Inertial burning?

Josedavid

Well... I've been doing sports in a very regular basis during the last 6 months and I am very happy with the achievements I had. I wear my HRM while I do sports (Timex Ironman Global Trainer).

When I run for one hour, for example, I burn like 1200kcal. I also train with a training group and I found that if I run 30 minutes and I burn like 500kcal, after the run, is very easy that I finalize the training (I lead the training and I do the exercises I explain the team, but in a very soft way because I focus on the body position and the posture for them not to get injuries) I burned kind of 800-1000kcal total.

My HRM is well calibrated and is working perfectly

I know, now, my body performance very much better than I knew it in the past but this "inertial burn" is something I do not know yet. Is it like my body gets inertia from the running and then keep burning in a high rate during the next 30 minutes?

Thank you for your answers but, please:

- Do not answer if you do not have well based knowledge about what you are saying, I am trying to find an answer, not to open a chit chat conversation
- Do not polemize about the HRM (this is good, this is bad, i have another HRM, somebody told me that HRM are not accurate, etc)

Best Regards / Jose D.

CallmeSbo

Bump (so the post doesnt get buried, i would like to hear the responses too)

heybales

Well... I've been doing sports in a very regular basis during the last 6 months and I am very happy with the achievements I had. I wear my HRM while I do sports (Timex Ironman Global Trainer).

When I run for one hour, for example, I burn like 1200kcal. I also train with a training group and I found that if I run 30 minutes and I burn like 500kcal, after the run, is very easy that I finalize the training (I lead the training and I do the exercises I explain the team, but in a very soft way because I focus on the body position and the posture for them not to get injuries) I burned kind of 800-1000kcal total.

My HRM is well calibrated and is working perfectly

I know, now, my body performance very much better than I knew it in the past but this "inertial burn" is something I do not know yet. Is it like my body gets inertia from the running and then keep burning in a high rate during the next 30 minutes?

Thank you for your answers but, please:

- Do not answer if you do not have well based knowledge about what you are saying, I am trying to find an answer, not to open a chit chat conversation
- Do not polemize about the HRM (this is good, this is bad, i have another HRM, somebody told me that HRM are not accurate, etc)

Best Regards / Jose D.

How are you basing the idea that you are burning that many calories after the aerobic workout is done?

Are you wearing your HRM and seeing what the calorie count is during the next 30 min?

The problem is that HRM estimates of calorie burn are ONLY based on the aerobic zone, anything outside that is very inaccurate.

Some have commented wearing their HRM all day and wondering about a supposed calorie burn 3-4 times their maintenance calories.

Here is study that also makes reference to another study on that fact.

The acceptable range is going to be 90-150 bpm. That's why the HRM for weight lifting isn't accurate either, nor HIIT training into the anaerobic zone for decent periods. Just not accurate.

http://www.braydenwm.com/cal_vs_hr_ref_paper.pdf

DataBased

Bump - keeping topic on top because I'd love to know the answers, too. :-)

SteveHunt113

Bump - want to hear what others have to say. I may have more input on Tuesday ... will explain then if I do.

Josedavid

Well... I've been doing sports in a very regular basis during the last 6 months and I am very happy with the achievements I had. I wear my HRM while I do sports (Timex Ironman Global Trainer).

When I run for one hour, for example, I burn like 1200kcal. I also train with a training group and I found that if I run 30 minutes and I burn like 500kcal, after the run, is very easy that I finalize the training (I lead the training and I do the exercises I explain the team, but in a very soft way because I focus on the body position and the posture for them not to get injuries) I burned kind of 800-1000kcal total.

My HRM is well calibrated and is working perfectly

I know, now, my body performance very much better than I knew it in the past but this "inertial burn" is something I do not know yet. Is it like my body gets inertia from the running and then keep burning in a high rate during the next 30 minutes?

Thank you for your answers but, please:

- Do not answer if you do not have well based knowledge about what you are saying, I am trying to find an answer, not to open a chit chat conversation
- Do not polemize about the HRM (this is good, this is bad, i have another HRM, somebody told me that HRM are not accurate, etc)

Best Regards / Jose D.

How are you basing the idea that you are burning that many calories after the aerobic workout is done?

Are you wearing your HRM and seeing what the calorie count is during the next 30 min?

