Dropping the "Eat Less" mentality.

k0nfyo0zed

I've recently run into this issue.

Last year, I followed the "Eat less!" program, consuming 1400-1600 calories per day... at 300 pounds, while working retail. I did not exercise very frequently. I thought it worked wonders! I lost 50 pounds in 5 months!

Then BAM! brick wall for several months. I got discouraged and basically gave up over a few months and gained back 30 of those pounds.

Now that I'm back on track food wise, and a little wiser about BMR/TDEE and the benefits of strength training, I'm having a hard time dropping that mentality.

I work out regularly, to the tune of 4-5 times per week, including cardio (elliptical, treadmill, spin bike, home DVDs) and strength training (combination of weights, machines, a body weight exercises). According to my HRM I am burning 3500-4000 calories per week, from time in the gym alone. My calories on here, which I recently changed after a day with my HRM to "lightly active" @ 2 pounds per week, and that puts me at 1730. However, my BMR here is 2025 (which I know is supposed to be the "floor"), and TDEE calculations put me at 2780 when I put in "lightly active" - I work at home, so I don't walk around as much as when I was in retail.

Last month I was eating around 1800 calories (sedentary, 1.5lb per week)... but not eating back very many of my exercise calories. I didn't have my HRM til the end of the month and wasn't 100% sure how accurate the numbers were on MFP (they are high), also I tend to work out late in the evening (that's when it fits into mine and my husband's schedule) and I don't want to over-eat my workout.

I know the "eat back your exercise calories" is a hot debate on here, and logically I side with the "yes, eat them back. calories are fuel" crowd... though as a fat person wanting to be not-fat ASAP instincts and conditioning are telling me EAT LESS. As are several people around me. 1800 calories is below my BMR, so I know I don't want my net calories to be any less than that, which means extra PB on my celery and cheese on my sandwiches again (YAY).. But how do I get past the "Eating more is what made me fat, eating less will make me thin!" part of my brain?

Example: Today I am at 1630 calories consumed and while I would LOVE to eat more, my brain is telling me THAT IS BAD. This is a typical day, though we are not going to the gym tonight, I have gone to the gym and burned 700-1000 calories (according to my HRM) on the same amount, and can't convince my inner thin chick that it's okay to eat a 2nd piece of chicken at dinner on days I go to the gym. Last month I lost like I wanted. 1.5lb every 2 weeks (6 pounds) and lost 8 inches overall. For March? 1 inch over all, no pounds.

I am not afraid of gaining a little bit more before I start losing, and I am most definitely not one of those that would have a hard time eating more. I love nuts, cheese, greek yogurt, and peanut butter and can include them in just about anything I eat. I have not tried any type of protein powder, though that is a thought... I just don't know what's good.

Lastly, the end of this novel, since I am so over weight and my body can theoretically endure a much higher deficit because of the high amount of fat, how does that play into the eating at or below BMR problem?

Any experience with this? Words of wisdom, etc?

gemiwing

Hi

I'm still fat and if I drop below a 15% deficit from my TDEE - my weight loss stalls like my first car. Completely and with great fanfare.


There is a general idea that if you are fat you somehow will magically pull all your needed calories from your fat. Well, problem being it takes a good working furnace to burn fuel. It also, still, takes fuel to burn fuel. Can't burn logs without lighting some kindling first.

I battle every day with this too. It's hard - even when I see results- to not starve myself and fall back into that 'eat less move more' idea. "Eat less move more' is fine to use when you're talking about someone who is still over eating but once that person starts to starvation diet- saying 'eat less move more' is a fallacy and should be stopped.

Eat well and exercise freely would be a better choice perhaps?

HiKaren

I don't really have any words of wisdom. But I get this mentality, which I'm facing too. I'm still amazed that this is the way it works. It goes against everything I was taught for so long. All I know is, I upped my calories too. The first month I gained 2 lbs, second month (I just weighed in today) I lost a lb. Whoooh. Yeah. Going in the right direction. Who'd da think.... Its eat to lose. Not starve to lose. Have you heard of the "Metabolism Repair Mode" group? You can find them in the group search, using that phrase. They really help to support our new way of thinking. Its not good to eat way less food to lose. We need those calories actually to lose.

k0nfyo0zed

I am just having a really hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of eating more. I have gotten so used to going to bed with my stomach rumbling and not being satisfied with the tiny, bland breakfast waiting for me. I love egg whites. In salads. But I've been getting sick of 2 egg whites or plain oatmeal waiting for me in the morning.

gemiwing

It takes time and I'm still working on it. There are some threads on MFP that help me.

