Cycling etiquette

lisaabenjamin

Cycling etiquette made simple:

1) Always ride in designated cycle lanes where available. At other times, ride on the roads in single file, close to the edge of the road to avoid obstructing other vehicles as much as possible. Ride on pathways only when no cycle lane is available or if the road conditions are deemed to be too dangerous.
2) Be aware of your surroundings and other road/path users. Ride at a speed appropriate to your surroundings and other traffic, give way to pedestrians and if you must travel several people abreast, ensure that you quickly move into the side of the road in single file if a vehicle approaches from behind.
3) Make yourself as visible and obvious as possible to other road/path users. This includes but is not limited to: wearing hi-vis clothing, epecially at night and in poor visibility conditiond, reflectors and front and rear lights at night or in poor visibility, and use of bells/whistles/calls to alert your presence to others. Signal when maneuvering and don't sneak up on people.
4) Obey the highway code, which is applicable to ALL road users, not just motorized vehicles. And yes, this means you have to stop at red lights.
5) If you run over a dog, be nice and stop to apologise to the owner.


Pedestrian etiquette made simple:

1) Walk on paths designated for pedestrians and keep to the side. If walking a dog, keep them on a short leash (or close at heel) to ensure they do not obstruct the path.
2) Be aware of other path-users including runners, cyclists, skaters etc. Make sure that you leave enough room for them to pass you easily without them giving you a fright. Walk in single file or make sure to move out of the way if cyclists/runners want to get by.
3) Do not walk in cycle lanes.
4) Pick up your dog poop.

kaned_ferret

This may be cnotroversial, but as a cyclist who has hit a dog, I think dogs should be kept on a lead unless there are somewhere enclosed, like a dog park, or well trained enough to not run off, particularlly after wheeled things.

I am not saying that your dog ran in front of the cyclist, and it sounds like the cyclist should have taken a bit more care by riding more slowly if there are walkers/runners on the trail and CERTAINLY should have stopped to check everything was ok and apologise.

My only cycling accident I have had (and I cycle daily in heavy traffic in London with cars, buses, taxis, motorcycles and pedestrians) was with a dog, when a dog off its lead ran away from its owner straight in front of my bike whilst I was going down a hill. I hit the dog and there was no way I could have kept going, in fact on impact I flew over the handle bars and ended up facedown on the pavement with quite a few scrapes and bruises and blood.

What did the owner do? With blood coming off me, he didn't even check that I was ok, he just went after his dog and spent the next five minutes talking to the dog whilst the only person who came over to check that I was ok was another cyclist.

The bottom line is that everyone is using shared spaces, everyone should take care, be aware of their surroundings and look out for each other.

I'm sorry that this happened to you, and I totally agree that the owner should have asked if you were ok and apologised!

I think basically, being a cyclist doesn't make you an asshat, being an asshat makes you an asshat. So the same people that don't show due care to others when they're out on their bikes, are probably the same people that pull out in front of us at junctions as drivers, and the same people that walk straight out into the road rather than using a crossing as pedestrians!

The dog park bit doesn't apply over here, we don't have them where I live And luckily it's a very dog-centric town, and most people like to see dogs roaming free (in appropriate spaces of course!) to explore and have fun. I love it in the summer when I can go swimming in the sea and my little fudge-bear comes out for a paddle with me

Inconsiderate dog owners irk me just as much as the next person, especially when it comes to picking up lol - I have been known to chase people and loudly ask them if they knew their dog pooed right there, and would they like a bag?:bigsmile:

mummyv811

Cycling etiquette made simple:

1) Always ride in designated cycle lanes where available. At other times, ride on the roads in single file, close to the edge of the road to avoid obstructing other vehicles as much as possible. Ride on pathways only when no cycle lane is available or if the road conditions are deemed to be too dangerous.
2) Be aware of your surroundings and other road/path users. Ride at a speed appropriate to your surroundings and other traffic, give way to pedestrians and if you must travel several people abreast, ensure that you quickly move into the side of the road in single file if a vehicle approaches from behind.
3) Make yourself as visible and obvious as possible to other road/path users. This includes but is not limited to: wearing hi-vis clothing, epecially at night and in poor visibility conditiond, reflectors and front and rear lights at night or in poor visibility, and use of bells/whistles/calls to alert your presence to others. Signal when maneuvering and don't sneak up on people.
4) Obey the highway code, which is applicable to ALL road users, not just motorized vehicles. And yes, this means you have to stop at red lights.
5) If you run over a dog, be nice and stop to apologise to the owner.


