Silly question, but protein right after workout?

DrG3n3

I usually am ravenous right after a workout (I do insanity and c25k 5-6 days a week, sometimes both in one day) and usually make a protein shake. I do this to add protein because I don't feel like I get enough through regular meals (though I do add in greek yogurt or protein bars and stuff) and my question is this: If I drink a protein shake, or even eat, RIGHT after a workout, does that render any of my working ineffective for weight loss? This might be a dumb question, but I genuinely don't know, and the search just gave me threads where people asked about adding them for extra protein or soreness. I just want to make sure that doing this right after my workout doesn't mean my body will use this instead of burning this fat. Again, sorry if this is a dumb question. Thanks guys!

Sl1ghtly

No. Unless you have too much, then yes.

jamielise2

I have actually been told that having some protein within 30 minutes of the workout actually helps with muscle recovery, minimizing soreness, etc. It does seem to help me...

Beastette

Agree with all of the above. Most of my workouts end in protein.

Bysshe

I'm not an expert, but most days I have a protein shake right after working out. It's been working for me.

DeadAnt_9

Having something to eat right after a workout is the best thing to do. If you dont eat after exercise your body thinks you are starving and will use the muscle instead of the fat for energy. Therefore any weight loss will actually be loss of muscle.

Eat something with a protein and carbs. I find a small tin of beans are the prefect snack.

DrG3n3

Fortunately for me, I don't know if I can physically have too much, because a darned sandwich nowadays makes my tummy feel stretched I have done workouts with out them and I feel much more sore the next day, so I really feel like it helps me (seeing as if I am sore, I grunt all day at work and sound like a wounded bear) though I really wanted to make sure I was doing my research right My weight loss seems pretty steady so I figured I'm not over doing it. Thanks guys.

chasityann32

Make sure that your drinking Whey Protein after your workouts and it should be consumed within 30 minutes after your workout, especially after participating in strength and weight training. Whey protein is the leanest protein out there. I do a super stack at this stage in my weight loss goal. I wake up drink Whey protein, drink Extend, which is BCAA 1000, I eat breakfast 30 minutes later. I workout 90 minutes later, then have my Whey Protein again, eat lunch 2 hours later, have a snack 2 hours later, eat dinner and an hour before bed I drink Casein Protein. Casein Protein is a slow digesting protein and keeps your metabolism working while your sleeping.

DrG3n3

Sounds like quite the regimen. I use whey protein, and stick with regular means every 3-4 hours. So I'll eat breakfast, a mid morning snack occasionally, lunch then a snack before my workout, the workout itself, and then the shake. Dinner comes a bit later, as I try to make sure I eat at a well enough time that I'm not starving before bed and likely to night time snack. I occasionally look at all those other supplements but I think the vitamin for my iron issue and the whey shake is probably enough to chubby ole me just trying to slim down right now

nutandbutter

Make sure that your drinking Whey Protein after your workouts and it should be consumed within 30 minutes after your workout, especially after participating in strength and weight training. Whey protein is the leanest protein out there. I do a super stack at this stage in my weight loss goal. I wake up drink Whey protein, drink Extend, which is BCAA 1000, I eat breakfast 30 minutes later. I workout 90 minutes later, then have my Whey Protein again, eat lunch 2 hours later, have a snack 2 hours later, eat dinner and an hour before bed I drink Casein Protein. Casein Protein is a slow digesting protein and keeps your metabolism working while your sleeping.

Broscience.

DeadAnt_9

Be careful if you are using protein shakes for long term. They can cause Liver and Kidney Damage. There are apparently also links to heart disease.

DrG3n3

Can you provide any sources? Not to sound rude, but I know the difference between causation and correlation, and would definitely like to read sources on these topics.

chrisdavey

Be careful if you are using protein shakes for long term. They can cause Liver and Kidney Damage. There are apparently also links to heart disease.

also broscience.

http://thebodyevolutionreport.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/40-things-you-should-know-science-part_3944.html

If you're total energy burnt for the day is less than you have intaken you will lose weight.

