Blood pH

badgerbadger1

This x 11ty billion. Let's not overthink this. Your body, if you are healthy is fully capable of managing minor changes in blood pH and relatively quickly. This is really a non-issue for anyone who isn't hospitalized for other reasons.

But I LIKE to over-think things

Seriously... I get that these types of threads aren't for everyone. I didn't post it 'cause I want people to obsess over diet and blood pH. Exactly the opposite. I'd rather people stop obsessing and stop making the claim that <insert miracle food> is making their blood more alkaline.

Oh I understand the intent of your post. We're essentially saying the same thing. The fact is people mess with their blood gas way more with 15 mins of hard working out and the body brings you back into stasis quickly. So not sure why anyone would even be concerned about the pH of their food. It's a complete non issue.

insane4train

Oh I understand the intent of your post. We're essentially saying the same thing. The fact is people mess with their blood gas way more with 15 mins of hard working out and the body brings you back into stasis quickly. So not sure why anyone would even be concerned about the pH of their food. It's a complete non issue.
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like!!! AMEN

tataliciousd89

The normal range of blood pH is 7.35-7.45, anything outside this range will quickly lead to death if not treated immediately. Normally your body has three mechanisms to regulate blood pH, 1) blood buffer system, which consists of molecules that take up and release hydrogen atoms as needed. When the blood buffer system becomes overwhelmed the 2) lungs compensate by blowing off C02. This works to raise pH, but will lead to imbalances if done for to long. 3) The kidneys can selectively secrete or reabsorb substances as needed to maintain blood pH. These systems will always keep your pH within the normal limits unless there is a serious disease process at work preventing them from working properly. Long story short is it really doesnt matter what you eat as far a pH goes.

LabRat529

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dead neuron.

>.>

Has nothing to do with pH, but I was excited and had to post.

Also... I'm reading more (including the links Pu posted. Thank you for those) and there DOES seem to be a need for dietary bicarbonate, specifically in regards to maintaining bone density. Apparently, your blood will steal bicarb sometimes from the bone (and potassium and calcium) if it is short on bicarb when regulating pH. I don't know how important that is to the average person. But it's probably that this is the source of the food-regulates-blood-pH myth.

It's a good reason to eat your veggies... but as far as I can tell, it's more the biochemicals (potassium, calcium, bicarbonate) that are important and not really the acidity or alkalinity of the veggies (even though bicarb does make the veggies alkaline).

DenverKos

This x 11ty billion. Let's not overthink this. Your body, if you are healthy is fully capable of managing minor changes in blood pH and relatively quickly. This is really a non-issue for anyone who isn't hospitalized for other reasons.

But I LIKE to over-think things

Seriously... I get that these types of threads aren't for everyone. I didn't post it 'cause I want people to obsess over diet and blood pH. Exactly the opposite. I'd rather people stop obsessing and stop making the claim that <insert miracle food> is making their blood more alkaline.

This type if thread, with the respectful, scientific discussion is awesome! Far better than a lot of the other posts here thanks for posting!

Momkat65

:embarassed:

badgerbadger1

I understand all the biochemical basis for this theory because I've trained in it and I work with people who have severe acid base imbalances daily, in the real world, in life and death situations. It's my job to maintain or improve that balance in real time with CRRT, ventilator manipulation, sedation, and titrating IV infusions, internal warming and cooling methods.

The fact of the matter is, yes theoretically you can affect the acid base balance by what you eat, minimally. However, unless you are going to down an entire bottle of Tums (or two) or other intentionally caustic substances, or otherwise have comorbidities you will not disrupt the system. We're built to handle minimal disruptions, such as larger swings produced by heavy exertional activity. Comparatively speaking running at top speed for 5 mins will tax your system more than 15 meals could. Yet we recover within minutes. Your body is perfectly capable of managing a slower rise in alkalosis or acidosis produced by food. Managing these fluctuations is normal physiological activity, much like regulating body temperature.

