Polar and it's hypocrisy

bathedinshadow

Warning: This is a bit of a rant. :noway:

I know that many of you on here are big polar fans, and because of this I have been doing a lot of research on them and considering switching from my current Timex HRM. After an entire month of dealing with them, I have come to determine that regardless of the "possibility" that their watches are more accurate, I will never purchase one. I have sent them 7 different emails. The first 4 were ignored. Then I sent a 5th one that had perhaps a harsh tone and they wrote me back in 20 minutes! They claimed to be having technical difficulties. I find it interesting that they suddenly cleared up their difficulties once my words became more harsh. I had also tried calling them at 8am, 9am, and 10am western time on different days. In other words DURING their hours of operation. Their call center was closed due to "eminent" weather. Um, I checked the weather in New York that day, and it was fine. And if they outsource, then what was there... a sand storm? Either way, when I confronted them about this they insisted that I called after hours and that their call center was never closed during those hours. I must have been drunk and couldn't read the clock or something. All that alcohol probably really threw off my calorie count! That in itself was just annoying.

If you're wondering why I was contacting them, it was because I wanted the equation their watches use to calculate calories burnt. I wanted to see the difference between timex's equation and theirs. Once they did respond, they apparently are unable to read and decided to answer a question that I didn't even ask. Or maybe this was another case of me drinking too heavily and I actually did ask a different question?

All said and done, they refuse to give me the equation and decide to throw in some Polar History for um... good measure? I find this so extremely hypocritical. A company that encourages people to take charge of their own health by providing tools, won't actually give their customers the information on the tools they are using, thus allowing us to determine their value for OURSELVES. That to me, is like food products withholding nutritional information. It's just wrong and shady. Timex had no problem providing me with their equation.

So now what shall I do. Make a fuss. I think I will. I also think I'm going to do my best to somehow get this equation and well.... post it all over the internet. Sounds a bit childish perhaps, but I'm incredibly irritated with this company and even more insulted by shadiness. I realize that coming up with an equation takes time and effort and science, but hiding that is not in the best interest in their customers. having the Timex equation does not stop me from using my HRM. It just gives me the information to make the best choice for me!

Okay... I'm done ranting. :flowerforyou:

bathedinshadow

Warning: This is a bit of a rant. :noway:

I know that many of you on here are big polar fans, and because of this I have been doing a lot of research on them and considering switching from my current Timex HRM. After an entire month of dealing with them, I have come to determine that regardless of the "possibility" that their watches are more accurate, I will never purchase one. I have sent them 7 different emails. The first 4 were ignored. Then I sent a 5th one that had perhaps a harsh tone and they wrote me back in 20 minutes! They claimed to be having technical difficulties. I find it interesting that they suddenly cleared up their difficulties once my words became more harsh. I had also tried calling them at 8am, 9am, and 10am western time on different days. In other words DURING their hours of operation. Their call center was closed due to "eminent" weather. Um, I checked the weather in New York that day, and it was fine. And if they outsource, then what was there... a sand storm? Either way, when I confronted them about this they insisted that I called after hours and that their call center was never closed during those hours. I must have been drunk and couldn't read the clock or something. All that alcohol probably really threw off my calorie count! That in itself was just annoying.

If you're wondering why I was contacting them, it was because I wanted the equation their watches use to calculate calories burnt. I wanted to see the difference between timex's equation and theirs. Once they did respond, they apparently are unable to read and decided to answer a question that I didn't even ask. Or maybe this was another case of me drinking too heavily and I actually did ask a different question?

All said and done, they refuse to give me the equation and decide to throw in some Polar History for um... good measure? I find this so extremely hypocritical. A company that encourages people to take charge of their own health by providing tools, won't actually give their customers the information on the tools they are using, thus allowing us to determine their value for OURSELVES. That to me, is like food products withholding nutritional information. It's just wrong and shady. Timex had no problem providing me with their equation.

So now what shall I do. Make a fuss. I think I will. I also think I'm going to do my best to somehow get this equation and well.... post it all over the internet. Sounds a bit childish perhaps, but I'm incredibly irritated with this company and even more insulted by shadiness. I realize that coming up with an equation takes time and effort and science, but hiding that is not in the best interest in their customers. having the Timex equation does not stop me from using my HRM. It just gives me the information to make the best choice for me!

Okay... I'm done ranting. :flowerforyou:

pettmybunny

I'm not surprised that they did not give out their formula. Not saying right or wrong, but I'm not surprised. I was actually surprised back when I found the other thread that the guy who got the Timex formula had started. I would imagine that most companies would guard their formulas (although one would think they are standard), so that another company couldn't steal it.

