FRUSTRATED!!! I'm working my *ss off to lose weight and noth

heybales

Also, I have read before that if you're doing over an hour of cardio in one session your body starts to burn your muscle. Muscle Loss = Metabolism drop and NO ONE wants that.

Myth as far as that way of putting it.

Several things required for that to be the case of possibly happening.

IF you are eating at a big deficit and/or not getting enough carbs.
IF you are exercising for long aerobic periods several days in a row.
IF you are exercising at a decent intensity (not walking).

Avg person has enough glucose stores for couple hours of aerobic exercise. If you do that couple hours too fast, you can hit the termed "wall" that recreational marathoners hit. Your typical MFP'er will be no where near that level. Fast recreational runners training at a super high level could hit it sooner.

That wall is when glucose stores run low, and to keep burning the fat then, and because glucose is needed for the brain, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose.

So in theory you could accomplish that by doing several days in a row and not getting enough carbs because of not eating enough calories - but unlikely.

c2me12ad6

Eat something small every four hours while your awake...that has helped me sooo much i was doing the same thing working out and not seeing anything till i started portion control and eating every four hours...eating 1200-1400 calories

CnocNaCu

bump for reading later

souji5

Yes you should. Accurate estimates of them.
Because your net calorie goal ALREADY has that 1.5lb /wk deficit calculated from your total maintenance calorie estimate.
No exercise, that is the hoped for weight loss.

Good for you for selecting a realistic goal weight loss, or hopefully it is. But if that whole time you have been exercising, and your BMR was around 1500, then you really only gave your body 1000 calories to work with.
So guess what it will do. Slow down to compensate.

You gave it some gifts over the holiday, and because of the state it has been in, held on to them.

1200 is safety guideline for minimum that should be taken in for the body to feed itself, forget supplying any energy for your actual daily activities.

Use the MFP tools calculator for your estimated healthy BMR figure. If you have been eating under that, and exercise has been robbing those calories too, for a long time, that is NOT what your BMR really is at. it is much lower.

Now do the math, how many calories of free burn are you losing each and every day comparing a healthy BMR to what level you must be putting it at (which is goal eaten minus exercise)?
200-500 calories? Each day.

If BMR is not understood, time to understand. If you are willing to spend time on the forums for the sake of your diet which is probably for the sake of your body, spend some time researching BMR for the sake of your body too, and ultimately your diet and weight loss.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/477703-why-bmr-should-be-known-as-an-important-figure

Thanks so much for your response. I've been exercising for the last couple of weeks only, and I haven't seen much weight loss the last month, I'd say.

My current BMR is 1628 calories.
MFP tells me to eat 1610 calories (for 1.5 lbs loss/week).
If I workout burning 400 calories a day, then I should be eating 2000 calories?!

I just want to make sure because that seems like a huge number! I understand what you're saying though: no matter what, I have to give my body those 1600 calories it needs. I guess the last few months I've gotten so used to holding back, I'm finding it difficult to eat more! (who woulda thought THAT would be a problem after actually WANTING to eat more in the beginning of my using MFP?!) I'm full really easy now and I'm afraid I'll start eating more junk as a result (ice cream, for example).

AntWrig

Also, I have read before that if you're doing over an hour of cardio in one session your body starts to burn your muscle. Muscle Loss = Metabolism drop and NO ONE wants that.

Myth as far as that way of putting it.

Several things required for that to be the case of possibly happening.

IF you are eating at a big deficit and/or not getting enough carbs.
IF you are exercising for long aerobic periods several days in a row.
IF you are exercising at a decent intensity (not walking).

Avg person has enough glucose stores for couple hours of aerobic exercise. If you do that couple hours too fast, you can hit the termed "wall" that recreational marathoners hit. Your typical MFP'er will be no where near that level. Fast recreational runners training at a super high level could hit it sooner.

That wall is when glucose stores run low, and to keep burning the fat then, and because glucose is needed for the brain, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose.

So in theory you could accomplish that by doing several days in a row and not getting enough carbs because of not eating enough calories - but unlikely.

You missed the point. Long duration aerobic activities, produce high levels of cortisol. As we all know cortisol leads to fat gain.

CnocNaCu

When long duration aerobics make the body to produce cortisol which makes one gain fat...why are all the runners so thin? Only skin and bones? And what is "long duration aerobics"? 1 hour a day, 3 hours/day?
I'm working out every day for 45 mins/ circuit training, very intense. Would that make me gain weight?
At least that would explain why I'm not losing any more :-)

heybales

Also, I have read before that if you're doing over an hour of cardio in one session your body starts to burn your muscle. Muscle Loss = Metabolism drop and NO ONE wants that.

