Another non-believer of "starvation mode"?

lh12xx

I was just reading and interview with Faith Toogood, the nutritionist in the Biggest Loser UK house, and she made a statement that makes me think she is also a non-believer in "starvation mode". Seems pretty simple to me ...

If someone is watching what they eat and exercise, but still not losing weight, how would you advise them?
"People lose weight at different rates, but if they are exercising and not losing weight they are probably still eating too much. I would suggest either continuing to shrink their portions or up their activity levels. Nothing complicated."

You can read the full interview here: http://www.itv.com/biggestloser/extras/interviewwithfaithtoogood/

Note: I'm not saying I personally don't believe in starvation mode, before anyone gives me grief!

sloew

So what would she say for someone like me who is running about 4 miles + doing strength training most days who is still not losing a whole lot? I'm 5'6 and even when I had my calories at 1200 I wasn't losing.... Should I still cut back??!!??

Ok that being said I just recently upped my calories so I am not going under 1200 calories but seriously...

Just wondering.

btdublin

I'm still Starvation Mode Agnostic....

Although I don't think she is saying that here. She is probably referring to people previously on huge calorie intakes and is simplifying her response in this. We know how complicated and controversial this subject is, and not many people are only eating 1200 cals or less per day.

I have been on about 1200-1400 per day net since 1st Jan and am still losing well. I feel like i'd be surprised if I plateaued, it seems counter-intuitive, but we shall see.

CyberEd312

After 31 months and losing 295 lbs. and all the trial and error that I have went through and I am speaking from my own experience of course there is such a think as creating such a huge deficit between your diet and exercise that your body responds by slowing down your metabolism and start retaining nutrition that you are feeding it because with the deficit you are giving it , it has no idea when the next meal is going to come hence the term starvation mode effect get thrown around. I don't necessarily like the term in its general form but the effects are real.. believe me..... I have lived and learned the hard way. just my 2 cents........

asmithson19

Thanks for this! I am a non-believer from prior personal experience that noone can seem to explain!
Many ppl on here are strong believers and criticise diarys, so this info helps! Thanks!

BlaireV

It is a term that is thrown around too often and used way too loosely. Most peer reviewed, scientific studies of starvation mode don't support most people's ideas of it.

fteale

I agree with her. I am a firm non-believer in "starvation mode"

sandown12

I dont beleive in it eirther as people that dont eat much get real skinny look at people that have eating disorders if starvation mode was true no one would get very thin.

I do feel though our bodys get used to the amount of exercise we do so we have to up it change it and then gradually lower the calories to adjust,I do know though when I did a oplan in the uk rosemary conerly I was 240lbs and they set me at 1200 calories and 3 aerobic classes a week I lost 0 thats as it was too low and my body held onto the fat,thats the thing it do holds it a while then eventually if you keep eating very little and exercsing you will lose the weight depending on how much you weight to start,this is why I find this hard to find the right amount of calories to eat to lose in the begining then adjusting them!

Lozze

I was just reading and interview with Faith Toogood, the nutritionist in the Biggest Loser UK house

This is where I stoped reading. Anyone who would work on that show does not care about health. I seriously doubt their knowledge or think they're a sell out because if they had ANY knowledge about health they would not be associated with that show.

For those who believe you can keep eating less and less and it won't affect your body in any way, that's fine. It's your body you'll be screwing up. Your metabolisim.

Swampstar

From personal experience the whole 'starvation mode' thing is a load of bull. I know that if I eat one salad a day, or a bowl of cereal a day and nothing else I will be a nice 120lbs. At 5'8" that's pretty slim. My body has never gone into 'starvation mode'. I also have a friend who is a recovering anorexic, there's no way she would have managed to get down to 5 stone if her body went into starvation mode. Especially not with the amount of cheese and hot chocolate she ate, by rights she should have put on weight!

