Not enough carbs?

slo02ee

all week I've been focusing on protien and trying to limit carbs but yesterday after my egg and cheese breakfast i felt like crap all day. achy, tired etc. So today i had half a glass of chocolate milk with my eggs and cheese and feel tons better, even on 4.5 hrs sleep thanks to a sick coughing wife. Could my lethergy yesterday have come from a lack of carbs in the am???

I'm going to get attacked for this but just sharing my personal experience. When I limit carbs, I feel like crap for the first 4-5 days. It's like going through withdrawal. You might experience tiredness, headaches, crabbiness, etc, very similar to any addict in withdrawal. After you make it through this initial period, you will most likely feel loads better. When I cheat and eat something very carby, I feel like I ran into a brick wall and the cycle repeats. This is the best motivation to not cheat on sugary items.

This site is very anti low carb, but this is what I have found to be true for me.

Acg67

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

grinch031

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

So are you saying performance will decrease in most cases? What about train low, race high? What about the targeted ketogenic diet where carbs are eaten around exercise? Are these all detrimental to performance?

Lyle McDonald doesn't think its all just a fairy tale. He's not saying the performance is better, but the research really needs to be sorted out.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/cyclical-ketogenic-diets-and-endurance-performance-qa.html

neanderthin

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

So are you saying performance will decrease in most cases? What about train low, race high? What about the targeted ketogenic diet where carbs are eaten around exercise? Are these all detrimental to performance?

Lyle McDonald doesn't think its all just a fairy tale. He's not saying the performance is better, but the research really needs to be sorted out.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/cyclical-ketogenic-diets-and-endurance-performance-qa.html

I especially like the part where Lyle mentions that the ultimate endurance athletes, kenyan runners, consume 70% carbs.

grinch031

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

So are you saying performance will decrease in most cases? What about train low, race high? What about the targeted ketogenic diet where carbs are eaten around exercise? Are these all detrimental to performance?

Lyle McDonald doesn't think its all just a fairy tale. He's not saying the performance is better, but the research really needs to be sorted out.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/cyclical-ketogenic-diets-and-endurance-performance-qa.html

I especially like the part where Lyle mentions that the ultimate endurance athletes, kenyan runners, consume 70% carbs.

Also he points out since they run 3 times a day, they likely spend time running in a glycogen-depleted state. So they aren't carb-loaded at all times like the traditional healthy diet would have us.

Acg67

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

So are you saying performance will decrease in most cases? What about train low, race high? What about the targeted ketogenic diet where carbs are eaten around exercise? Are these all detrimental to performance?

Lyle McDonald doesn't think its all just a fairy tale. He's not saying the performance is better, but the research really needs to be sorted out.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/cyclical-ketogenic-diets-and-endurance-performance-qa.html

I'm glad you read that and understood it.

neanderthin

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

So are you saying performance will decrease in most cases? What about train low, race high? What about the targeted ketogenic diet where carbs are eaten around exercise? Are these all detrimental to performance?

Lyle McDonald doesn't think its all just a fairy tale. He's not saying the performance is better, but the research really needs to be sorted out.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/cyclical-ketogenic-diets-and-endurance-performance-qa.html

I especially like the part where Lyle mentions that the ultimate endurance athletes, kenyan runners, consume 70% carbs.

Also he points out since they run 3 times a day, they likely spend time running in a glycogen-depleted state. So they aren't carb-loaded at all times like the traditional healthy diet would have us.

Most, if not all endurance athletes will be running in a glycogen depleted state some of the time if they train 3 times a day, probably not on race day though. I would imagine they feed in a way that gives them the best advantage to be the best in the world, and it seems there eating quite a few carbs on a daily basis.

jennifershoo

makes me kind of worried that i might be pre-diabetic...

Go to the doctor ASAP! You shouldn't start a diet (or I prefer saying a lifestyle change) without having blood tests first, especially since you have over 100lbs to lose.

grinch031

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

So are you saying performance will decrease in most cases? What about train low, race high? What about the targeted ketogenic diet where carbs are eaten around exercise? Are these all detrimental to performance?

Lyle McDonald doesn't think its all just a fairy tale. He's not saying the performance is better, but the research really needs to be sorted out.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/cyclical-ketogenic-diets-and-endurance-performance-qa.html

I'm glad you read that and understood it.

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

grinch031

The idea that an endurance athlete can go from being dependent on primarily glucose, to burning mostly fat at similar intensities isn't a fairy tale. Otherwise there wouldn't be low-carbing marathoners out there like myself.

But it's effects on the same or better performance is. A lot of fat adaptation believers will bring up the Phinney Obese subject study and cyclist studies, so go read those and keep an eye out on the results and the huge confounders

So are you saying performance will decrease in most cases? What about train low, race high? What about the targeted ketogenic diet where carbs are eaten around exercise? Are these all detrimental to performance?

Lyle McDonald doesn't think its all just a fairy tale. He's not saying the performance is better, but the research really needs to be sorted out.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/cyclical-ketogenic-diets-and-endurance-performance-qa.html

I especially like the part where Lyle mentions that the ultimate endurance athletes, kenyan runners, consume 70% carbs.

Also he points out since they run 3 times a day, they likely spend time running in a glycogen-depleted state. So they aren't carb-loaded at all times like the traditional healthy diet would have us.

Most, if not all endurance athletes will be running in a glycogen depleted state some of the time if they train 3 times a day, probably not on race day though. I would imagine they feed in a way that gives them the best advantage to be the best in the world, and it seems there eating quite a few carbs on a daily basis.

I plan to carb-load on race day even though most days I'm running low-carb. Instead of being dependent on the carb-load (and falling apart without it), the carb-load is actually going to give me a performance boost.

jennifershoo

Low carbs doesn't mean to cut all kinds of carbs. It means, cut out the processed food, the refined carbs like flour and white bread, but eat your veggies!!!!!!

