starvation mode

MaximalLife

There is no standard, scientific definition of "starvation mode".
FACT: when your deficit is too high, metabolism is stifled.
Weight loss becomes harder.
More lean body mass is burned away.

Very few would argue credibly against that.

MFP recommends 1 pound per week for a reason. If you're pushing something else, NO THANK YOU!
I choose optimal health over mere weight loss to go from fat to skinny fat.

What's the point?

brookepenni

I starvation mode :glasses:

This post wins!!! :flowerforyou:

flyinghubby

I wear a monitor also, I actually kept it on all day and saw the kcal I burned for the day, glad you mentioned bumping up the calories when you are stuck, I am going to be paying attention to that. Did you increase your water intake also?

MaximalLife

I was wondering about eating those "extra" calories back - I am thinking not.

Think again,
Eat back your exercise calories.
MFP calculates our total daily calorie intake WITHOUT exercise to lose 1 pound or so per week.
And after we log exercises, our daily calorie limit increases.
Why?
Because MFP telling us to eat our exercise calories.
Large deficits are unhealthy, because while you will lose weight, what's the quality of the weight loss?
In many cases you'll lose lean body mass - MUSCLE - which LOWERS your metabolic rate, making weight loss harder.
These crash diets work well for a season -- and sure enough, the pounds melt away. But when you eat so
few calories, you train your metabolism to slow down. Once the diet is over, you have a body that burns calories
more slowly -- and you gain weight.
Be smart.
Exercise well both cardio and resistance, and eat back the calories.
The exercise will RAISE your metabolism and burn more fat at rest.

FitSid

I'm quite skeptical when people say they are eating 1200 calories, exercising like crazy, and not losing weight. It doesn't add up to me. The body cannot become exponentially more efficient at doing the same amount of work just because it goes into some starvation mode. If your body goes into starvation mode, then by definition it is not going to be possible to exercise like crazy because it thinks its starving.

People are either 1) underestimating calories consumed, or 2) overestimating exercise, or more than likely both.

AGREE

MaximalLife

I'm quite skeptical when people say they are eating 1200 calories, exercising like crazy, and not losing weight. It doesn't add up to me. The body cannot become exponentially more efficient at doing the same amount of work just because it goes into some starvation mode. If your body goes into starvation mode, then by definition it is not going to be possible to exercise like crazy because it thinks its starving.

People are either 1) underestimating calories consumed, or 2) overestimating exercise, or more than likely both.

No, how about doing some research?
When calories are restricted, metabolism slows down in response.
That's universally accepted kind of like the moon not being made of cheese.

Can you still lose weight? Of course!
Is it the healthiest way to go about your diet?
No way!
What is the point to this? Just decide what you really want, then go for it.
And if that included some absurd starvation diet, be my guest.

See for yourself; just COUNT ME OUT!
I choose health as is recommended on this site.
1 pound of weight loss per week folks. It's not a race.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

"Starvation mode" is one of the oldest fitness myths. It can be traced back to the Minnesota Starvation Experiment in which subjects were literally fed only enough to survive. As a result, yes, their bodies broke down protein and bone for emergency sustenance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment

Here's another fact that absolutely fascinates me. The lead researcher on the project was Ancel Keys, the very same guy who is responsible for the widespread yet erroneous belief that saturation fat is somehow worse for you that unsaturated fat. This would later become known as "The Lipid Hypothesis," which was quickly demonstrated to be fraudulent.

Sadly, the margarine manufacturers latched onto Keys' baloney research, and used it as a springboard for their business. And that's why people hate saturated fat! Small world right?

Your seriously going to bring up the Starvation Experiment, the same one that resulted in self mutilation, depression and loss of sexual appetite?

^^ This-- the scariest thing about that experiment was what happened to the subjects psychologically.

heybales

I wear a monitor also, I actually kept it on all day and saw the kcal I burned for the day, glad you mentioned bumping up the calories when you are stuck, I am going to be paying attention to that. Did you increase your water intake also?

HRM calorie calculations are ONLY valid in the range of aerobic type exercise, about 90-150 bpm.

Outside that range the calculations are very inaccurate, especially on the low end.

You can forget that value for wearing all day as having any value.

Study is linked to here.
http://www.braydenwm.com/calburn.htm

heybales

I was wondering about eating those "extra" calories back - I am thinking not.