Pedestrian etiquette made simple:

1) Walk on paths designated for pedestrians and keep to the side. If walking a dog, keep them on a short leash (or close at heel) to ensure they do not obstruct the path.
2) Be aware of other path-users including runners, cyclists, skaters etc. Make sure that you leave enough room for them to pass you easily without them giving you a fright. Walk in single file or make sure to move out of the way if cyclists/runners want to get by.
3) Do not walk in cycle lanes.
4) Pick up your dog poop.

^^^^^ Like! I will try to keep the pedestrian etiquette in mind! Hurrah for happy cyclists/motorists/pedestrians :happy:

iuangina

I totally agree. I'm a dog owner who is furious when others have their dogs off their leashes. It's not fair to my dogs (who are both rescues that cannot handle being off the leash) that your loose dog can come up and attack them and they can't fight back. It pisses me off. I also find it hard to believe that someone on a bike could run over your dog without falling off especially if they were on a road bike. I wouldn't ever have my dog off the leash if it isn't a dog park regardless of the "rules". I also find it hard to believe that the actual rules allow for dogs to be off leashes. I've never heard of such a thing on a highly trafficked path.

as a cyclist and a runner, i see both sides of it. personally, i don't think dogs should ever be off their leash, unless in a specifically closed in dog park. new york city has them all over the place, and most people are very very good about keeping their dogs on leashes while in public.

now please do tell us, was the dog kind of running all over the place, since he had the freedom of being leashless, and ran into the cyclist as much as the cyclist ran into the dog?

i've been on my bike and and almost got knocked down by a pebble. i find it hard to believe that a cyclist could run over your dog and just keep going.

madmickie

Faster traffic should give way to slower traffic. So the cyclist should give way to pedestrians but this was a collision between a cyclist and a dog. In my view dogs should be kept under control by their owners and not be a nuisance to other path users. I dont want a happy or grumpy dog jumping up on me under any circumstances - who knows where their paws and mouth have been. I dont want bitten by one - again - either and i dont want to continuously have to sidestep their crap. But that's sharing paths for ya.

in this case the blame is shared but I think most lies with the dog owner. The consequences for both could have been more serious - and in the extreme even fatal. So train your dog and keep it on a lease when in a shared use area regardless of what the local bye-laws are - for the good of your dog and everyone else using the path.

kaned_ferret

For those of you who don't believe our dog laws - yes, dogs are allowed off lead where I live. On the section of beach in question, the restrictions are seasonal, and we're out of season atm. And if I were to only let my dogs off in a "dog park", well they wouldn't go off lead, as we don't have them round here! As for keeping a dog on lead "for their good", well I can tell you I know a lot of dogs whose quality of life would be greatly reduced by not having the freedom that being off-lead enables - it is after all a natural state of being, whereas being on a lead is not (not saying that it's detrimental to dogs that need to stay on lead for whatever reason, shelter canine behaviourist by trade here so I've worked with a lot of dogs that stay on for varying reasons), which leads me to:

I completely agree that if somebody else has their dog on lead that off-lead dogs should be put on, but that's a whole different conversation (again, it's a question of etiquette for sure!) I always bring my dogs in and lead them up if there are other on-lead dogs, or to hang onto them whilsts cyclists pass.

In this case the guy was going so fast I didn't have a chance to do that, so I fail to see what else I could have done. I am of course thankful that not only is my dog ok, but that a "real" accident wasn't caused by the incident. I'm not bashing cyclists (though it seems some here ARE bashing dog owners!), just rudeness / lack of etiquette, I hope I conveyed that.

