Smith Machine Squats - need help with form

fieldsy4life

Hey Guys,

I know a lot of folks encourage staying away from the Smith Machine, but I actually prefer it for certain exercises; I also joined a new gym closer to my apartment that is more of a "Fitness Club" and they don't have a lot of the powerlifting equipment you see at Gold's and World's.

Anyways, with squats, since I can't get under the bar and take a few steps back, I feel like I'm off balance and I was getting some knee pain that I never noticed before. Looking at pictures online, it looks like people position their feet in front of them, so the movement is more like a leg press machine - if that makes sense.

Anyways, any tips you could offer online would be appreciated. I'll keep reading on the bodybuilding forums in the meantime.

Thanks!

ldytaz

I have the same problem, maybe this will help you:

The Squat, one of the most compound leg exercises, is utilized for overall leg development in most athletes’ training programs. Many consider the squat one of the three major lifts when it comes to bodybuilding/exercise because of how many major muscle groups it activates. Not only are you engaging your quads during the eccentric phase, but you are also activating your glutes and hamstrings as you sit back into the motion and drive through with your pelvis on the way back up completing the motion. Let’s also consider the core (Abdomen) that takes a lot of stress as you pound your way through the motion. There are just a few of the major body groups worked during the exercise. Squats are extremely difficult to perform correctly. If you don’t perfect your form before you pack weight onto the bar, you could seriously injure yourself.

Lets go over a few mistakes that individuals do make while squatting or you see on a daily basis in the gym.

1) Inadequate Range of Motion

Most people refer to these individuals who perform the exercise as “Half Squatters” or “Quarter Squatters”. The premise behind this point is that the individual is not going to the adequate depth. Squat until your thighs are parallel with the floor, or go a bit below parallel (*kitten* to Grass as many call it). Most people only complete a portion of the full range of motion of a squat, which means that lots of folks are missing out on the full benefits of squats in their strength-training program. Going only half way down or a small way down is actually placing more stress on the individuals knee’s and will cause long term tendonitis or problems with their knee’s. Performing the full range of motion takes more stress off the knee’s and places more stress on your hips and engaging the hamstrings throughout the exercise.

2) Not “Sitting Back” at the bottom of the motion

When most individuals squat they lack “Sitting Back” or getting back into the motion to help activate the glutes or hamstrings which is a vital part of squatting. Most individuals tend to not place the weight of their feet on their heels (which they should) to help them achieve this. Another major problem is the first instinct of individuals when they squat is to just drop into the eccentric part of the life (the negative portion), which again is untrue. Individuals should be “Breaking” at their hips as they descend into the motion allowing the individual to place their weight on their heels and push their hips back into the motion allowing them to get a further Range of Motion (ROM). Lifter who have problems sitting back will most likely be placing the weight on their toes or leaning forward as they squat. This leads to me third mistake made by most individuals.


3) Wearing improper shoes performing the squat.

Lets face the facts; most individuals who set foot into a gym wear the wrong shoes when squatting. Those individuals are wearing tennis shoes or a shoe with an elevated heel. The downside to wearing a shoe like this is that it makes it harder for the individual to correct mistake #2 of sitting back into the motion. Raising the heel makes it harder for the individual to place the weight on their heels and allowing them to sit back into the motion. This will draw the individual to place the weight of their feet on their toes and making the squat a more quad dominant exercise and neglecting their hamstrings and glutes in the motion. They will also struggle to reach adequate ROM and may be squatting higher than they should placing more stress on their knees. The solution to this problem in my eyes is getting a flat foot shoe or squatting in your socks or barefoot.

4) Toe placement

Most individuals when first squatting will place their toes right in front of them. For most this will be very uncomfortable and restrain the individuals from getting adequate ROM and feeling comfortable with their squatting form. Another thing you will see with straightforward toe placement is the individuals may “Cave” their knees at the bottom of the motion. This shows that their groin muscles are lacking strength, and your knees must be inline of your thighs, especially when performing a deep squat. The reason being is the he weight of the bar on your shoulders can cause your knee to collapse inward if you don’t have a proper stance (caving as described above). These can be common mistakes you see most people execute as they will bounce out of the bottom of the motion instead of controlling the weight throughout the execution. Try placing your toes slightly outward (not a lot) but maybe a 25 to 30 degree angle to allow yourself to sit back and prevent the knees for caving. Try to focus on “Spreading the Floor” at the bottom of the motion by pushing your hips out and placing that weight on your heels. This will make a world of difference once you continue to practice the motion.

