Protein/carbs intake for muscle gain and weight loss

tigersword

I'm going with 40 protein/30 carbs/30 fat

You should be eating/drinking 30-50 grams of protein within 30-45 minutes of finishing each work out not per day. The more protein you eat the more fat you will burn and the more muscle you will gain. Also I dont know how much you weigh but from 213 lbs down to 204 lbs I ate 60 grams of fat per day.

Timing is irrelevant. There is a 24 hour window after a workout for recovery. All you have to do is meet your daily goals. Meal timing, and "recovery meals" are both myths.

albinogorilla

You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.

It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.

The 40/30/30 rule or the 40/40/20 are pointless if you're not eating at the right caloric intake.

Figure out your maintenance (TDEE) and eat under 20-25% that and you'll lose fat for sure - the rules are there so you use them while also lifting weights so you DON'T lose muscle mass while you're shedding the fat.

Surely if I adhere to the app I should be having the correct calorific intake>?

Otherwise there's no point in it

there is plenty of room for human error, in inputting food and portions, as well as over valuing exercise................

BaseToThePlace

You need fat in your diet to be healthy. You want at least 50-60 grams a day...minimum.

It's telling me with the ratios I've put in to have 43g fat per day. 40/40/20 is something I was recommended on another forum.

I should add that losing fat is more important to me just now than putting on muscle, far more important. Conversely, I understand that putting on muscle increases your metabolism and helps lose fat.

I want this APP to help me lose fat first and foremost, so far it's failing.

The 40/30/30 rule or the 40/40/20 are pointless if you're not eating at the right caloric intake.

Figure out your maintenance (TDEE) and eat under 20-25% that and you'll lose fat for sure - the rules are there so you use them while also lifting weights so you DON'T lose muscle mass while you're shedding the fat.

Surely if I adhere to the app I should be having the correct calorific intake>?

Otherwise there's no point in it

It is an excellent method of tracking calories and nutrients, but when it comes to working out calories, it is just a fancy calculator that deducts 500-1000 from your sedentary TDEE, whilst ignoring your BMR.

I've had more success after working out TDEE and deducting the 20% deficit from that, than I did eating at the 1200 set by MFP.

According to fitness frog my TDEE is 3990.

Going by what you suggest there, I would have to eat well over 3000 calories, which I honestly would struggle to do and really wouldn't want to do.

To give you an idea, today according to MFP (and I've been careful to add every little thing accurately) I have had 1823 calories in total (It's nearly midnight here and I won't be having anything more of calorific content, just water). Yesterday I had 2517 (that is because I had a massive slip and ate quite a bit of ice cream - that's like a once in a year thing). The day before I had 1735.

The only explanation must be that I'm putting myself into starvation mode or lowering my metabolism to the point I can't lose weight. BUT I SHOULD still be losing weight. I gave up drinking alcohol regularly months ago, I have been eating sensibly for months and months and exercising (weights and cardio) multiple times a week (I even was doing HIIT at one point which I was managing fine but decided that the sheer size of me (6ft 3 or 6 ft 4 and about 276 lb) might damage my treadmill.

Please help because I'm close to giving up on this. I may as well just eat and drink what the hell I want, I'd still look exactly the same.

BaseToThePlace

can anyone help with the above?

Mindmovesbody

Bump for later

Ripken818836701

I'm going with 40 protein/30 carbs/30 fat

You should be eating/drinking 30-50 grams of protein within 30-45 minutes of finishing each work out not per day. The more protein you eat the more fat you will burn and the more muscle you will gain. Also I dont know how much you weigh but from 213 lbs down to 204 lbs I ate 60 grams of fat per day.

Timing is irrelevant. There is a 24 hour window after a workout for recovery. All you have to do is meet your daily goals. Meal timing, and "recovery meals" are both myths.

