Please explain to me

UsedToBeHusky

How exactly the transgender thought process differs from body dysmorphia?

I'm actually looking for a respectful, intelligent, and rational discussion here. Please play nice! :flowerforyou:

PapaverSomniferum

This is a very good question.

UsedToBeHusky

Well you know, occassionally, I say something smart...

but seriously, no thoughts or opinions?

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym

I don't think it is any different. Someone thinks they are or they feel they are or look a certain way than they outwardly look. Same difference, I think.

PapaverSomniferum

I'm actually going to do some research and have some conversations with people. I hang out with some members of the "queer" community, and I have BDD. Now I'm curious....

UsedToBeHusky

But we expect people with body dysmorphia to get counseling to correct their line of thinking and tell them that they are wrong for thinking that way. However, if someone expresses a similar sentiment to someone who is transgender, then they are bashed and deemed hateful.

missfancy1980

transgender do not see themselves generally as the opposite sex, they feel they were born into the wrong body. They are well aware of the reality of their gender.

With body dysmorphia on the other hand, people often truly see themselves the way they feel they are. Body dysmorphia is a condition which can and does benefit from counselling and treatment. Transgender is not something that can be "cured", and it IS hateful when derogatory comments or forceful approaches are used.

I don't think the two issues can be compared in any way to be honest x

taso42

Just a shot in the dark here.... I think with a typical body dysmorphia, the person is never satisfied. The anorexic will always seem too fat to themselves. The bigorexic will always seem too small. Whereas with a transgender, they finally feel normal. Again, I'm just throwing out my random 2 cents. I won't pretend to really understand what's going on in the heads of transgender people or people suffering from dysmorphia disorders.

PapaverSomniferum

My hypothesis is that they are generally completely different outlooks, but that there may be crossovers.

For instance, it would be BDD if a transgendered person absolutely loathes and hates their secondary sexual characteristics that do not coincide with their self-image

but I don't think it would be BDD without extreme body hatred. The one transgendered friend I have does not hate his body at all.

UsedToBeHusky

transgender do not see themselves generally as the opposite sex, they feel they were born into the wrong body. They are well aware of the reality of their gender. With body dis-morphia on the other hand, people often truly see themselves the way they feel they are. I don't think the two issues can be compared in any way to be honest x

I suppose I can see your point there, but at the same time, isn't it just is easy to say that the individual does not feel comfortable in their own skin. The individual does not accept themselves as appropriate the way that they were born.

SueGremlin

A person with BDD does not see themselves as they actually are. Their view of themselves is skewed. A transgendered person knows what they are physically but that doesn't match up with what they are emotionally. Their view of themselves is not skewed, but they are not happy with what they are on the outside.
That's about as simply as I can put it.

LuckyLeprechaun

But we expect people with body dysmorphia to get counseling to correct their line of thinking and tell them that they are wrong for thinking that way. However, if someone expresses a similar sentiment to someone who is transgender, then they are bashed and deemed hateful.

:flowerforyou:

UsedToBeHusky

My hypothesis is that they are generally completely different outlooks, but that there may be crossovers.

For instance, it would be BDD if a transgendered person absolutely loathes and hates their secondary sexual characteristics that do not coincide with their self-image

but I don't think it would be BDD without extreme body hatred. The one transgendered friend I have does not hate his body at all.

Yes, but many transgender continue with their own feelings of self-loathing years after completing their transition.

missfancy1980

I suppose I can see your point there, but at the same time, isn't it just is easy to say that the individual does not feel comfortable in their own skin. The individual does not accept themselves as appropriate the way that they were born.

Yes you can say that, but the transgender is not IN the right skin as it were. Rather than trying to change what they are, they are trying to get back to what they should be. I have a number of transgender friends, and used to date a lady who is now a man, so i'm not speaking purely from my own perspective here.

Yes there are a number of individuals who perhaps feel that they are not in the right body, but during the course of intense counselling over a long period of time, they come to realize that in fact there are other issues at play and they are not in fact transgender. Those who go through with the transition however, and all the complex emotional and physical, not to mention social, changes that go with it, are 100% sure of who they are inside x

ilookthetype

I can't even...