Zero2hero2013

scientists have proven that if you dont eat for 3 day/72 hours your metabolism starts to slow. thats starvation mode kicking in, the study also concluded that your metabolism didnt slow at all in the first 3 days in fact i think it said it went up as your survival mode kicks in which means you actually need to go get food! certain hormones are released to give you that energised feeling
i believe many people dont track truly what they are eating. ohh that looks like 100g of rice, when actually it was closer to 140 now do this on most things you home prepare and it mounts up! also i believe people that dont lose, but i think more then likely they are dropping lbs of fat of slowly and replacing them slowly with muscles. your body has so many muscles in it and most people dont have all of them to a descent level. i certainly dont.
the muscle gains would purely be newbie gains for actually making the muscle work.

kcmg0730

The less you weigh, the less calories you need to fuel your body. So if you are thin, lowering your calorie intake below 1200 won't necessarily put your body into starvation mode and stop your metabolism. Plateaus are natural, and will happen, but starvation mode is actually a myth.

Starvation mode happens when you don't eat ANYTHING at all...that's your body's way of coping with NO food. Eating less than you should on a daily basis won't cause your body to shut down.

btdublin

scientists have proven that if you dont eat for 3 day/72 hours your metabolism starts to slow. thats starvation mode kicking in, the study also concluded that your metabolism didnt slow at all in the first 3 days in fact i think it said it went up as your survival mode kicks in which means you actually need to go get food! certain hormones are released to give you that energised feeling

Good point rogue, this seems to make sense to me.

TwtyMami35

The less you weigh, the less calories you need to fuel your body. So if you are thin, lowering your calorie intake below 1200 won't necessarily put your body into starvation mode and stop your metabolism. Plateaus are natural, and will happen, but starvation mode is actually a myth.

Starvation mode happens when you don't eat ANYTHING at all...that's your body's way of coping with NO food. Eating less than you should on a daily basis won't cause your body to shut down.

TwtyMami35

This is the best statement I have heard thus far!!! As a biology major, I strongly agree with this statement!

Swampstar

^^^ That's not eating at all, which is starvation! Lowering calories doesn't make you go into starvation mode. I know if I eat 1200 kcals and exercise I pile on weight. My calories are restricted to 600 a day for me to maintain, less for me to lose. As for eating back exercise calories, I would be HUGE!!!!!

Everyone's different and need different amounts of energy, one persons healthy diet might be a massively bad one for someone else. I have friends on here that eat fast food every day and still lose weight, again if I did that I would be massive. Horses for courses...

chrishgt4

First of all, "starvation mode" isn't a 1 day thing - it comes over some time of extreme calorific deficit.

Your body gradually slows the metabolism and so those days when you may eat too much become even worse, and you end up having to under eat by even more to fight against your ever-lowering metabolism.

Then on the other side - when you eat a normal amount, your body isn't used to that much. Over time your metabolism will increase, but it will take time. Hence people you yo-yo their weights.

In those that are obese, the effects are pretty low since they have massive fat stores to survive on. However, on those who aren't, and that means up to around 30 on the BMI scale, it starts to tip the other way. What also happens is that your body will start dipping into your muscles to find the nutrition it is after and so you will lose weight, but it won't be all fat you are losing.

This has an added effect of lowering your metabolism, as the more muscle mass you have, the more calories you burn.

This is why in anyone who is not obese such low calorie diets are detrimental and 500 under your daily allowance is ideal.

People on such low diets are just after a quick(er) fix, but it doesn't really exist. 1lb a week is all the average person can reasonably expect to lose.

Tiff587

After 31 months and losing 295 lbs. and all the trial and error that I have went through and I am speaking from my own experience of course there is such a think as creating such a huge deficit between your diet and exercise that your body responds by slowing down your metabolism and start retaining nutrition that you are feeding it because with the deficit you are giving it , it has no idea when the next meal is going to come hence the term starvation mode effect get thrown around. I don't necessarily like the term in its general form but the effects are real.. believe me..... I have lived and learned the hard way. just my 2 cents........

