Is getting "cut" really just psychological?

gashinshotan · February 2012

Since I've lost 30 lbs and got down to 12% I just plateaued and it seems as if my body just doesn't want to lose anymore... but what I notice also is that I've been cheating a LOT to keep my weight around 150 and I think that its purely psychological because I kind of am content with what I am but I am not super "cut." Is this just the natural way our bodies/minds work? Because when I was 22% BF and 30lbs heavier it was like the weight came off easily and I was super-motivated to drop the weight... now I find myself reaching for bad foods almost unconsciously when I feel like I'm losing weight. My goal is to get a six pack but its this constant cheating that's stopping me from doing so!

grinch031 · February 2012

The only thing I consider psychological is the knowledge and willpower needed to override the physiological needs of your body. The physiological factors that got you 30 lbs heavier in the first place are still there and not going away. As you become more lean, your body is resisting and causing you to get more hungry and cheat.

Plus getting 6-pack abs requires a lot more precision in your physical training and macro-nutrients. I've found that a rather unstructured diet with loose parameters can keep me in the 'normal' body weight range, but I don't think I have the willpower to ever have or keep a visible 6-pack. Its just not worth the extra effort. I care more about athletic performance than aesthetics.

PercivalHackworth · February 2012

If you want the 6 packs, not any other option that flirting around 10% body fat. Diet will be as important as your trainnings - remember, abs are muscles like any others in ur body :=)

Quickster34 · February 2012

Its very difficult to cut down below 10% since that means your body has very lttle fat to loose, it's not psychological to get cut, although it will take an unrelenting attitude to never be content , just keep training hard!! good luck

LabRat529 · February 2012

I think weight loss in general is largely a psychological battle. There are physiological drives and cravings, of course, but no one is helpless to overcome those drives (well almost no one... some people with extreme hormonal imbalances might not be able to lose weight without meds). But I've never seen anyone lose weight without developing the right mental/emotional attitude toward it.

I don't know if that helps... but I do think it's important to recognize the mental state you're in and either choose to accept it or to consciously work on altering it.

I also don't think you need to be 'cut' to be healthy. If you're happy with your health now... then maintain and don't worry about it.

taso42 · February 2012

There is a huge psychological aspect. When I first lost a little weight and got a little bit in shape, I sort of subconsciously decided, "ok I'm done now", and then stopped working out for about a year and let my diet get worse and worse.

It just depends what you consider "done", deep inside.

UponThisRock · February 2012

As you get leaner, your body fights harder and harder against you losing weight.

There is emerging scientific data indicating that the hormone leptin seeks to force your body to return to it's bodyfat "set point," which, in your case, is probably 22% BF. (the way it seems to work is that your "set point" can go up, but not down, lol).

Leptin is going to do things to you like make you hungrier, make you more sluggish (not burning as many "spontaneous" calories throughout the day, it will even lower your testosterone if you get lean enough.

OK, now that I'm done pissing on your Wheaties, my experience with guys that are trying to get six packs is that very often the problem is not that they are not lean enough, but that they haven't built enough muscle. Very few people have enough "natural" muscle mass to have a six pack and a nice looking body the first time they cut. If you're naturally skinny fat like me, it might take you several bulk/cut cycles (and years of frustration) before you ever obtain a six pack.

A lot of guys want to keep cutting, but when they lose so much weight, their bodies doen't look like they think they're going to look, they look more like concentration camp survivors. I can't say if this is the case for you or not, just something to keep in mind.

meemo88 · February 2012

I do the same EXACT thing

EbbySoo · February 2012

Best post I've seen all day ^^

JDMPWR · February 2012

The best response that I have read all day.

questionablemethods · February 2012

THIS.

I think it is your body more than your mind. Your hormones want to keep you ALIVE, which means NOT having a six pack. Because then, what would you use as fuel during a famine?

mamitosami · February 2012

This is all so true... it's such a battle. And a super, crazy-making one at that. I feel like I'm working against the clock too! I wish I had done this years ago. I will have to learn to enjoy the journey, not just the destination. Sometimes it seems like a destination that is illusive--I keep getting lost along the way.

