Confused about strength training vs. cardio

sarafil

Okay, I hope I am able to clearly articulate my question: when I joined MFP, I was a beginner runner, with the goal of completing a half marathon in Sept of this year. I am still working towards that goal, and running 3-4x per week. While I would like to achieve this goal, I am also very interested in building muscle and lowering my body fat percentage. I do not currently have weight to lose, but need to increase strength and work on the body fat.

Since joining this site, I have heard a lot about the New Rules of Lifting for Women, and picked up a copy. Everything I have read in this book makes complete sense to me, and I believe strength training is probably the key to the body I want. What is frustrating to me is that I am in the midst of this endurance goal (running) at the same time I am essentially reading that an endurance sport is not going to give me the results I am looking for.

So here is my question: can I realistically pursue both, at the same time? If I am needing to run every other day, and I lift heavy on my "rest" days from running? Or am I going to hurt myself?

barefoot76

As long as you have time, you can (and should) do both. I do. In fact, strength training helped me immensely when I trained for the halfs I ran in January and February!

Are you following a training plan for the half? I loved Hal Higdon's plans!

Anelda

What I have generally seen is that you need to pick one or the other. If you are training hard in the weight room and training hard for endurance, your body will most likely pick endurance, as Mr Schuler states in his book.

Alwyn Cosgrove (also a co-author of NROLW), on his blog, explains the hierarchy of fat loss. This excerpt has particularly stuck with me:

"I think whenever we try to pursue two goals at once we tend to compromise results. This is usually because we have a limited resource: time. If our goal is to generate fat loss, then using a periodized training approach with a specific fat loss phase (e.g. four weeks, eight weeks, etc.) where we focus exclusively on fat loss will always yield better results in the long term than trying to juggle two goals at once."

You can read the rest of the article here: http://alwyncosgrove.com/2010/01/hierarchy-of-fat-loss/

secretlobster

It really depends on what your goal is. Heavy lifters are rarely marathon runners. Realistically, you do not have to forego lifting or running, you can do a combination of both. But since they involve different types of muscle fibers (fast twitch vs. slow twitch), you're not going to achieve a body that is a perfect hybrid of both. There comes a point when your work on your running (fast twitch muscle fibers) is going to interfere with your lifting (slow twitch muscle fibers). You also cannot build muscle without rest days. If you want to work on building muscle, you will probably have to cut down on running so that you can rest and not overwork your muscles. Otherwise you are going to end up very frustrated.

lambertj

I do both, I run about four miles 5-6 days a week and lift three days a week. If you have the time, I say go for it!

kmturtle3

Last summer, I trained for a 1/2 marathon in October. I had just finished doing P90X and had started going on little (1-2) mile runs in the afternoon when I got home from work, and decided to kick it up.

I alternated strength training and running days for the most part - lifted M/W/F, ran T/Th/Sa/Sun. I got to a point where my T/Th runs were always 5 miles, and then I did my long run on Saturday, with a "recovery" run of whatever I felt like on Sunday.

I can happily say I am injury free and completed my 1/2 in 2 hrs and 18 mins, so its totally doable. Right now, I am doing P90X2 in the morning and usually go for a 20-ish minute run in the afternoon if I have the time and/or feel up to it.

I have noticed some serious muscle definition that I didn't have before, and I'm sure if I could manage to give up visiting a different brewery every weekend I would have the body I have always wanted. Instead, I have the body I have always wanted with a beer gut and some loose skin on my belly. :happy:

So if you have the time to do both and want to, DO IT! Its not like you are a guy who is trying to "bulk up" or something - I find that the best bodies I have seen all come from people who have a healthy balance of strength and cardio.

bcattoes

You can and should do both. How much of each is totally up to you.

There are a LOT of MFP members that come here from a body building site and post a lot of information to promote body building and/or that only applies to body builders, though they don't always add that qualification. It's good to keep that in mind on these forums.

sarafil

thank you for the info, what people wrote made sense. I think I will try to mix both, but not necessarily follow the plan laid out in the New Rules book (at least at this point in my running journey). I am running with a group sponsored through a running speciality store, so I'm hoping I can make it to the end of a half safely. Thanks again for the input!

tlhorsley

I think you can strength train (and should) while training for your half.