DrG3n3

Well we are all here to learn, and I am indeed open to it myself, so thank you. I like that website since it offers the journal articles as well as a condensed abstract and conclusion for them.

DeadAnt_9

Can you provide any sources? Not to sound rude, but I know the difference between causation and correlation, and would definitely like to read sources on these topics.

These are some websites that have the same theory...

http://www.livestrong.com/article/227769-long-term-effects-of-protein-shakes/
http://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Whey_Protein_Side_Effects

It is really hard to tell if there will be side effects of long term use.

fiberartist219

Just count it in your calories like you would anything else.

If I don't have some extra protein after strength training, I will hurt like a motherf#$%er and won't exercise again for days.

nikolaim5

Timing matter little with regard to exercise and protein intake. Until fairly recently it was thought necessary to consume protein within a short time period (or anabolic window) post workout to maximize muscle recovery and growth. The latest research suggests this in not true and in fact the "window" if you want to call it that is more like 24-48 hours.

chrisdavey

Can you provide any sources? Not to sound rude, but I know the difference between causation and correlation, and would definitely like to read sources on these topics.

These are some websites that have the same theory...

http://www.livestrong.com/article/227769-long-term-effects-of-protein-shakes/
http://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Whey_Protein_Side_Effects

It is really hard to tell if there will be side effects of long term use.

KEYWORDS
Katherine Zertasky warns against the excessive consumption of high-protein foods FOR PEOPLE WITH KIDNEY & LIVER DISEASE.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/227769-long-term-effects-of-protein-shakes/#ixzz1lf3HiiOt

DeadAnt_9

Can you provide any sources? Not to sound rude, but I know the difference between causation and correlation, and would definitely like to read sources on these topics.

These are some websites that have the same theory...

http://www.livestrong.com/article/227769-long-term-effects-of-protein-shakes/
http://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Whey_Protein_Side_Effects

It is really hard to tell if there will be side effects of long term use.

KEYWORDS
Katherine Zertasky warns against the excessive consumption of high-protein foods FOR PEOPLE WITH KIDNEY & LIVER DISEASE.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/227769-long-term-effects-of-protein-shakes/#ixzz1lf3HiiOt

It is hard to tell what could really go on with your body from consuming protein in that form. But the key sentence for me was.

"Over an extended period of time, protein shakes can damage the liver or kidneys, or may worsen pre-existing cases of organ failure."

I've always been a fan of getting nutrients (including protein) from a healthy diet. You get all the essential vitamins and minerals that way too.

mamagooskie

Protein is great after a workout. It helps muscles recover.

nikolaim5

"Over an extended period of time, protein shakes can damage the liver or kidneys, or may worsen pre-existing cases of organ failure."

Wow, if I was Katherine Zeratsky I'd be pissed at Livestrong and Juniper Russo. That article quoted Zeratsky completely out of context.

Russo said "Over an extended period of time, protein shakes can damage the liver or kidneys, or may worsen pre-existing cases of organ failure." That's some pretty scary stuff! Hold on, let's see where she got that info from.. Oh look, she lists two sources at the bottom of her "article" which are both Zeratsky's. Let's see what Zeratsky has to say, "Some high-protein diets restrict carbohydrate intake so much that they can result in nutritional deficiencies or insufficient fiber, which can cause such health problems as constipation and diverticulitis, and may increase your risk for certain types of cancer." Ahhhhhhh.

Basically Russo doesn't know how to read. So no, nothing wrong with high protein intake. The dangers Russo is talking about come from reducing carbs and fibre too low.

chaubner008

protein after workout is so important!!! not only are you feeding the muscles and restoring nutrients you used but you are helping to control cortisol levels....the stress hormones released when we exercise (exercise IS stress on our body, the recovery is how we burn (cardio) and grow (strength)) that cortisol will collect and stimulate fat storing hormones, suppressing fat burning ones...Remember, our bodies are made to conserve fat in times of stress because stress can mean famine...protein will reassure the body you are not in a state of famine and prevent the accumulation of this most horrible hormone (also vitamin C will help keep this hormone in check). The time after the workout is known as Power Hour...Body uses the protein most efficiently at this time...I live for my power hour! Feels so good to know I just finished a kick butt workout and now I am getting a beautiful lean protein to treat my body like my temple...I LOVE IT!!!! being smart and fit is amazing!! On top of the world!