Body dysmorphia is seeing something that isn't there, seeing fat when there isn't fat, seeing skinnny where there is fat, it is an incorrect communication between eyes and brain. Its truly not seeing what is right in front of you.

Transgenderism is knowing in your mind that you are a different gender than your sex. It's seeing your penis and pecks and knowing that those are not the body parts you identify with, it's seeing breasts and a vagina and identifying as male. It's not seeing something that isn't there, it's seeing what is there and not identifying with it.

Does that make sense?

GasMasterFlash

I would imagine that it is as unique a process as the folks that are involved.

DietingMommy08

Transgender people ofter deal with BDD but I see it as 2 completely different aspects.

Trangender is about gender identity.

BDD is when you look at yourself and you actually SEE something about yourself that isnt actually there.

Transgender actually are familiar with the fact that they are in a female or male body and they recognize that they are born into the wrong body as where BDD dont see who they really are at all.

juliecat1

My hypothesis is that they are generally completely different outlooks, but that there may be crossovers.

For instance, it would be BDD if a transgendered person absolutely loathes and hates their secondary sexual characteristics that do not coincide with their self-image

but I don't think it would be BDD without extreme body hatred. The one transgendered friend I have does not hate his body at all.

Yes, but many transgender continue with their own feelings of self-loathing years after completing their transition.

this isnt always true. But constant daily hatred and judging certainly dont help them ever feel "right" dontcha think

Imagine for a minute if you woke up tomorrow in mans body. your mind still feels female. you still prefer socially deemed "female" things like dresses and shoes. you still want to do female things. You still want to be with men. how do you think you would feel. Thats a transgendered persons life every day. do you think you can counsel that away? No way.

PapaverSomniferum

My hypothesis is that they are generally completely different outlooks, but that there may be crossovers.

For instance, it would be BDD if a transgendered person absolutely loathes and hates their secondary sexual characteristics that do not coincide with their self-image

but I don't think it would be BDD without extreme body hatred. The one transgendered friend I have does not hate his body at all.

Yes, but many transgender continue with their own feelings of self-loathing years after completing their transition.

Not every transgendered person tran-sitions.

My one friend has always been a boy. He was a boy growing up. His parents accepted him as such, since he had a clear preference for "boy" things. He's a man now. He'll never get surgery because he's comfortable the way he is.

Being transgendered can come with personal issues. There CAN be a need for surgery to change physical sex and/or sexual characteristics. There CAN be self-acceptance issues. I've read about such on the internet.

But my single experience with a transgendered person isn't like that. So self-loathing isn't the rule of being transgendered.

jetscreaminagain

Might I suggest a book? It is an awfully complex subject which would be difficult to explain here without a tl:dr. And besides, I only understand a small smidgen and do so intellectually. I cannot speak for the experience of transgender individuals. I just know that it is a difficult experience that I cannot fathom as I've never had dissonance between who my head says I am and who my body says I am and who the rest of the world says I am. The few times I've experienced a cognitive dissonance were bad enough, though thankfully transitory.

The book is "Whipping Girl" there's a subtitle about how it relates the transsexual women's experiences to misogyny, which we certainly saw enough of on the previous thread. The author is Julia Serrano. I happen to be in the midst of reading it for the second time. It is full of difficult concepts and paradigm shifts. I'll need to read it a few more times to really get it.

I will say, if someone presents as female, lives as female, and respectfully asks to be referred to as female, it is rude to do otherwise. It is also offensive to make reference to strangers' private parts and surgery as a pre-requisite for simple, common courtesy.

missfancy1980

I was going to quote a couple of things from above but there are so many good answers popping up which i agree with i don't need to :flowerforyou:

GasMasterFlash

I will say, if someone presents as female, lives as female, and respectfully asks to be referred to as female, it is rude to do otherwise. It is also offensive to make reference to strangers' private parts and surgery as a pre-requisite for simple, common courtesy.

Agreed. What would one hope to gain my not extending this courtesy? Oh, right... drama in the forums.

tig_ol_bitties

I can't even...

Body dysmorphia is seeing something that isn't there, seeing fat when there isn't fat, seeing skinnny where there is fat, it is an incorrect communication between eyes and brain. Its truly not seeing what is right in front of you.