5) Watching your form in the mirror

A huge mistake is individuals will try to watch their motion when executing the squat. People will look at side mirrors or look straight ahead during the squat. People should refrain from doing so because it will draw their attention off the execution and more on what they see and can cause injury. If possible have someone such as a personal trainer watch your motion. Let them be your guidance because you should place a point on the wall and keep your focus on it. Don’t stretch your head up too far or else it will take away from your hip drive throughout the motion. I like to place a point on the wall just above eye height and I keep my spine neutral throughout the motion with a slight arch in my lower back to take away lower back pain. Another possible solution is to bring a small digital camera in the weight room and take a video of your squat so you can watch it back at home or upload your video online for proper form critique. Never take your focus off what you are doing because it can lead to serious injury and making a fool of yourself in the gym (falling down or failing the current rep you are performing on the squat).

One final note is to ALWAYS stress form over weight. Don’t try to impress others by lifting x amount of weight. Given time and dedication in the gym with adequate form you will be stimulating the muscle and reaping the benefits of this compound exercise. Do not be intimidated by others because we all have different goals towards weightlifting. Some may pursue bodybuilding or competing in a show while others can still consider themselves bodybuilders because they are doing an activity to enhance their lifestyle and build a better body.

wellbert

One thing that's a pretty universal complaint on BB sites and from pro trainers: Smith machines -prevent- the use of correct form, by forcing your body to conform to its mechanical limitations.

The best information I've ever read on squat form was in Rippetoe's starting strength. Try to apply as best as you can, I guess.

fieldsy4life

This was a good article on squat form - thank you for sharing. The kid using the machine before me was DEFINITELY a half-squatter; you gotta get low!

I found some tips on other forums:

1. Putting your feet in front of your body puts more strain on your knees. Keep your feet in line with the bar and push off your HEELS.

2. Only use the smith machine for Front Squats (been meaning to try these anyways).

It seems knee pain is common for smith machine squats because of the unnatural range of motion compared to a squat rack.

fieldsy4life

Older article, but good read: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson120.htm

Interesting that he does 4 different Hamstring exercises; I only do one presently.

Looks like I'm going to switch to Front Squats, but also try Smith Machine Lunges as well: http://exercisesforlegs.com/quadriceps-exercises/lunge-exercises/

JNick77

Hey Guys,

I know a lot of folks encourage staying away from the Smith Machine, but I actually prefer it for certain exercises; I also joined a new gym closer to my apartment that is more of a "Fitness Club" and they don't have a lot of the powerlifting equipment you see at Gold's and World's.

Anyways, with squats, since I can't get under the bar and take a few steps back, I feel like I'm off balance and I was getting some knee pain that I never noticed before. Looking at pictures online, it looks like people position their feet in front of them, so the movement is more like a leg press machine - if that makes sense.

Anyways, any tips you could offer online would be appreciated. I'll keep reading on the bodybuilding forums in the meantime.

Thanks!

Try YouTube... John Meadows / Mountain Dog Training recently posted a good video on this.

thefuzz1290

Older article, but good read: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson120.htm

Interesting that he does 4 different Hamstring exercises; I only do one presently.

Looks like I'm going to switch to Front Squats, but also try Smith Machine Lunges as well: http://exercisesforlegs.com/quadriceps-exercises/lunge-exercises/

He does 4 different hamstring exercises because he's on steroids. The average person doesn't need to do much for legs if he does squats.

Anyways, you're going to end up hurting yourself if you continue to squat on the smith machine. You'd probably be better off with dumb bell squats, or just doing the leg press than smith machine squats.

rileysowner

You said it earlier, knee pain is very common, I would say expected, doing squats with a smith machine. I personally wouldn't do squats with a smith machine, ever. Knees are too important and I have enough knee problems without adding that to it. This is just my opinion though.

maverick48

You said it earlier, knee pain is very common, I would say expected, doing squats with a smith machine. I personally wouldn't do squats with a smith machine, ever. Knees are too important and I have enough knee problems without adding that to it. This is just my opinion though.

Exactly.
I don't understand why anyone would use the smith machine. It doesn't prevent you from injuring yourself, it makes it more likely.