Anyways, I'd be happy to find out the polar formula as well... so good luck to you!

ivykivy

. i have read on other boards people had tried to get the equation and they refused. Proprietary Information. You'll probably find that the equation is the same as other companies' multiplied by the square root of 1:laugh:

Good Luck

jowily

I understand your frustration - but I see the analogy differently. To me it's not like food products not giving the nutirional information - I see it more like the food products not giving me the recipe...i know the ingredients (like the HRM it's age, weight, height,. etc) - but I don't know how to make the product because I don't know the formulation - the amount of each ingredient in the recipe. I would imagine it's a proprietary mathematical calculation...so I am not surprised they would not divulge their "recipe".

if there is any deviation - at least I am using the same baseline to measure performance from one exercise to another...so the results are relative to each of the other exercises I do measuring caloric expenditure with my HRM.

FletcherChic

i'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with Polar. i just dealt with them recently and had a great experience! i chatted live with a Polar representative who was able to help me figure out what was wrong with my HRM, then i spoke to 2 people on the phone (and my waiting time was less than 3 minutes each time!), their email correspondence with me after i mailed them my HRM was excellent - they updated me about every 2 days of my watch's status (and when it was going to take longer than they'd said, they sent me a very nice email...they must know how awful it feels for their customers to be exercising without the luxury of a HRM!)....
and like Pettmybunny stated - i am also not surprised that they weren't jumping up and down to give you the information you requested....those algorithms are specific to Polar company and like any product - under their ownership and control....(i LOVE the recipe analogy! well said johnlynn)
i hope you find the answer to your question and that you eventually find a HRM that works for you...no need to have a HRM to know that you probably burned a lot of calories calling and ranting at Polar :laugh:

songbyrdsweet

That is crappy of them. However, they're not hiding any big mysteries or anything. It's not like there are hundreds of ways to estimate caloric burn and they've got some secret formula. You can find all these boring and lengthy equations in any standard fitness textbook. There are charts and tables that will tell you your VO2Max/caloric burn/METS/etc. if you want to look it up.

bathedinshadow

That is crappy of them. However, they're not hiding any big mysteries or anything. It's not like there are hundreds of ways to estimate caloric burn and they've got some secret formula. You can find all these boring and lengthy equations in any standard fitness textbook. There are charts and tables that will tell you your VO2Max/caloric burn/METS/etc. if you want to look it up.

I agree... it's not like they've tapped into a secret market! I just want to be able to compare in order to make the best choice in terms of HRM purchases. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out. Maybe I'll just screw all of the equations and simply use the HRM for the average heart rate and plug in my own numbers.

I understand your frustration - but I see the analogy differently. To me it's not like food products not giving the nutirional information - I see it more like the food products not giving me the recipe...i know the ingredients (like the HRM it's age, weight, height,. etc) - but I don't know how to make the product because I don't know the formulation - the amount of each ingredient in the recipe. I would imagine it's a proprietary mathematical calculation...so I am not surprised they would not divulge their "recipe".

if there is any deviation - at least I am using the same baseline to measure performance from one exercise to another...so the results are relative to each of the other exercises I do measuring caloric expenditure with my HRM.

Except the equation alone does not allow me to make the product. I see what you're saying, but I see the equation more as only one of the ingredients as opposed what you're saying as it actually being the product.

I'm not surprised that they did not give out their formula. Not saying right or wrong, but I'm not surprised. I was actually surprised back when I found the other thread that the guy who got the Timex formula had started. I would imagine that most companies would guard their formulas (although one would think they are standard), so that another company couldn't steal it.

Anyways, I'd be happy to find out the polar formula as well... so good luck to you!

Yes... I contacted Timex myself (after you supplied the equation) to find out if their equation included a deduction for resting calories and they were very helpful. They made sure I had the equation written out properly and had no weird "our equation to your health is a secret" mentality.

mrsyac2

You may be pissed at Polar but I love mine I like knowing how many calories I am actually burning every workout- It takes the guessing out of burning calories for me-

Not to mention most machines are equipped with the Polar system as well-

They are the top selling brand for Heart Rate Monitors and GPS watches so I really can't blame them for not wanting to give you that information-

bathedinshadow

You may be pissed at Polar but I love mine I like knowing how many calories I am actually burning every workout- It takes the guessing out of burning calories for me-

Not to mention most machines are equipped with the Polar system as well-

They are the top selling brand for Heart Rate Monitors and GPS watches so I really can't blame them for not wanting to give you that information-

I have an HRM and I agree it's helpful knowing my heart rate all the time. But I don't have a Polar. I was considering switching since so many people talk about them here... which is what prompted all of this to begin with. However, after my experience with them.... no way. And I would never guess my calories btw. All you really need is an accurate equation and your average heart rate and you can compute it just as accurately as a watch in 20 seconds. As for the machines, they are always way off!!!