MisterDubs303

I find the whole attitude to cyclist unbelievable! Cycling is a valid, environmentally friendly, healthy, economical and safe way to travel. I drive, run, walk and cycle, usually on an almost daily basis. My preferred mode of commuting / travel to work and for errands is cycling. If the roads were full of cyclists there wouldn't be so much congestion, fewer accidents and less stress. As I spend most of my time as a cyclist waiting for cars in city traffic I cannot understand unreasonable and inconsiderate attitude of car drivers.

Ask yourself how much time do you actually spend waiting behind another car and how much time do you spend behind a cyclist..?

I actually agree. I think cycling is a clean, safe (well, I did knock my teeth out once), inexpensive form of transportation. I commend people for riding their bikes to work, and I think it's a great form of exercise and recreation. I'm torn re: the answer to the problem of effectively blending it with auto and pedestrian traffic, but it seems like in either case, for all three groups, courtesy goes a long way. It's the blatant lack of courtesy and disregard for the established protocol that was at the core of my earlier rant. Other than that, I'm happy to share the road, trail, or even sidewalk.

FlynnMacCallister

For those of you who don't believe our dog laws - yes, dogs are allowed off lead where I live. On the section of beach in question, the restrictions are seasonal, and we're out of season atm. And if I were to only let my dogs off in a "dog park", well they wouldn't go off lead, as we don't have them round here! As for keeping a dog on lead "for their good", well I can tell you I know a lot of dogs whose quality of life would be greatly reduced by not having the freedom that being off-lead enables - it is after all a natural state of being, whereas being on a lead is not (not saying that it's detrimental to dogs that need to stay on lead for whatever reason, shelter canine behaviourist by trade here so I've worked with a lot of dogs that stay on for varying reasons), which leads me to:

I completely agree that if somebody else has their dog on lead that off-lead dogs should be put on, but that's a whole different conversation (again, it's a question of etiquette for sure!) I always bring my dogs in and lead them up if there are other on-lead dogs, or to hang onto them whilsts cyclists pass.

In this case the guy was going so fast I didn't have a chance to do that, so I fail to see what else I could have done. I am of course thankful that not only is my dog ok, but that a "real" accident wasn't caused by the incident. I'm not bashing cyclists (though it seems some here ARE bashing dog owners!), just rudeness / lack of etiquette, I hope I conveyed that.

I don't doubt it, but whoever came up with it is daft. Bikes and dogs really seriously don't mix. It should be either an off-leash zone, or a shared pedestrian-cycle zone, not both. >.<

Masterchef2000

I read a couple of the replies and wanted to add that I have lived in Germany and am now in the UK and have never had a problem with anyone on bikes. They ride everywhere over here. I don't know where everyone lives that has such problems but in Europe, it seems to be just fine to me. I really respect how courteous everyone is on both sides and will appreciate it even more when my children and I are out biking. That said, to run over any living creature when you are biking and not stop (if it is safe to stop and out of traffic) is just cold to me.

Masterchef2000

I don't doubt it, but whoever came up with it is daft. Bikes and dogs really seriously don't mix. It should be either an off-leash zone, or a shared pedestrian-cycle zone, not both. >.<

My one dog (jack russell/ rat terrier) has just gotten over wanting to bark and try and chase cars while still on lead. We can't break her of her habit for runners and bikers. She just loves things that move fast. My other dog though (cocker spaniel) could care less. However, we never let them off lead unless it's safe to do so. But many of the Europeans let their dogs off lead without a single problem. Many of them ride their bikes with their dogs attached to the bike. Apparently whatever classes they give over here need to reach other parts of the world. I've never seen so many dogs off lead with no problems before I came over here. I quite enjoy it. :-)

kaned_ferret

I don't doubt it, but whoever came up with it is daft. Bikes and dogs really seriously don't mix. It should be either an off-leash zone, or a shared pedestrian-cycle zone, not both. >.<

Agreed on that! The route actually banned cycles until fairly recently, and now they're only supposed to be off season in that area - it's a matter of hot debate in the local community as we speak lol!

Ant_M76

Now, I agree, some cyclists are fine, but those a-holes who weave all through traffic

Not sure why moving through traffic (if safe to do so) would make a cyclist an 'a-hole'.