Acg67

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

grinch031

Low carbs doesn't mean to cut all kinds of carbs. It means, cut out the processed food, the refined carbs like flour and white bread, but eat your veggies!!!!!!

Good point. It is good to sometimes remind everybody that low carb isn't no carb. I feel like that message is forgotten at times.

grinch031

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

Soapstone

all week I've been focusing on protien and trying to limit carbs but yesterday after my egg and cheese breakfast i felt like crap all day. achy, tired etc. So today i had half a glass of chocolate milk with my eggs and cheese and feel tons better, even on 4.5 hrs sleep thanks to a sick coughing wife. Could my lethergy yesterday have come from a lack of carbs in the am???

Have you considered that it may have nothing to do with carbs and the fact that your wife is sick? You may be coming down with something..

jennifershoo

Low carbs doesn't mean to cut all kinds of carbs. It means, cut out the processed food, the refined carbs like flour and white bread, but eat your veggies!!!!!!

Good point. It is good to sometimes remind everybody that low carb isn't no carb. I feel like that message is forgotten at times.

Thank you grinch! When people talk about carbs, it seems they often put all carbs in the same boat like if a cupcake is the same as a broccoli.

Acg67

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

AntWrig

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

How does fat restore glycogen levels? ALL low carb plans require a carb load or refeed at some point.

grinch031

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

I'm trying to keep pretty low carb, so if I eat them at a random time, they'll be depleted when they are most beneficial to me. I really don't know enough to make that judgement. I'm trying this as an experiment because I was frustrated with my previous approach to improving my marathon time and maintaining my weight via a very high carb diet.

AntWrig

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

I'm trying to keep pretty low carb, so if I eat them at a random time, they'll be depleted when they are most beneficial to me. I really don't know enough to make that judgement. I'm trying this as an experiment because I was frustrated with my previous approach to improving my marathon time and maintaining my weight via a very high carb diet.

There is nothing wrong with experimentation. I am going to do something similar. Check out the reading by Lyle McDonald. You may find his work interesting.

Acg67

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

I'm trying to keep pretty low carb, so if I eat them at a random time, they'll be depleted when they are most beneficial to me. I really don't know enough to make that judgement. I'm trying this as an experiment because I was frustrated with my previous approach to improving my marathon time and maintaining my weight via a very high carb diet.

"Fat adaptation" for athletic performance: the nail in the coffin?
http://jap.physiology.org/content/100/1/7.full

grinch031

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

I'm trying to keep pretty low carb, so if I eat them at a random time, they'll be depleted when they are most beneficial to me. I really don't know enough to make that judgement. I'm trying this as an experiment because I was frustrated with my previous approach to improving my marathon time and maintaining my weight via a very high carb diet.

There is nothing wrong with experimentation. I am going to do something similar. Check out the reading by Lyle McDonald. You may find his work interesting.

Yeah I know, I posted a link to one of his articles. I also read some of Stephen Phinney's work a while ago as well.

neanderthin

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

I'm trying to keep pretty low carb, so if I eat them at a random time, they'll be depleted when they are most beneficial to me. I really don't know enough to make that judgement. I'm trying this as an experiment because I was frustrated with my previous approach to improving my marathon time and maintaining my weight via a very high carb diet.

Why not try something down the middle, why people think they need to go extreme is confounding. My carb consumption is around 200g's if i'm not going nuts exercising, but when I play hockey twice a week or going to the gym i'm doubling that on those days. i consider mysef a low carber, simply because it is the smallest nutrient i consume most days and the macro# would be considered lower carb. Very low doesn't make much sense to me, but it might if I was a couch potato.

grinch031

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

I'm trying to keep pretty low carb, so if I eat them at a random time, they'll be depleted when they are most beneficial to me. I really don't know enough to make that judgement. I'm trying this as an experiment because I was frustrated with my previous approach to improving my marathon time and maintaining my weight via a very high carb diet.

Why not try something down the middle, why people think they need to go extreme is confounding. My carb consumption is around 200g's if i'm not going nuts exercising, but when I play hockey twice a week or going to the gym i'm doubling that on those days. i consider mysef a low carber, simply because it is the smallest nutrient i consume most days and the macro# would be considered lower carb. Very low doesn't make much sense to me, but it might if I was a couch potato.

Because I can't stop eating. Doesn't matter if its because of insulin or simply the satiating effect of protein, what I do know is what I'm doing right now has so far worked pretty well for me both in the weight room, running, and with energy levels in general.

grinch031

None of this is new to me. I've actually been doing "train low, race high" for the past 6 weeks. My whole opinion on carbs is that they are most effective when planned around exercise. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that everyone needs 50% or more of their diet to be in the form of carbs. Even endurance athletes who aren't Kenyan of course.

Why would you need carbs around a workout if your body can run just fine on fat?

Because it doesn't run on 100% fat. It still needs glucose, and it will come from protein if not available in glycogen. Plus carbs aid in the recovery process.

So are you saying your performance and/or recovery would suffer if you didn't target crabs around your workout?

I'm trying to keep pretty low carb, so if I eat them at a random time, they'll be depleted when they are most beneficial to me. I really don't know enough to make that judgement. I'm trying this as an experiment because I was frustrated with my previous approach to improving my marathon time and maintaining my weight via a very high carb diet.

"Fat adaptation" for athletic performance: the nail in the coffin?
http://jap.physiology.org/content/100/1/7.full

Yeah I saw that already. Don't know how definitive this is and whether it applies to me since they were talking about "well-trained cyclists". My performance was less than optimal already even when I was a sugar-burner.