I must strongly disagree with the notion that eating acidic or alkaline foods taxes your bones and muscles and leads to disease. I'd like to see some recent meta-analysis supporting this hypothesis. My practice is heavily reliant on empirical evidence, and I've seen nothing of any value to support this.

fightingautism

The issue with "body pH" that is touted by some alternative medicine folk, and I do believe "alternative medicine" isn't that pie-in-the-sky in many respects, is that "body pH" could mean anything...urine, skin, blood. Urine & skin pH have huge ranges compared with blood pH. I studied metabolic acidosis in-depth when my daughter kept getting it as a preschooler. Most of the posters are dead-on, the body compensates with blood pH. I was taught in nursing school that the body cannot much survive outside of 7.35-7.45. I have seen one paint huffer show up with a blood pH of 6.3. The MD in his 20 yrs of practice had never seen a pH so acidic alive (and the pt wasn't far from dead) & ordered repeat tests two times. I don't know what became of this man, he had the most unbelievable labs you'd ever see.

You can develop metabolic acidosis when certain aspects of the kreb's cycle are ineffective. In addition, read up on the 4 complexes of mitochondrial disorder, which is within the kreb's cycle. For example, many patients with mito disorders will have elevated lactic acid in their blood, or elevated pyruvate in their blood, yet their pH be relatively normal because the respiratory system is trying to make up for it. Urine organic acids are often used to discover markers for metabolic/mitochondrial problems.

My long-winded, not-much-scientific response is to simply say, notice in these infomercials the term "body pH" being used instead of specifying blood pH. "Body pH" makes it vague and more difficult to rationally discuss, which I believe is the purpose.

LabRat529

I understand all the biochemical basis for this theory because I've trained in it and I work with people who have severe acid base imbalances daily, in the real world, in life and death situations. It's my job to maintain or improve that balance in real time with CRRT, ventilator manipulation, sedation, and titrating IV infusions, internal warming and cooling methods.

The fact of the matter is, yes theoretically you can affect the acid base balance by what you eat, minimally. However, unless you are going to down an entire bottle of Tums (or two) or other intentionally caustic substances, or otherwise have comorbidities you will not disrupt the system. We're built to handle minimal disruptions, such as larger swings produced by heavy exertional activity. Comparatively speaking running at top speed for 5 mins will tax your system more than 15 meals could. Yet we recover within minutes. Your body is perfectly capable of managing a slower rise in alkalosis or acidosis produced by food. Managing these fluctuations is normal physiological activity, much like regulating body temperature.

I must strongly disagree with the notion that eating acidic or alkaline foods taxes your bones and muscles and leads to disease. I'd like to see some recent meta-analysis supporting this hypothesis. My practice is heavily reliant on empirical evidence, and I've seen nothing of any value to support this.

Love this post... you made some great points.

LabRat529

The issue with "body pH" that is touted by some alternative medicine folk, and I do believe "alternative medicine" isn't that pie-in-the-sky in many respects, is that "body pH" could mean anything...urine, skin, blood. Urine & skin pH have huge ranges compared with blood pH. I studied metabolic acidosis in-depth when my daughter kept getting it as a preschooler. Most of the posters are dead-on, the body compensates with blood pH. I was taught in nursing school that the body cannot much survive outside of 7.35-7.45. I have seen one paint huffer show up with a blood pH of 6.3. The MD in his 20 yrs of practice had never seen a pH so acidic alive (and the pt wasn't far from dead) & ordered repeat tests two times. I don't know what became of this man, he had the most unbelievable labs you'd ever see.

You can develop metabolic acidosis when certain aspects of the kreb's cycle are ineffective. In addition, read up on the 4 complexes of mitochondrial disorder, which is within the kreb's cycle. For example, many patients with mito disorders will have elevated lactic acid in their blood, or elevated pyruvate in their blood, yet their pH be relatively normal because the respiratory system is trying to make up for it. Urine organic acids are often used to discover markers for metabolic/mitochondrial problems.

My long-winded, not-much-scientific response is to simply say, notice in these infomercials the term "body pH" being used instead of specifying blood pH. "Body pH" makes it vague and more difficult to rationally discuss, which I believe is the purpose.