Cr357

Be careful if you are using protein shakes for long term. They can cause Liver and Kidney Damage. There are apparently also links to heart disease.

also broscience.

http://thebodyevolutionreport.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/40-things-you-should-know-science-part_3944.html

If you're total energy burnt for the day is less than you have intaken you will lose weight.

This ^^^^^ . If you wanna schedule a meal or a protein shake post workout do so, as long as it fits your macros. But by no means is it necessary. Also the so called "anabolic window" (30 min post) was perpetrated to sell whey protein powders.

Acg67

The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.

You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.

[/quote]

Alan Aragon

From another post on the "dangers of excessive protein intake

Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79.
www.uni.edu/dolgener/Advanced_Sport.../protein_intake.pdf

Since there is evidence that protein intakes above the RDA may be beneficial to athletes, a risk–benefit analysis may be useful. An important consideration is the potential harm that may arise from elevated protein intakes. There is little research into the maximum tolerable protein intake in healthy individuals. It has been suggested that excessive protein intakes may increase calcium loss, thus affecting bone health. However, since a major portion of bone is protein, excessive protein does not appear to influence bone health. High protein intakes have been suggested to pose a risk for the kidneys but, in healthy individuals with no underlying kidney disease (presumably most elite athletes), there is no evidence for harm to kidneys with higher intakes. Certainly, it would be detrimental for an athlete to consume excess protein at the expense of other nutrients required to support the necessary level of training and competition. There is a suggestion that intakes greater than 40% of total energy intake might be the upper limit. Protein intakes greater than 40% may limit intake of fat and/or carbohydrates, thus compromising the benefits of these nutrients. However, given the high energy intakes of most elite athletes, protein intakes higher than 40% are unlikely in most. Even a small female restricting energy intake and consuming only 1500 kcal would need to consume 150 g of protein to reach 40%.

High-Protein Weight Loss Diets and Purported Adverse Effects: Where is the Evidence? Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2004, 1:45-51 doi:10.1186/1550-2783-1-1-45
http://www.jissn.com/content/1/1/45#B4

Indeed, the recent study Dawson-Hughes et al. did not confirm the perception that increased dietary protein results in urinary calcium loss.[36] According to Dawson-Hughes et al., "Theconstellation of findings that meat supplements containing 55 g/d protein, when exchanged for carbohydrate did not significantlyincrease urinary calcium excretion and were associated withhigher levels of serum IGF-I and lower levels of the bone resorption marker, N-telopeptide, together with a lack of significant correlationof urinary N-telopeptide with urinary calcium excretion in thehigh protein group (in contrast to the low protein) point tothe possibility that higher meat intake may potentially improvebone mass in many older men and women."

Finally, the cross-cultural and population studies that showed a positive association between animal-protein intake and hip fracture risk did not consider other lifestyle or dietary factors that may protect or increase the risk of fracture.[35] It is of some interest that the author of the most cited paper favoring the earlier hypothesis that high-protein intake promotes osteoporosis no longer believes that protein is harmful to bone.[34] In fact, he concluded that the balance of the evidence seems to indicate the opposite.

Despite its role in nitrogen excretion, there are presently no data in the scientific literature demonstrating the healthy kidney will be damaged by the increased demands of protein consumed in quantities above the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA). Furthermore, real world examples support this contention since kidney problems are nonexistent in the bodybuilding community in which high-protein intake has been the norm for over half a century.[3] Recently, Walser published comprehensive review on protein intake and renal function, which states: "it is clear that protein restriction does not prevent decline in renal function with age, and, in fact, is the major cause of that decline. A better way to prevent the decline would be to increase protein intake. there is no reason to restrict protein intake in healthy individuals in order to protect the kidney."[4]

Dietary protein intake and renal function. Nutrition & Metabolism 2005, 2:25 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-2-25
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