Back to the OP

Problems always arise on shared use paths. Cyclists are better off sticking to roads or proper off-road trails. Hope the dog recovers.

Vegetablearian

I cycle for leisure and I ride to my nanas house 8 miles away,

In the UK I am supposed to always ride on the road but If there are no people on the pavement I ride on there as its safer for me and easier for the cars , on a narrow road with a 60mph speed limit with sort of blind bends passing a cyclist is dangerous for both parties (I drive too).

However if there was a familiy with push chairs on the path id move onto the road with plenty of notice or stop cycling until they pass completely if it were a single person and the path was wide enough for both of us id slow right down to walking pace. In a housing estate or quiet roads I ride always on the road as its much smoother.

However if I am in a cycle lane or on a designated cycle path I do not slow down and I expect pedestrians to move out of my way and for cars to respect me as its a cycle lane! (did you know in the netherlands its illegal for a pedestrian to use a walk lane and for a pedestrian to use a cycle lane)

I also used to have a dog and she was always on lead around bikes

mmapags

Hearing everyone's cycle rage (joke!) actually makes me feel very thankful that the majority of riders in my area are NOT like the guy who ran my little bean over! That's probably why I have been taken so by surprise, because usually cyclists in the area slow for dogs and pedestrians (they're riding on a beach promenade in a holiday town after all!) and they also usually smile, say hello, and thankyou when we move to one side.

As for the physics of staying on a bike having ridden over a dog - have you never ridden up onto a raised kerb? or over a speedhump? she's only little, it's perfectly doable

I think really my gripe is with lack of etiquette and politeness in this case, it's nothing to do with cycle hate! I'm always a very patient driver behind bikes, and I am sure I pee off drivers behind me when I won't overtake a bike on a road - unless I can give them a wide berth, there's no way I'd risk it, so everyone behind me can wait

I had my maiden outing today on my borrowed bike, and it was a very enjoyable way to ride into town and back - I just have to get used to the whole braking thing without falling off at junctions! :blushing:

Thanks for that balanced perspective! I am a new cyclist so this thread has been a great perspective. I've been a runner, walker and dog walker for some time and I'd like to say that there is no one group that has a monopoly on being inconsiderate in MUPs. There is a great 5 mile loop that I run at Valley Forge National Park and while occaisionally I've been suprised by a rude cyclist, for the most part they've been great. Call out when they are passing me and such. I keep to the right and sometimes I'll get started by one calling out "passing onleft" or when they whiz by me but that because I'm listening to jazz in my headphones and lost in my own moment! LOL When running, I ahve come across things like people taking the whole width of the path for walking 3 abreast or stopping in the middle for a conversation and blocking the whole path. I've even come up behind a twosome talking away and let them know I was passing on their left and had them inadvertantly jump right into me or my way. When I am passing a walker or another slower runner, I always look behind me to see if a cyclist is coming as I don't want to pull out to pass and creat an unsafe situation for either them or me.

Bottom line for me, and this is not directed at the OP or anyone else's post but is based on my personal experience, it seems that some people feel like etiquette is something the other guy should be doing and doesn't apply to them!

Azdak

Following a fairly upsetting incident this evening I thought I would get people's opinions on cycling/pedestrian etiquette. I was doing my c25k session on the beach promenade, and a cyclist, going very fast, manages to run my dog over. He just kept going. Luckily she seems ok, but it has gotten a bee in my bonnet. I believe cyclists are now allowed to use the promenade, but this is fairly recent - they were originally banned (and the signs are still up!) Afaik, cycling etiquette should be to be courteous and give way to pedestrians, including children and dogs. Dogs are allowed to be off lead there by the way.

Now I'm in no way against bikes, most we come across are "dog savvy" and will slow when they see dogs. This guy was going fast, ran her over and kept going! In my opinion, if you want to ride as fast as a normal car would drive, you should be using the roads.

Am I being unreasonable? I just think if you're going to ride along such an area, you should maintain a slow speed. It's a popular beach that at this time of year is starting to fill with kids, and families with dogs wanting to enjoy evening walks. The area has been a matter of local debate as to whether it will become a recognised cycle route, but now sadly I'm erring on the side of being against it if the council don't also consider a speed limit to be enforced.