Two of them are-
www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/506349-women-who-eat-more-than-1800-calories-a-day?

and

www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/531086-before-and-after-pics-no-starvation?

Dunno if you've seen them yet or not. I look at them all the time.

k0nfyo0zed

I have seen the "more than 1800 calories thread. I have read through it (I think I posted in it, because I thought I was doing good eating 1800 calories...) and wistfully dreamed of the day when I could eat 2000+ calories again...

I'm going to try this "crazy" eat more, weigh less idea... add if it doesn't work, I will have just gained back a few pounds that I've been gaining and losing for the last several weeks and won't be any worse off.

I told my husband to remind me that I need to re-teach my body that food is not evil, if I see gains at first. I will admit to feeling like a kid at Christmas knowing that I can eat more than a bite of two of cheese and peanut butter and nuts now.

nickyrobinson

A couple of thoughts that might help:

- As long as you are eating below your TDEE, you will lose weight. Even if it's only 100 calories less, that's a pound a month.

- Losing weight is not a sprint. Slow and steady wins, because you are more likely to keep it off in the long run.

Good luck!

VAMommyAgain

I love that you're totally open to this awesome idea! Personally I use a BodyMedia Fit so I know exactly how many calories I'm burning in a 24 hour period. I aim for a 300-600 calorie deficit per day (although I find I lose faster with a smaller deficit believe it or not!)....so what that equates to is that I average 2300 cals/day:bigsmile: I run and lift heavy weights. I NEVER eat plain oatmeal...I add banana, vanilla, cinnamon, chia seeds, a little brown sugar and walnuts to my steel cut oats....yum! My salads have lots of veggies, plus nuts, seeds and real salad dressing! I even indulge my nutella addiction daily And I NEVER go to bed starving!! I just watched the documentary Hungry For Change and I loved that they recommend starting by ADDING the good stuff...we should never feel deprived. Feel free to friend me if you want to be able to see my diary (I don't think it's public but maybe).

Elizabeth_C34

I am just having a really hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of eating more. I have gotten so used to going to bed with my stomach rumbling and not being satisfied with the tiny, bland breakfast waiting for me. I love egg whites. In salads. But I've been getting sick of 2 egg whites or plain oatmeal waiting for me in the morning.

You should eat more. I know it's hard to get your head around, but it really does work. I was stuck at 190 for 2 months last year because I was only eating 1200 calories and not eating my exercise calories. I started eating more and dropped 6 lbs in 1 week. It's been a slow steady 0.5-1 lb loss per week since.

You can do so much with breakfast food. Try shaking it up a bit. Don't just do the egg whites but a whole egg and scramble with veggies (fresh tomatoes, green peppers, etc.). Healthy food does not have to be bland or boring. It might be time to spend a little time in your kitchen and shake up your meals a bit. Start adding fresh tomatoes to your food and herbs. You can add all kinds of salt-free spices as well. McCormick has a whole line of really good salt-free seasonings out.

amsparky

Bumping for future reminders...

Lolli1986

I don't know... I prefer the 'eat like the person you will soon be' mentality. I try to eat at what would basically be maintenance for me once I've lost the weight, thereby creating a clear and reasonable deficit now. Eating less than what I would eat in the future definitely makes NO sense to me, but eating more doesn't really either.

However... I only have about 25lb to lose. Things might be different for those who have more to lose.

Out of curiosity, why not find out what your BMR/TDEE are likely to be at your goal weight?

myak623

If you are using MFP calculations, then you would want to eat back exercise calories.

You can calculate your own TDEE which is BMR multiplied by one of the following activity levels:

1.2 = Sedentary (Little or no exercise + desk job)
1.3-1.4 = Lightly Active (Little daily activity & light exercise 1-3 days a week)
1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately active daily life & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)
1.7-1.8 = Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise or sports 6-7 days a week)
1.9-2.2 = Extremely Active (Hard daily exercise or sports and physical job)

If you do that, then you are already factoring in daily activity and would only eat enough so that you net 200 or so calories above BMR. Another thing you didn't mention is macros, carbs/protein/fat. Use a 40/30/30 ratio with protein and fat being a minimum number not a maximum number.

mixedfeelings

A bit of a story but;

I used to be overweight, in my early twenties I lost the weight but became obsessive, I was eating around 700-1000 calories after a couple of years like this and having lost all energy I started gaining, I still tried to cling on to eating less but this made me up and down, a few days at 700 then getting upset that I was still gaining and then eating more. I ended up gaining more than I lost which is close to 100lbs.