And being the top selling brand, then they have nothing to lose right. It's not rocket science. It's just an equation. :drinker:

singfree

Here's the key word: EQUATION. Calories burned are based on a theoretical set of numbers which may or may NOT be accurate from individual to individual. HRMs are a great tool because they give you a fairly close estimate of cals burned. When yyou log in your food, it is an estimate of what you've eaten, never an exact number.

This is why it is not correct to assume the cals eaten and cals burned can be tracked with 100% accuracy (using a HRM and logging on MFP). I see too many people worrying about going 20 cals over their allotment for the day or that they burned 214 cals on a treadmill. These are tools to get you close, but they are far from 100% accurate.

SHBoss1673

that sucks that you went through that.

I had better luck when I contacted polar a while ago. I don't know the whole picture though. So I won't judge them one way or another. They're a private company with all the ups and downs that goes along with it. Not sure what their policy is on giving out the formula they use, but it's quite possible that they patented their formula and aren't allowed to give it out.

What can I say, I love my HRM, but I don't necessarily car about the company itself. I have no love, or hate for them either way.

mrsyac2

You may be pissed at Polar but I love mine I like knowing how many calories I am actually burning every workout- It takes the guessing out of burning calories for me-

Not to mention most machines are equipped with the Polar system as well-

They are the top selling brand for Heart Rate Monitors and GPS watches so I really can't blame them for not wanting to give you that information-

I have an HRM and I agree it's helpful knowing my heart rate all the time. But I don't have a Polar. I was considering switching since so many people talk about them here... which is what prompted all of this to begin with. However, after my experience with them.... no way. And I would never guess my calories btw. All you really need is an accurate equation and your average heart rate and you can compute it just as accurately as a watch in 20 seconds. As for the machines, they are always way off!!!

And being the top selling brand, then they have nothing to lose right. It's not rocket science. It's just an equation. :drinker:

I suck at math and my polar takes the work out of it for me All I have to do is burn the calories and it tells me how much-
Yes the Machines suck because they aren't set up for just 1 person.

newlifestyle36

You may be pissed at Polar but I love mine I like knowing how many calories I am actually burning every workout- It takes the guessing out of burning calories for me-

Not to mention most machines are equipped with the Polar system as well-

They are the top selling brand for Heart Rate Monitors and GPS watches so I really can't blame them for not wanting to give you that information-

I have an HRM and I agree it's helpful knowing my heart rate all the time. But I don't have a Polar. I was considering switching since so many people talk about them here... which is what prompted all of this to begin with. However, after my experience with them.... no way. And I would never guess my calories btw. All you really need is an accurate equation and your average heart rate and you can compute it just as accurately as a watch in 20 seconds. As for the machines, they are always way off!!!

And being the top selling brand, then they have nothing to lose right. It's not rocket science. It's just an equation. :drinker:

COULD YOU TELL ME HOW TO CALCULATE CAUSE I DON'T HAVE A HRM I JUST GO BY WHAT MY TRADMILL SAYS

Phoenix_Rising

Giving you/ not giving you the equation aside....

... I hate their customer service sucked. Had you received good customer service the first go round, you may not have been so upset that they wouldn't divulge that equation. It may have resulted in disappointment instead of anger. I mean, after multiple emails attempts and multiple phone calls, your anger in general is understandable, at least to the likes of me. Customer service is key.

I have the Reebok Precision XT hrm and LOVE IT. No idea of their equation or if they will give it out. Just thought I'd throw out my recommendation.

bathedinshadow

Here's the key word: EQUATION. Calories burned are based on a theoretical set of numbers which may or may NOT be accurate from individual to individual. HRMs are a great tool because they give you a fairly close estimate of cals burned. When yyou log in your food, it is an estimate of what you've eaten, never an exact number.

This is why it is not correct to assume the cals eaten and cals burned can be tracked with 100% accuracy (using a HRM and logging on MFP). I see too many people worrying about going 20 cals over their allotment for the day or that they burned 214 cals on a treadmill. These are tools to get you close, but they are far from 100% accurate.

Hmmm. I hope this doesn't come across rude, as it is not my intent, but I'm not really sure why you're posting this. Nobody said anything about exact. I simply want the "most accurate" and would like to know more about a product that I was looking to purchase. It's called doing your homework. I think most people here know that none of this is exact.

bathedinshadow

Giving you/ not giving you the equation aside....

... I hate their customer service sucked. Had you received good customer service the first go round, you may not have been so upset that they wouldn't divulge that equation. It may have resulted in disappointment instead of anger. I mean, after multiple emails attempts and multiple phone calls, your anger in general is understandable, at least to the likes of me. Customer service is key.