I'm planning on taking up cycling myself, and hope that my experiences as both a driver, and a pedestrian dog owner will make me a courteous rider!

Putting a bike lane in an area where dogs are allowed off leash is insane. If that is the case, then it is NOT a training area for bikes, but a recreational path, in which the speed of the cyclists should not exceed 7-8 mph. The rule should be enforced.

Any serious cyclist would know better than to even go there, but there are narcissists and jerks in every group.

Mixed-use paths are usually not suitable for training paths. Someone who is training for a triathlon or other serious endeavor should be on the roads. Otherwise, you have to know the area and know when you can train and when you can't. I don't ride that much anymore, but in my area there is a network of bicycle paths (combo of asphalt and crushed rock) made from an old railroad right-of-way. The path is a minimum 8' wide. It goes through towns, but also through a number of forest preserves as well. The loop I used to ride was 42 miles long. It was a fantastic refuge in an urban area. Because of the quality of the road, the length of the trail, and the relative remoteness of some of the stretches of trail, it was suitable for more serious training.

However, I knew that there were certain stretches that went directly through parks in towns by a river, and, esp on weekends, those stretches would be packed with kids, walkers, parents with strollers, dogs, etc. I had a choice--either get out and ride at 6 am when no one was around, or accept that when you hit those stretches of path, you were not going to be able to continue at your training pace. Pretty simple. For me, the enjoyment of the other 40 miles more than made up for having to "gear down" and weave through the other two.

Azdak

Cycling etiquette made simple:

1) Always ride in designated cycle lanes where available. At other times, ride on the roads in single file, close to the edge of the road to avoid obstructing other vehicles as much as possible. Ride on pathways only when no cycle lane is available or if the road conditions are deemed to be too dangerous.
2) Be aware of your surroundings and other road/path users. Ride at a speed appropriate to your surroundings and other traffic, give way to pedestrians and if you must travel several people abreast, ensure that you quickly move into the side of the road in single file if a vehicle approaches from behind.
3) Make yourself as visible and obvious as possible to other road/path users. This includes but is not limited to: wearing hi-vis clothing, epecially at night and in poor visibility conditiond, reflectors and front and rear lights at night or in poor visibility, and use of bells/whistles/calls to alert your presence to others. Signal when maneuvering and don't sneak up on people.
4) Obey the highway code, which is applicable to ALL road users, not just motorized vehicles. And yes, this means you have to stop at red lights.
5) If you run over a dog, be nice and stop to apologise to the owner.


Pedestrian etiquette made simple:

1) Walk on paths designated for pedestrians and keep to the side. If walking a dog, keep them on a short leash (or close at heel) to ensure they do not obstruct the path.
2) Be aware of other path-users including runners, cyclists, skaters etc. Make sure that you leave enough room for them to pass you easily without them giving you a fright. Walk in single file or make sure to move out of the way if cyclists/runners want to get by.
3) Do not walk in cycle lanes.
4) Pick up your dog poop.

My only disagreement is that cyclists should NOT ride close to the edge of the road. That is dangerous for several reasons:

1. You are less visible--both to traffic behind you and traffic from the side.

2. If you are in an urban area, trying to weave around parked cars is dangerous.

3. You are more exposed to trash, gravel, broken glass, debris, etc, that tends to collect by the side of the road.

4. It encourages drivers to both not take you seriously and to try to pass you WITHIN the lane, which is also unsafe.

When on the road, cyclists should ride on a line about 3' from the edge of the road (or 1/3 of the lane width). Riding a consistent line makes you more visible and predictable. You should ride far enough out that a car cannot pass you without changing lanes (on a 4 lane road) or passing like it would any other car on a two-lane road. If there is only one car, and it is safe to do so, you can pull over and signal them to pass, but it should be clear that you are ALLOWING them to do so as a courtesy.

At least in Illinois, cyclists are legally entitled to 3' of the road lane.

namenumber

mmapags

What's up with the hating on cycling? Do you really feel this is helpful?

namenumber

What's up with the hating on cycling? Do you really feel this is helpful?

