When to Drink Whey Protein?

72MonteCarla

If you must supplement your protein intake, I would recommend spirulina powder, not whey. Spirulina is a complete protein and is a plant. It is much healthier and more nutrient-dense than whey.

Eh?

Sorry, would you care to explain a complete protein? Whey contains proteins that the body requires. There isn't a single protein for th

A complete protein contains adequate proportions of all 9 essential amino acids. Most animal-based proteins are complete. Most plant-based proteins are not. Spirulina, however, is.

Matt_Wild

If you must supplement your protein intake, I would recommend spirulina powder, not whey. Spirulina is a complete protein and is a plant. It is much healthier and more nutrient-dense than whey.

Eh?

Sorry, would you care to explain a complete protein? Whey contains proteins that the body requires. There isn't a single protein for th

A complete protein contains adequate proportions of all 9 essential amino acids. Most animal-based proteins are complete. Most plant-based proteins are not. Spirulina, however, is.

You need more than just EAA to grow! Certainly they must be consumed in the diet to grow. Milk whey (or cheese) is complete. I don't see how plant is better than milk?

As for the carbs/insulin question. I've been thinking of it and this is what i'd say:

Okay: according to many text books macro is a macro and a calorie is a calorie, however this is bull**** to put it bluntly.

First you need a calorie deficit to burn fat: thats a given, that simple statement is not so simple, because also know that an intake of 3000 and expenditure of 4000 will yield greater fat loss than an intake of 1000 and an expenditure of 2000, due to the initiation of starvation mechanisms below a certain calorie level (a level that varies and is unknown just to be helpful).
Secondly, once you create a deficit we know that the composition of macros makes a difference. We know this because of 2 things, first experience: using real people you can achieve fat loss on a maintenence diet intake by swapping carbohydrate intake and making it protein, and protein to carbohydrate - typically creating an intake of 100-150g carbs a day, 2, we know that the creation of glycogen from protein involves a conversion whereby energy out is slightly less than energy in - although the amount lost is unknown. Thereby your 1000calorie deficit is actually in a practical terms greater.

Thirdly, as identified the action of insulin, again because we dont have numbers this is over looked; simple carbs cause a rapid rise in insulin, we know this signals the halting of fat burning, what we do not know is how long fat burning is switched off for in relation to the duration insulin levels are elevated to the point at which fat utilisation is reduced. We have no curve, or set of reference levels - however, what we do know is that the effect happens, and we know that small, rapid elevated rises in insulin accurately timed can result in an almost lack of fat loss within a calorie deficient diet.

mmapags

To the OP, a protein shake is not critical but, as others have said, can aid with recovery from lifting. It is a supplement to a heatlhy diet althoug it can be used occaisionally as meal replacement. All latest research data says that timing within a 24 hour window is only marginally critical fro protein to aid in muscle recovery.

I personally bring a protein shake to the gym for after workout and ingest some form of moderately glycemic carb, like say a banana before workout. I work out in the morning so I would be working out fasted and all the info I've read, primarily on Alan Aragon's blog and Lyle McDonalds blod is that wokrout out fasted is not optimum for fat burning. I drink my shake right after workout just because I like to. It gives me some nice nutrition right after my workout and rehydrates me.

As far as what Matt_Wild is saying, I primarily agree but at 110 lbs I'm not sure it matters to the OP. But for me at 200 lbs trying to get to 185 it does. I don't ever intake any simple carbs for this very reason. A banana is as close as I get and that is to the high end of the moderately glycemic scale. I also don't take in any additional carbs other that the 15 grams or so in my protein shake for a couple of hours after workout. I read some time back that an insulin spike right after workout short circuits HGH production on Mercola's site. Not sure if that's true or not but that's how I do it and I'm comfortable with that.

chrisdavey

The broscience is the fact that unless you are training fully fasted then you will still have amino acids being used from previous meals. Hence why it doesn't matter if you have a "quick" digesting whey shake or a slow digesting casein shake pre or post training.

This "broscience" line does irritate somewhat - there are studies that show both sides of the coin. You speak like you are in the absolute right. I've seen and read the studies you have, but also practice what I preach and find the method I suggest works for the guys and girls I coach.

Drop the broscience line mate, it makes you look arrogant.

Not intended.

Are you saying that having a whey shake postworkout with some carbs is more beneficial for muscle repair than eating a similar meal prior to training?