JNick77

As much as I hate the Smith Machine it does have SOME (not much) merit. It allows you to really isolate the muscles during the squat because it does provide that support. I'd be hard-pressed to think that it's much better than a Leg Press machine though.

Check this out, page 2 has what you're looking for and some additional info.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/why_i_love_the_smith_machine&cr=

TheLakeBeast

TODAY I GOT EXPLOSIVE.

RonSwanson66

You said it earlier, knee pain is very common, I would say expected, doing squats with a smith machine. I personally wouldn't do squats with a smith machine, ever. Knees are too important and I have enough knee problems without adding that to it. This is just my opinion though.

This.

If you don't have a power rack, you would be much better served with single-leg squats (with DB's) and/or leg presses.

Fitwam

I used to use the Smith machine in high school with basketball practices (coached really pushed it my senior year). When I hit the college level...blew my knees out. I've had 5 knee surgeries...maybe a coincidence, but I blame it on earlier and improper training on the smith machine.

badgerbadger1

I left my last gym for this very reason, they only had a smith machine. I go to a gym that's further away so I can do proper barbell squats and deadlifts. The risks of squatting with the smith far outweigh any benefits. I'd also do dumbell squats over the smith, but you're going to be limited in your squatting weight.

Elizabeth_C34

I did squats this week with dumbbells at home, and it worked quite nicely. I only tried the Smith machine squats once and my knees were killing me. I highly suggest avoiding it.

If you want to work on your form, do barbell squats in the rack with just the bar and focus on each movement you make.

UponThisRock

You can't do a proper back squat on the smith machine, IMO.

Front squats might be possible.

JNick77

I did Bulgarian Split Squats the other day for the first time ever... OMG those were actually really challenging. Love 'em!!

killagb

As much as I hate the Smith Machine it does have SOME (not much) merit. It allows you to really isolate the muscles during the squat because it does provide that support. I'd be hard-pressed to think that it's much better than a Leg Press machine though.

Check this out, page 2 has what you're looking for and some additional info.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/why_i_love_the_smith_machine&cr=

It also takes away balancing the weight, run from the Smith machine. Run far away.

JNick77

As much as I hate the Smith Machine it does have SOME (not much) merit. It allows you to really isolate the muscles during the squat because it does provide that support. I'd be hard-pressed to think that it's much better than a Leg Press machine though.

Check this out, page 2 has what you're looking for and some additional info.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/why_i_love_the_smith_machine&cr=

It also takes away balancing the weight, run from the Smith machine. Run far away.

which is why the author suggests using this from time-to-time, it allows you to forget about balancing the weight and just really focusing on the muscle.

I'm no proponent of the Smith Machine, trust me there. I just remember reading this article because I know John and thought the OP might like it. My gym has 2 Smith Machines and I keep suggesting they remove them in-favor of power racks.

Abells

Sorry to say, but a smith machine is no bueno for good squats or even challenging squats. When you squat a free weight it also works your core cause you have to balance unlike a smith machine squat. when on a machine you have to lean back a bit into the squat but you'll never know your true lifting capacity on them. I use to use them then did free weights and it was a huge difference.

Also, like the above suggestion on using dumbells. Single leg squats or both legs and go into an overhead press if you want to get wild.

Another good thing to use to build leg is a bosu ball. Try doing squats on those.

Also keep your head up and back straight. You want to sit your fanny out and knees outward -- don't let them come in. Do some hip stretches

RonSwanson66

Sorry to say, but a smith machine is no bueno for good squats or even challenging squats. When you squat a free weight it also works your core cause you have to balance unlike a smith machine squat. when on a machine you have to lean back a bit into the squat but you'll never know your true lifting capacity on them. I use to use them then did free weights and it was a huge difference.

Also, like the above suggestion on using dumbells. Single leg squats or both legs and go into an overhead press if you want to get wild.

Yes

Another good thing to use to build leg is a bosu ball. Try doing squats on those.

No (and you were doing so well, too).

Also keep your head up and back straight. You want to sit your fanny out and knees outward -- don't let them come in. Do some hip stretches

That's better.

BrettPGH

Well this thread has convinced me to stop using the smith machine. Sigh. I have a feeling I'll be using less weight as well... sigh.