Myth as far as that way of putting it.

Several things required for that to be the case of possibly happening.

IF you are eating at a big deficit and/or not getting enough carbs.
IF you are exercising for long aerobic periods several days in a row.
IF you are exercising at a decent intensity (not walking).

Avg person has enough glucose stores for couple hours of aerobic exercise. If you do that couple hours too fast, you can hit the termed "wall" that recreational marathoners hit. Your typical MFP'er will be no where near that level. Fast recreational runners training at a super high level could hit it sooner.

That wall is when glucose stores run low, and to keep burning the fat then, and because glucose is needed for the brain, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose.

So in theory you could accomplish that by doing several days in a row and not getting enough carbs because of not eating enough calories - but unlikely.

You missed the point. Long duration aerobic activities, produce high levels of cortisol. As we all know cortisol leads to fat gain.

Well, as you can read above, that was not their point. Their point is an often repeated myth.
Work out too long and you start burning muscle. Just pointing out it takes a bit of work to cause that to happen.

Actually, the other misunderstanding repeated sometimes is that fat burning stops and muscle burns starts. That one is so wrong.

The cortisol, especially the increase during recovery when the exercise is finally done, is the main increase time, and storing more fat still has no effect on muscle loss because of the exercise.
And even then, depends on how stressful that extended workout is to your system, as to the increase and duration. Since it starts increasing above normal when your exercise level goes above 60% of VO2max, you may not workout much above that at all, not for that long.

heybales

Thanks so much for your response. I've been exercising for the last couple of weeks only, and I haven't seen much weight loss the last month, I'd say.

My current BMR is 1628 calories.
MFP tells me to eat 1610 calories (for 1.5 lbs loss/week).
If I workout burning 400 calories a day, then I should be eating 2000 calories?!

I just want to make sure because that seems like a huge number! I understand what you're saying though: no matter what, I have to give my body those 1600 calories it needs. I guess the last few months I've gotten so used to holding back, I'm finding it difficult to eat more! (who woulda thought THAT would be a problem after actually WANTING to eat more in the beginning of my using MFP?!) I'm full really easy now and I'm afraid I'll start eating more junk as a result (ice cream, for example).

That is correct, you feed the workout, your muscles.
If that does seem like a big jump for one day, you might go to that link I gave above, and there is a whole method to simplify the goal calories, remove the big needs to eat big a few days, and keep your BMR burning fully.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/3088-eating-for-future-you

Oh, the lack of hunger on the lesser food, means your metabolism has slowed then. especially if during these current workouts depriving even more, have not increased hunger much.

jamiem1102

Ok so I have heard the same thing about if you don't eat more than 1200 calories, you will gain weight. It is true that if your body is not getting enough nutrients it will start to become unhealthy and 'hold on' to weight. Is 1200 calories the magic number for everyone? who knows (or at least I don't) ! But..... I know for sure that if you are eating less bad food, more healthy food, and exercising you WILL see results.

The first time I lost a lot of weight I lost about 40 pounds which put me right at my goal weight. I only lost about 3 of it in the first month. I was so frustrated and then just decided to keep going if for no other reason than to be healthy. After that the weight started to fall off about 5 pounds or more every couple of weeks. Sometimes it just takes time to see results. I promise if you stick to it you will see results.

Frustration only makes things worse, so I know it's hard but try to relax. For me it helped to focus on getting stronger and healthier and then lighter and thinner followed! Hope this helps stick with it!

I'm having the same issue right now that the person I quoted was having in the first month. This literally stopped me from giving up. Thanks.

AntWrig

Also, I have read before that if you're doing over an hour of cardio in one session your body starts to burn your muscle. Muscle Loss = Metabolism drop and NO ONE wants that.

Myth as far as that way of putting it.

Several things required for that to be the case of possibly happening.

IF you are eating at a big deficit and/or not getting enough carbs.
IF you are exercising for long aerobic periods several days in a row.
IF you are exercising at a decent intensity (not walking).

Avg person has enough glucose stores for couple hours of aerobic exercise. If you do that couple hours too fast, you can hit the termed "wall" that recreational marathoners hit. Your typical MFP'er will be no where near that level. Fast recreational runners training at a super high level could hit it sooner.

That wall is when glucose stores run low, and to keep burning the fat then, and because glucose is needed for the brain, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose.

So in theory you could accomplish that by doing several days in a row and not getting enough carbs because of not eating enough calories - but unlikely.

You missed the point. Long duration aerobic activities, produce high levels of cortisol. As we all know cortisol leads to fat gain.