Transgenderism is knowing in your mind that you are a different gender than your sex. It's seeing your penis and pecks and knowing that those are not the body parts you identify with, it's seeing breasts and a vagina and identifying as male. It's not seeing something that isn't there, it's seeing what is there and not identifying with it.

Does that make sense?

This. Exactly. The two are not even considered the same thing any more in medical research and journals for this exact reason.

UsedToBeHusky

I'm certainly not a scientist, but I have studied psychology, and I do know that different types of disordered thinking takes on a very similar appearance in the brain physiologically. It would be interesting to know the similarities and differences that these different types of thinking can take in the brain. I'm not trying to say that transgenderism can be cured, but if we do not consider it disorder thinking, then what exactly is it.

Just curiosity really.

maab_connor

I can't even...

Body dysmorphia is seeing something that isn't there, seeing fat when there isn't fat, seeing skinnny where there is fat, it is an incorrect communication between eyes and brain. Its truly not seeing what is right in front of you.

Transgenderism is knowing in your mind that you are a different gender than your sex. It's seeing your penis and pecks and knowing that those are not the body parts you identify with, it's seeing breasts and a vagina and identifying as male. It's not seeing something that isn't there, it's seeing what is there and not identifying with it.

Does that make sense?

tig_ol_bitties

I'm not trying to say that transgenderism can be cured, but if we do not consider it disorder thinking, then what exactly is it.

Just curiosity really.

If you considered it "disordered thinking" as you say, then wouldn't identifying ANY WAY be considered disordered? What is your basis for considering something disordered? Sexual preference? Orientation? Religion? Socio-economic status? Your question makes no sense whatsoever.

infamousmk

My hypothesis is that they are generally completely different outlooks, but that there may be crossovers.

For instance, it would be BDD if a transgendered person absolutely loathes and hates their secondary sexual characteristics that do not coincide with their self-image

but I don't think it would be BDD without extreme body hatred. The one transgendered friend I have does not hate his body at all.

Yes, but many transgender continue with their own feelings of self-loathing years after completing their transition.

And many with BDD continue battling their issues their entire lives. And many people with depression never overcome it, and some people are total b!tches for their entire lives..... an exception doesn't make a rule.

UsedToBeHusky

I will say, if someone presents as female, lives as female, and respectfully asks to be referred to as female, it is rude to do otherwise. It is also offensive to make reference to strangers' private parts and surgery as a pre-requisite for simple, common courtesy.

Agreed. What would one hope to gain my not extending this courtesy? Oh, right... drama in the forums.

Oh, I am all about respecting one's right to make choices for their own life and body so long as it doesn't harm others. I just posted this thread to get some different perspectives and to have some intelligent discussion on the issue. Thanks everyone.

ilookthetype

I'm certainly not a scientist, but I have studied psychology, and I do know that different types of disordered thinking takes on a very similar appearance in the brain physiologically. It would be interesting to know the similarities and differences that these different types of thinking can take in the brain. I'm not trying to say that transgenderism can be cured, but if we do not consider it disorder thinking, then what exactly is it.

Just curiosity really.

It's being born into the wrong body. I have a really hard time believing that you are truly being inquisitive, where did you study psychology? Do you have a degree or just take a few classes, because I would be surprised if you has a psych degree and hadn't studied the differences.

Also, transgenderism isn't a disease, it doesn't need to be cured. It's not a disorder, it doesn't need to be fixed. It's a person who was born into the wrong body, or who simply doesn't identify with their parts. Most of the trans(genders/sexual) people I know who have had the surgery love the changes body, those who they never transitioned because they were comfortable in their body, they might pack or bind, but they are comfortable with their body as is. A few have told me that as teens they hated their body, but who doesn't? They may not have identified with their genitalia but they didn't see it and think it was something else.

UsedToBeHusky

So self-loathing isn't the rule of being transgendered.

Oh, I wasn't saying that it was the rule, but I'm concerned for those that do. The decision to transition is a big one, and it shouldn't be entered into unless the individual is completely certain that it is what they want.

tig_ol_bitties

And for the record, if this was REALLY something you were interested in, and not just interested in starting an internet fire by degrading an entire group a people, then there are PLENTY of groups you can go to within each and every community to gain insight and wisdom into this from people actually living it.