Conclusion

Although excessive protein intake remains a health concern in individuals with pre-existing renal disease, the literature lacks significant research demonstrating a link between protein intake and the initiation or progression of renal disease in healthy individuals. More importantly, evidence suggests that protein-induced changes in renal function are likely a normal adaptative mechanism well within the functional limits of a healthy kidney. Without question, long-term studies are needed to clarify the scant evidence currently available regarding this relationship. At present, there is not sufficient proof to warrant public health directives aimed at restricting dietary protein intake in healthy adults for the purpose of preserving renal function.[

DrG3n3

Thanks for the information. And I only drink a shake after for the cals and to tide me til dinner, not really to follow any window. I've read a bunch of articles against the window on mfp that you guys have posted before

chasityann32

Broscience? Funny, I got my regiment from Jillian Michaels, and Jaime Eason at bodybuilding.com, and i have been very successful following their advice advice and workouts for fatloss and building lean muscle. It had gotten from a size 14 to a size 5, and in some 3's and a 27" waist...

mmapags

The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.

You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.

Alan Aragon

[/quote]

This is interesting info.What do you know about post workout nutrition in regards to fasted workouts. Eg. Working out first thing in the morning on an emtpty stomach? From what I'd read, and I'd love to give the source but I don't remember what it was as it was a while ago I read it, a routine of fasted workout first thing in the morning following by a low carb protien shake after workout and refraining from carbs for a couple of hours afterward maximizes the HGH benefit.The reasoning was including carbs with the protien shake overdrives insulin production. Do you know of any data that supports or dispproves this? This is the routine I follow and I like it and would probably contnue it for that reason alone but would like to know of any data other that what I read sometime ago.

maryjay51

i always have a protein shake after a workout..usually ABB Pure Protein and sometimes I have fresh berries or an apple with that

thepetiterunner

I have actually been told that having some protein within 30 minutes of the workout actually helps with muscle recovery, minimizing soreness, etc. It does seem to help me...

This is exactly what my personal trainer told me. I slam a protein shake within 30 minutes of my workout, usually while I'm walking out of the gym.

Matt_Wild

Be careful if you are using protein shakes for long term. They can cause Liver and Kidney Damage. There are apparently also links to heart disease.

Not so - see here -


"Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?


Source


Department of Physiological Chemistry, Institute of Physical Education and Kinesiotherapy, Free University of Brussels, Belgium.


Abstract


Excess protein and amino acid intake have been recognized as hazardous potential implications for kidney function, leading to progressive impairment of this organ. It has been suggested in the literature, without clear evidence, that high protein intake by athletes has no harmful consequences on renal function. This study investigated body-builders (BB) and other well-trained athletes (OA) with high and medium protein intake, respectively, in order to shed light on this issue. The athletes underwent a 7-day nutrition record analysis as well as blood sample and urine collection to determine the potential renal consequences of a high protein intake. The data revealed that despite higher plasma concentration of uric acid and calcium, Group BB had renal clearances of creatinine, urea, and albumin that were within the normal range. The nitrogen balance for both groups became positive when daily protein intake exceeded 1.26 g.kg but there were no correlations between protein intake and creatinine clearance, albumin excretion rate, and calcium excretion rate. To conclude, it appears that protein intake under 2. 8 g.kg does not impair renal function in well-trained athletes as indicated by the measures of renal function used in this study


PMID: 10722779 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

Matt_Wild

Broscience? Funny, I got my regiment from Jillian Michaels, and Jaime Eason at bodybuilding.com, and i have been very successful following their advice advice and workouts for fatloss and building lean muscle. It had gotten from a size 14 to a size 5, and in some 3's and a 27" waist...

I don't think its broscience. There is a hell of lot of research out there by Layne Norton and Eric Serrano supporting it for people training to build muscle.

I personally follow it too and i'm 265lb and its done me well. Of course, it won't make or break a diet at all but when muscle is what I'm in the game for, every extra pound I can gain is crucial.

Personally I use 100g malto pre work out with 7g BCAA, 30g BCAA as I train an 15 mins post workout 30g protein and 40g malto.