You might want to reread the posts and re-think that!

You got HRM so the calories out EXTRA from exercise you know pretty decently.
So only the calories in part of the equation is to be confirm.

And if unrecommended goal amount, might just be shooting self in foot.

heybales

The additional fun part of lowered metabolism - now your HRM calorie count is off.

Since you whole system is slower, the amount of increase for exercise may go up the same quontity (9 x BMR for instance), but it is not as high a level, because it's based on a lower base footing now.
The HR may stay the same, everything has just slowed down.

May not even notice - unless you had been in the habit of really pushing yourself at some point. Really doing 1 min intervals at full tilt, recovery for only 2 min, ect.
Since the system is working slower, you'll see that effort can't be reached anymore, even though the HR may get to the same level.

But normal cardio levels, probably won't even notice, except gee, this pace used to be 10 bpm less.

The good HRM's do a BMR calculation in there too, much rougher because even the Polar only has age and weight (sometimes height on some models).
And then the calcs for calorie burn are based on adding to the BMR calc.

Which if it lower because of being suppressed, then the real calorie count would be too.

So partly right to say possible overestimating exercise calories - especially now.

Sadly, I'm sure this comment will now be taken to eat back even less calories from exercise, but whatever.

snowchj

"Starvation mode" is one of the oldest fitness myths. It can be traced back to the Minnesota Starvation Experiment in which subjects were literally fed only enough to survive. As a result, yes, their bodies broke down protein and bone for emergency sustenance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment

Here's another fact that absolutely fascinates me. The lead researcher on the project was Ancel Keys, the very same guy who is responsible for the widespread yet erroneous belief that saturation fat is somehow worse for you that unsaturated fat. This would later become known as "The Lipid Hypothesis," which was quickly demonstrated to be fraudulent.

Sadly, the margarine manufacturers latched onto Keys' baloney research, and used it as a springboard for their business. And that's why people hate saturated fat! Small world right?

Your seriously going to bring up the Starvation Experiment, the same one that resulted in self mutilation, depression and loss of sexual appetite?

*You're

And...yes?

We can go with something more recent if that peels your banana. Studies show that your metabolism doesn't start to slow until 60 - 96 hours of fasting. And even then only by 8%. Here's an extremely well-sourced article on the topic...

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

I would also draw your attention to the thousands upon thousands of people who have had great success with intermittent fasting diets. Are they...what...lying?

The idea that your body starts "burning off" muscle after a few hours without eating is nonsense. Unless you are literally starving, your body is going to use up fat stores. That's what they're there for.

I mean I feel like we sort of agree with each other here. If the average MFP user was really in a true starvation mode, wouldn't they too be self-mutilating and acting all depressed and failing to satisfy their husbands/wives/tissue boxes? None of this passes a common sense check.

Quasita

As I've said before, there IS such a thing as starvation mode and it is NOT what everyone on here claims it to be.
Can you be in this mode and still eat? YES
It is a medical condition, diagnosable by a physician, and treated with hormone therapy.
I know this because I was diagnosed at 24.
I wrote an extensive blog about it a couple weeks ago because I was so tired of people calling it a myth. It can't be a myth if it's a diagnosable syndrome. It does have a definition in the medical community, and has diagnosing criteria.
People with eating disorder can suffer the consequences... but the reality of it is, the syndrome doesn't develop over days. It takes weeks, months even, of limited to no eating on a regular basis to produce the symptoms.
Can you be in starvation mode and gain weight? YES
Those of us who were anorexic and then binged will tell you, you can gain a ton of weight in a short period of time if you don't rehabilitate properly.

That being said, unless you are diagnosed by a physician, I would stop throwing around the term. It is insulting to those of us that have to handle this issue every day.

MaximalLife

As I've said before, there IS such a thing as starvation mode and it is NOT what everyone on here claims it to be.
Can you be in this mode and still eat? YES
It is a medical condition, diagnosable by a physician, and treated with hormone therapy.
I know this because I was diagnosed at 24.
I wrote an extensive blog about it a couple weeks ago because I was so tired of people calling it a myth. It can't be a myth if it's a diagnosable syndrome. It does have a definition in the medical community, and has diagnosing criteria.
People with eating disorder can suffer the consequences... but the reality of it is, the syndrome doesn't develop over days. It takes weeks, months even, of limited to no eating on a regular basis to produce the symptoms.
Can you be in starvation mode and gain weight? YES
Those of us who were anorexic and then binged will tell you, you can gain a ton of weight in a short period of time if you don't rehabilitate properly.