First well done on your weight loss! AMAZING!

I've heard a lot about starvation mode, it seems to make sense, as the body is very good at survival. I have kept my calories at 1200 and have eaten at least part of my exercise calories back. I'm only a few weeks in so I am listening to a lot of advice on here!
I have to say looking at your weight loss, you obviously have this down, and any advice you give will definitely be top of my list!!!
xx

chrishgt4

scientists have proven that if you dont eat for 3 day/72 hours your metabolism starts to slow. thats starvation mode kicking in, the study also concluded that your metabolism didnt slow at all in the first 3 days in fact i think it said it went up as your survival mode kicks in which means you actually need to go get food! certain hormones are released to give you that energised feeling

Good point rogue, this seems to make sense to me.

This is exactly right as well, hence why cycling diets work so well

heybales

"Starvation mode" - that is the body's response to real lack of food, fat burning is turned way down to conserve the best energy source it has. Muscle will be broken down to provide amino acids for conversion into glucose for energy, with the little bit of fat that is used. Glucose stores are maintained at minimum levels to provide food for brain and heart.
Bad state to be in, and way over used on this site for simply under eating.

That being said, she is also being naive over basic human functions. Now maybe her context was in the place of contestants with measured BMR so they knew exactly where the diet and exercise had to be for maximum weight loss.
But her comment hardly applies to sites like MFP where that is all misunderstood or unknown by way too many folks.

If your real BMR (let's not say estimated or calculated, let's say real test was done) was 1400.
If you really ate at 1200 suggested, because your maintenance calories was 2200, and you select 2lb/week.

What is your real BMR, metabolism, going to do? BMR is the basic energy required to maintain the body at rest. That energy cannot come from itself ultimately, it must come outside.

So body can easily lower BMR to the new level you are feeding it. No wonder most sites say metabolism will take a hit of 15-30% depending on how restrictive. 200 calorie burn lost out of 1400 is 15%.

When that finally happens, the weight loss progress either slows to a crawl or stops, just depending on how far below the BMR the deficit went. In example above, BMR is now at 1200, calculation of maintenance calories would now be a tad below 2000. Now only a 800 calories deficit. No more 2 lbs/week. Solution given by that nutritionist - eat less. I think we can do the math and see what happens here.

Now what happens if this person works out 2 times a day for a real measured 500 calories, whatever that takes time-wise?

How many calories are left to feed the organism the energy for basic human life?
200 calories.

This may not be starvation mode at this point, but I'm sorry, what is the body going to do if this is kept up in a consistent basis?

I've not seen the studies as to how low BMR can go and just be considered low, rather than unhealthy or messed up. But that is pretty bad.
That is hair falling out, organs having problems, teeth problems, skin, ect. Several blogs of people that did that.

Shoot, several posts from ones currently doing it. MFP stops the daily calorie goal at 1200, no matter what the maintenance calories are at and the math would normally cause, for safety reasons.
And then that is defeated by folks not understanding the whole concept and not eating back their exercise calories.
Besides, that calorie goal could already be 400 below their estimated BMR, because they just don't have enough maintenance calories.

Starvation mode? - if you have an eating disorder you maintain for too long.
Can you follow some suggestions and get there? Possibly, especially if you have a self image problem and force yourself there.

Michelle_H

The less you weigh, the less calories you need to fuel your body. So if you are thin, lowering your calorie intake below 1200 won't necessarily put your body into starvation mode and stop your metabolism. Plateaus are natural, and will happen, but starvation mode is actually a myth.

Starvation mode happens when you don't eat ANYTHING at all...that's your body's way of coping with NO food. Eating less than you should on a daily basis won't cause your body to shut down.

Definitely!