Abells

Sorry to say, but a smith machine is no bueno for good squats or even challenging squats. When you squat a free weight it also works your core cause you have to balance unlike a smith machine squat. when on a machine you have to lean back a bit into the squat but you'll never know your true lifting capacity on them. I use to use them then did free weights and it was a huge difference.

Also, like the above suggestion on using dumbells. Single leg squats or both legs and go into an overhead press if you want to get wild.

Yes

Another good thing to use to build leg is a bosu ball. Try doing squats on those.

No (and you were doing so well, too).

Also keep your head up and back straight. You want to sit your fanny out and knees outward -- don't let them come in. Do some hip stretches

That's better.

HAHA -- WELL NOTED

BUT have you ever done squats on a bosu ball? I mean standing on the black side not the bouncing part? with weights if you dare -- I do single legs. I can stand on those suckers now without wobbling everywhere.

JNick77

Well this thread has convinced me to stop using the smith machine. Sigh. I have a feeling I'll be using less weight as well... sigh.

Definitely, but your strength should explode back up just the same.

Abells

Well this thread has convinced me to stop using the smith machine. Sigh. I have a feeling I'll be using less weight as well... sigh.

your weight will def. drop -- mine did when I made the switch but def. so much better that I did.

JNick77

Sorry to say, but a smith machine is no bueno for good squats or even challenging squats. When you squat a free weight it also works your core cause you have to balance unlike a smith machine squat. when on a machine you have to lean back a bit into the squat but you'll never know your true lifting capacity on them. I use to use them then did free weights and it was a huge difference.

Also, like the above suggestion on using dumbells. Single leg squats or both legs and go into an overhead press if you want to get wild.

Yes

Another good thing to use to build leg is a bosu ball. Try doing squats on those.

No (and you were doing so well, too).

Also keep your head up and back straight. You want to sit your fanny out and knees outward -- don't let them come in. Do some hip stretches

That's better.

HAHA -- WELL NOTED

BUT have you ever done squats on a bosu ball? I mean standing on the black side not the bouncing part? with weights if you dare -- I do single legs. I can stand on those suckers now without wobbling everywhere.

I did bosu ball squats with my PT when I was rehabbing a disc protrusion. Those are probably good for warm-up's before you do weighted warm-ups but not much more. Nothing replaces the Back Squat.

wellbert

Head up is hard on the spine and can push you out of form.

I have to go with Uncle Rip. Keep those eyes on the ground in front of you.

Elizabeth_C34

Well this thread has convinced me to stop using the smith machine. Sigh. I have a feeling I'll be using less weight as well... sigh.

You will, but you'll get so much more out of it. Just be patient and keep working on that form.

RonSwanson66

Head up is hard on the spine and can push you out of form.

I have to go with Uncle Rip. Keep those eyes on the ground in front of you.

I have yet to see a single person use that cue without GM'ing the weight up.

ask4itall

I use a Smith machine for squats...my gym doesn't have a regular power rack...it's Planet Fitness...so...it's NOT a bodybuilder or power lifter gym whatsoever.

At the bottom of the Squat...my mechanics are:

a.) my legs (ankle => knee) perpendicular to the floor
b.) my thighs (hip => knee) are parallel to the floor.

I use a bench as my stopping point to ensure my thighs are parallel to the floor.

Setting up the squat...I make all my adjustments without any weight and essentially mark a point on the floor where my toes need to be at the height of the exercise (the starting point).

As you know...proper technique is very important...and I'd recommend checking out Westside Barbell on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWestsidebarbell). They teach great technique.

Good luck!!


David

killagb

I use a Smith machine for squats...my gym doesn't have a regular power rack...it's Planet Fitness...so...it's NOT a bodybuilder or power lifter gym whatsoever.

At the bottom of the Squat...my mechanics are:

a.) my legs (ankle => knee) perpendicular to the floor
b.) my thighs (hip => knee) are parallel to the floor.

I use a bench as my stopping point to ensure my thighs are parallel to the floor.

Setting up the squat...I make all my adjustments without any weight and essentially mark a point on the floor where my toes need to be at the height of the exercise (the starting point).

As you know...proper technique is very important...and I'd recommend checking out Westside Barbell on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWestsidebarbell). They teach great technique.

Good luck!!


David

If your gym doesn't have a power rack and you want to lift with good results....change gyms.