Question to trail/ultra runners...

DonPendergraft

I ran a personal trail marathon (27 miles) Saturday as my last long run before my next 50K on April 7th. Not sure why, but my knees started really hurting around mile 20. My cardio seemed good, and while my legs were tired, I felt like I could have pushed on with a good pace. However, it hurt so damn bad when I would try to kick it up a notch that I ended up finishing the run pretty poorly.

School me on pain meds. I believe Tylenol is OK, but Ibuprofen is bad (and Aspirin). What about Aleve? If it's Tylenol, I'm thinking of dosing at about the 15 mile mark of my 50K and hoping for the best.

But maybe it's my shoes. My trail shoe is the Inov-8 Roclite 319's. Awesome tread and armor, but I'm not crazy about them because my ankles roll around quite a bit for them. Not enough stability for me. But I'm thinking that their lack of cushioning may be also contributing to the knee pain. I can't afford a good pair of clown shoes (Hoka's) right now, so I'm contemplating just wearing my road shoes for the race. Brooks Beast. They are awesome. The trail isn't too rocky or technical so I think I can get by with it. No armor, so I will really have to watch the roots and rocks I tend to kick. )

Ideas?

Daisy_Cutter

Wow - you're a mess! LOL -- kidding!

Ok- so take this for just my personal experience.... I've NEVER done an ultra, but I've trained for one but ended up in a cast on my right foot a week before the event - over-training. However, I've run 18 marathons so know a bit about distance running. - edited to add that I've done distance on trails too, not just paved roads! LOVE single-track running!

That said, I think you may need new shoes. How many miles are on them? Do you track that? Typically my shoes would last about 350-500 miles. That's not a lot when you're training for an ultra. It also depends on how heavy you are. My trail shoes would last a bit longer but not much.

You have a couple weeks of taper now too, so do just that. Taper! Allow your knee to recover. If you can run 27 now, you'll be able to run 31 in two weeks. I'd focus on recovery right now. As far as running in your street shoes, that's your call. I know plenty of people who do just that. If they have more "mileage" left in them, that would probably be best.

Tylenol at mile 18 or so should kick in when you need it the most. Don't take too much.... still want to watch upsetting your stomach. Good luck!

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Shel

sixisCHANGEDjk

What's the 'bad' with Ibuprofen? I've used it recently for shin pain on the runs I do.

Pronoiac

bumping until I can get back to it.

MacMadame

There are some studies showing that taking ibuprofen (advil) OR acetaminophen (tylenol) for muscle soreness will lessen your fitness gains. There are some other reasons not to take them as well but that's the biggie for me.

I think another reason is that pain is a good behavior regulator. If you are getting shin pain while running, you need to fix the cause. For some people, if they can take something and the pain goes away, they will never fix the root cause and will end up with bigger problems later.

ludgerclay

I've run a couple dozen trail ultras, including 100 milers, and ibuprofen is my pain killer of choice. I suffer from arthritis in my toes and fingers, so for a 50k trail race I'll take a couple at the start and one more at the mid point. The way I understand the risk: there is potential for kidney damage either with prolonged use, or if your kidney function is already compromised (for example by dehydration or other toxins). I take it on race day, and make sure my water and electrolytes are porperly taken care of, and I'm good for the race. (ps I ran 43 personal marathons last year)

DonPendergraft

Thanks for the responses!

A couple of things I've found since I began poking around on this subject:
1) Tylenol for pain is prolly just fine and dandy.
2) NSAID's including Aspirin and Ibuprofen can be bad. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/phys-ed-does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-during-exercise/
3) I may just be low on Co-Q10! " If you're on a statin like Lipitor or Pravachol to lower your cholesterol, you're going to be deficient in Co-Enzyme Q10. Statins prevent the body from making Co-Q10, which is an essential nutrient for the body, almost like a vitamin. The joint pain and muscle aches some people." Maybe I just need some Co-Q10! http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/2008/04/what-the-expert.html

I'm pragmatic. Whatever works! So if what you are doing works for you, then rock on! If not (like me), do some digging. )

Pronoiac

First, congratulations on finishing such a tough event!

I use natural anti-inflammatory products during my long runs to help with any acute swelling and pain (not a NSAID, and not for regular usage). I can’t think of the name off hand but you can message me if you are interested. It’s very effective for me.

Based on what you described my first thought is the shoes. Less stable shoes, whether by wear or design, can lead to rapid leg fatigue of the finer muscle aspects and thus the bigger muscles have to take on a greater role in balance and equipoise. The trail you describe for your coming event (low technical rating) sounds suitable to a good set of Brooks, but you know each of those best.

Trail_Addict

bumping this so I can learn!