The problem is that HRM estimates of calorie burn are ONLY based on the aerobic zone, anything outside that is very inaccurate.

Some have commented wearing their HRM all day and wondering about a supposed calorie burn 3-4 times their maintenance calories.

Here is study that also makes reference to another study on that fact.

The acceptable range is going to be 90-150 bpm. That's why the HRM for weight lifting isn't accurate either, nor HIIT training into the anaerobic zone for decent periods. Just not accurate.

http://www.braydenwm.com/cal_vs_hr_ref_paper.pdf

Thank you for your answer, and for the link...

Yes, I wear the HRM till I finish our training and no, is not a weight lift training.

in Team966 we train circuits where two stations are either upper body or lower body toning and one station ins aerobic to keep the heartbeat in the aerobic zone.



Brgrds / Jose

SteveHunt113

So here's my experiment I did today. I use a BodyMedia Fit to try to measure TDEE so I can better gauge what maintenance calories I need. I've only had it a few days, but today was the first time I wore it through an exercise routine. I spent 45 minutes on the stationary bike. Consider the results I uploaded from my BodyMedia Fit:



First, you can see that the workout counted for 300 calories. But, there is still that normal caloric burn we have just to "stay alive". So really, I need to subtract 1.5 calories for each minute: 1.5 x 45 = 67.5. So we can say I burned 232.5 calories over and above my BMR.

The next 30 minutes after the bike I rested. Over that 30 minutes I burned another 101 calories (sorry, no picture to show this, but trust me!). Again, we have the 1.5 calorie (average) per minute regular burn rate, so 30 x 1.5 = 45. That means I burned an extra 56 calories while resting that was over and above my BMR.

you can see that after 30 minutes, I was back to my average 1.5 calories per minute rate.

I don't know if using the BodyMedia Fit would be considered a valid scientific experiment, so I wouldn't take this information as gospel.

If you are wondering how the BodyMedia Fit calculates calories burned, this is from their website (http://www.bodymedia.com/More-Details):

1) The armband contains an "accelerometer", a device that we use to measure many aspects of motion. Your car air-bag system uses an accelerometer to know when you have been in an accident and deploy the air-bag, your Nintendo Wii game controller contains an accelerometer to measure how you move the controller to play the games.

2) We counts your steps, using the distinctive walking and running motions measured by the accelerometer.

3) We measure your "Galvanic Skin Response". The two stainless steel pads on the back of your armband are the GSR sensor that determine how much you are sweating.

4) We measure your skin temperature using an electronic thermometer inside the armband.

5) We measure the rate at which heat is being dissipated from your body, this is your "heat flux". Exercise physiologists are interested in the heat energy produced by the body, your muscles are fairly inefficient and we all produce a lot of heat energy when we perform physical work.

heybales

So here's my experiment I did today. I use a BodyMedia Fit to try to measure TDEE so I can better gauge what maintenance calories I need. I've only had it a few days, but today was the first time I wore it through an exercise routine. I spent 45 minutes on the stationary bike. Consider the results I uploaded from my BodyMedia Fit:



First, you can see that the workout counted for 300 calories. But, there is still that normal caloric burn we have just to "stay alive". So really, I need to subtract 1.5 calories for each minute: 1.5 x 45 = 67.5. So we can say I burned 232.5 calories over and above my BMR.

The next 30 minutes after the bike I rested. Over that 30 minutes I burned another 101 calories (sorry, no picture to show this, but trust me!). Again, we have the 1.5 calorie (average) per minute regular burn rate, so 30 x 1.5 = 45. That means I burned an extra 56 calories while resting that was over and above my BMR.

you can see that after 30 minutes, I was back to my average 1.5 calories per minute rate.

I don't know if using the BodyMedia Fit would be considered a valid scientific experiment, so I wouldn't take this information as gospel.

If you are wondering how the BodyMedia Fit calculates calories burned, this is from their website (http://www.bodymedia.com/More-Details):

1) The armband contains an "accelerometer", a device that we use to measure many aspects of motion. Your car air-bag system uses an accelerometer to know when you have been in an accident and deploy the air-bag, your Nintendo Wii game controller contains an accelerometer to measure how you move the controller to play the games.

