Why r folks so afraid of healthy debate?

Erinslove

Why are people so afraid of healthy debate?

It is possible to debate issues without resorting to nasty personal attacks on the poster. When something really strikes me I will often share my disagreement. Sometimes with humor, sometimes with sarcasm, sometimes gently. Often, I get angry responses and I have had people then call me ugly (I now don't have a personal picture), read my bio and make fun of me for it (I no longer have a bio) and continue to attack me personally. I think it shows a lack of intelligence. Quote me all you want and disagree vehemently with the content of my ideas if you wish. It makes for interesting dialogue. However, getting irate indicates you have personal issues and character assasination is not only unproductive but also mean.

I also get amused by the scads of people who tell me I am angry because I have posted that I disagree with something. No matter how often you tell me I am angry and miserable (and all the silly things I have had said) doesn't make it true. If you are angry own it but quit accusing me. I am actually able to function in this world simultaneously holding and fighting for an array of very strong ethics, morals, and beliefs AND remain calm and be ok with the knowledge that many people disagree with me. Being "ok" doesn't mean being silent. And silent I rarely am.

I even read other people's arguments, think about them and *gasp* sometimes change my mind because I learn something. Other times, I keep my belief and I respond to discredit the argument or the idea - but not to verbally abuse the person with the idea.

CalorieNinja

I think people are so "afraid" to debate because many people have been taught at a young age to be politically correct. Also, I have found I can debate in person but when it is online people seem to hide behind a screenname and don't take into consideration other people and will attack instead of debate. So, call me afraid to debate but it is a hassle for me to do on the internet for those reasons

yoovie

Unfortunately - most of the debates come down to these people approve vs these people dont.

The people that approve of something are silly and open minded and laid back and infuse the situation with humor. (whether its tattoos, cursing in front of kids, tracking sex as a workout, fasting or running barefoot)

People that don't approve or dont participate in said food/habit/activity- usually seem to get personally outraged that there are people different from them, and results in their name calling, blind judgement and the sentencing of their souls (regardless if it is about tattoos, cursing in front of kids, tracking sex as a workout, fasting or running barefoot)

GoldspursX3

Might have something to do with your approach. When someone posted a "date my daughter application" as a joke you turned it into an attack on the boy scouts accusing them to be homophobic. That was meant to be a fun post not a debate. If other people are getting a laugh out of something that doesn't harm you, do you really need to be a party pooper and spoil that by creating a debate?

Time and place is everything.

Erinslove

I think people are so "afraid" to debate because many people have been taught at a young age to be politically correct. Also, I have found I can debate in person but when it is online people seem to hide behind a screenname and don't take into consideration other people and will attack instead of debate. So, call me afraid to debate but it is a hassle for me to do on the internet for those reasons

Actually, that makes a lot of sense to me. I think people do get more "out of hand" because they are sitting safely at home. I mean, I try to always have integrity; however, I am by no means perfect and I have said things that I regret because in retrospect they seem too harsh. So, I can totally see why someone would abstain altogether. I think abstaining is better than attacking everyone relentlessly.

Lauren8239

I notice that it just takes one person to post a nasty/negative post, and the others laying in wait jump on the bandwagon with glee. I find it disturbing.

liftingbro

Why are people so afraid of healthy debate?

It is possible to debate issues without resorting to nasty personal attacks on the poster. When something really strikes me I will often share my disagreement. Sometimes with humor, sometimes with sarcasm, sometimes gently. Often, I get angry responses and I have had people then call me ugly (I now don't have a personal picture), read my bio and make fun of me for it (I no longer have a bio) and continue to attack me personally. I think it shows a lack of intelligence. Quote me all you want and disagree vehemently with the content of my ideas if you wish. It makes for interesting dialogue. However, getting irate indicates you have personal issues and character assasination is not only unproductive but also mean.

I also get amused by the scads of people who tell me I am angry because I have posted that I disagree with something. No matter how often you tell me I am angry and miserable (and all the silly things I have had said) doesn't make it true. If you are angry own it but quit accusing me. I am actually able to function in this world simultaneously holding and fighting for an array of very strong ethics, morals, and beliefs AND remain calm and be ok with the knowledge that many people disagree with me. Being "ok" doesn't mean being silent. And silent I rarely am.

I even read other people's arguments, think about them and *gasp* sometimes change my mind because I learn something. Other times, I keep my belief and I respond to discredit the argument or the idea - but not to verbally abuse the person with the idea.

Funny you're the one starting this sort of thread.

CalorieNinja

Are you saying I can't track sex... Damn I have been doing it wrong all this time LOL
(see I infused funny here :laugh: )

Acg67

yoovie

Might have something to do with your approach. When someone posted a "date my daughter application" as a joke you turned it into an attack on the boy scouts accusing them to be homophobic. That was meant to be a fun post not a debate. If other people are getting a laugh out of something that doesn't harm you, do you really need to be a party pooper and spoil that by creating a debate?

Time and place is everything.

whoa excellent point. Yeah there are a ton of people on here that have suffocatingly reserved humor and get their pants all uproared over non-stuff.