Of all the cyclists I've ever encountered, 95% of them disobey basic traffic laws (i.e. stop signs, turn signals). When they stop acting like rules don't apply to them, I'll change my opinion.

heybales

Of all the cyclists I've ever encountered, 95% of them disobey basic traffic laws (i.e. stop signs, turn signals). When they stop acting like rules don't apply to them, I'll change my opinion.

I would say a good 95% of drivers disobey traffic laws too, to some extent or another. Turning on red when sign or stop light says not too, speeding way over limit, diving across 3 lanes and interfering with traffic to get the exit or turn lane they weren't paying attention to coming up, not stopping at stop signs if not convenient, making illegal U-turns, turning from a non-turn lane because they weren't where they needed to be, shall I go on?

Sadly you never see the cyclists on the back roads that chose those roads to get out of traffic.

And my comments above are from the driving perspective, not cycling perspective. After past comments like this I've kept tabs for 2 whole days driving in traffic how many cars I could count that were moving and breaking laws. I didn't count cars lined up at a red light, even though they didn't get a chance to break laws in my view yet. It was easier to count ones not breaking laws.

kaned_ferret

What's up with the hating on cycling? Do you really feel this is helpful?

It IS funny though - the meme could be used with any picture... Giving way at junctions? using only one lane? E-co-nom-ic fuel use? These things do not apply to us chosen ones (queue picture of a 4x4 driver - and yes, I am one of those, doesn't mean I suddenly think there's 4x4 hate going on!)

I don't want this thread to be about cycle hate, just about rudeness / lack of etiquette peeve :flowerforyou:

mmapags

What's up with the hating on cycling? Do you really feel this is helpful?

Of all the cyclists I've ever encountered, 95% of them disobey basic traffic laws (i.e. stop signs, turn signals). When they stop acting like rules don't apply to them, I'll change my opinion.

Of all the people who make blanket statments condeming a whole group I've ever encountered 95% of them are ignorant of the real facts. When they stop displaying thier ignorance, I'll change my opinion.

mmapags

I don't want this thread to be about cycle hate, just about rudeness / lack of etiquette peeve :flowerforyou:

I perfectly understood and apprecaited your intention and agree with you! There are rude cyclist....and runners....and drivers and on and on. I thought you've taken a balanced approach throughout. I think the attitude displayed by the poster of the photo and thier subsequent post reflects poor judgement at best and ignorance at worst! Hope puppy is doing better.:flowerforyou:

Elizabeth_C34

That really sucks about your dog! I hope he's alright!

I would love to bike more in the city here, but I'm not too keen on it. There've been numerous incidents where cyclists have been killed on the road into my office this year (3 in the last 12 months). One of which was killed by a hit-and-run drunk driver. I almost killed someone driving to my office last week because he swerved into my lane without looking to pass another cyclist. I had to pull my emergency brake to avoid killing him. It really scared me and shook me up. I wasn't even speeding or doing anything wrong. He just yanked right into my lane about 30 feet ahead of me. I have a 4500 lb SUV that doesn't stop on a dime unfortunately. Thankfully most of the cyclists along that road are very good about staying in the bike lane and not scaring me to death, but it's unnerving to see that.

To those of you who cycle, please stay out of the vehicle lanes as much as possible. We can't always see you especially if you're on a bend, and we can't stop as easily as you can even if we're not speeding.

I do enjoy cycling in parks though where I can not be around traffic.

IronmanPanda

What's up with the hating on cycling? Do you really feel this is helpful?

Of all the cyclists I've ever encountered, 95% of them disobey basic traffic laws (i.e. stop signs, turn signals). When they stop acting like rules don't apply to them, I'll change my opinion.

I've found that 95% of cyclists I know obey all traffic laws and because I know more cyclists than you your theory in invalid.

When drivers stop acting like they own the roads maybe we'll see a change for the better.

SueGremlin

And here we have the crux of the problem. People are territorial about the road, bike or car. Until that changes, it will be too dangerous to cycle, IMO. So my bike sits and collects dust.
It is much safer in Europe because drivers respect cyclists and vice versa. Why isn't it the same in the US?

