USDA label, it can't contain ingredients sourced from GM crops. However, there is no testing for this, and contamination from GM farms to conventionally grown and organically grown crops is happening a lot, so you can’t know unless the seeds are tested prior to making the products or the final food product is tested. So there is this organization out there called the Non-GMO Project (http://www.nongmoproject.org/), and they actually test and verify that products contain no GMOs. They have a database of products on their website that are certified to be non-GMO or going through the process of certification. Good stuff.

_GlaDOS_

Agreed for the most part. I just don't think I could ever gain the protein I need in a day from powders and soy proteins only.

The problem with this industry is that we are overpopulated as a country so the demand for food and produce is higher so they genetically enhance the food to harvest it faster for consumption. Now if we compared our population of now to say 50 years ago you(the OP) would understand why.

Sure you can support your local naturally grown market/farm but sometimes dependent on where you live it isn't so easy as it would be in other areas of the country where it is more abundant.

Well, that is one thing I don't agree with - "we are overpopulated and therefore the amount of food we produce is necessary". We are actually producing way more corn (not sure about soy) than we need. The meat and processed food industries are fueled by this. The task is to figure out what to do with all of the extra corn, which is to produce more meat and "unique" processed foods than we really need. And why are we producing more corn than we need? Because that is what the government subsidizes, and that is what the food producers are buying. And the big ag companies are essentially buying our Congress members, so the cycle will continue.

I agree that in many areas of this country, local food and farmer's markets are hard to find, if at all. And the *kitten* is not cheap. It would be nice to see us figuring out ways to make that stuff more widely available and affordable, as well as educate consumers rather than keep them in the dark.

Lets just release a zombie plague that will wipe out half the population and then we can start over....farmers, builders, artists, thinkers, creators. I like how we used to be and we can live off the land!!! That is why I posted about a week ago I keep thinking of selling all my stuff and buying a farm or working on one and learn to live off the land again.

Sounds crazy but I have tons of respect for people that still live that lifestyle.

I would totally love to have a farm!

vim_n_vigor

O.P
Where is your information from ?

Tomatoes:
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/mar/03/2-immokalee-farmworkers-sue-over-babies-birth-defe/
you can search for immokalee babies and get several more resources.

GMO crops:

Do a search for Monsanto or GMO crops. I'll let you decide for yourself which sources are accurate and which are not.

vim_n_vigor

How timely! WA state is introducing an initiative to require GM foods to be labeled in our state. There is another bill in CA to do the same. I sent my district senator and email asking her to support GMO labeling, and she actually emailed me back today! Crazy! She is sponsoring the bill.

I've been educating myself as much as possible on GMOs for almost 3 years now. I'm by no means an expert or scientist, but I do have resources for you if you are interested. For example, if something is labeled "organic" with the USDA label, it can't contain ingredients sourced from GM crops. However, there is no testing for this, and contamination from GM farms to conventionally grown and organically grown crops is happening a lot, so you can’t know unless the seeds are tested prior to making the products or the final food product is tested. So there is this organization out there called the Non-GMO Project (http://www.nongmoproject.org/), and they actually test and verify that products contain no GMOs. They have a database of products on their website that are certified to be non-GMO or going through the process of certification. Good stuff.

If you wouldn't mind sending some of your sources, I would gladly read them. It shouldn't be so hard to say, hey, I ate a tomato, it was safe for the people making it, it was safe for me to consume, and life goes on. Shoot, OSHA wants to know if I get a papercut at work or if I am exposed to anything, but on some farms, some slaughterhouses, the workers can be exposed to this stuff non-stop! It isn't right.

1996gtstang

last tomatoes i bought had "product of mexico" stickers

soontobeskinnysara

I sure do! I buy all my produce from Whole Foods, and it's all organic and local, which is how I like to eat.

BlondeLisa1

GM food have increased "shelf life" and allowed for those who would otherwise go hungry and starve to survive starvation. Grains and other wholesome foods can make their way to N Korea, China, Africa, Vietnam etc. because it won't rot like just a generation ago. Is it better to have GM foods and save hundreds of thousands of lives? I'll go with YES.



But everyone has their "thing", if being an anti GM foods advocate is yours, good luck to you.

vim_n_vigor

I would totally love to have a farm!

I would love to have a farm too. Unfortunately I have to live with what I can grow in our yard during our short growing season. At least I have a small greenhouse so I can start the seeds early.

fjrandol

I get my produce from Abundant Harvest Organics, and it's all locally grown. Had the best stir-fried yu choy from my box last night. Yum yum!

Bentley2718

The problem with this industry is that we are overpopulated as a country so the demand for food and produce is higher so they genetically enhance the food to harvest it faster for consumption. Now if we compared our population of now to say 50 years ago you(the OP) would understand why.

Sure you can support your local naturally grown market/farm but sometimes dependent on where you live it isn't so easy as it would be in other areas of the country where it is more abundant.

