Strength training: bodyweight or free weights/machines?

ruggedBear

I have recently switched trainers and they each have had a different approach to strength training. I'm interested to hear what you guys think about this:

Trainer 1 (3 months)
Program: Mix of bodyweight/free weights/Cybex machines in 4 circuits of 3 exercises each, sets of 10-20 (higher reps for bodyweight, lower for weight exercises), 2 min rest between circuits (3x week)
Typical routine included push ups, bar rows, lunges, squats with free weights, plank, ball crunches, various arm/shoulder sets with free weights or machines (rows, chest press, lat pull downs, tricep rope pulls, etc)
3-4 cardio days/week - 45 min each (combo of elliptical, treadmill and stair climber)
Results: -24 lbs, -8% BF
MFP Cals: 1400

Trainer 2 (1+ month)
Program: All bodyweight exercises - usually 3 circuits of 10 exercises each, sets of 15-20 per exercise, 2 min rest between circuits (3x/week)
Typical routine includes push ups, bar rows, lunges, squats, and planks - each in a variety of forms - no weights at all
5-6 cardio days/week - 60 min each (combo of elliptical, treadmill, bike and stair - added C2K running program)
Results: -4 lbs, no change to BF%
MFP Cals: 1200 (automatically dropped due to change in weight)

There has been no change to my diet (view diary if interested). I cook at home 95% of the time and measure/weigh portions pretty carefully. I watch sodium content and drink more than enough water. I eat back an average of half my exercise calories and have done so consistently from the beginning.

I'm thinking I need to add the weights back into the mix and drop the cardio back down to 45 mins or less. Trainer 2 doesn't want to add weights back in until I lose more fat (I have about 10-15% more body fat to lose before he wants to do this).

Let me know your thoughts - and thanks!

Azdak

Since you have been working out for awhile, I think you have a lot more flexibility in your choices. You have to be careful about comparing the results of a program you did more at the beginning of your program to one you have just been doing for a month. You have gotten the "low hanging" fruit and results on any program will likely be a little slower.

I don't know how often you are doing your "calisthenic" routine (I hesitate to call it strength training) but I think you need a little more "oomph" in your workouts. It sounds like the trainer is trying to do some type of "metabolic" workout from Shape magazine. While there is benefit to those types of workouts, I think the benefits tend to plateau out fairly quickly and there is not enough increase in progressive resistance. If you are doing squats and lunges with no weights, then I don't know that you are really doing "strength" work at all at this point. Regardless of the modality -- machines, free weights, body weight--you still need to be working to failure or close to it, and I don't see that happening.

At this point, with what you have done so far, I would have gone the opposite direction and taken you though a phase of some heavier lifting--at least for half a dozen core exercises. And then if you want to cycle though some circuit training, make it real--do push ups on an incline, or with TRX, or walking pushups, plyo pushups, weighted vest--something to challenge yourself to new levels. Same with lunges, rows etc. Stop wasting time with crunches and planks.

And cardio. Now I am "mr balanced" when it comes to cardio and I think the current HIIT fad is more than a little silly. However, in your case, it sounds like you are doing too much in the way of "bulk cardio" and not enough variety. Maybe you just don't provide enough details and so I am mistaken but when I read "5-6 days/wk, 60 min", the picture I get is a lot of trudging along. That was probably great 6 months ago, but I would recommend a bit more focus with cardio as well. By that I mean try doing 45-60 min continuously on one machine on one of your easy days. And add a couple of "interval" days as well--not all-out sprints, but maybe one day of longer intervals at an effort that is 10% more than your endurance pace, and 1 shorter day where you are doing 30-60 sec intervals at an 80-90% effort.

Just some thoughts.

carrie_eggo

I'm thinking I need to add the weights back into the mix and drop the cardio back down to 45 mins or less. Trainer 2 doesn't want to add weights back in until I lose more fat (I have about 10-15% more body fat to lose before he wants to do this).

I'm thinking your thinking is right. Your body fat % shouldn't matter when deciding whether or not to incorporate weights into your workout routine. Heavy resistance training is important, imo, no matter what your BF % is.

You are going to lose weight more slowly now since you have less to lose, so I wouldn't blame the workouts on that. Even with a lower calorie goal, it's still possible that your deficit is less because your TDEE is less than it was before.

Keep up the good work!!

addisondisease2

I don't see a single squat, dead-lift, or bench press in your new routine, it is very incomplete.

BIGJIMMYU

Unless you are used to free weights, always start on the machines and here's why. Stabilizing muscles around the joints and neck are not used to lifting weight. They tend to be wobbly at first. This can do two things. 1) Injure you and 2) cause your dominant side to lift more weight than your weak side.
Stay on the machines for a while until your stabilizing muscles strengthen. You will stay injury free and have a better muscle growth distribution on both sides. Later, when your stabilizing muscles are strengthened up good, slowly introduce free weights.