I find this very sad.

Elizabeth_C34

And here we have the crux of the problem. People are territorial about the road, bike or car. Until that changes, it will be too dangerous to cycle, IMO. So my bike sits and collects dust.
It is much safer in Europe because drivers respect cyclists and vice versa. Why isn't it the same in the US?

I find this very sad.

I find it sad too. I wish the US had more bike lanes on major roads to make it safer for cyclists and less stressful for drivers who worry about accidentally hurting a cyclist.

heybales

What's up with the hating on cycling? Do you really feel this is helpful?

Of all the cyclists I've ever encountered, 95% of them disobey basic traffic laws (i.e. stop signs, turn signals). When they stop acting like rules don't apply to them, I'll change my opinion.

I've found that 95% of cyclists I know obey all traffic laws and because I know more cyclists than you your theory in invalid.

When drivers stop acting like they own the roads maybe we'll see a change for the better.

Very true. Sadly the 5% out breaking the laws are also out more often. I know I've had some like that tell me directly it's because of the drivers not obeying either.

When we are coming up to a 4 way stop intersection, and watching all the cars up their blow through with rolling stops if even that much, it's hard to picture why the cyclist doing the exact same thing would be seen as worse.

So they unfairly skew the observations of many.

Elizabeth_C34

When we are coming up to a 4 way stop intersection, and watching all the cars up their blow through with rolling stops if even that much, it's hard to picture why the cyclist doing the exact same thing would be seen as worse.

The sad fact is that in a situation where a cyclist does it, drivers are not expecting it and often don't see it since cyclists are much smaller than cars, and when that happens, there's a very real possibility of an accident. Any accident involving a <50 lb bike and a person vs. a vehicle is going to end very badly for the cyclist. I deal with a lot of cyclists on the way to work every day, and I know to look for them, but not everyone does. In the end, the cyclist needs to be more careful than the driver simply because of physics and that whole "playing chicken with something bigger than you" problem. Thankfully, most cyclists on the road into my work are great. There's a designated bike lane that is very wide, and most stay in there and obey the traffic laws. It's just the few that make it very stressful for me as a driver.

I am an excellent driver, but there have been times that I've almost run over people on the road on bikes because they either pulled out in front of me without looking or did something stupid (failed to stop at a red light when I was turning, etc.). It's not easy to stop a vehicle traveling at 30-40 mph no matter how big. I have no interest in killing someone, and I just wish that both drivers and cyclists would be more careful.

heybales

When we are coming up to a 4 way stop intersection, and watching all the cars up their blow through with rolling stops if even that much, it's hard to picture why the cyclist doing the exact same thing would be seen as worse.

The sad fact is that in a situation where a cyclist does it, drivers are not expecting it and often don't see it since cyclists are much smaller than cars, and when that happens, there's a very real possibility of an accident. Any accident involving a <50 lb bike and a person vs. a vehicle is going to end very badly for the cyclist. I deal with a lot of cyclists on the way to work every day, and I know to look for them, but not everyone does. In the end, the cyclist needs to be more careful than the driver simply because of physics and that whole "playing chicken with something bigger than you" problem.

I am an excellent driver, but there have been times that I've almost run over people on the road on bikes because they either pulled out in front of me without looking or did something stupid (failed to stop at a red light when I was turning, etc.). I have no interest in killing someone, and I just wish that both drivers and cyclists would be more careful.

Very true, and those that are riding like they own the road, usually don't look around and confirm things.

I always get eye contact all the time for like the intersection scenario, and I don't blow through, I'll do rolling stop just as much as everyone else is doing, and during my turn. I figure they are all used to this and want it, I'll play along.
I also make my intentions very obvious, if I'm at the beginning of a line of cars because I was there first, I'm still to the side, and as I cross the intersection, I go slow and to the side, usually obvious to that line of cars I'm letting them go first. I figure it does no good me in front riding waiting for them all to try to get around me. Get it over with in 15-20 seconds, then I can hammer it with no traffic waiting on me.