I have the Reebok Precision XT hrm and LOVE IT. No idea of their equation or if they will give it out. Just thought I'd throw out my recommendation.

No, I agree. I'm not one to judge on ONE encounter with poor customer service. I ran into it several times in a very short period. But as with anything, there will be those that will turn their back over customer service, and those that won't. I'm pretty huge on it. There are stores that even though I never really shop there... I'll rave over because of their customer service. Example: R.E.I has an AMAZING return policy. This says a lot about a company.

I'm not necessarily unhappy with my HRM. It's just that I bought it on a whim a while ago and was really wanting to compare the different products. Maybe I'd end up staying with the one I have anyway. But thanks... I'll look into the Reebok one too!! :flowerforyou:

cmriverside

Here's the key word: EQUATION. Calories burned are based on a theoretical set of numbers which may or may NOT be accurate from individual to individual. HRMs are a great tool because they give you a fairly close estimate of cals burned. When yyou log in your food, it is an estimate of what you've eaten, never an exact number.

This is why it is not correct to assume the cals eaten and cals burned can be tracked with 100% accuracy (using a HRM and logging on MFP). I see too many people worrying about going 20 cals over their allotment for the day or that they burned 214 cals on a treadmill. These are tools to get you close, but they are far from 100% accurate.

Hmmm. I hope this doesn't come across rude, as it is not my intent, but I'm not really sure why you're posting this. Nobody said anything about exact. I simply want the "most accurate" and would like to know more about a product that I was looking to purchase. It's called doing your homework. I think most people here know that none of this is exact.

hm. Funny I had the oppostie "take" on that post. I said, "Yep, exactly," and, "The guesstimates are in the books, on the internet......it's pretty standard stuff."

You say you want the most "accurate". But accuracy is not a 100% guarantee. I think the Polar attorneys are probably behind the non-answer.

Iceprincessk25

Giving you/ not giving you the equation aside....

... I hate their customer service sucked. Had you received good customer service the first go round, you may not have been so upset that they wouldn't divulge that equation. It may have resulted in disappointment instead of anger. I mean, after multiple emails attempts and multiple phone calls, your anger in general is understandable, at least to the likes of me. Customer service is key.

I have the Reebok Precision XT hrm and LOVE IT. No idea of their equation or if they will give it out. Just thought I'd throw out my recommendation.

I have one of those as well. LOVE IT! So glad I broke down and bought one. I have a set numbers of calories I wanna burn a day and now it's easier to track.

msarro

I just want to know if their calorie counts include calories burnt from my BMR, or if the BMR calories are subtracted from the exercise calories.

staceyw37

Giving you/ not giving you the equation aside....

... I hate their customer service sucked. Had you received good customer service the first go round, you may not have been so upset that they wouldn't divulge that equation. It may have resulted in disappointment instead of anger. I mean, after multiple emails attempts and multiple phone calls, your anger in general is understandable, at least to the likes of me. Customer service is key.

I have the Reebok Precision XT hrm and LOVE IT. No idea of their equation or if they will give it out. Just thought I'd throw out my recommendation.

lauryn recommended her hrm and i bought it and LOVE it too!! it is easy to use (for this techno dummy). i also like that it wasn't very expensive. that left more $ for exercise dvds and dumbbells. thanks again lauryn for sending the reebok info my way

bathedinshadow

Here's the key word: EQUATION. Calories burned are based on a theoretical set of numbers which may or may NOT be accurate from individual to individual. HRMs are a great tool because they give you a fairly close estimate of cals burned. When yyou log in your food, it is an estimate of what you've eaten, never an exact number.

This is why it is not correct to assume the cals eaten and cals burned can be tracked with 100% accuracy (using a HRM and logging on MFP). I see too many people worrying about going 20 cals over their allotment for the day or that they burned 214 cals on a treadmill. These are tools to get you close, but they are far from 100% accurate.

Hmmm. I hope this doesn't come across rude, as it is not my intent, but I'm not really sure why you're posting this. Nobody said anything about exact. I simply want the "most accurate" and would like to know more about a product that I was looking to purchase. It's called doing your homework. I think most people here know that none of this is exact.

hm. Funny I had the oppostie "take" on that post. I said, "Yep, exactly," and, "The guesstimates are in the books, on the internet......it's pretty standard stuff."

You say you want the most "accurate". But accuracy is not a 100% guarantee. I think the Polar attorneys are probably behind the non-answer.

I didn't say I didn't agree with it. I said that I'm not sure why it was being posted as I never stated I was looking for anything to be 100%. And I'm aware that accuracy is not 100%... hence the "most" component.