With the exception of drinking a sports drink mixed BCAA's prior too and during my workouts and drinking a protein shake right after my workouts I dont have the luxury to time my meals. But according to the following article as an example, it includes the daily meal plan for the players of the NY. Jets and was implemented by the teams Nutritionist Dr. Tom Bilella C.C.N. (Dr. Tom Bilella is an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training).
and is very detailed down to what and how his players eat (It varies depending on the individual player) and down to the minute of when they should eat . The arcticle is located on page 80 of Muscle & Fitness NFL Training Issue called """""""" Jets Fuel, New York Jets Nutrtionist Dr. Tom Bilella, C.C.N. Shows You How To Eat For Maximum Performance."""" """"""Breakfast first thing in the morning then the players eat a meal every 2-3 hours (depending on the player) throughout the day, even on day days they do not train, to keep the body from going into a catabolic state. While post-workouts is the anabolic phase, the "growth phase" spans from workout to workout., and the goal is to maintain an anabolic environment by getting frequent feedings during the day, Bilella says, "One of the big buzzwords in sports nutrition is nutrient timing- staying in an anabolic state, whether that be pre-exercise, during,after or at other times of the day."""""

Now I apologize but Im gonna have to go with the opinion of an actual Dr. that is also an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training.
And by the way, in charge of the diets of each and every player on the NY. Jets (some of the best athletes in the world and worth millions of dollars) than your opinion. But like I said I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

AeolianHarp

(1) I have been told that when lifting and looking to maximise muscle gain and fat loss you need to be having a lot more protein and less carbs than what myfitnesspal recommends.

(2) I've been told to try 40/40/20 or 40/30/30, any thoughts?

(3) PSS - My actual weight is irrelevant I just have a lot of fat I want to shift but can't.

I've broken it down in to numbers to make it more organized.

(1) Don't worry about maximizing muscle gain while trying to lose fat. Just focus on getting down the fat. Whether muscle gains come or not can become an arduous task, one that can lead to spinning of one's wheels. If you want any of hope of gaining muscle, do not go on a severe caloric deficit.

(2) Percentages are pretty awful. Calculate via minimums to ensure that you're at least hitting minimum requirements of everything. From there, you would allocate the rest of your calories how you would like.

For example, I am 152lbs. I use the minimum of 1g/lb of LBM but since I have no clue what my LBM is I then settle for 1g/lb (you can settle for Alan Aragon's recommendation of 1g/lb of target bodyweight). From there, the minimum fat intake is 0.25-0.33g/lb (it's better to err on the higher side), so I eat a minimum of 50g a day MINIMUM. From there, I spread the rest of my 1900 calories how I want. I end up allocating around 150g to carbs and add around another 20g to fat.

Simple. Forget about percentages. They end up being restrictive. You don't need 40% of your calories from protein, especially if you're overweight. I might err on the side of safety if you were lean(er) since protein becomes far more important the leaner you get. If you're overweight, you have the advantage of using your abundant fat stores to help restore muscle tissue and the like.

(3) If you have a lot of fat to lose then I suggest you don't worry about things you can't control (like gaining muscle on a cut) and focus on losing fat. You can/could gain muscle but I wouldn't try and force it. It will either happen or it won't. Trying to recomposition can lead you to making very little progress, which is pointless.

Fat isn't always a bad thing, in general saturated fats are bad fats that you should avoid because cholesterol problems and other heart disease. Unsaturated fats are good for you but there are many types of both.

This is not true. There's nothing particularly wrong with saturated fats and it has received a bad reputation because of ****ty epidemiological studies.

Healthy fats are very important in losing bad fat! If you eat fish like salmon, that will make you lean even though it is high in fat. You should strive to have all of your carbs come from vegetables and some fruit, completely deleting grains from your diet as much as possible (although for the first two years or so I still ate some sprouted grains and wild rice blends in moderation). Most people who take in the proper amounts of net calories and exercise with cardio will not lose weight if their carbs are too high.

Fats from beef and pork are just as good and can make you just as lean. Also, removing grains won't make him gain muscle any easier on a cut. All your suggestions are what one would call "broscience."

Have a wee look at this site and set your goals for body recomp. Hope this helps

http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

Not sure how to do links yet but its the IF calculator

Recomping is quite possible but he's mentioned he's quite fat. It's unnecessary for him to incorporate +20/-20 days. Martin Berkhan (inventor of Lean Gains) suggests this method for people who are much leaner (around 10% BF).