UponThisRock · February 2012

The destination is FAR MORE anti-climatic than you think

mmapags · February 2012

This makes a lot of sense. At 12% body fat are you pursuing just a vanity goal? Is ahving a six pack really that important. Maybe it is to you. 2 Thoughts. At this point you may not get better results through dieting. You may get better results through intense weight training and carb cycling for a few months to get that six pack. Just my .02.

scott091501 · February 2012

Too true

lilojoke · February 2012

^^^ Absolutely!

lilojoke · February 2012

The destination is a temporary fix to make you propel forward in your actions. Sure I envision myself with a six pack... Heck I had a full body lift two years ago to get rid of my excess skin. If this is as close as I am going to get to a six pack I rather enjoy my lifting and food and be merry. I have found the less I think about the destination the more realistic the destination is and becomes more appealing.

snookumss · February 2012

I think that it isn't body fat percentage dependent. Even a person at 220 could get lax and cheat more because they are comfortable with the improvements they've had. I look at that like Senioritis.

This is where you decide... is Full ride Harvard with sports scholarship more important to you than the Freshman 15 you'll get at the community college?

hiker282 · February 2012

This post makes me wonder if I really want a six pack as much as I just want to get rid of the fat and not be so 'soft' around the middle. I just want to be able to put my hands on my stomach and feel that there's something solid, not squishy underneath. I think, for me, it isn't so much about getting cut so much as it is just about being lean and mean.

lilojoke · February 2012

What I think is an issue here is we see these magazines with beautiful people in them all cut up and tell ourselves I am going to be like that person. Its fine to have a role model but remember that they do mostly live to keep their bodies like that day in and day out. I would not want to be cut 365 days just way too stressing to the body and mind.

solarpower03 · February 2012

This is it. I am exactly in the same boat. Carb cycling, weight training and HIIT seems to be the remedy. I have seen some improvement but this is certainly not easy to do, especially if you want to preserve hard earned muscles and selectively burn fat. Carb cycling requires a lot of will power and might be antithetical if you cheat. Well, I cheat as well, hence my progress is slow.

gashinshotan · February 2012

Well here is where I am at now... so I have some muscle left despite losing the 30 lbs.... its just that I'm soft.... I do lots of running and just started lifting last week so I guess I just gotta cut the cheat days.... what is Carb cycling? I run up to 13+ miles sometimes so should I be messing with carbs?

PercivalHackworth · February 2012

If you want to burn fat - no secret, log all your calories, maintain a deficit, (the cardio will make it even bigger). You have a good shape, that will need though some work. I'd say you have a 22-25% BF right there. 1 lb of fat : 3500 calories. 6 packs : around 10 BF. Do the maths, butremember that will gives you only the PURE calories of fat you'd need to burn. When you burn, it's not a direct correlation with lipolysys :smokin:

gashinshotan · February 2012

Yeah I'm starting to doubt my accumeasure calipers.... do you guys think its just bf though? Cuz I never seen an outline at all[all until I started doing crunches LAST week[/quote]
If you want to burn fat - no secret, log all your calories, maintain a deficit, (the cardio will make it even bigger). You have a good shape, that will need thou some work. I'd say you have a 22-25% BF right there. 1 lb of fat : 3500 calories. 6 packs : around 10 BF. Do the maths, butremember that will gives you only the PURE calories of fat you'd need to burn. When you burn, it's not a direct correlation with lipolysys :smokin:
[/quote]y

duharvalgt · February 2012

1) make muscles big by bulking
2) cut fat down
3) voila your physique has changed
4) repeat step 1 through.

15in8 · February 2012

I agree with the psychological call. We are not independent of our body, our hormones will influence the way we think, and they will also influence the way the body works. There will be diminishing gains at lower weights, and there will be less drive because of the hormonal influences. People can argue that is is all physical, but our bodies are full of homeostatic regulators that have evolved over a long time, there are psychological repercussions.

I also agree with the cut/gain cycle point. I am 27% fat, down from ~30% and I am 89kg. I am cutting down to 75, I have a bit of muscle, I am hoping I will see a six pack, but I will not go lower than 75. My goal weight is actually around the 78-80 mark. Once I hit 75, I will build lean mass, then cut back. I hope to achieve my goals within 12 months, but it may take a few cycles considering the 27%. I will aim to hit 8%, not to maintain, that, but just to achieve it once in my life, then I will be happy sitting at 12-15%, if I have visible abs then, great. If not....I will continue to cycle. The 3 to 1 rule is fine. 3 parts fat to one part muscle, and 3 parts muscle to one part fat. Losing or bulking dependent.

jenniebean1680 · February 2012

Yes, thank you!!

solarpower03 · February 2012

Worth reading from Bodybuilding.com

Wavelength Guide to Bodybuilding v3.0

The goal of bodybuilding is to improve body composition by losing fat and/or gaining muscle mass. If total body weight goes down in the process, the method is generally referred to as "cutting", if total body weight goes up, it's called "bulking", if body weight stays about the same, it's called "recomping".