Well here's my two penneth At 94.5 kilos I decided to stick to 1200 cals a day and not eat my exercise calories back and I dropped 15 kilos in 12 weeks. At almost 95 kilos - no-one can accuse me of starvin' lol. Then I stopped counting cals for a few months and put 8kgs back on in the next 12 weeks so I'm back to my 1200 limit (or thereabouts) and I've dropped 4 kgs in 3 weeks.

I think if you only have a few kilos/pounds to lose, exercise several times a week and then limit your food intake to a low 1000 or 1200, then there's a chance your body holds onto the food it gets as it simply isn't get enough to function on and has a slight panic attack. That's the only time I think that 'starvation mode' may occur and perhaps it's just the wrong wording for what happens. I think in order to lose those last few pounds it's more about the types of food that you eat rather than the calories.

20 yrs ago, I exercised daily, lived off coffee and cigarettes and there was certainly no hint of 'starvation mode' so I guess that puts me in the non believer category.

lh12xx

I'm not sure if I'm for or against, I was just broadcasting someone else's opinion.

I guess I'll find out for myself when I hit a plateau

TheDoctor90

All I know is, if I ate 1200 calories a day my hunger pangs would kill me.

CyberEd312

After 31 months and losing 295 lbs. and all the trial and error that I have went through and I am speaking from my own experience of course there is such a think as creating such a huge deficit between your diet and exercise that your body responds by slowing down your metabolism and start retaining nutrition that you are feeding it because with the deficit you are giving it , it has no idea when the next meal is going to come hence the term starvation mode effect get thrown around. I don't necessarily like the term in its general form but the effects are real.. believe me..... I have lived and learned the hard way. just my 2 cents........

First well done on your weight loss! AMAZING!

I've heard a lot about starvation mode, it seems to make sense, as the body is very good at survival. I have kept my calories at 1200 and have eaten at least part of my exercise calories back. I'm only a few weeks in so I am listening to a lot of advice on here!
I have to say looking at your weight loss, you obviously have this down, and any advice you give will definitely be top of my list!!!
xx

Thank You, I too would have to say that reading an article or a website isn't quite the same as living through it and I am not saying what has worked for me is the end all be all but I do know that I have been through about every scenario possible over the last 32 months. After I was able to walk again and support my own weight my exercise kept increasing but my mentality to eat more didn't. I thought the bigger the deficit of calories the more weight I could lose. So I got to the point where I was consuming under my BMR and burning well over 1000 calories a day and I now know because of this my body started cannibalize muscle as well as my remaining fat stores and it cost me alot of time and wasted energy cause I hit plateau's like crazy and really screwed up my metabolism. It took me awhile to wrap my head around the fact I either had to exercise less or eat more... Once I figured this out though it was lights on for my body, My current BMR is 2450 and I split train now most days and now consume 3200-3400 calories a day (I eat back 85% of my exercise calories) and am losing 1 to 2 lbs. a week weightloss. So I am firmly in the camp of believing in what starvation can do to your body if you don't follow a proper caloric deficit.......

naplidon96

the "Starvation Mode" IS BULLSH*T! There has been studies done to show if you "stop yourself from eating" you cannot GAIN weight simply because your not EATING anything to make u gain! Think about it, how do all anorexic people stay skinny? They dont eat, and when they dont eat, they LOSE weight, not GAIN. Not saying this is right to do, just saying the truth

btdublin

EdD,

Just read your profile. Amazing results - "half the man I was"!
Very impressive.

Did you find starvation mode was a problem when you were starting out and much higher BF %? I.e. where you eating much more when you were much bigger (say 2400-3000 cals NET per day) as supposed to or did you just drop straight down to 1500 cals NET?

I understand you must do alot of exercise to be still eating 3400 cals per day now but what is your NETs?