That being said, unless you are diagnosed by a physician, I would stop throwing around the term. It is insulting to those of us that have to handle this issue every day.

The term "Starvation Mode" is indeed an absurd notion.
I prefer the nebulous metabolism stifling.

And just answer for yourself.
Which would you rather?
Some are plateauing at 1200 calories per day while I am joyfully eating 3000 + daily and losing weight.
I think life is to be lived, and I have trained my metabolism to burn baby burn!
I may not know the exact science, but my conclusion is that low cal diets just SUCK!

BrendaLee

FACT: when your deficit is too high, metabolism is stifled.
Weight loss becomes harder.
More lean body mass is burned away.

This is what it all boils down to.

Fit_Canuck

"Starvation mode" is one of the oldest fitness myths. It can be traced back to the Minnesota Starvation Experiment in which subjects were literally fed only enough to survive. As a result, yes, their bodies broke down protein and bone for emergency sustenance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment

Here's another fact that absolutely fascinates me. The lead researcher on the project was Ancel Keys, the very same guy who is responsible for the widespread yet erroneous belief that saturation fat is somehow worse for you that unsaturated fat. This would later become known as "The Lipid Hypothesis," which was quickly demonstrated to be fraudulent.

Sadly, the margarine manufacturers latched onto Keys' baloney research, and used it as a springboard for their business. And that's why people hate saturated fat! Small world right?

Your seriously going to bring up the Starvation Experiment, the same one that resulted in self mutilation, depression and loss of sexual appetite?

*You're

And...yes?

We can go with something more recent if that peels your banana. Studies show that your metabolism doesn't start to slow until 60 - 96 hours of fasting. And even then only by 8%. Here's an extremely well-sourced article on the topic...

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

I would also draw your attention to the thousands upon thousands of people who have had great success with intermittent fasting diets. Are they...what...lying?

The idea that your body starts "burning off" muscle after a few hours without eating is nonsense. Unless you are literally starving, your body is going to use up fat stores. That's what they're there for.

I mean I feel like we sort of agree with each other here. If the average MFP user was really in a true starvation mode, wouldn't they too be self-mutilating and acting all depressed and failing to satisfy their husbands/wives/tissue boxes? None of this passes a common sense check.

The fact that you are taking the time to correct my spelling is childish at the very least, enough said. And you can spend all night peeling your bananas if you like Please feel free to correct my spelling and grammar in this post.

grinch031

I'm quite skeptical when people say they are eating 1200 calories, exercising like crazy, and not losing weight. It doesn't add up to me. The body cannot become exponentially more efficient at doing the same amount of work just because it goes into some starvation mode. If your body goes into starvation mode, then by definition it is not going to be possible to exercise like crazy because it thinks its starving.

People are either 1) underestimating calories consumed, or 2) overestimating exercise, or more than likely both.

No, how about doing some research?
When calories are restricted, metabolism slows down in response.
That's universally accepted kind of like the moon not being made of cheese.

Can you still lose weight? Of course!
Is it the healthiest way to go about your diet?
No way!
What is the point to this? Just decide what you really want, then go for it.
And if that included some absurd starvation diet, be my guest.

See for yourself; just COUNT ME OUT!
I choose health as is recommended on this site.
1 pound of weight loss per week folks. It's not a race.

Why don't you explain to me why someone who has an abundance of fat will burn muscle?

Fit_Canuck

I'm quite skeptical when people say they are eating 1200 calories, exercising like crazy, and not losing weight. It doesn't add up to me. The body cannot become exponentially more efficient at doing the same amount of work just because it goes into some starvation mode. If your body goes into starvation mode, then by definition it is not going to be possible to exercise like crazy because it thinks its starving.

People are either 1) underestimating calories consumed, or 2) overestimating exercise, or more than likely both.

No, how about doing some research?
When calories are restricted, metabolism slows down in response.
That's universally accepted kind of like the moon not being made of cheese.

Can you still lose weight? Of course!
Is it the healthiest way to go about your diet?
No way!
What is the point to this? Just decide what you really want, then go for it.
And if that included some absurd starvation diet, be my guest.