I also think that doing New Rules of Lifting for Women and training for the Half is giong to be very difficult.

I am on week 2 of New Rules and totally "get it" now when they say that if you put your all in to the lifting then you aren't going to feel like doing a 30-40 minute cardio afterwards. My legs are shot after my workout and they need the next day to recover -they are tired and sore.

I think it comes down to picking what is most important to you right now. The Half or the Lean Body. I had to make the same decision last year and I chose a Half and now I can concentrate on building lean muscle.

So in my opinion you can and should lift and train at the same time but it is not as intense and heavy. I personally think it would be asking to much of your body to do New Rules and train for a Half at the same time.

This is strictly my opinion.

ninerbuff

One will suffer over the other. You just need to choose which is more important to you at the time. I've trained many people who want to run a marathon and still lift for strength, but in reality the body can only do so much. It would be VERY rough on the nervous system if you tried to do both with full effort. So pick the one that's the most important to you first.


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neverstray

I can't do both. Maybe 20 year olds can, and maybe 30 year olds can, but at 46, I cannot do it. I've tried, and I feel like I've been beat up after a week and it just completely wears me out all the time, where all I want to do is sleep all day long. i just can't do it. It' stoo much. I need to rest. So, I have to pick. Right now, I'm picking running because my goal is to run a marathon at the end of this year. But, I think strength training is better from a weight loss and trmming stand-point. I think cardio has some benefits, but if you have to choose, I'd say strength training is the stand-out winner.

If you can do both, that's ideal. But I don't see how anyone can really do that well. I like the way P90X splits it up. If you can do it like that, it's a pretty good way to go.

Huffdogg

So here is my question: can I realistically pursue both, at the same time?

No

runningfromzombies

I've done both strength training and a rigorous running schedule for the last four months (I've been trainined for a half-marathon). It hasn't affected me negatively, not even while running over twenty miles a week and strength training for an hour three days a week.

However, if you've never lifted before, you might want to wait until after your event to start strength training, just to give you some time to adjust to the change. The plan I'm on for my half-marathon advised me not to lift during my training if I'd never done so before, but since I had, I went ahead with it.

mstemen

I think you can strength train (and should) while training for your half.

I also think that doing New Rules of Lifting for Women and training for the Half is giong to be very difficult.

I am on week 2 of New Rules and totally "get it" now when they say that if you put your all in to the lifting then you aren't going to feel like doing a 30-40 minute cardio afterwards. My legs are shot after my workout and they need the next day to recover -they are tired and sore.

I think it comes down to picking what is most important to you right now. The Half or the Lean Body. I had to make the same decision last year and I chose a Half and now I can concentrate on building lean muscle.

So in my opinion you can and should lift and train at the same time but it is not as intense and heavy. I personally think it would be asking to much of your body to do New Rules and train for a Half at the same time.

This is strictly my opinion.

This for me as well. I can easily run 3 miles when I'm not strength training. On days that I do work hard at strength training I can barely run a mile so I end up usually running a half mile and then walking the rest of my work out. I'm going to start alternating my work out days but I think it's really whatever works best for you. You'll never know unless you try.

PercivalHackworth

Not directly related but could help in case you wonder how yo mix them :
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/516601-why-you-wouldn-t-mix-cardio-and-strenght-training

deekaydee

One will suffer over the other. You just need to choose which is more important to you at the time. I've trained many people who want to run a marathon and still lift for strength, but in reality the body can only do so much. It would be VERY rough on the nervous system if you tried to do both with full effort. So pick the one that's the most important to you first.

I agree with this. I was training for races when I started lifting. It wasn't too long into it that I really felt like I was not able to achieve the gains I was looking for while doing both.

If you're serious, pick one or the other. If you're okay with doing mediocre at both, you can probably get away with it.