Cheers

steenie320

I've always thought that we need to eat more GOOD food, in order to raise our metabolic rate and lose weight...My problem has always been that I can survive on black coffee and pitta bread until the evening and then I would hit the pasta because I would be so hungry! My body would then react by producing loads of glucose which could not be stored in any other way than fat...and there you have it - a belly! My blood sugar level was up and down all day and I was moody and chubby. That was a year or so ago and I have lost - without exercising and without really trying, 14lbs just by changing my eating habits.
I now eat 5 or 6 small and nutritious meals a day, I eat nuts and seeds and lentils and chickpeas as well as meat and fish and I am a lot healthier for it (I don't do it all the time, but I am aware of the need to put good things into my body, although I find salad a chore!) My blood sugar stays on an even keel, and if I feel myself dipping, I have snack so that I don't end up gorging at the next meal.
I guess the whole point about calorie counting and whether or not starvation mode is real,is that if you are going to eat chocolate for your 1200 cals a day, then you are going to be unhealthy and your body won't know what it is doing due to the highs and lows of your bloody sugar (caffeine is another thing that will do this)...regardless of your weight.
I think the real issue about food and exercise is the type of food we put in to our systems. I have not lost any weight since going to the gym since September, but I am healthier, more toned and feel better - I suspect I should still be eating more though if I want to lose weight but at the moment, I am content to at least maintain the weight that I am at - as long as my waist starts to appear! ;o)

hottottie11

I hate the term "starvation mode". It is the most overused, overabused word on this site. However, I do believe that if your deficit is larger than your body can handle, you risk losing muscle mass along with fat. This in turns decreases your metabolic rate and makes it harder to lose weight and easier to gain it back.

The more fat reserves you have, the larger the deficit you can have.

MaximalLife

The "Biggest Loser" is an encyclopedia of what NOT to do.
And forget the term "starvation mode"
That's overly dramatic. Your metabolism slows - fact!
Nobody can deny that with any credibility.
So, you can follow the MFP recommendation or join the ranks of "Biggest Loser" yoyo's who gain and lose, gain and lose their whole lives before dying fat.

Your call.

kritterxx

It's science, guys. You metabolism does slow. It becomes so very hard for your body to break down food when it's not used to breaking down certain amounts. Look at recovery from eating disorders - they're put on meal plans that are only around 1200 calories, if at that, yet they still experience weight gain. Why? Because their bodies weren't used to it.

I think everyone needs to remember that "starvation" refers to less than 600 calories a day, I believe. 1200 is the recommended weightloss calorie intake (for women), just because you're going lower than that, doesn't mean you're starving. Also, people need to remember that other things will boost your metabolism, thus speeding up a metabolism that may have been slowing down from decreasing intake. Things like exercise, muscle mass, green tea and caffeine etc. all help boost the metabolism.

Whilst in the depths of my ED that was what I used to 'maintain' a 'normal' metabolism. I lived off tea and black coffee, and exercised ridiculously; convinced that this was speeding my metabolism up, balancing the fact that body was starving and basically destroying itself. Of course, these tactics didn't help when recovery was forced upon me. 15kg went on very, very easily. Had I perhaps maintained the 1200 calories and done everything by the book; my weight probably wouldn't have gone back on in such a fashion. Because I wouldn't have mucked my metabolism up so much.

Also, when you are starving (in terms of the medical definition; i.e. 600 odd calories), your weight loss will slow. You will have to step up your calorific outtake in order to maintain steady loss. This goes for people who are in the 'healthy' BMI section. Those who are in the overweight or obese categories experience faster weightloss. I think of it as perhaps their bodies thanking them, as most of us have that one weight that we stay at or sink to. Once you meet that anchoring weight, then things become harder. Perhaps that's your metabolism going "stop, we're good here", and hindering you from losing more weight.

MaraDiaz

I believe in it because I used to eat far less than anyone I knew and burned far more calories (warehouse job and a gym membership I actually used), but I struggled to lose weight and could never maintain a healthy weight. I was always going up or down the scale, and if it was down, it meant I was severely starving myself (500 calories or less a day). The only difference between me and the people I knew back then was that I was a yo-yo dieter from my teenage years on and they weren't.