I went to the doctor they suggested low calories, I said I eat low calories I got shrugs as he says he didn't know what to suggest as he eats like a pig, my boyfriend was there to say "no she does eat very little", feeling very unsure of myself and like I had a problem I decided to start monitoring everything I ate, I used to use another site but it was a bit rubbish for logging food, it didn't have that much on, I found this site looking for the nutritional values of light mozzarella I believe and I've never gone back.

The first thing I realised was that I didn't realise how little I was eating although quite a few of my calories came from sugar in tea as I drank an awful lot of it. I wasn't sure about the whole eating back the exercise calories thing even though it made sense I was really worried about eating more calories as to me I was actually scared of how it looks, a big girl eating loads of food - shouldn't she be eating less? In the last 6 weeks I have upped my calories when I exercise, I use a hrm so I feel more confident about the calories I'm burning.

Since then I will have lost about 9lbs. I know I'm a long way from being normal again as I've made such a mess of my diet for over 5 years so I don't expect a consistent loss but I'm quite happy that I'm eating more, exercising more - because I have the energy and losing weight. I still find it hard to get my head round but I found once I started seeing food as the enemy and excepting I could eat what I like within portion I wasn't so scared to eat something in fear of punishing myself.

k0nfyo0zed

thank you all for your responses. today my husband and i celebrated the fact that i am now 'allowed' to eat whole eggs with omelets (with cheese, onion slivers, green peppers, garlic, and a little bit of maple sausage) and peanut butter toast for brunch after church.

i was excited at the store. some things that ended up in my cart: full fat greek yogurt, cashews, avacado, eggplant, zucchini, bananas, green peppers, protein powder and a new blender. along with the little mini cinnabon bagels that are 70 calories apiece and with a little bit of cream cheese are a half way decent substitute for the real thing. they are my victory dance

i took weight and measurements today, and because of the potential gain as my body starts realizing that i am willing to fuel it and it doesn't have to stash a reserve of fat... i will hold off on weighing again for a while, since i know it will probably go up.

i've heard this method, getting your deficit from activity alone (rather than a deficit created simply by ingesting less) could take some time to work as the body adjusts. i told my husband i will give it 4 months... that will be up until we move to texas.

i never really thought it was healthy to impose a double-dose of deficit on your body first through a strict calorie cut, and then by exercising and using more. that just seems like trying to drive 500 miles on 5 gallons of gas. eating normally and exercising more makes more sense

and to those who think "isn't eating more how you got fat in the first place?"... i'm thinking i got fat in the first place cause i ate a lot of JUNK (seriously, fast food at least 3x per week on the way home from work cause i was tired), and didn't exercise at all. now i'm eating healthy (at least healthier - i've at least 100% cut out fast food, fried food, and sugary drinks) and working my tail off in the gym. i'll be a guinea pig for my friends who think i'm crazy, i'm okay with that.

gemiwing

thank you all for your responses. today my husband and i celebrated the fact that i am now 'allowed' to eat whole eggs with omelets (with cheese, onion slivers, green peppers, garlic, and a little bit of maple sausage) and peanut butter toast for brunch after church.

i was excited at the store. some things that ended up in my cart: full fat greek yogurt, cashews, avacado, eggplant, zucchini, bananas, green peppers, protein powder and a new blender. along with the little mini cinnabon bagels that are 70 calories apiece and with a little bit of cream cheese are a half way decent substitute for the real thing. they are my victory dance

and to those who think "isn't eating more how you got fat in the first place?"... i'm thinking i got fat in the first place cause i ate a lot of JUNK (seriously, fast food at least 3x per week on the way home from work cause i was tired), and didn't exercise at all. now i'm eating healthy (at least healthier - i've at least 100% cut out fast food, fried food, and sugary drinks) and working my tail off in the gym. i'll be a guinea pig for my friends who think i'm crazy, i'm okay with that.

congrats! I remember my first grocery trip after I realized I could eat real food again! Somehow we think it's black or white when the gray area is the best place. Hope you enjoyed your breakfast and have a great day eating!!

I did a tally of how I used to eat before the 'VLCD Phase' and I was eating 4500 cals a day and gained about half a pound a week. So not only did I eat an obscene amount of food- I didn't even gain weight that fast on it. So that, with recent healthy loss, tells me that eating 2500 a day is just fine I was really glad i did that- enter in what a real day was like for me before. Gave me an eye-opener!