Yanicka1

Unless you are used to free weights, always start on the machines and here's why. Stabilizing muscles around the joints and neck are not used to lifting weight. They tend to be wobbly at first. This can do two things. 1) Injure you and 2) cause your dominant side to lift more weight than your weak side.
Stay on the machines for a while until your stabilizing muscles strengthen. You will stay injury free and have a better muscle growth distribution on both sides. Later, when your stabilizing muscles are strengthened up good, slowly introduce free weights.

I do not agree with this. Working on machines isolate muscles instead of muscles working together and getting stronger in harmony, thus causing an even bigger imbalance that can can injury instead of preventing it.

jacksonpt

Body weight is fine for some muscles, primarily the ones that aren't used to supporting your body weight. Other muscle groups need weights, or some type of added resistance.

A body weight push-up can be a fine exercise as your chest muscles aren't used to pushing your body weight, but a body weight squat will do nothing as your legs support your body weight all the time so there is no real strain on the muscle.

So my answer is this: it depends.

jacksonpt

Unless you are used to free weights, always start on the machines and here's why. Stabilizing muscles around the joints and neck are not used to lifting weight. They tend to be wobbly at first. This can do two things. 1) Injure you and 2) cause your dominant side to lift more weight than your weak side.
Stay on the machines for a while until your stabilizing muscles strengthen. You will stay injury free and have a better muscle growth distribution on both sides. Later, when your stabilizing muscles are strengthened up good, slowly introduce free weights.

While there is some degree of logic here, I tend to disagree. Machines can often times put you in bad position/form, not to mention that they do nothing for those stabilizing muscles that are the problem in the first place.

If someone is new to free weights, they should start off light, not stick to the machines.

jacksonpt

I'm thinking I need to add the weights back into the mix and drop the cardio back down to 45 mins or less. Trainer 2 doesn't want to add weights back in until I lose more fat (I have about 10-15% more body fat to lose before he wants to do this).

I'm thinking your thinking is right. Your body fat % shouldn't matter when deciding whether or not to incorporate weights into your workout routine. Heavy resistance training is important, imo, no matter what your BF % is.

You are going to lose weight more slowly now since you have less to lose, so I wouldn't blame the workouts on that. Even with a lower calorie goal, it's still possible that your deficit is less because your TDEE is less than it was before.

Keep up the good work!!

Agreed

jacksonpt

Personally, I think trainer 2 is missing the boat a little. Will that program get results? Yeah, probably. But that's a TON of work, and some of those exercises are doing NOTHING for you (bodyweight squats? um, that's just dumb).

IMO, all good programs incorporate a mix of cardio and resistance training. The resistance can sometimes be body weight, can be free weights, bands, etc.

ruggedBear

I don't know how often you are doing your "calisthenic" routine (I hesitate to call it strength training) but I think you need a little more "oomph" in your workouts.

Agreed! I feel like I'm ready to push harder, rather than longer and I don't feel like I'm getting much from the "calisthenics" as you say!

By that I mean try doing 45-60 min continuously on one machine on one of your easy days. And add a couple of "interval" days as well--not all-out sprints, but maybe one day of longer intervals at an effort that is 10% more than your endurance pace, and 1 shorter day where you are doing 30-60 sec intervals at an 80-90% effort.

Agree again, sorry if my description was confusing - I'm doing one machine each day, and every other cardio day I am doing running/walking intervals (now up to 2 min run/1 min walk) on the treadmill at incline (5% running, 10% walking).

Thanks for the guidance.

gtwin

Looks more like the typical workout program that a trainer would lay out for a female....high reps/light weight. And I don't see any compound exercises like squats (not on the Smith Machine), deadlifts, bench. Machines are isolation movements and don't engage as many muscles as a compund exercise would with free weights. And bodyweight squats?! Uhhh...no, that won't do much.

rochey1098

I don't see a single squat, dead-lift, or bench press in your new routine, it is very incomplete.

Some people don't want or need bench scores. The OP described it as a body weigh exercise plan, calisthenics have their own benefits, if they didn't then why are we pushing our soldiers through routines involving pull ups, push ups, sit ups etc? Is the military wrong to not force troops to bench?

Donnacoach

I would say to listen to the trainer. He/She is the one that you are paying for their professional help. Personally, I agree with Trainer
#2. I was doing weights along with my elliptical and because i wasn't losing much weight I stopped with the weights and picked up other exercises instead and lost more weight that way.