2) We counts your steps, using the distinctive walking and running motions measured by the accelerometer.

3) We measure your "Galvanic Skin Response". The two stainless steel pads on the back of your armband are the GSR sensor that determine how much you are sweating.

4) We measure your skin temperature using an electronic thermometer inside the armband.

5) We measure the rate at which heat is being dissipated from your body, this is your "heat flux". Exercise physiologists are interested in the heat energy produced by the body, your muscles are fairly inefficient and we all produce a lot of heat energy when we perform physical work.

The pedometer part is what can fool it the most. You were not moving your arms at all after the workout, walking somewhere, locker room, water, car, ect?

Because the walking combined with greater heat flux can artificially raise the level of effort it thinks is going on.

I've seen several studies discussing these types of measuring devices - great for daily non-exercise activity, not nearly as great as a HRM for actual exercise.

My own testing in different scenario's left much to be desired with the BodyMedia.

The final straw was chainsawing all day. Cool day, moving slow, never sweat much. Highest calorie burn I'd ever recorded per min x 5 over anything else. Because my arm was swinging. And vibrating.
And I'm talking in comparison to some 3-4 hr bike rides in 95 F heat with AHR at 162 at the end. Piddling. That ride made me experiment with running inside with AC and fan, and outside in hills and 95 F heat. Same calorie burn results, because I kept my turnover the same.
No difference to heat flux, to body temp, to sweat difference, to actual hills over flat treadmill, to HR being 40-45 bpm faster.
And twice I left unit in bathroom, touching the band, all day. It recorded as being on-body all day, disallowing manually entering data. Tech support said that can happen, don't let the sensors touch the band. A clean dry band caused it to think on-body?!
Not sure if that means sensitive sweat sensors, or sensors merely for knowing they are on you, aka 9-volt batter on tongue method.

Anyway, despite my research pointing out issues with it, and my own experiments causing me to stop using it (and found MFP because of that decision), I know it can still have a use for getting good true maintenance level calories. Just suggest taking out anything estimated during an actual workout.

And I know that there is indeed some initial after cardio work the body does for recovery so calorie burn should be somewhat higher than normal sitting, even if you headed over to juice bar and sat down for the 30 min immediately. The main focus of your BMR is actual fluid control in the cells, and that of course has to go nuts somewhat after a cardio workout.

But I never had it once record higher burn after the workout based on weight lifting, when I could feel the muscles still warm 4-5 hrs later.

SteveHunt113

heybales wrote:
The pedometer part is what can fool it the most. You were not moving your arms at all after the workout, walking somewhere, locker room, water, car, ect?

I was at home, and only went from the bedroom upstairs to the dinning room table downstairs and ate dinner.

I've seen several studies discussing these types of measuring devices - great for daily non-exercise activity, not nearly as great as a HRM for actual exercise.

I wore my HRM as well because I wanted to compare the what I said vs. what I got. for the 45 minutes the BMF said 300 calories, where my HRM said 363. I wasn't sure which was more accurate, though I tend to believe the HRM. The bike, on the other hand, read 470+ calories.

Anyway, despite my research pointing out issues with it, and my own experiments causing me to stop using it (and found MFP because of that decision), I know it can still have a use for getting good true maintenance level calories. Just suggest taking out anything estimated during an actual workout.

My first 2 days using the device I didn't really have any exercise to speak of. So I'll be interested to see what the reading show for tomorrow.

Something else I read on the BMF site was that riding a car on a bumpy road can throw the thing off too.

I purchased the device with the intention of using it for about a month to get some numbers. I got it on eBay for $62.

heybales

Something else I read on the BMF site was that riding a car on a bumpy road can throw the thing off too.

I purchased the device with the intention of using it for about a month to get some numbers. I got it on eBay for $62.

Hmmm, should have looked closer at the drivers to work then!

Great deal, that's for sure. Was touch decision spending the money and then abandoning it 5 months later.
But the taking it off for a workout so I could then log HRM calories was getting to be a bit much.

Hey, at least it's not as bad an effect first time I left the Garmin Forerunner still on a workout while driving somewhere. My running calorie burn was enormous at that pace! It doesn't use HR at all, just age/weight/pace/activity.
That was a nice discovery.

Josedavid

Hey! thank you all for your experiments!!!