Erinslove

Might have something to do with your approach. When someone posted a "date my daughter application" as a joke you turned it into an attack on the boy scouts accusing them to be homophobic. That was meant to be a fun post not a debate. If other people are getting a laugh out of something that doesn't harm you, do you really need to be a party pooper and spoil that by creating a debate?

Time and place is everything.

Well 1st, be accurate. I was by far not the 1st to oppose the post. I was just the one people decided to focus on. And, I didn't turn it into anything. I shared information. It is a fact that the Boy Scouts are homophobic. And the fatal flaw of your argument is that "the post wasn't causing harm." I have studied for years about the ill effects that discrimination causes in our society and words and jokes perpetuate attitudes. Lastly, this post is not only referring to the date application post. This post is a response to several previous personal experience in these forums as well as the way I see people treat others.

neverstray

I think the internet doesn't allow for facial expressions, and vocal inflections, and no emoticons don't work. So, you wind up with a very straight forward way of talking to someone. And, debating sounds like a challenge rather than an exchange of ideas. In person, it's much easier to quickly diffuse a debate that starts to get heated because you can see it coming and break in with some humor or just switch topics real quick. That's harder to do online. Not impossible, but it's harder to take back what you said because they can always go back and read it word for word. In person you can say, "That's not what I meant" and restate it, and smooth it over.

yoovie

I notice that it just takes one person to post a nasty/negative post, and the others laying in wait jump on the bandwagon with glee. I find it disturbing.

Yeah man, Glee always pisses me off.

Erinslove

I notice that it just takes one person to post a nasty/negative post, and the others laying in wait jump on the bandwagon with glee. I find it disturbing.

I agree with this. Some people will be debating just fine and one person turns it nasty and mob mentality ensues.

BrettPGH

Fragile egos. Some people can't handle being wrong. I can, it's just so rare that it happens.


We have a group, Debatable Debating. That's where the real fireworks are.

Erinslove

Why are people so afraid of healthy debate?

It is possible to debate issues without resorting to nasty personal attacks on the poster. When something really strikes me I will often share my disagreement. Sometimes with humor, sometimes with sarcasm, sometimes gently. Often, I get angry responses and I have had people then call me ugly (I now don't have a personal picture), read my bio and make fun of me for it (I no longer have a bio) and continue to attack me personally. I think it shows a lack of intelligence. Quote me all you want and disagree vehemently with the content of my ideas if you wish. It makes for interesting dialogue. However, getting irate indicates you have personal issues and character assasination is not only unproductive but also mean.

I also get amused by the scads of people who tell me I am angry because I have posted that I disagree with something. No matter how often you tell me I am angry and miserable (and all the silly things I have had said) doesn't make it true. If you are angry own it but quit accusing me. I am actually able to function in this world simultaneously holding and fighting for an array of very strong ethics, morals, and beliefs AND remain calm and be ok with the knowledge that many people disagree with me. Being "ok" doesn't mean being silent. And silent I rarely am.

I even read other people's arguments, think about them and *gasp* sometimes change my mind because I learn something. Other times, I keep my belief and I respond to discredit the argument or the idea - but not to verbally abuse the person with the idea.

Funny you're the one starting this sort of thread.

I have no idea why it's funny since I self-identify as enjoying debate and since I don't attack people when I debate it makes perfect sense I would start this thread.

MassiveDelta

But just because someone doesn't agree with a lifestyle does not make them homophobic. I think you threw that term around pretty freely a few minutes ago.
Calling someone or a group associated with a large group of people Homophobic is not only a personal attack but its not even definitively correct.

Please see the definition....http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia

.... without resorting to nasty personal attacks on the poster.

lizard053

So few people truly understand the difference between healthy debate and being hurtful. Some people take a disagreement with the thought as a personal attack, even when it's clearly meant to be an engagement into a discussion of ideas.

Sitting behind a computer screen makes many people do and say things they would never have done if you were face to face. They don't think that it will ever effect their "real lives" in any way. It's just not true anymore. But being online does seem to give people permission to be obnoxious!

We overall need to encourage people to have a little common courtesy, or at least note when their being sarcastic, etc. Can't we all just be friends?!?

GinNouveau

because people hate being wrong and love being right.

ErinBeth7

Nobody likes confrontation.

ErinBeth7

because people hate being wrong and love being right.

I was just about to say something to that degree.

Also, it is so hard to have a healthy debate because of the level of political correctness society holds these days. You may use a word, such as homophobic, to mean someone who disagrees with the gay lifestyle, but others may see it as someone being ignorant, "throwing" the term around.

So really, I guess the rule "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all," really does apply.

chasingpavements24

I haven't gone back and read your posts, but I definitely think it has to do with the person who is arguing - there are certain ways in "debating" in which the person just sounds ignorant, stubborn, arrogant, and disrespectful. And, honestly, I totally understand why people wouldn't want to engage in conversation with someone like that. Especially on a health forum, where it's VERY important that wrong ideas are immediately countered and proven wrong so that beginners/people with ED aren't negatively affected. Having said that, I have seen unnecessary (read: all) attacks on posters and those are just unacceptable. If a person is being ridiculous, just leave that thread and hope that your own success will speak for itself.