With the exception of drinking a sports drink mixed BCAA's prior too and during my workouts and drinking a protein shake right after my workouts I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

You don't need that luxury, so be happy you're not wasting your time and money. BCAAs are pretty moot in light of a decent protein intake.

But according to the following article as an example, it includes the daily meal plan for the players of the NY. Jets and was implemented by the teams Nutritionist Dr. Tom Bilella C.C.N. (Dr. Tom Bilella is an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training).
and is very detailed down to what and how his players eat (It varies depending on the individual player) and down to the minute of when they should eat . The arcticle is located on page 80 of Muscle & Fitness NFL Training Issue called """""""" Jets Fuel, New York Jets Nutrtionist Dr. Tom Bilella, C.C.N. Shows You How To Eat For Maximum Performance."""" """"""Breakfast first thing in the morning then the players eat a meal every 2-3 hours (depending on the player) throughout the day, even on day days they do not train, to keep the body from going into a catabolic state. While post-workouts is the anabolic phase, the "growth phase" spans from workout to workout., and the goal is to maintain an anabolic environment by getting frequent feedings during the day, Bilella says, "One of the big buzzwords in sports nutrition is nutrient timing- staying in an anabolic state, whether that be pre-exercise, during,after or at other times of the day."""""

This whole thing is pointless for your average weightlifter. There is some merit to pre- and post-workout nutrition but not the immediacy of it. No one here needs any of this unless, maybe, they train multiple times a day.

Now I apologize but Im gonna have to go with the opinion of an actual Dr. that is also an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training.

It's unfortunate you said this because this is simply a fallacious line of thinking. To say that truth is connected to one's paper credentials is silly. Lustig used an absurd, ****ty study to support his point that sugar is toxic yet we clearly know his conclusion is stupid because of how he came to it. Just because you're a "Dr." doesn't mean anything. You can be just as stupid as someone who isn't one and make similarly erroneous conclusions.

And by the way, in charge of the diets of each and every player on the NY. Jets (some of the best athletes in the world and worth millions of dollars) than your opinion. But like I said I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

Who gives a ****? Seriously? He is going to get excellent results because he works with elite athletes. You're not an elite athlete. You don't need to eat like them. They need far more complex eating habits because they train multiple times a day.

tigersword

Fun article, but has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Anabolic and catabolic states are controlled by circadian rhythms, not by when you eat. I think the key word in that story was "buzzword," as that's all it is, really just a marketing buzzword. Also, an "appeal to authority" ("I'm going to take his advice because he has more letters after his name,") is not a valid defense. He was writing an article to sell a magazine.

Ripken818836701

Fun article, but has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Anabolic and catabolic states are controlled by circadian rhythms, not by when you eat. I think the key word in that story was "buzzword," as that's all it is, really just a marketing buzzword. Also, an "appeal to authority" ("I'm going to take his advice because he has more letters after his name,") is not a valid defense. He was writing an article to sell a magazine.

Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

AeolianHarp

Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

There's no logic whatsoever to your argument. I can google Dr. Lustig yet we know for a fact that he spreads misinformation. So your point is moot.

tigersword

Fun article, but has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Anabolic and catabolic states are controlled by circadian rhythms, not by when you eat. I think the key word in that story was "buzzword," as that's all it is, really just a marketing buzzword. Also, an "appeal to authority" ("I'm going to take his advice because he has more letters after his name,") is not a valid defense. He was writing an article to sell a magazine.

Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

This is called a logical fallacy for a reason. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I made my point with facts, you made your point with "HE WORKS FOR THE JETS SO HE MUST BE RIGHT." Wolfgang Puck is one of the most respected, skilled chefs in the world, that doesn't mean he can make better buttermilk biscuits than a baker with no formal culinary training.

Ripken818836701

Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

There's no logic whatsoever to your argument. I can google Dr. Lustig yet we know for a fact that he spreads misinformation. So your point is moot.