Also very interesting... I'll probably putter around with this stuff because I'm interested in it... I'm not surprised about the mitochondrial disorders. That's one of the things that happens in brain cells when they're under oxidative stress (or other types of stresses for that matter).

And... yes... body pH vs blood pH is ... well when you say 'body' it's harder to get at the truth. Body could include the gut and the urine even though I tend to think of those as "outside" the body... a separate compartment.

badgerbadger1

The issue with "body pH" that is touted by some alternative medicine folk, and I do believe "alternative medicine" isn't that pie-in-the-sky in many respects, is that "body pH" could mean anything...urine, skin, blood. Urine & skin pH have huge ranges compared with blood pH. I studied metabolic acidosis in-depth when my daughter kept getting it as a preschooler. Most of the posters are dead-on, the body compensates with blood pH. I was taught in nursing school that the body cannot much survive outside of 7.35-7.45. I have seen one paint huffer show up with a blood pH of 6.3. The MD in his 20 yrs of practice had never seen a pH so acidic alive (and the pt wasn't far from dead) & ordered repeat tests two times. I don't know what became of this man, he had the most unbelievable labs you'd ever see.

You can develop metabolic acidosis when certain aspects of the kreb's cycle are ineffective. In addition, read up on the 4 complexes of mitochondrial disorder, which is within the kreb's cycle. For example, many patients with mito disorders will have elevated lactic acid in their blood, or elevated pyruvate in their blood, yet their pH be relatively normal because the respiratory system is trying to make up for it. Urine organic acids are often used to discover markers for metabolic/mitochondrial problems.

My long-winded, not-much-scientific response is to simply say, notice in these infomercials the term "body pH" being used instead of specifying blood pH. "Body pH" makes it vague and more difficult to rationally discuss, which I believe is the purpose.

The body can survive outside of the 7.35 to 7.45, that's just the healthy range. pH of 7.0 is incompatible with life however.
It's quite common to see COPDers walking around day to day with CO2 levels in the 80s and partially compensated or fully compensated blood gases. I see septic patients with pHs in the high 6's fairly frequently, obviously they're pretty ill though.

My guess is that huffer would have either been dialysed and/or intubated to bring his blood pH back on line, however it's probably only a matter of time until he killed himself with his habit..

badgerbadger1

I understand all the biochemical basis for this theory because I've trained in it and I work with people who have severe acid base imbalances daily, in the real world, in life and death situations. It's my job to maintain or improve that balance in real time with CRRT, ventilator manipulation, sedation, and titrating IV infusions, internal warming and cooling methods.

The fact of the matter is, yes theoretically you can affect the acid base balance by what you eat, minimally. However, unless you are going to down an entire bottle of Tums (or two) or other intentionally caustic substances, or otherwise have comorbidities you will not disrupt the system. We're built to handle minimal disruptions, such as larger swings produced by heavy exertional activity. Comparatively speaking running at top speed for 5 mins will tax your system more than 15 meals could. Yet we recover within minutes. Your body is perfectly capable of managing a slower rise in alkalosis or acidosis produced by food. Managing these fluctuations is normal physiological activity, much like regulating body temperature.

I must strongly disagree with the notion that eating acidic or alkaline foods taxes your bones and muscles and leads to disease. I'd like to see some recent meta-analysis supporting this hypothesis. My practice is heavily reliant on empirical evidence, and I've seen nothing of any value to support this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18940881

"CONCLUSIONS:

Bicarbonate, but not potassium, had a favorable effect on bone resorption and calcium excretion. This suggests that increasing the alkali content of the diet may attenuate bone loss in healthy older adults."

Notice that bicarbonate is a negative ion, potassium is not, it has a neutral charge.

That's a single study, not a meta analysis nor several studies.
It denotes a positive effect, which does not mean the opposite produces a negative effect. That would require a separate study. You cannot conclude from this study that acidic foods cause disease.
This has little relevance to the topic of blood pH.