I do agree that if you want to intake simple carbs, around workout time is the go for sure but I can't see how getting protein from a shake is any different from a whole food source from a previous meal. If you are talking fasted training, then don't worry about that

FRGHTRAIN

I would suggest having it before you go to sleep, when your body repairs itself the most

That's what I have been doing
Me too, also keeps that mid-night snack urge away!!!

chrisdavey

Thirdly, as identified the action of insulin, again because we dont have numbers this is over looked; simple carbs cause a rapid rise in insulin, we know this signals the halting of fat burning, what we do not know is how long fat burning is switched off for in relation to the duration insulin levels are elevated to the point at which fat utilisation is reduced. We have no curve, or set of reference levels - however, what we do know is that the effect happens, and we know that small, rapid elevated rises in insulin accurately timed can result in an almost lack of fat loss within a calorie deficient diet.

So you're saying eating high gi carbs, during a resting part of the day with an overall calorie deficit will inhibit some fat lass but if there is still an overall deficit that you will lose weight?

Sidesteal

we know that small, rapid elevated rises in insulin accurately timed can result in an almost lack of fat loss within a calorie deficient diet.

Are you familiar with Krieger's series on insulin?

Matt_Wild

Thirdly, as identified the action of insulin, again because we dont have numbers this is over looked; simple carbs cause a rapid rise in insulin, we know this signals the halting of fat burning, what we do not know is how long fat burning is switched off for in relation to the duration insulin levels are elevated to the point at which fat utilisation is reduced. We have no curve, or set of reference levels - however, what we do know is that the effect happens, and we know that small, rapid elevated rises in insulin accurately timed can result in an almost lack of fat loss within a calorie deficient diet.

So you're saying eating high gi carbs, during a resting part of the day with an overall calorie deficit will inhibit some fat lass but if there is still an overall deficit that you will lose weight?

Essentially you are going to lose very little or stall - whether you want to term this as the body holding back what you eat (as fat) or simply using what you have eaten is up to you. My point is, it may well inhibit fat loss.

Perhaps I was wrong to say it will entirely for everyone but for quite a number of people it may well do. The whole problem is that due to previous diets, insulin sensitivity and so on, it varies greatly.

Krieger - yes, I've read a small amount of his work. But...

The problem you will find here on MFP as with everywhere, is you will ALWAYS find studies and opinions with detail that counter other studies! Its a myriad of opposing studies showing different people with different body compositions. And even that is another slant - someone with a larger than average muscle mass (e.g. some of us trained guys) compared to the average every day person - the result will not be the same.

Matt_Wild

I do agree that if you want to intake simple carbs, around workout time is the go for sure but I can't see how getting protein from a shake is any different from a whole food source from a previous meal. If you are talking fasted training, then don't worry about that

I would argue even if it only puts a pound or two of muscle on in a year, it is worth it. Clearly a good level of easily digested proteins are/is better than no protein. Unless you'd like to show a study showing that shakes or indeed BCAA's around training are not beneficial. To be fair, I'd often suggest BCAA's over whey however - I can show many that suggest it is (Exercise Promotes BCAA Catabolism: Effects of BCAA Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle during Exercise
Yoshiharu Shimomura,2, Taro Murakami, Naoya Nakai†, Masaru Nagasaki and Robert A. Harris).

I presume you agree that BCAA ingested pre/intra/post can be beneficial since as I'm sure you'll agree that protein synthesis is switched off when the BCAA unless supplied to the body.

What is more its shown to BCAAs protect against muscle damage and strength loss during intense resistance training (1. Kraemer WJ, Ratamess NA, Volek JS, Hakkinen K, Rubin MR, French DN, Gomez AL, et al. The effects of amino acid supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance training overreaching. Metabolism. 2006 Mar;55(3):282-91. )

that BCAAs taken before resistance exercise reduces muscle soreness (Shimomura Y, Yamamoto Y, Bajotto G, Sato J, Murakami T, Shimomura N, Kobayashi H, Mawatari K. Nutraceutical effects of branched-chain amino acids on skeletal muscle. J Nutr. 2006 Feb;136(2):529S-32S. )

and that a diet higher in protein and lower in carbs helps body composition (debatable again due to many variables!) (Krieger JW, Sitren HS, Daniels MJ, Langkamp-Henken B. Effects of variation in protein and carbohydrate intake on body mass and composition during energy restriction: a meta-regression. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Feb;83(2):260 -74.).

ST99000722

Whey is best before a workout because it is a protein that absorbs/digests quickly so it will give you the carbs you need for your workout right away. But, you can drink it at any time.

Casein protein is better after a workout or later in the evenings before you go to bed because it is a very slow absorbing/digesting protein. While it is highly recommended for the evenings and before bed, you can also take it anytime.

fanatstic. mentally tagging that for workout "debates" with the other half.