There is no logic to your argument! Who are you and why should anyone listen to your advice instead of a Dr. who is an expert in numerious fields and is the NY. Jets Nutritionist. Why would it be better for me to listen to an anonymous poster such as yourself on the internet instead of him?

Ripken818836701

Fun article, but has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Anabolic and catabolic states are controlled by circadian rhythms, not by when you eat. I think the key word in that story was "buzzword," as that's all it is, really just a marketing buzzword. Also, an "appeal to authority" ("I'm going to take his advice because he has more letters after his name,") is not a valid defense. He was writing an article to sell a magazine.

Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

This is called a logical fallacy for a reason. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I made my point with facts, you made your point with "HE WORKS FOR THE JETS SO HE MUST BE RIGHT." Wolfgang Puck is one of the most respected, skilled chefs in the world, that doesn't mean he can make better buttermilk biscuits than a baker with no formal culinary training.

What facts please point them out? You said meal timming is a myth, I just pointed out there is an expert in the field and 52 world class athletes that would disagree with you.

Acg67

Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

There's no logic whatsoever to your argument. I can google Dr. Lustig yet we know for a fact that he spreads misinformation. So your point is moot.

There is no logic to your argument! Who are you and why should anyone listen to your advice instead of a Dr. who is an expert in numerious fields and is the NY. Jets Nutritionist. Why would it be better for me to listen to an anonymous poster such as yourself on the internet instead of someone him?

How many supplements did the players consume in their meal plans?

Ripken818836701

Google his name than google yours! He didnt write the article and i'm sure he didnt get paid for it. Just provided the author with the meal schedule for his players and other nutrition info. But I guess maybe the Jets should hire you instead, Im sure LT. Mark Sanchez and Darrell Revis would listen to you.

There's no logic whatsoever to your argument. I can google Dr. Lustig yet we know for a fact that he spreads misinformation. So your point is moot.

There is no logic to your argument! Who are you and why should anyone listen to your advice instead of a Dr. who is an expert in numerious fields and is the NY. Jets Nutritionist. Why would it be better for me to listen to an anonymous poster such as yourself on the internet instead of someone him?

How many supplements did the players consume in their meal plans?

Other than sports drinks to replace electrolytes and BCAA's to help prevent cortisol levels from increasing too much there wasnt any other supplements mentioned.

Ripken818836701

This whole thing is pointless for your average weightlifter. There is some merit to pre- and post-workout nutrition but not the immediacy of it. No one here needs any of this unless, maybe, they train multiple times a day.

Now I apologize but Im gonna have to go with the opinion of an actual Dr. that is also an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training.

It's unfortunate you said this because this is simply a fallacious line of thinking. To say that truth is connected to one's paper credentials is silly. Lustig used an absurd, ****ty study to support his point that sugar is toxic yet we clearly know his conclusion is stupid because of how he came to it. Just because you're a "Dr." doesn't mean anything. You can be just as stupid as someone who isn't one and make similarly erroneous conclusions.

And by the way, in charge of the diets of each and every player on the NY. Jets (some of the best athletes in the world and worth millions of dollars) than your opinion. But like I said I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

Who gives a ****? Seriously? He is going to get excellent results because he works with elite athletes. You're not an elite athlete. You don't need to eat like them. They need far more complex eating habits because they train multiple times a day.

Never said I was an elite athlete, or that the avg. joe needs to time their meals. Just pointing out that meal timming isnt a ""myth"

AeolianHarp

There is no logic to your argument! Who are you and why should anyone listen to your advice instead of a Dr. who is an expert in numerious fields and is the NY. Jets Nutritionist. Why would it be better for me to listen to an anonymous poster such as yourself on the internet instead of him?

Why should someone listen to me over a Dr.? I don't know, maybe because I have current scientific literature supporting my position and not my paper credentials?Anyways, the flaw in your logic is that because he's educated then it means he's automatically correct. You haven't done any critical thinking for yourself. You're taking something at face value because he provides advice for an NFL team.