For me, I'm still running 3x per week and lifting 3x per week. I've eased up on the running a bit, not running as hard or as long, until I get past my 10-mile race in April. Then I'll back off even more and really push the lifting. I'm not seeing major gains on either side but I'm okay with that right now.

sarafil

All great thoughts. I think for now I am going to focus on the running, but still do strength training on my days off of running. I have been doing some strength training for a long time now, so it is not new to me...I just don't think I can embark on a plan like the New Rules recommends while I am training for the half. But I will definitely keep up with push ups, squats, lunges, shoulder press, etc. After I (hopefully!) achieve my goal of the half, I'll probably ease off the running and pick up a more intense weight lifting regimen.

neanderthin

Both should be maintained. People tend to think in extremes and your conclusion is a perfect example. While weight lifting and adding muscle might be a hinderence in long distant endurance running, you need to establish what goal your trying to acheive and if that is to become competetive and make a living out of running, then possibly there could come a time where cardio may be the important routine. If it's to help in maintaining a healthier lifestyle, lower body fat percentage while maintaining a decent amount of muscle mass, then do both with vigor and enjoy your new body.

funkycamper

I think you can do both but I also agree that it depends on what your goals are. I just want to become overall fit and, to me, that means lifting heavy, doing HIIT, and doing some longer steady-state cardio. I'm also training for back-to-back century rides this summer but it's not a race, I just want to be in good enough shape to complete it. So far, so good but, at the same time, I realize that I might have to back off a bit on my lifting and HIIT as I get closer to the big event and my training rides become progressively longer. I'll just listen to my body to best determine how to handle this is and when the time comes.

Azdak

One may compromise the other to some degree, but probably not to the degree that most people think.

Everyone keeps trying to make this an "either/or" issue, when in fact it rarely is.

A lot of the research results in this area might make a practical difference for elite athletes, but the average recreational exerciser will notice little if any difference.

This can't be stated enough. If you have not been lifting, then you are going to see significant gains--I don't care if you are running 10 miles a day. "Less gain" does not mean "no gain".

For whatever reason, people seem semi-obsessed with making this a lot more complicated and distorted than it needs to be.

Lifting will not compromise your running training--except for possibly restricting your running a little at the beginning because you might have some leg fatigue at the start. It is almost certain that weight training will improve your performance--if for no other reason than helping you maintain an efficient running posture later in the race.

Just do it.

tross0924

One may compromise the other to some degree, but probably not to the degree that most people think.

Everyone keeps trying to make this an "either/or" issue, when in fact it rarely is.

A lot of the research results in this area might make a practical difference for elite athletes, but the average recreational exerciser will notice little if any difference.

This can't be stated enough. If you have not been lifting, then you are going to see significant gains--I don't care if you are running 10 miles a day. "Less gain" does not mean "no gain".

For whatever reason, people seem semi-obsessed with making this a lot more complicated and distorted than it needs to be.

Lifting will not compromise your running training--except for possibly restricting your running a little at the beginning because you might have some leg fatigue at the start. It is almost certain that weight training will improve your performance--if for no other reason than helping you maintain an efficient running posture later in the race.

Just do it.

This.

You'll get stronger, faster, and leaner.

If you only lift would you be able to get stronger than the combined program. Yeah probably. And if you only run would you be able to pull a little better time than otherwise? Yeah probably. But were you planning on entering a powerlifting competition? Or winning the half? No? What does it matter then?

meshashesha2012

depending on the amount of cardio you mean, there's no reason you cant do both. of course training for a half marathon or marathon or tri is going to be a bit different

i'm doing NROL4W for a second time. the first time i did it i also trained for a 10K. i was able to gain tons of strength, gain muscle (i didnt lose weight because i consistently ate over my maintenance) and finish my 10K race with a pretty decent time. of course 10K is still somewhat a sprint distance, but i do find it annoying how when the lifting heavy and cardio question comes up, people automatically assume that cardio means 90-120 minutes a day.

Pebble321

Interesting posts, thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I'm training for a half marathon in August (after talking up running just over a year ago) but also decided that this year i want to get stronger and faster, so I've started doing some strength training (using the machine we have at home plus a bit of bodyweight stuff).

I've reduced my running to three days a week (from four or five days), so now I typically run x 3, strength train x 2, long walk x 1 and rest x 1.

I feel as though my running is not up to scratch at the moment, but it's hard to tell if that is related to the strength work or because I had to stop running for a few weeks due to injury and then build up again.

I don't suppose it really matters - I'm going to keep doing both for now and see how I go. I have a 14k race at the end of May so I think that will be a good test to see if I'm well on the way to the half. If the running still feels tough in a month or so I might drop strength training down to 1 x week until after the race.

2fit4fat

I