Bulk and Cut.. Or Cut and Bulk?

danielpinkney

Just throwing this out to you guys...

I've lost over four stone since last October and have actually gone below my goal weight of 180lb (I'm 173lb at the moment). However I'm wanting to lose fat to bring out the abs/increase definition but at the same time I don't really want to lose much more weight. At 5' 10" and 173lb I already think I'm too light - most fitness models of my height seem to be around the 13st+ mark with fully defined abs/low bodyfat. Having said that I feel I look quite big (especially in the arms/upper body) in comparison to some of these guys which is a little weird considering I'm almost a stone lighter with visibly greater body fat percentage.

So the question is, if you were in my shoes, would you bulk and then cut or cut and then bulk?

I feel the latter but always good to get other viewpoints. My aim is not to get big but be lean and quite muscular - a typical fitness model physique rather than a body builder.

Most recent pic below for reference...

PHLLLY

I'm working on the same. I'm cutting and bulking. I have definition with my abs but I still want to be bigger. But there's gotta be a way to do both at the same time. Getting abs is mainly what you eat. We all have abs under belly fat. I'm trying to lower my body fat so that way I can bulk once I've gotten my "8" pack. Eating only enough to "grow"

Why I think I should have done a Bulk then Cut is this. Once you bulk and get to the size you want, you can still have the strength to lift the same weight you are satisfied with when you are at your peak bulking phase. Then you can work on cutting your deficit to get leaner. Excess salt, sugar (processed and non) leads to bloating. Lower those amounts by at least 1/2 and experiment with that. I noticed on days that I don't have a lot of salt I can almost see the 8. Also you'll be "maintaining" your bulk by lifting the same amount of weight, but since you will be lowering your food intake the food will be absorbed into your muscles and you can still burn fat and preserve muscle.

It's like when athletes gain and eat a bunch during the off season so that when it comes to the beginning of the season they are lifting to preserve and maintain their growth they got over the summer.

What are your thoughts?

danielpinkney

I think you are bang on the money. Most fitness pros advocate bulking first and then cutting, and from your reasonings I can see why. They also say that bulking and cutting cannot really be done at once because they are both contradictory approaches - one involves a calorie deficit, the other a surplus. The rare exceptions are this who have not really exercised in the past and have quite a high body fat to begin with. 'I'm trying to lower my body fat so that way I can bulk once I've gotten my "8" pack. Eating only enough to "grow" <<< That's my new plan (although I haven't got the six pack as yet). Although I was attempting to bulk up first by upping my calories, I was still too conscious of not going too far and undoing all my good work... So it was a half assed approach. So thinking if I aim to achieve my initial goal of stripping the fat until the abs pop I can then bulk slowly and surely. Least this way I can fully commit myself rather than do something half-heartedly. I've also been getting comments on size of arms/upper body so at least there is some bulk to work with despite being a fairly low weight.

TJtastic

You look perfectly fine to me!! :blushing:

thatsnumberwang

Normally I'd say bulk then cut, but I think it might depend on how long of a cycle you're going to do. It is getting close to summer time, and it would suck to be bulking when you really want to be walking around with your shirt off all the time. :grumble: It also sounds like you're pretty set on seeing the full results of your previous work. If all else was equal, I'd say bulk then cut (because that's what the fitness pros say), but I would think about how you want to look your "cuttest" and go from there.

JNick77

You look perfectly fine to me!! :blushing:

You had a pretty clean bulk.

But yes, definitely bulk then cut. If you cut and then bulk, you'll have to cut again.

sevenminaya

I'm trying the same thing as you guys, well in my case I was skinny 147 lbs and 5'11 now I'm 173 and 6'0 I'm trying to get to 190 (muscle) and lower my body fat % to 10% right now it is (14%). I want those abs to come out, which I'm beginning to see. But I'm focusing on gaining weight (bulking) first thru a 6 meals a day diet and eating around 3500 cals a day. Lifting as heavy as I can 5 times per week.

I suggest bulking first and cutting after, as the other fella said, it's way easier.

Btw, any suggestions/tips to bulk up faster are welcome.

JNick77

I'm trying the same thing as you guys, well in my case I was skinny 147 lbs and 5'11 now I'm 173 and 6'0 I'm trying to get to 190 (muscle) and lower my body fat % to 10% right now it is (14%). I want those abs to come out, which I'm beginning to see. But I'm focusing on gaining weight (bulking) first thru a 6 meals a day diet and eating around 3500 cals a day. Lifting as heavy as I can 5 times per week.

I suggest bulking first and cutting after, as the other fella said, it's way easier.

Btw, any suggestions/tips to bulk up faster are welcome.

Google, "Massive Eating" by John Berardi. I believe it's a two-part article.

FlyeredUp

I would bulk first then cut. Then again, we are going into summer so you might want to cut, then bulk in the fall and cut again for next summer. (I'm actually bulking right now but wish I was cutting) I cut down to 204 lb's ( I was 213 lbs in my profile pic) and now doing a bulk. I'm 6"1 and my goal is to be 220 lbs and under 10% BF.

cimonroe

gaining muscle is more difficult to do than lose body fat. Bulk first then cut. However, when it comes to really getting control of your body composition, no matter how hard you work out, it won't matter unless you follow a stricter diet...

joejccva71

OP based on your pics, I'd say you're about 13% bf. I would cut a little more and try to get to 10% and THEN bulk back up to 15%. Then, cut again. This is so you don't regain too much bf. Once you put on more mass, it will be easier to cut back down again.

