Is it true that you gain muscle first and THEN the weightlos

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  • kris523sydney
    kris523sydney Posts: 34
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  • petrocoetsee
    petrocoetsee Posts: 829 Member
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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,961 Member
    Well - it's sort of true. The reality is that you lose fat by building lean muscle. So, if you are strength training and building the muscle, as the muscle gets stronger, you should see better results on the scale. For cardio, although great for your heart and indurance, it burns calories (not fat).

    Remember, it IS true that muscle weights more than fat.

    So, the bottom line is, keep doing what you are doing and you will eventually see the results on the scale that you see in the mirror!

    GREAT JOB!
    You lose fat when in calorie deficit and you retain lean muscle.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,961 Member
    There will be a million different opinions on this, especially the "can you build muscle and burn fat at the same time" subject...

    I recommend researching all the viewpoints. This book is a great source of information:

    http://www.amazon.com/Mens-Health-Muscle-Authoritative-Building/dp/1579547699/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332134471&sr=1-1
    There's opinions, then there's science. The science is that the probability of building muscle on a calorie deficit in the average person is pretty nil.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • jesusHchris
    jesusHchris Posts: 1,405 Member
    The science is that the probability of building muscle on a calorie deficit in the average person is pretty nil.

    I completely agree, hence the bulking and cutting phases. I still think it is good to research different viewpoints. Today's proven science is often debunked and laughed at in the future.

    I do think it is possible to do both when someone is first getting started, though. There are some quick and easy muscle gains in the beginning, until you reach a bit of a wall and need to push yourself harder and stuff yourself fuller. I have experienced this personally.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,961 Member

    I completely agree, hence the bulking and cutting phases. I still think it is good to research different viewpoints. Today's proven science is often debunked and laughed at in the future.
    It's good to see peer reviewed studies and not pseudoscience. Most of the "myths" and exaggerated claims of weight gain, loss, muscle building, fat burning, etc. come from merchants and salespeople trying to sell their ideas to the desperate and naive. And when anecdotal testimony appears, they use it as proof to substantiate their claims. This is why the weight loss business is a trillion dollar a year business. People are suckered into believing that some of these programs are legit.
    But yes, do ACTUAL research which means looking at actual Journals of Medicine, Sport, Nutrition, Metabolism, etc. and see if there is any conflicting evidence.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • memega
    memega Posts: 73
    I've been doing cardio for a month and consistently reducing weight every week. However the very first week I started weight training, my scale took a sharp u-turn and it showed a gain of 1.3kg I was the least impressed. Not only was I doing an hour plus cardio everyday, I just added additional alternate days of fairly intense weight training for my ability. But a quick search across various fitness forums ensured me that the momentary spike in weight was water retention and swelling etc. Not to mention the DOMS pain that followed! Anyways, 3 weeks into weight training and I'm back to my losing steak :smile:

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

    This link sort of attempts to simplify and explain the fat loss vs. muscle gain situation.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    The science is that the probability of building muscle on a calorie deficit in the average person is pretty nil.

    I completely agree, hence the bulking and cutting phases. I still think it is good to research different viewpoints. Today's proven science is often debunked and laughed at in the future.

    I do think it is possible to do both when someone is first getting started, though. There are some quick and easy muscle gains in the beginning, until you reach a bit of a wall and need to push yourself harder and stuff yourself fuller. I have experienced this personally.

    And yet, it is possible, if you select not to lose too much.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/447514-athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet

    It's much easier to give a simple exception considering the audience we are talking about here in context.

    You can lose fat and gain muscle on a calorie deficit diet with the exception if you are already trim and fit and lifting, or you eat under your BMR constantly.
  • babareeba
    babareeba Posts: 74 Member
    bump for later
  • KimbersNewLife
    KimbersNewLife Posts: 646 Member
    No.

    Most likely water retention from exercising. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of calories to put on pounds of muscle. It doesn't happen by accident, or by mistake. You can't build muscle without knowing it.

    People that have muscular builds spend years working hard to look like they do, it doesn't happen by accident in a week while you're trying to lose weight. It's just water. Eventually it will go away once your body adjusts to the exercise.