1 Cutting

1.1 Essential Rules

- Workout with weights about 3 times a week.
- Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
- Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
- Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
- Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight loss is maintained.

The recommended rate of weight loss depends on your current body fat level. Generally, the higher your bodyfat, the higher the rate of weight loss can potentially be. The best indication for the rate being too high is if you rapidly lose strength in the gym. In this case, increase your intake and go for a smaller rate of weight loss. In general, a rate of about 1-2lbs per week is recommended.

Any cutting method that follows the above rules is close to optimal, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.

1.2 Measuring Progress and Adjusting Food Intake

- Weigh yourself once a week, always at the same time (e.g. right after waking up).
- Don't panic if your weight stays the same or even goes up for one or two weeks.
- If your weight does not go down for more than three weeks, slightly reduce calories.
- If your rate of weight loss is above the desired value, slightly increase calories.
- The change in daily calories from those adjustments should not exceed 500 cals.
- After adjustment, stay on the new value for at least three weeks before adjusting again.

If you have never done a cutting diet, it's always better to start with more calories and reduce slowly until the desired rate of weight loss is maintained. If you stay patient, you will not have to adjust very often. With more experience, you will not have to count calories anymore, but as a beginner it is probably a good idea.

1.3 Unessential Factors

Since many questions revolve around further details of cutting diets, here is a list of factors that I believe to be of insignificant effect for body composition:

- Cardio and fat burners,
- Meal timing and meal frequency,
- Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day,
- carb / fat ratio,
- Sodium intake,
- Moderate alcohol intake,
- Use of supplements resp. meal replacements,
- "Clean" food vs. Junk food (sugar and saturated fat).

All these factors should be used as tools to make the diet as convenient as possible. Many people e.g. have an easier time dieting with eating more calories and doing cardio or taking fat burners. Some people like myself have an easier time without cardio and fat burners. In my experience, the end result (body composition improvement) is not significantly influenced. Another example is protein supplements. I e.g. use whey powder to meet my daily protein intake out of convenience. I could just as well get all my protein from other sources. A third example is meal frequency and timing. This tool should be used to reduce hunger as much as possible throughout the day. For some people that means eating 6 times a day, for others it means eating only once or twice a day.

2 Bulking and Recomping

The only factor that changes for bulking or recomping is that the rate of weight change X is positive resp. zero. All other essential rules are exactly the same as for cutting (see sections above).

For bulking, the critical factor is the value of X. Everyone has a different ability to gain weight with a certain ratio of muscle vs. fat gain. This ability is dependent on things like genetics, age, training experience, etc. The ratio will decrease the higher X is, but not in a linear way. The trick is to find the optimal value for X, where the ratio is still close to optimum. Unfortunally, this is solely a matter of experience. My advise would be to increase calories by 500 over maintenance and check if weight goes up while fat gains are still tolerable. If no weight is gained, increase calories again. If fat gains are too high, decrease calories.

For recomping (staying at about the same total body weight), just weigh yourself from time to time and adjust food intake accordingly to maintain that weight. You can e.g. weigh yourself in the morning and just skip your last meal of the day if you're above target weight. You can determine your progress by how much strength you gain in the gym, by taking measurements (e.g. waist size), or simply by looking in the mirror.

3 Weight Training

Weight training refers to intense (anaerobic) strength training in this guide. This applies to all three variants of bodybuilding (cutting, bulking, and recomping). There are many methods of weight training, a typical 3 day split program is assembled here (the numbers refer to number of exercises):

Day1: 3 x Chest, 2 x Biceps, 1 x Abs
Day2: Rest
Day3: 4 x Legs, 2 x Shoulders
Day4: Rest
Day5: 2 x Back, 2 x Triceps, 1 x Traps, 1 x Abs
Day6: Rest
Day7: Rest

For each exercise, do one light warmup set, then go up with the weight on the next 2-3 sets, and do one or two heavy sets to failure or close to failure. For the smaller exercises (e.g. biceps), the number of sets can also only be 3-4 though. Repetition numbers should be in the range of 15-6. For the exercises one could e.g. do (in the above order):

3 x Chest: BB Presses, DB Incline Presses, Dips
2 x Biceps: DB Curls, Concentration/Cable Curls
1 x Abs: Situps
4 x Legs: Squats or Leg Presses, Leg Extensions, Leg Curls, Calf Raises
2 x Shoulders: DB presses, Seated Rear Lateral DB Raises
2 x Back: Pullups, Cable Pulldowns
2 x Triceps: Skull Crushers, Cable Pushdowns
1 x Traps: DB Shrugs
1 x Abs: Leg Raises

These are of course only examples, there are plenty of other exercises that can be used as replacements. There are also plenty of other workout plans such as HST, German Volume Training, etc. What's most important is that the training is intense and that all major muscle groups are involved throughout the week.