GoldspursX3

Might have something to do with your approach. When someone posted a "date my daughter application" as a joke you turned it into an attack on the boy scouts accusing them to be homophobic. That was meant to be a fun post not a debate. If other people are getting a laugh out of something that doesn't harm you, do you really need to be a party pooper and spoil that by creating a debate?

Time and place is everything.

Well 1st, be accurate. I was by far not the 1st to oppose the post. I was just the one people decided to focus on. And, I didn't turn it into anything. I shared information. It is a fact that the Boy Scouts are homophobic. And the fatal flaw of your argument is that "the post wasn't causing harm." I have studied for years about the ill effects that discrimination causes in our society and words and jokes perpetuate attitudes. Lastly, this post is not only referring to the date application post. This post is a response to several previous personal experience in these forums as well as the way I see people treat others.

So the mere mention of boy scouts throws you into a tantrum on homophobia? That seems a bit extreme. And how exactly does the mention of the boy scouts become discrimination in the first place?

yoovie

Might have something to do with your approach. When someone posted a "date my daughter application" as a joke you turned it into an attack on the boy scouts accusing them to be homophobic. That was meant to be a fun post not a debate. If other people are getting a laugh out of something that doesn't harm you, do you really need to be a party pooper and spoil that by creating a debate?

Time and place is everything.

Well 1st, be accurate. I was by far not the 1st to oppose the post. I was just the one people decided to focus on. And, I didn't turn it into anything. I shared information. It is a fact that the Boy Scouts are homophobic. And the fatal flaw of your argument is that "the post wasn't causing harm." I have studied for years about the ill effects that discrimination causes in our society and words and jokes perpetuate attitudes. Lastly, this post is not only referring to the date application post. This post is a response to several previous personal experience in these forums as well as the way I see people treat others.

My roommate is an Eagle Scout and he's been out of the closet since about 1994. It may be that there are members of the board of directors that have homohobic characteristics, maybe.... but "THE BOYSCOUTS' are not an organized group of homophobic individuals- and to say that - is so generalizing and pitted against logic... I mean seriously... how can a 7 year old boy be a homophobe unless he understands what they really even means?

It is also extremely dangerous to cultivate the idea that you have 'the right to not be offended' as that has NOTHING to do with being American at all.

I have also studied the effects of what happens when people decide to give too much power to sticks and stones and not enough emphasis on emotional responsibilty, thickening their skin or choosing their battles but most importantly- understanding and teaching the next generation that Not everyone is going to like you, Not everyone is Nice and You need to learn to deal with it now... otherwise you will embrace a victim mentality and grow up to be someone that does nothing with their life because I got picked on as a kid.

MAN UP. Take the teasing like every other generation in the past has had to do- its part of becoming socially well-rounded and self-preserving. Mama wont always be there to wipe tears when we are picked on, so we have to learn to deal with it instead of trying to stop it. It will never stop.

felice03

"It is possible to debate issues without resorting to nasty personal attacks on the poster"


nope...and thats all the farther I got...

Erinslove

I think the internet doesn't allow for facial expressions, and vocal inflections, and no emoticons don't work. So, you wind up with a very straight forward way of talking to someone. And, debating sounds like a challenge rather than an exchange of ideas. In person, it's much easier to quickly diffuse a debate that starts to get heated because you can see it coming and break in with some humor or just switch topics real quick. That's harder to do online. Not impossible, but it's harder to take back what you said because they can always go back and read it word for word. In person you can say, "That's not what I meant" and restate it, and smooth it over.

I sooo agree with this!! Well said. Once (not on the threads mentioned here but a completely different one that went south quickly) I tried over and over to explain I had been kidding - because I had - and people just kept hammering me. I just logged off.

SnakeDarling

Well... It just depends. Somethings don't need to be debated.
If they're not asking for a debate, why push it?
What's the point in starting one.

I think that's where a lot of people go wrong. It's not that people are afraid of debating, it's just that sometimes no one really wants to.

I mean... I can understand if a topic is brought up as a question or if the topic is ASKING for opinions. That's when starting a nice, healthy debate is acceptable. However, there are times when you just don't.

Live and let live, eh?

Erinslove

Fragile egos. Some people can't handle being wrong. I can, it's just so rare that it happens.


We have a group, Debatable Debating. That's where the real fireworks are.

Hahahaha! I would be SOL if I couldn't handle being wrong. It happens a lot! :-) But, that is how I learn.

MassiveDelta

But just because someone doesn't agree with a lifestyle does not make them homophobic. I think you threw that term around pretty freely a few minutes ago.
Calling someone or a group associated with a large group of people Homophobic is not only a personal attack but its not even definitively correct.

Please see the definition....http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia

.... without resorting to nasty personal attacks on the poster.

If anything its discriminatory which they have the right to be as a private organization

runningpfuhl

It is a fact that the Boy Scouts are homophobic.

A fact you say? What a broad brush to paint a 100 year organization.

We're a Boy Scout Family and very non-homophobic.

bcattoes

There are a lot of people in this world that really can't stand for anyone to think differently than them. I don't understand it, but it's as if they take it personally if someone offers a different point of view or they can't convince you to change to their view.