The U.S. is not overpopulated. The problems are inefficiency in the system (did you know you get more food per acre of land growing multiple crops than with monoculture), waste by consumers, corporate greed (Monsanto anyone), and the heavy reliance on meat and dairy. Why do I bring up the last one? Not because I'm a militant vegan, but because meat and dairy are much less efficient ways to feed people than plant foods. You have to feed and water animals, as well as deal with their waste products--this takes far more resources than growing plant food with equal nutritional value. If you don't believe me, ask the World Health Organization.

As far as the OP's point, you make a very good point about the treatment of agricultural workers and other environmental issues, but this has nothing to do with veganism or vegetarianism, for the following reasons:
--GMO soy and corn get fed to llivestock animals (in fact most of the soy and corn grown in the US are fed to livestock).
--Workers in factory farms and slaughter houses don't get treated much if any better than other agricultural workers.
--People who eat meat also eat tomatoes, grapes, etc. as well.

My point is that the treatment of farm workers is NOT an argument against avoiding meat and other animal products for ethical reasons. I think treating people and animals ethically go hand in hand. Also, keep in mind that as a proportion of their overall earnings, Americans spend far less on food than they did 50 years ago. This is not to dismiss the fact that many Americans are food insecure, especially in the current economy, but, overall the expectation that food should be cheap and plentiful has resulted in a system that has cut costs where ever possible, at the expense of workers and animals.

On a personal note, when I lived in an area with viable farmer's markets I used them. I talked to the people who grew my food every week. Unfortunately, I can no longer do that, so I do what I can, including buying organic and non-gmo foods.

rockerbabyy

i do actually - the majority of my produce comes from local organic farms and is delivered once a week.

i agree that there are horrible conditions out there for farmers and GMO really isnt as great as people say.

vim_n_vigor

GM food have increased "shelf life" and allowed for those who would otherwise go hungry and starve to survive starvation. Grains and other wholesome foods can make their way to N Korea, China, Africa, Vietnam etc. because it won't rot like just a generation ago. Is it better to have GM foods and save hundreds of thousands of lives? I'll go with YES.



But everyone has their "thing", if being an anti GM foods advocate is yours, good luck to you.

I am not opposed to all GM foods. Some do have very valid reasons to be used. For others, they are a bit more sketchy, and appear to be more for making money than for saving lives. Some of the articles I am reading even are raising concerns that some of the newer GM foods cause injury and harm to those that consume them too. It is hard to tell what is fearmongering and what is valid, but it isn't all saving lives and producing longer shelf lives.

MattGetsMad

I thought this was going to be kind of a joke thread and was surprised to see it was not.

I made the transition to plant based food Nov 1st, 2011. I've yet to meet any stereotypical angry vegans. In fact, the very few vegans I've met (Florida here) have been very cool and supremely helpful and I'm a card carrying member of the NRA and a registered republican!

So op, who are you mad at??? Vegans? Farmers? Vegan Farmers?

I don't think seeing a video of the way animals are slaughtered and going: "gross" is morally equivalent to eating a salad.

NemesisJRM

Do the Barcodes on Products Reveal the Country of Origin?

There's an e-mail alert circulating on the Internet that claims you can tell a food product's country of origin by looking at the first three numbers of the bar code. For example, the alert says that all barcodes ranging from 690 to 695 indicate products made in China and that barcodes beginning with 471 indicate products made in Taiwan.

Given the concern over food made in China these days, this e-mail is quickly making its rounds on the Internet, so I decided to check it out. Unfortunately, it turns out that finding out a food product's country of origin is not as simple as the e-mail alert claims.

According to Snopes, the first three digits of the barcode merely indicate in which country the barcode was assigned, not in which country the product was produced.

So, for example, a company that is based in Switzerland but has a manufacturing plant in China would have a Swiss barcode.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to figure out where our food comes from, as Sara Bongiorni, author of "A Year Without Made in China," found out when she tried to eliminate all Chinese products from her family's shopping list for one year. A CNN article about her experiment states:

The United States requires labels on seafood to mark where it came from. However, that's the exception. With most foods, companies are not required to label where ingredients come from, only where the food was packaged or processed.

That means it is possible a frozen dinner, for example, could have 20 different ingredients from 20 different countries, food analysts say.

So how about you? Are you trying to avoid food from China or is it so difficult to do so that you don't even try?

AnarchoGen

I grow as much as I can, purchase what I can at the farmer's market, then last resort is getting the rest at the grocery store. Our local store has a local food section where it sells locally grown foods. I usually attack that area first.

speedyf

Lets just release a zombie plague that will wipe out half the population and then we can start over....farmers, builders, artists, thinkers, creators. I like how we used to be and we can live off the land!!! That is why I posted about a week ago I keep thinking of selling all my stuff and buying a farm or working on one and learn to live off the land again.

Sounds crazy but I have tons of respect for people that still live that lifestyle.

I would totally love to have a farm!

I'm part of the lucky ones I guess. I have hens at home that gives me delicious eggs every morning, horses to take care of my grass, and I do buy my meat (beef and pig) from the same local farmer that sells me chickens. I rarely buy any meat at the store... And during the summer, when deers and skunks don't attack my garden, I manage to have my own veggies on the table... And I totally love that lifestyle. I would love to have my own farm, but money-wise, that will never happen. But that's OK. I love the miniature farm that I have home.