4 Psychological Tips and Tricks

- It is possible that you will not "see" changes in the mirror unless your bodyfat is rather low. Don't panic, as long as the rules are followed, everything is right on track.

- If at all, only assess your physique right after a workout. At other times it's too dependent on water retention, and the mind will play tricks on you (telling you your progress sucks, etc.).

- Have a cheat/pig-out day once in a while, where you eat what you want. I had one every week on my last diet. Don't feel guilty about it, as long as the rules are still followed (total intake still leads to the desired rate of weight change), everything is allright.

- Don't take the whole thing too serious. It's better to not care about it so much. See it more as being the coach of another person, rather than yourself.

5 Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How do I determine how much calories I should consume?
A: You can just go by what you currently eat and reduce from there as described in the guide. Alternativiely, use a calorie calculator like the "Total Metabolism Forecaster", see link section.

Q: Is it important to get the same amount of calories resp. macros every day?
A: No, it's OK to eat a little less one day and more the next.

Q: How do I determine my lean body mass for calculating my protein intake?
A: You have to take your total body weight and subtract your fat weight. If you e.g. weigh 200lbs and your bodyfat is 20% (=40lbs), your lean body mass is 200lbs - 40lbs = 160lbs. If you don't know your bodyfat, just take a guess. When in doubt, just eat a little more. However, if for some reason, you can't eat as much protein, just eat a little less, most people will still do fine.

Q: Does it matter where I get my protein from and what are good protein sources?
A: Generally, it does not matter. You can get your protein from meat, fish, eggs, cheese, protein powder, etc. Although there are differences in quality (regarding muscle sparing effect), they can easily be made up for with just a little more quantity.

Q: I work out less/more than 3 times a week, is that OK?
A: Yes, as long as all other essential rules are followed. Some people get away with less, some do better on more.

Q: I lost a lot of weight in the first few weeks but weight loss has slowed down, why?
A: The initial weight loss was probably mostly water loss. Stay at the current intake for at least another 3 weeks. If weight loss stalls, slightly reduce calories as described in the guide.

Q: What about keto diets?
A: Principally, keto diets (very low carb diets), as long as they follow all rules, would be fine. IMO, some people have a problem preserving muscle mass on a keto diet. For other people it works great. I don't think keto diets provide a significant advantage other than maybe being more convenient for some people.

Q: What about post workout nutrition?
A: I would not intentionally starve myself of protein after a workout. A meal containing some protein or a shake is perfectly fine.

Q: Apart from body composition, what about health?
A: First of all, it is important to distinguish between the goal of optimal body composition and the goal of optimal health. For the former, the guide provides all essential rules. For the latter, opinions vary a lot between experts and over time (see e.g. saturated fat, GI, food processing, cholesterol, etc.). Therefore, IMO the best way to go is to eat a wide variety of foods.

Q: How can I lose fat in certain areas of my body?
A: Although there are theories that spot reduction is possible to a certain degree, generally IMO it's not feasible. You can only reduce overall bodyfat and wait for the problem areas to come in.

Q: What exactly is your diet?
A: My cutting diet is somewhat extreme (see Links section). For bulking, I add a meal or two. That's just the most convenient way for me. However, every other diet that follows the essential rules is also perfectly OK.

Q: Should I eat differently on workout days than on off days?
A: That's not necessary, but if you're hungrier on workout days, you can eat a little more (out of convenience).

Q: Does this guide also work for girls?
A: Of course!

6 Links

How to lose fat for Noobs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113693871
How to lose fat for Noobs part 2: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=127867323
Wavelength Cutting Diet: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=33
Total Metabolism Forecaster: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=114980801
Minimum Nutritional Requirements: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113310851

UponThisRock · February 2012

To get that look you want, you're going to have to shift your focus from running and on to lifting.

Jenny_MSW · February 2012

In your case, it looks like you answered your own question. You stated yourself that you're pretty content with where you are. Being comfortable makes motivation for change much more difficult. In order increase motivation, there has to be a big discrepancy between where you are and where you wanna be (felt or actual). This is the basis for motivational interviewing which is a therapeutic technique for working with client's and getting them ready for change in therapy but it applies to motivation for anything. (I'm a therapist)

scott091501 · February 2012

Yep. OP you're what they call skinny fat. Start incoporating some lifting in to your regiment.

Is getting "cut" really just psychological?

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