Well, as you can read above, that was not their point. Their point is an often repeated myth.
Work out too long and you start burning muscle. Just pointing out it takes a bit of work to cause that to happen.

Actually, the other misunderstanding repeated sometimes is that fat burning stops and muscle burns starts. That one is so wrong.

The cortisol, especially the increase during recovery when the exercise is finally done, is the main increase time, and storing more fat still has no effect on muscle loss because of the exercise.
And even then, depends on how stressful that extended workout is to your system, as to the increase and duration. Since it starts increasing above normal when your exercise level goes above 60% of VO2max, you may not workout much above that at all, not for that long.

It would take a very long time for someone to deplete their glycogen stores. Most people believe they have depleted their muscles, when in reality they haven't.

So, I guess we're in agreement.

fang19423

Hi, I have had a similiar experience - Summary of weeks results – Lost 1 lb, lost 9.85" - Summary of results since my fitness challenge began on 01FEB12 - Gained 0.8lbs, lost 13.95 " I can't help feeling a disappointed with my weight loss but inch loss has to mean something right? We just need to keep plugging away, I guess

heybales

It would take a very long time for someone to deplete their glycogen stores. Most people believe they have depleted their muscles, when in reality they haven't.

It's interesting, if you look at the all-to common diet level of many on here, and their exercise level, and so many not eating their calories back, you can reach it pretty quickly.
Not in one session by itself, but after following several other days of sessions, you could easily.

This Topic, post above this one, goes into some math for what I thought might be commen level.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/488862-ate-all-my-cardio-calories-and-gained-2lbs?page=2#posts-6782161

LovelyLibra79

I had the same problem my friend...i was not eating my exercise calories while burning more than 500 cals a session, i barely lost a pound those 2 weeks, now I stay within 1500-1600 and lose weight without any problems. Just increase your intake on your exercise days and give it time..you will see results.

jsong11

I think earlier in the thread someone recommended this link:
http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/

It was a really long read, but I actually learned a lot from it and have tried to apply it. I thought I was plateauing, but after I wrote up my post I lost another 3 lbs just continuing to eat about 1200 cals/day more or less and exercising regularly. On days that I exercise, I know I have some leeway to eat some more. Some days my net total is above 1200 and some days its less. At the end of the week, it about averages out to 1200/day.

I tried to reverse calculate my BMR by seeing how much weight i lost. Each pound = 3500 calorie deficit.
Calories Consumed For the Week + (3500 * lbs lost) = Calories Expended/Week.
That calculated value was much higher than some of the formulas I've seen posted. I don't take any of these calculations as the final say considering how inaccurate weight measurements might be and all, and have been using them as a guideline.

Every body is different. And what was most helpful was experimenting a little bit and seeing how your body responds. If 1200cal/day puts your body into starvation mode after a few weeks of observation, then maybe you should try increasing your intake and see how your body responds. As you lose weight, your body changes and its response to how you eat and exercise also changes. The whole process is dynamic so it seems that every so often, you may need to take some time to let your body and your plan re-adjust a bit.

Good luck everyone!

The article was definitely a long read, but really helpful for me.

heybales

I think earlier in the thread someone recommended this link:
http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/

It was a really long read, but I actually learned a lot from it and have tried to apply it. I thought I was plateauing, but after I wrote up my post I lost another 3 lbs just continuing to eat about 1200 cals/day more or less and exercising regularly. On days that I exercise, I know I have some leeway to eat some more. Some days my net total is above 1200 and some days its less. At the end of the week, it about averages out to 1200/day.

I tried to reverse calculate my BMR by seeing how much weight i lost. Each pound = 3500 calorie deficit.
Calories Consumed For the Week + (3500 * lbs lost) = Calories Expended/Week.
That calculated value was much higher than some of the formulas I've seen posted. I don't take any of these calculations as the final say considering how inaccurate weight measurements might be and all, and have been using them as a guideline.

Every body is different. And what was most helpful was experimenting a little bit and seeing how your body responds. If 1200cal/day puts your body into starvation mode after a few weeks of observation, then maybe you should try increasing your intake and see how your body responds. As you lose weight, your body changes and its response to how you eat and exercise also changes. The whole process is dynamic so it seems that every so often, you may need to take some time to let your body and your plan re-adjust a bit.

Just remember for the math, only 600 calories worth of muscle must be burned to lose a pound of weight.
in a big calorie deficit state with good workouts, it is a whole lot easier to lose a pound of muscle.
It may not be the muscle you actually use for your workouts, but it will be muscle.

If you workout 6 days a week, by day 5 you could easily be on limited glucose stores, which means the workout that day and the next must breakdown muscle for amino acid conversion to glucose to feed the brain and burn the fat.