See for yourself; just COUNT ME OUT!
I choose health as is recommended on this site.
1 pound of weight loss per week folks. It's not a race.

Why don't you explain to me why someone who has an abundance of fat will burn muscle?

Because the human body is programmed to hold on to fat as a long term means of storing energy.

Also I sense this is the path this whole topic is taking, yet again.

grinch031

I'm quite skeptical when people say they are eating 1200 calories, exercising like crazy, and not losing weight. It doesn't add up to me. The body cannot become exponentially more efficient at doing the same amount of work just because it goes into some starvation mode. If your body goes into starvation mode, then by definition it is not going to be possible to exercise like crazy because it thinks its starving.

People are either 1) underestimating calories consumed, or 2) overestimating exercise, or more than likely both.

No, how about doing some research?
When calories are restricted, metabolism slows down in response.
That's universally accepted kind of like the moon not being made of cheese.

Can you still lose weight? Of course!
Is it the healthiest way to go about your diet?
No way!
What is the point to this? Just decide what you really want, then go for it.
And if that included some absurd starvation diet, be my guest.

See for yourself; just COUNT ME OUT!
I choose health as is recommended on this site.
1 pound of weight loss per week folks. It's not a race.

Why don't you explain to me why someone who has an abundance of fat will burn muscle?

Because the human body is programmed to hold on to fat as a long term means of storing energy.

Also I sense this is the path this whole topic is taking, yet again.

If someone uses their muscle, then their body is not going to willingly give it up. The body will always give up fat over muscle.

Fit_Canuck

I'm quite skeptical when people say they are eating 1200 calories, exercising like crazy, and not losing weight. It doesn't add up to me. The body cannot become exponentially more efficient at doing the same amount of work just because it goes into some starvation mode. If your body goes into starvation mode, then by definition it is not going to be possible to exercise like crazy because it thinks its starving.

People are either 1) underestimating calories consumed, or 2) overestimating exercise, or more than likely both.

No, how about doing some research?
When calories are restricted, metabolism slows down in response.
That's universally accepted kind of like the moon not being made of cheese.

Can you still lose weight? Of course!
Is it the healthiest way to go about your diet?
No way!
What is the point to this? Just decide what you really want, then go for it.
And if that included some absurd starvation diet, be my guest.

See for yourself; just COUNT ME OUT!
I choose health as is recommended on this site.
1 pound of weight loss per week folks. It's not a race.

Why don't you explain to me why someone who has an abundance of fat will burn muscle?

Because the human body is programmed to hold on to fat as a long term means of storing energy.

Also I sense this is the path this whole topic is taking, yet again.

If someone uses their muscle, then their body is not going to willingly give it up. The body will always give up fat over muscle.

Well this statement flies in the face of any medical professional I have ever talked to about the subject. Granted my sources may be wrong but I tend to believe them. Can you please provide sources for this? I would honestly like to read it and bring it up at my next appointment in 2 days.

Important to note I am still talking about the " starvation mode" stage. Not awesome diet and good exercise time.

amoffatt

I was wondering about eating those "extra" calories back - I am thinking not.

Think again,
Eat back your exercise calories.
MFP calculates our total daily calorie intake WITHOUT exercise to lose 1 pound or so per week.
And after we log exercises, our daily calorie limit increases.
Why?
Because MFP telling us to eat our exercise calories.
Large deficits are unhealthy, because while you will lose weight, what's the quality of the weight loss?
In many cases you'll lose lean body mass - MUSCLE - which LOWERS your metabolic rate, making weight loss harder.
These crash diets work well for a season -- and sure enough, the pounds melt away. But when you eat so
few calories, you train your metabolism to slow down. Once the diet is over, you have a body that burns calories
more slowly -- and you gain weight.
Be smart.
Exercise well both cardio and resistance, and eat back the calories.
The exercise will RAISE your metabolism and burn more fat at rest.

Great information as well, thank you. I probably dont estimate my calories correctly everyday, my excercise might be off, even my HRM can be off some days (it told me one day I only burned 80 calories for JM 30 DS when the day before was 213). So, I personally try to eat at least half and maybe leave about 1/4 of my exercise calories, just to make myself feel better about eating them back but not too much.