    In the case mentioned above, I guess I am just lucky! I have lost 5 inches in my waist and only two pounds. Now to give credit to what the above poster is saying I did lose 10 lbs right of the bat, first week of P90X but then I gained eight back. So...in my experience you can Weigh more but have it be muscle...it must be that way because I only lost 2 lbs in three weeks but also got rid of Five inches. My body just seems to be agreeing that muscle does weigh more than fat and I sure won't be correcting it! HA LOL My hips, legs and thighs can keep right on beliveing muscle weighs more than fat because it's working well for me. :wink: :wink: :happy: :happy:
    edited for spelling :)
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
    And $5 worth of gold costs the same as $5 worth of cow manure, but no one would argue if I said gold is more expensive than poop. :laugh: I wish we could all just agree that the "by volume" is implied.

    That all said... Any new or increased exercise routine can cause fluid retention and a temporary stall or gain on the scale. And the scale is a craptacular way of viewing progress anyway. So take measurements, take photos, go by how clothing fits, and weigh yourself, and if all four of those methods of gauging your progress are going in the wrong direction... rethink your plans. If most of them are going in the right direction, you're on the right path.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    No.

    Most likely water retention from exercising. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of calories to put on pounds of muscle. It doesn't happen by accident, or by mistake. You can't build muscle without knowing it.

    People that have muscular builds spend years working hard to look like they do, it doesn't happen by accident in a week while you're trying to lose weight. It's just water. Eventually it will go away once your body adjusts to the exercise.

    In the case mentioned above, I guess I am just lucky! I have lost 5 inches in my waist and only two pounds. Now to give credit to what the above poster is saying I did lose 10 lbs right of the bat, first week of P90X but then I gained eight back. So...in my experience you can Weigh more but have it be muscle...it must be that way because I only lost 2 lbs in three weeks but also got rid of Five inches. My body just seems to be agreeing that muscle does weigh more than fat and I sure won't be correcting it! HA LOL My hips, legs and thighs can keep right on beliveing muscle weighs more than fat because it's working well for me. :wink: :wink: :happy: :happy:
    edited for spelling :)

    I really think what you said in this post is the key. There is so much focus on "weight" loss. Is that the best goal or is "body recomposition" the best goal. As ninerbuff said, it's unlikely to build muscle in a deficit but you can train and condition the muscle you have. If your focus is just on losing weight, you will lose lean muscle mass at the same time. Then have to go and build lean muscle back.

    This is just my opinion and everyone has to do what's best for them but I'm choosing strength training with HIIT and steady state cardio with running and bike (outdoors now that spring ahs arrived!). I'm not losing very quickly. Abut 8 lbs in about 12 weeks but I've lost inches and gained strength. I probaly ahven't gained any new muscle tissue but I've brought what muscle tissue I had back from shrinkage and I'm much tighter. I'm down 2 inches at the waist and my clothes are loose and I'm wearing things I haven't fit into in years. I've recently done what heybales is suggesting and increased my food intake to a very slight deficit to feed any possible muscle building and I am still losing inches.

    As my body fat reduces a little more, I'll go to no deficit and probably a slight overage to work on building some muscle then again into a slight deficit to continue to reduce body fat. I guess my point is, I think it's better to focus on building fitness and reducing body fat rather than losing weight. If your leaner and healthier, who cares what the scale says??!! The scale is a lying cheating miserable @#%&*!
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
    No.

    Most likely water retention from exercising. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of calories to put on pounds of muscle. It doesn't happen by accident, or by mistake. You can't build muscle without knowing it.

    People that have muscular builds spend years working hard to look like they do, it doesn't happen by accident in a week while you're trying to lose weight. It's just water. Eventually it will go away once your body adjusts to the exercise.

    In the case mentioned above, I guess I am just lucky! I have lost 5 inches in my waist and only two pounds. Now to give credit to what the above poster is saying I did lose 10 lbs right of the bat, first week of P90X but then I gained eight back. So...in my experience you can Weigh more but have it be muscle...it must be that way because I only lost 2 lbs in three weeks but also got rid of Five inches. My body just seems to be agreeing that muscle does weigh more than fat and I sure won't be correcting it! HA LOL My hips, legs and thighs can keep right on beliveing muscle weighs more than fat because it's working well for me. :wink: :wink: :happy: :happy:
    edited for spelling :)
    That's definitely water weight fluctuations. You lost 10 pounds of water weight, then gained back the water, and lost 2 pounds of fat. You do not lose 10 pounds of fat in a week (that would take a caloric deficit of 35,000 calories under your maintenance level, or burning 5,000 extra calories a day.) You also don't gain 8 pounds of muscle in matter of a few weeks.

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