Your BMR needs to supply about 400-450 calories of carbs to your brain for daily energy needs, that's about what is stored in the liver, and after multiple days the 2000 calorie store in the muscles is easily depleted. Besides which on the previous workout days, that glucose cannot be put into the bloodstream for use for the brain, only the liver glucose.

Yes, people that are working out can burn muscle.
Tour de France riders that do cross-country riding during the winter get more muscle upstairs handling the bike, but burn it off as they switch to road training and 4-6 hr training rides. They can gain and lose 10 lbs commonly, not associated with "winter weight" we mortals gain. And you can see in their pictures the difference in upper body muscle, or lack thereof during the road racing.
Same with sprinters that move to long distance training and events for whatever reason.

Coco_Puff

I've been at this again, after slacking off for 3 months, hard and heavy for 2 weeks. Working out and eating healthy and haven't seen much of a weight loss, but I am seeing my clothes fitting better. I know it's hard to ignore the scale, but it just doesn't tell the whole story. Your progress can be measured in many ways. Look for all the other great things that are happening. People will notice your hard work and never see your scale, so what does it matter? Just make sure you eat enough.

CnocNaCu

I think earlier in the thread someone recommended this link:
http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/

It was a really long read, but I actually learned a lot from it and have tried to apply it. I thought I was plateauing, but after I wrote up my post I lost another 3 lbs just continuing to eat about 1200 cals/day more or less and exercising regularly. On days that I exercise, I know I have some leeway to eat some more. Some days my net total is above 1200 and some days its less. At the end of the week, it about averages out to 1200/day.

I tried to reverse calculate my BMR by seeing how much weight i lost. Each pound = 3500 calorie deficit.
Calories Consumed For the Week + (3500 * lbs lost) = Calories Expended/Week.
That calculated value was much higher than some of the formulas I've seen posted. I don't take any of these calculations as the final say considering how inaccurate weight measurements might be and all, and have been using them as a guideline.

Every body is different. And what was most helpful was experimenting a little bit and seeing how your body responds. If 1200cal/day puts your body into starvation mode after a few weeks of observation, then maybe you should try increasing your intake and see how your body responds. As you lose weight, your body changes and its response to how you eat and exercise also changes. The whole process is dynamic so it seems that every so often, you may need to take some time to let your body and your plan re-adjust a bit.

Just remember for the math, only 600 calories worth of muscle must be burned to lose a pound of weight.
in a big calorie deficit state with good workouts, it is a whole lot easier to lose a pound of muscle.
It may not be the muscle you actually use for your workouts, but it will be muscle.

If you workout 6 days a week, by day 5 you could easily be on limited glucose stores, which means the workout that day and the next must breakdown muscle for amino acid conversion to glucose to feed the brain and burn the fat.

Your BMR needs to supply about 400-450 calories of carbs to your brain for daily energy needs, that's about what is stored in the liver, and after multiple days the 2000 calorie store in the muscles is easily depleted. Besides which on the previous workout days, that glucose cannot be put into the bloodstream for use for the brain, only the liver glucose.

Yes, people that are working out can burn muscle.
Tour de France riders that do cross-country riding during the winter get more muscle upstairs handling the bike, but burn it off as they switch to road training and 4-6 hr training rides. They can gain and lose 10 lbs commonly, not associated with "winter weight" we mortals gain. And you can see in their pictures the difference in upper body muscle, or lack thereof during the road racing.
Same with sprinters that move to long distance training and events for whatever reason.

I don't want to question the truth of the info you've given but want to make aware of the fact that:
-the calorie store in our muscles and liver is not "stocked up" only once a week. So "after multiple days the 2000 calorie store...is easily depleted" is not correct
-most of us here on MFP are NOT athletes although we like to believe that. Our stores are not so easily depleted compared with athletes.
- we tend to underestimate our calorie intake and overestimate our calorie expenditure. Look at the cals burnt per min according to MFP for certain exercises.
If I used those figures I'd easily burn 800 a day while in fact it is only 420 (HRM).
We are scaremongering so many on here with the "starvation mode", "empty stores", muscle loss etc. Not that this cannot happen, but not to somebody weighing 200 pounds , working out 30 mins/day, burning 450 cals and eating properly.
I see the problem in the high sodium intake, low protein, high carbs and processed rubbish that is consumed. Lots of sugar and often junk food.
Quickly up on the elliptical for 45 mins so that we have more cals to eat (oh yeah, I've burnt 1000 cals in those 45 mins and can have a pizza:noway: ) Some of my MFP pals are eating that way and are discussing whether their weight loss is caused by a plateau or the starvation mode:noway: :noway: :noway:

elsinora

I wish I had a nickle every time someone here made me want to bang my head against a wall.