Lyle McDonald also agrees with this. (Just saying)

You look good by the way. (no homo)

Shock_Wave

<--Currently roughly 6'1 230ish lbs at 12-13%bf. Been bulking and cutting for years. Unless you are in a bb contest and need to cut usually most folks cut before the summer and recomp or keep cutting. Bulk in the winter adding 10-15% more calories to their maintenance, some folks need more but usually that will get you bulking with out putting on to much fat. Try to get about 2 lbs a month of lean muscle while keeping the fat at about the same (use calipers every week to gauge this). The right diet and routine will get you there but that is another story.

Some people bulk until 15-18% bf or if you have a 6 pack until you start losing the upper 4 abs. How much is up to you but just remember the more you bulk the longer it is to strip of the fat as well in your cut. Cheers for your success!

jfan175

I wouln't care what others weigh. I'll bet you have more muscle than most of them by the way you look in those pics.. You've done a fine job with the fat loss so far, why not finish the job? You're not far away from seeing those abs. You can bulk over the winter, and then do a slow cut earlier in the spring next year.

ericgAU

I'm 5'11" 167lbs 17% BF. Like the OP, Í'm trying to get down to 10% BF or low enough to expose my abdominals also. Just wondering if I should be starting my bulk up from a lower BF or if it looks ok?

Also, my intake is around 3000 cals a day. Is this enough for a lean bulk?

danielpinkney

OP based on your pics, I'd say you're about 13% bf. I would cut a little more and try to get to 10% and THEN bulk back up to 15%. Then, cut again. This is so you don't regain too much bf. Once you put on more mass, it will be easier to cut back down again.

Lyle McDonald also agrees with this. (Just saying)

You look good by the way. (no homo)

Haha. Yeah, from using the calculator at http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/ my fat percentage comes in at 12-13% so good guess

First of all, thanks for all the feedbacks and comments, much appreciated! I think ^^^ is the way I'm going to go.

Although in principle I agree I should bulk first and then cut, psychologically I don't think bulking up now when I haven't achieved my original fat loss target (inc abs/definition) will stand me in best stead - and I'd rather be fully committed whichever way I decided to go. Like others say, most tend to bulk in winter, cut in summer. So the above tactic will fit in well with that plan.

sevenminaya

I'm trying the same thing as you guys, well in my case I was skinny 147 lbs and 5'11 now I'm 173 and 6'0 I'm trying to get to 190 (muscle) and lower my body fat % to 10% right now it is (14%). I want those abs to come out, which I'm beginning to see. But I'm focusing on gaining weight (bulking) first thru a 6 meals a day diet and eating around 3500 cals a day. Lifting as heavy as I can 5 times per week.

I suggest bulking first and cutting after, as the other fella said, it's way easier.

Btw, any suggestions/tips to bulk up faster are welcome.

Google, "Massive Eating" by John Berardi. I believe it's a two-part article.

Thanks man! Great articles, this is gonna help me a lot!!

Elizabeth_C34

I just wanted to say that you look awesome. Congrats on your progress and good luck.

joejccva71

OP based on your pics, I'd say you're about 13% bf. I would cut a little more and try to get to 10% and THEN bulk back up to 15%. Then, cut again. This is so you don't regain too much bf. Once you put on more mass, it will be easier to cut back down again.

Lyle McDonald also agrees with this. (Just saying)

You look good by the way. (no homo)

Haha. Yeah, from using the calculator at http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/ my fat percentage comes in at 12-13% so good guess

First of all, thanks for all the feedbacks and comments, much appreciated! I think ^^^ is the way I'm going to go.

Although in principle I agree I should bulk first and then cut, psychologically I don't think bulking up now when I haven't achieved my original fat loss target (inc abs/definition) will stand me in best stead - and I'd rather be fully committed whichever way I decided to go. Like others say, most tend to bulk in winter, cut in summer. So the above tactic will fit in well with that plan.

Mind if I ask what your goals are? Are you just trying to be healthy and look good or are you trying to compete one day?

Just curious.

Yanicka1

Bump for info

danielpinkney

OP based on your pics, I'd say you're about 13% bf. I would cut a little more and try to get to 10% and THEN bulk back up to 15%. Then, cut again. This is so you don't regain too much bf. Once you put on more mass, it will be easier to cut back down again.

Lyle McDonald also agrees with this. (Just saying)

You look good by the way. (no homo)

Haha. Yeah, from using the calculator at http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/ my fat percentage comes in at 12-13% so good guess

First of all, thanks for all the feedbacks and comments, much appreciated! I think ^^^ is the way I'm going to go.

Although in principle I agree I should bulk first and then cut, psychologically I don't think bulking up now when I haven't achieved my original fat loss target (inc abs/definition) will stand me in best stead - and I'd rather be fully committed whichever way I decided to go. Like others say, most tend to bulk in winter, cut in summer. So the above tactic will fit in well with that plan.

Mind if I ask what your goals are? Are you just trying to be healthy and look good or are you trying to compete one day?

Just curious.

Primary aim is to be healthy, secondary aim is to look good. Got absolutely no intention of competing but I am studying to become a fully qualified Personal Trainer and Nutritional advisor. I'm of the opinion that if you are going to be a PT you should at least look the part and practice what you preach.