Also, my argument is logical. It would be illogical to base it on faith likes yours and not critical thinking. Use your head. There are many other "Drs" and other intelligent, educated individuals who would disagree with his protocol. This doesn't mean they are right either just because of their education. Rather, they tend to be right because of the evidence provided. Herp-a-derp.

tigersword

This whole thing is pointless for your average weightlifter. There is some merit to pre- and post-workout nutrition but not the immediacy of it. No one here needs any of this unless, maybe, they train multiple times a day.

Now I apologize but Im gonna have to go with the opinion of an actual Dr. that is also an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training.

It's unfortunate you said this because this is simply a fallacious line of thinking. To say that truth is connected to one's paper credentials is silly. Lustig used an absurd, ****ty study to support his point that sugar is toxic yet we clearly know his conclusion is stupid because of how he came to it. Just because you're a "Dr." doesn't mean anything. You can be just as stupid as someone who isn't one and make similarly erroneous conclusions.

And by the way, in charge of the diets of each and every player on the NY. Jets (some of the best athletes in the world and worth millions of dollars) than your opinion. But like I said I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

Who gives a ****? Seriously? He is going to get excellent results because he works with elite athletes. You're not an elite athlete. You don't need to eat like them. They need far more complex eating habits because they train multiple times a day.

Never said I was an elite athlete, or that the avg. joe needs to time their meals. Just pointing out that meal timming isnt a ""myth"

One doctor, quoted in an article, does not refute the majority of scientific studies that say meal timing is a myth.

Ripken818836701

There is no logic to your argument! Who are you and why should anyone listen to your advice instead of a Dr. who is an expert in numerious fields and is the NY. Jets Nutritionist. Why would it be better for me to listen to an anonymous poster such as yourself on the internet instead of him?

Why should someone listen to me over a Dr.? I don't know, maybe because I have current scientific literature supporting my position and not my paper credentials?Anyways, the flaw in your logic is that because he's educated then it means he's automatically correct. You haven't done any critical thinking for yourself. You're taking something at face value because he provides advice for an NFL team.

Also, my argument is logical. It would be illogical to base it on faith likes yours and not critical thinking. Use your head. There are many other "Drs" and other intelligent, educated individuals who would disagree with his protocol. This doesn't mean they are right either just because of their education. Rather, they tend to be right because of the evidence provided. Herp-a-derp.

What is your name and what is your profession and I will google you to decide who I should listen too.
You do understand that his players and the players from every other team in the NFL. are trained by the top trainers in the world and have the best nutrionist's providing their meal plans that are very similar to the Jets right? If this Dr. didnt know his stuff his players wouldnt follow his advice and he would have been out on the street in no time. For me to follow you without knowing your credentials would be illogical.

Ripken818836701

This whole thing is pointless for your average weightlifter. There is some merit to pre- and post-workout nutrition but not the immediacy of it. No one here needs any of this unless, maybe, they train multiple times a day.

Now I apologize but Im gonna have to go with the opinion of an actual Dr. that is also an expert in metabolic nutrition and a leading authority in exercise & nutrition, nutritional medicine, and training.

It's unfortunate you said this because this is simply a fallacious line of thinking. To say that truth is connected to one's paper credentials is silly. Lustig used an absurd, ****ty study to support his point that sugar is toxic yet we clearly know his conclusion is stupid because of how he came to it. Just because you're a "Dr." doesn't mean anything. You can be just as stupid as someone who isn't one and make similarly erroneous conclusions.

And by the way, in charge of the diets of each and every player on the NY. Jets (some of the best athletes in the world and worth millions of dollars) than your opinion. But like I said I dont have the luxury to time my meals.

Who gives a ****? Seriously? He is going to get excellent results because he works with elite athletes. You're not an elite athlete. You don't need to eat like them. They need far more complex eating habits because they train multiple times a day.

Never said I was an elite athlete, or that the avg. joe needs to time their meals. Just pointing out that meal timming isnt a ""myth"

One doctor, quoted in an article, does not refute the majority of scientific studies that say meal timing is a myth.

Please post these studies. And its not just Jets, its every team in the NFL.