This was stolen from another thread but sums up my feelings exactly!

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Star_517bd8_1148702.gif

heybales

I don't want to question the truth of the info you've given but want to make aware of the fact that:
-the calorie store in our muscles and liver is not "stocked up" only once a week. So "after multiple days the 2000 calorie store...is easily depleted" is not correct
-most of us here on MFP are NOT athletes although we like to believe that. Our stores are not so easily depleted compared with athletes.
- we tend to underestimate our calorie intake and overestimate our calorie expenditure. Look at the cals burnt per min according to MFP for certain exercises.
If I used those figures I'd easily burn 800 a day while in fact it is only 420 (HRM).
We are scaremongering so many on here with the "starvation mode", "empty stores", muscle loss etc. Not that this cannot happen, but not to somebody weighing 200 pounds , working out 30 mins/day, burning 450 cals and eating properly.
I see the problem in the high sodium intake, low protein, high carbs and processed rubbish that is consumed. Lots of sugar and often junk food.
Quickly up on the elliptical for 45 mins so that we have more cals to eat (oh yeah, I've burnt 1000 cals in those 45 mins and can have a pizza:noway: ) Some of my MFP pals are eating that way and are discussing whether their weight loss is caused by a plateau or the starvation mode:noway: :noway: :noway:

Do the math for the all too familiar eating 1200 a day and not feeding the workout.
Say 60% of the food is carbs. That is only 720 carbs a day.
And use the all too familiar 1 hr a day for 5 or 6 days for a workout.
Make it a medium intensity, so 70% carbs burned during the workout, about 700 calories.
Take all the other hours in the day and pretend just the BMR level of usage, so 30% carbs used. BMR is 1000 because of underfeeding.

You do that math, and you'll see that you cannot actually top it off day after day when other activity at 50% carb usage occurs.

Hence the biggest reason for feeding the workout.

So after multiple days, yes, you can deplete your stores, and by the 5th or 6th workout, be tearing muscle down.

So not only have you lost weight all week because of glucose and water stores coming down, on a couple days you actually break down a decent amount of muscle. And now your recovery day adds a couple pounds. Or perhaps the body needs the precious fuel for other things missed lately, and it's not topped off again.

Not starvation mode, no. But a very real state that does happen.

CnocNaCu

I don't want to question the truth of the info you've given but want to make aware of the fact that:
-the calorie store in our muscles and liver is not "stocked up" only once a week. So "after multiple days the 2000 calorie store...is easily depleted" is not correct
-most of us here on MFP are NOT athletes although we like to believe that. Our stores are not so easily depleted compared with athletes.
- we tend to underestimate our calorie intake and overestimate our calorie expenditure. Look at the cals burnt per min according to MFP for certain exercises.
If I used those figures I'd easily burn 800 a day while in fact it is only 420 (HRM).
We are scaremongering so many on here with the "starvation mode", "empty stores", muscle loss etc. Not that this cannot happen, but not to somebody weighing 200 pounds , working out 30 mins/day, burning 450 cals and eating properly.
I see the problem in the high sodium intake, low protein, high carbs and processed rubbish that is consumed. Lots of sugar and often junk food.
Quickly up on the elliptical for 45 mins so that we have more cals to eat (oh yeah, I've burnt 1000 cals in those 45 mins and can have a pizza:noway: ) Some of my MFP pals are eating that way and are discussing whether their weight loss is caused by a plateau or the starvation mode:noway: :noway: :noway:

Do the math for the all too familiar eating 1200 a day and not feeding the workout.
Say 60% of the food is carbs. That is only 720 carbs a day.
And use the all too familiar 1 hr a day for 5 or 6 days for a workout.
Make it a medium intensity, so 70% carbs burned during the workout, about 700 calories.
Take all the other hours in the day and pretend just the BMR level of usage, so 30% carbs used. BMR is 1000 because of underfeeding.

You do that math, and you'll see that you cannot actually top it off day after day when other activity at 50% carb usage occurs.

Hence the biggest reason for feeding the workout.

So after multiple days, yes, you can deplete your stores, and by the 5th or 6th workout, be tearing muscle down.

So not only have you lost weight all week because of glucose and water stores coming down, on a couple days you actually break down a decent amount of muscle. And now your recovery day adds a couple pounds. Or perhaps the body needs the precious fuel for other things missed lately, and it's not topped off again.

Not starvation mode, no. But a very real state that does happen.

You're right, absolutely.
But did you actually read my post properly?